194 réponses à ce sujet

[InfamousResult]

BabyfaceAssassin wrote...

I'm pretty sure that the people on my list DO reflect the masses since people are dropping this game pretty fast (on Xbox according to Major Nelson).
...and YES Bioware does have data that shows how many people play ME and how often. It can't be too hard to do pulls after every "Tuesday's Nerfing updates" to see if the number of games played increased or dropped.
Finally, feel free to play Gold without using any skill points since you seem to be such a defender of "Nerfing all things"

Exactly what nerfs did your friends leave over?

I'm honestly curious what straw broke their camel backs.

[techslave33]

there is no way to balance this issue in a way that would make everyone happy, let's face it. all of you arguing for or against, step outside your 3 foot bubbles and realize it.

the only way to balance your game is to leave a lobby if you see someone readying up with a krysae if you dont want to play with people using them, or if youre the leader, vote to kick them if they are not mic'ed and cannot/will not heed you.

any other argument is an impingement on someone's enjoyment of this game, and nobody has any right to tell anyone how to play the game. obviously, BW tested and saw that the gun was good to go. telling them they're wrong about that is arrogant hubris.you have NO RIGHT, in a co-op game, to alter anyone else's game experience. see to your own and leave the lobby if you dont like how it is going. there are thousands of other rooms that will take you. to you all, i say NO to your oppression by your "enlightened" thoughts on how i should be playing.

yes, i have the gun (level2), yes i use it, but it gives me the confidence to play silver, when i am a bronzer. and i do well with it. take that away, ill be back in bronze to stay.

[JiceDuresh]

BabyfaceAssassin wrote...
 "Tuesday's Nerfing updates"

See

JiceDuresh wrote...

So crunching some numbers from the 'Changes thread' stickied at the top of this forum. There were Approximately 119 buffs to weapons and powers since the start of multiplayer. This accounts for some double buffs such as eagle going up twice.

There were approximately 34 Nerfs. This includes fixes for things that were not intended such as Prime's having heads and the harriers level X weight. Also in this I've included Enemy buffs since thoes are technically nerfs to you.

So with that kind of ratio it's about 3.42 buffs per 1 nerf.

There have been more buffs in this game than nerfs by quite a large margin. Most nerfs being just fixes that were never intended. If your friends left because of nerfs, their resoning is flawed.

[Permafrost27]

FistOfSyn wrote...

Why is that everyone says it's op? I tried to use it on my Salarian infiltrator but I felt that it was weak.. used to shoot at brutes while cloaked with it and sometimes it used to do like only one or two bars of damage to it.. Feels like it sucks against armor

According to your manifest, you have it at rank 4 and have no +sniper rifle permanent gear mods- so in your case, it's not amazing, especially against a brute (who has armor and extra frontal damage reduction when the arm is up).

I point this out not in some twisted elitist judgemental manner, but to emphasis the valid points nerfers are making.

The gun becomes significantly more problematic as you stack +dmg modifiers (rank X, ammo, passive class evolutions etc)

Segue

What's with the insistence that everyone who has a problem with this gun is somehow a diehard lifelong hardcore nerfer on a crusade to ruin the fun of all 'casuals'?

If you look at my post history prior to Rebellion DLC I never once asked for a nerf of anything, nor have I been posting in threads since then requesting GI or tac cloak nerfs. Maybe they are imbalanced, maybe not- it's not to a degree where it impacts my personal enjoyment of the game (aka challenge level of gold).

I certainly can't claim that every other 'nerfer' feels exactly as I do, but lumping us in together is lazy and makes your posts as worthless as the "elitist pros" who come in here and mock casuals for being ineffective.

[InfamousResult]

techslave33 wrote...

obviously, BW tested and saw that the gun was good to go. telling them they're wrong about that is arrogant hubris.you have NO RIGHT, in a co-op game, to alter anyone else's game experience. see to your own and leave the lobby if you dont like how it is going. there are thousands of other rooms that will take you. to you all, i say NO to your oppression by your "enlightened" thoughts on how i should be playing.

First:

Bioware are not babies who need us to be quiet and keep our mouths shut when they're dragging a sheet of toilet paper behind them. They're getting paid for this. They know they're going to have to make fixes. They've been making fixes- Nerfs and Buffs, both- because they know the game isn't perfect. They released the game with bugs, and they released the game with unbalanced weapons. We are perfectly fine in expressing our opinions on what is, and isn't, Over/Underpowered.. That's what a forum is for. Discussion and opinions.

Second:

Co-op game or NOT, there is such a thing as Game Balance. That's always been a part of Multiplayer games- both PvP and Co-Op. It's basic game design: If weapons or classes aren't balanced, what's the point in introducing new ones, unless you gradually make them more and more powerful? And at that point, why do we have difficulty levels, since everybody will be able to just breeze through Gold with the most powerful weapons? The developers will have created all those guns, all those classes, for no reason, because everybody will just be using the most powerful ones to finish the game faster.

Don't tell me that I'm full of arrogant hubris for suggesting game balance, when you have the arrogant hubris of telling me what I shouldn't post.

[IFR Deathcrush]

So what you're saying Permafrost, is that by combining a lvl X, ammo mods and sniper gear all at level 5, then it is overpowered? Well yes that makes sense. I would be willing to bet the majority of players don't have all of the gear and weapons maxed, therefore for most people it isn't op.

Ah well, in the end it'll be fixed and everyone will be back to using geth infiltrators with a claymore.

[techslave33]

InfamousResult wrote...

techslave33 wrote...

obviously, BW tested and saw that the gun was good to go. telling them they're wrong about that is arrogant hubris.you have NO RIGHT, in a co-op game, to alter anyone else's game experience. see to your own and leave the lobby if you dont like how it is going. there are thousands of other rooms that will take you. to you all, i say NO to your oppression by your "enlightened" thoughts on how i should be playing.

First:

Bioware are not babies who need us to be quiet and keep our mouths shut when they're dragging a sheet of toilet paper behind them. They're getting paid for this. They know they're going to have to make fixes. They've been making fixes- Nerfs and Buffs, both- because they know the game isn't perfect. They released the game with bugs, and they released the game with unbalanced weapons. We are perfectly fine in expressing our opinions on what is, and isn't, Over/Underpowered.. That's what a forum is for. Discussion and opinions.

Second:

Co-op game or NOT, there is such a thing as Game Balance. That's always been a part of Multiplayer games- both PvP and Co-Op. It's basic game design: If weapons or classes aren't balanced, what's the point in introducing new ones, unless you gradually make them more and more powerful? And at that point, why do we have difficulty levels, since everybody will be able to just breeze through Gold with the most powerful weapons? The developers will have created all those guns, all those classes, for no reason, because everybody will just be using the most powerful ones to finish the game faster.

Don't tell me that I'm full of arrogant hubris for suggesting game balance, when you have the arrogant hubris of telling me what I shouldn't post.

you miss the song, by paying entirely too much attention to the music. dont worry, i dont think hubris is your issue, sir.

i am not telling you you shouldnt post. i am telling you to exercise your right to leave a room you dont like. all else is confusing you. i apologize.

[InfamousResult]

techslave33 wrote...

you miss the song, by paying entirely too much attention to the music. dont worry, i dont think hubris is your issue, sir.

i am not telling you you shouldnt post. i am telling you to exercise your right to leave a room you dont like. all else is confusing you. i apologize.

And I generally do leave rooms I don't like.

I leave rooms. I watch loading screens. I leave rooms. I watch loading screens. I get tired of leaving rooms- so I make a room. So now instead of leaving, I'm kicking people. I'm kicking people, and they send me angry messages. I'm kicking people, and they're coming here to complain that I kicked them for a dumb reason.

All while the game remains unbalanced, which was the whole reason for addressing the issue in the first place.

I mean no offense- but if somebody's "fun" means leaving an unbalanced weapon in the game, and their "fun" would be ruined because they couldn't beat the highest difficulty with it any more.. Maybe they don't belong in the highest difficulty? Maybe they belong in Silver, or Bronze? Either way, I don't believe it should just be left alone, because "well it's just FUN to earn the most credits".

[Permafrost27]

IFR Deathcrush wrote...

So what you're saying Permafrost, is that by combining a lvl X, ammo mods and sniper gear all at level 5, then it is overpowered? Well yes that makes sense. I would be willing to bet the majority of players don't have all of the gear and weapons maxed, therefore for most people it isn't op.

Ah well, in the end it'll be fixed and everyone will be back to using geth infiltrators with a claymore.

That's not what I'm saying at all, but I appreciate your use of putting words in my mouth for the sake of your argument.

For our collective enjoyment I will be more specific.

A Krysae X is OP, due to a combination of factors, but primarily that it's virtually impossible to miss your target. A Krysae X becomes increasingly more OP with the inclusion of any of the following:

-Sniper damage mods + gear
-Armor piercing, Incendiary, and to a lesser extent disruptor ammo
-Racial passive +weapon dmg talents
-and of course the dread tac cloak

alternatively, a Krysae let's say V, plus two or more of the above is also pretty ridiculous.

As for the comment regarding GI's using Claymores, I have no problem with it nor do I see much relevance. 

A GI using a Claymore (or any weapon, hell lets just say a GI) is a specific build that someone has to choose to play and they are then limited to:
eye-bleeding view / being super squishy / prox mine as a power

A Krysae can be put on any class in the game and it's instant cheeseball city. The ubiquity and ease of use is part of the problem. To be an "OP" GI you are specifically stuck with that one boring class, you can't biotic charge or stasis or do whatever's people idea of fun is (mine personally consists of never using the GI, or hunter mode on a GE, but whatever floats your boat)

The idea of some apocalyptic future where everyone is playing a GI and ruining everyone else's fun is unlikely, laughable, and strikes me as a diversion tactic.

Modifié par Permafrost27, 11 juin 2012 - 01:44 .

[Gordo Schumway]

InfamousResult wrote...

techslave33 wrote...

you miss the song, by paying entirely too much attention to the music. dont worry, i dont think hubris is your issue, sir.

i am not telling you you shouldnt post. i am telling you to exercise your right to leave a room you dont like. all else is confusing you. i apologize.

And I generally do leave rooms I don't like.

I leave rooms. I watch loading screens. I leave rooms. I watch loading screens. I get tired of leaving rooms- so I make a room. So now instead of leaving, I'm kicking people. I'm kicking people, and they send me angry messages. I'm kicking people, and they're coming here to complain that I kicked them for a dumb reason.

All while the game remains unbalanced, which was the whole reason for addressing the issue in the first place.

I mean no offense- but if somebody's "fun" means leaving an unbalanced weapon in the game, and their "fun" would be ruined because they couldn't beat the highest difficulty with it any more.. Maybe they don't belong in the highest difficulty? Maybe they belong in Silver, or Bronze? Either way, I don't believe it should just be left alone, because "well it's just FUN to earn the most credits".

So your fun trumps other players fun? Okay, now I get the nerfing argument. Thanks for clearing it up.

[Permafrost27]

"So your fun trumps other players fun? Okay, now I get the nerfing argument. Thanks for clearing it up." quote

That's a very legit point.  

The core issue, beyond the Krysae, is the divide between players who enjoy the game for challenge and balance- and those who are more laid back and just want to have fun regardless.

Hence why alot of people have suggested Platinum Difficulty (where increased enemy HP would render Krysae to truly a noob tube) OR the charming but far less likely scenario of Gold being able to exclude Krysae and potentially future cheeseball DLC weapons.

I wish I had a fix that made everyone happy, I bet Bioware does too.

We'll probably find out tuesday either way

Modifié par Permafrost27, 11 juin 2012 - 01:50 .

[InfamousResult]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

So your fun trumps other players fun? Okay, now I get the nerfing argument. Thanks for clearing it up.

Hey, look at you, picking and choosing what to read and not paying any attention at all.

[niripas]

Infam
All while the game remains unbalanced, which was the whole reason for addressing the issue in the first place.

I mean no offense- but if somebody's "fun" means leaving an unbalanced weapon in the game, and their "fun" would be ruined because they couldn't beat the highest difficulty with it any more.. Maybe they don't belong in the highest difficulty? Maybe they belong in Silver, or Bronze? Either way, I don't believe it should just be left alone, because "well it's just FUN to earn the most credits".

Can someone finally tell me what's the definition of balanced game, please? I constantly hear "this is op, that is op", but op compared to what? Is Claymore  op compared to Krysae? (Adept + Incendiary Ammo will kill brute/atlas much quicker than infiltrator with TC and krysae X)

[Gordo Schumway]

Permafrost27 wrote...

"So your fun trumps other players fun? Okay, now I get the nerfing argument. Thanks for clearing it up." quote

That's a very legit point.  

The core issue, beyond the Krysae, is the divide between players who enjoy the game for challenge and balance- and those who are more laid back and just want to have fun regardless.

Hence why alot of people have suggested Platinum Difficulty (where increased enemy HP would render Krysae to truly a noob tube) OR the charming but far less likely scenario of Gold being able to exclude Krysae and potentially future cheeseball DLC weapons.

I wish I had a fix that made everyone happy, I bet Bioware does too.

We'll probably find out tuesday either way

If your argument that the Krysae is truly overpowered, wouldn't adding a Plat difficulty just mean that that gun becomes one of the only viable guns on that difficulty? Meaning that even more players would choose it as opposed to a "weaker" gun?

As much as I would like to see a Plat difficulty (and I do think it is heading that way with the last three guns being strong and the addition of constant gear buffs--the possiblity of eight lift grenades? Now that is OP), it won't change the disagreement over that gun. As I see it, the only real solution that doesn't step on how players want to have fun in the manner that they want is to play in private groups with friends that think a similar way. That is really the only way to play now if you want to play gold since the vast majority of randoms are geth white.

[Gordo Schumway]

InfamousResult wrote...

Gordo Schumway wrote...

So your fun trumps other players fun? Okay, now I get the nerfing argument. Thanks for clearing it up.

Hey, look at you, picking and choosing what to read and not paying any attention at all.

I did read your whole post and just paraphrased it for you. Sorry you didn't understand what you wrote but that's what it boiled down to.

[Topographer]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

techslave33 wrote...

you miss the song, by paying entirely too much attention to the music. dont worry, i dont think hubris is your issue, sir.

i am not telling you you shouldnt post. i am telling you to exercise your right to leave a room you dont like. all else is confusing you. i apologize.

And I generally do leave rooms I don't like.

I leave rooms. I watch loading screens. I leave rooms. I watch loading screens. I get tired of leaving rooms- so I make a room. So now instead of leaving, I'm kicking people. I'm kicking people, and they send me angry messages. I'm kicking people, and they're coming here to complain that I kicked them for a dumb reason.

All while the game remains unbalanced, which was the whole reason for addressing the issue in the first place.

I mean no offense- but if somebody's "fun" means leaving an unbalanced weapon in the game, and their "fun" would be ruined because they couldn't beat the highest difficulty with it any more.. Maybe they don't belong in the highest difficulty? Maybe they belong in Silver, or Bronze? Either way, I don't believe it should just be left alone, because "well it's just FUN to earn the most credits".

So your fun trumps other players fun? Okay, now I get the nerfing argument. Thanks for clearing it up.

I use powerful classes pretty often and I enjoy them becasue they can allow for some comfort on Gold. But I do draw the line with exploits like the Krysae. If a weapon can make Gold as easy as bronze or silver then what is the point of even having different diffiiculties? If anyone can now magically handle Gold with ease then all of a sudden it's nothing special from the rest, which is why many don't care for farming either. It's the same idea.

Take something you are proud of being good at, anything at all, and now imagine everyone and their grandmothers can do it as well as you or better. Thats not very appealing.

[InfamousResult]

niripas wrote...

Can someone finally tell me what's the definition of balanced game, please? I constantly hear "this is op, that is op", but op compared to what? Is Claymore  op compared to Krysae? (Adept + Incendiary Ammo will kill brute/atlas much quicker than infiltrator with TC and krysae X)

I don't have a set rule for what is and isn't unbalanced. I know there are plenty of weapons in the game that are unbalanced- mostly, weapons needing buffs. But if you want my opinion on what a balanced weapon is, I've always looked at the Graal with an eye of awe. It's a weapon that isn't easy to use- isn't hard to use- and for it to be most effective, requires enough skill that you lead your targets and aim for their heads. All around, not bad, but not a monster. Doesn't make Bronze hard for good players, and doesn't make Gold easy for bad players.

[InfamousResult]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

I did read your whole post and just paraphrased it for you. Sorry you didn't understand what you wrote but that's what it boiled down to.

Wrong.

HE said fun was the only thing that mattered. MY counter-argument was "why should your fun trump my fun"? The argument can go both ways, but he's the one that brought it up.. Not me. On top of that, though, he- and you- are both ignoring the argument of Game Balance. He ignored it because he just didn't think it was important enough when compared to his own fun, and you ignored it because you're trying to be too big for your britches.

Sorry you didn't understand what I wrote. But hey. Next time, don't paraphrase.

Modifié par InfamousResult, 11 juin 2012 - 02:06 .

[MinatheBrat]

Hi all.I was away this weekend but I'm back now. 

The poll on the Krysae is still active.

Please vote and submit your opinion.

http://social.biowar...41/polls/34985/

Thanks!

Modifié par MinatheBrat, 11 juin 2012 - 02:08 .

[Gordo Schumway]

Topographer wrote...

Gordo Schumway wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

techslave33 wrote...

you miss the song, by paying entirely too much attention to the music. dont worry, i dont think hubris is your issue, sir.

i am not telling you you shouldnt post. i am telling you to exercise your right to leave a room you dont like. all else is confusing you. i apologize.

And I generally do leave rooms I don't like.

I leave rooms. I watch loading screens. I leave rooms. I watch loading screens. I get tired of leaving rooms- so I make a room. So now instead of leaving, I'm kicking people. I'm kicking people, and they send me angry messages. I'm kicking people, and they're coming here to complain that I kicked them for a dumb reason.

All while the game remains unbalanced, which was the whole reason for addressing the issue in the first place.

I mean no offense- but if somebody's "fun" means leaving an unbalanced weapon in the game, and their "fun" would be ruined because they couldn't beat the highest difficulty with it any more.. Maybe they don't belong in the highest difficulty? Maybe they belong in Silver, or Bronze? Either way, I don't believe it should just be left alone, because "well it's just FUN to earn the most credits".

So your fun trumps other players fun? Okay, now I get the nerfing argument. Thanks for clearing it up.

I use powerful classes pretty often and I enjoy them becasue they can allow for some comfort on Gold. But I do draw the line with exploits like the Krysae. If a weapon can make Gold as easy as bronze or silver then what is the point of even having different diffiiculties? If anyone can now magically handle Gold with ease then all of a sudden it's nothing special from the rest, which is why many don't care for farming either. It's the same idea.

Take something you are proud of being good at, anything at all, and now imagine everyone and their grandmothers can do it as well as you or better. Thats not very appealing.

It is appealing to people who don't devote their entire lives to it and are quite good at it. Sorry, I love the game and I think I am pretty decent at it, but I don't really take pride in my ability at it. I do it for fun, not to stroke my ego by thinking I am good at a video game.

[f03cqc]

Personally speaking, it's alot less fun when a team member is doing all the work and I'm just sitting there pretty much forced to watch because by the time my Vanguard finds a target and charges, someone else has cleared the area. It means they're playing and I'm not. That being said I don't think the Krysae needs a huge nerf. I play on Gold consistantly because I like the challenge, and I don't see the Krysae doing what alot of people are complaining about. I've run into a few people that really just mop up everything in sight with it, but there are so few of them that It doesn't really matter. They had a good game this time, I'll have one next time. I can see why some people might be scared that as time goes on this might become a little more common, so maybe a few minor nerfs to higher level Krysaes might be good idea. But honestly, I don't think the weapon needs alot of attention. Note: Before anyone flames me for being one of those credit grinders, I'm not. I don't have a Krysae. What I'm saying is from the perspective of a Krysae Sniper's teammate. I usually mess around with alternative builds, support builds, and the occasional solid build but I play to have fun, not to top the leaderboards, not to unlock all of the content in the game.

[InfamousResult]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

It is appealing to people who don't devote their entire lives to it and are quite good at it. Sorry, I love the game and I think I am pretty decent at it, but I don't really take pride in my ability at it. I do it for fun, not to stroke my ego by thinking I am good at a video game.

You're still just ignoring what I'm saying.

Stop quoting people if you're not actually replying to what they're saying.

Next time I quote you, I'm just going to say "I had a Grand Slam today, and it was delicious." No matter what you say. And that's going to be the exact equivelant of what you're doing right now.

[GodlessPaladin]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

@Godless: Wait a minute, aren't you a member of the official No Nerfducks group?

No. 

Where the heck did you get that idea?  I've even suggested some nerfs.

BabyfaceAssassin wrote... since you seem to be such a defender of "Nerfing all things"

Because I pointed out why your arguments and claims were obviously glaringly flawed that means I think that all things should be nerfed? 

Seriously, you people are nuts.  Just because I point out that you're WRONG doesn't mean I suddenly occupy some absurd extreme opposite position.  The world isn't that one-dimensional.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 11 juin 2012 - 02:33 .

[Topographer]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

It is appealing to people who don't devote their entire lives to it and are quite good at it. Sorry, I love the game and I think I am pretty decent at it, but I don't really take pride in my ability at it. I do it for fun, not to stroke my ego by thinking I am good at a video game.

And that's fine, there is plenty of fun to be had destroying things on Silver or Gold if you are pretty decent at the game. I really want to be able to use the good characters and equipment and weapons that I have spent time aquiring and still have Gold take just a little bit of thought is all. Also, I will freely admit that this is partly a pride issue. When you are good at something you like to be rewarded/acknowledged for it don't you? Is that not fair?

[Permafrost27]

Gordo Schumway wrote...

Permafrost27 wrote...

"So your fun trumps other players fun? Okay, now I get the nerfing argument. Thanks for clearing it up." quote

That's a very legit point.  

The core issue, beyond the Krysae, is the divide between players who enjoy the game for challenge and balance- and those who are more laid back and just want to have fun regardless.

Hence why alot of people have suggested Platinum Difficulty (where increased enemy HP would render Krysae to truly a noob tube) OR the charming but far less likely scenario of Gold being able to exclude Krysae and potentially future cheeseball DLC weapons.

I wish I had a fix that made everyone happy, I bet Bioware does too.

We'll probably find out tuesday either way

If your argument that the Krysae is truly overpowered, wouldn't adding a Plat difficulty just mean that that gun becomes one of the only viable guns on that difficulty? Meaning that even more players would choose it as opposed to a "weaker" gun?

As much as I would like to see a Plat difficulty (and I do think it is heading that way with the last three guns being strong and the addition of constant gear buffs--the possiblity of eight lift grenades? Now that is OP), it won't change the disagreement over that gun. As I see it, the only real solution that doesn't step on how players want to have fun in the manner that they want is to play in private groups with friends that think a similar way. That is really the only way to play now if you want to play gold since the vast majority of randoms are geth white.

Two quick points on two dif subjects

1) I think "plat difficulty" would render the Krysae completely average in the same way that Novaguard is brutally effective on bronze / silver and extremely limited in it's scope on Gold (need teammate support or cautious play, limiting destructive ability). Sometimes that 15% margin is all you need to fix things.
The Krysae can 2-3 shot all non-armored's with minimal aiming effort, and kill multiple enemies in those 2-3 shots if they are at all clustered. If it takes 4-6 shots? Different ballgame I think, but maybe I'm forecasting wrong

2) Just a heads on your gold pubs are only FWB Geth. On the xbox it's still super easy to get a cerb group and/or random map, just select them instead of unknown. Reapers are regrettably time consuming to find on gold, but a far cry from impossible. (Trying to be helpful here, not condescending)

Modifié par Permafrost27, 11 juin 2012 - 02:22 .