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#176
GodlessPaladin

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Tre.will wrote...
The statements were hypocritical in every sense of the word.  No amount of forced eloquent explanation will change that.

  Name one sense.   Here's a list of 'em for you.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy

Here's the statement in question

What I was referring to as hypocritical is your (Maverick2's) complaint that the
players using the Krysae and stealing your kills do not allow you to
play the way you want (melee). It is hypocritical to want to change the
way they want to play (with the Krysae at the level it is at) while at
the same time complaining that you can't play the way you want.


Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 11 juin 2012 - 08:58 .


#177
Gordo Schumway

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GodlessPaladin wrote...

Gordo Schumway wrote...
Godless, you don't get it, thought you did there. Sorry, I have enough students, I don't need another one that I don't get paid for. Peace. Enjoy the game.


Perhaps they didn't teach you in rhetoric how weak of an argument appeals to authority are (if you aren't outright making up your claims in that department).  Not once in this discussion have you actually addressed the core point:  That hypocrisy is about claiming to hold a belief, principle, or virtue that you don't actually hold.  You have yet to actually identify what said belief, principle, or virtue is for Maverick2.

All you've done is repeat the exact same claim over and over again.... that it's hypocritical for him to have desires that conflict with the desires of others.  It simply isn't... even if those desires are the exact same thing and even if they had the exact same methodology.  For example, "I'd like to steal all the things in the world, and I wouldn't like anyone else to steal from me" is not hypocritical.  Heck it's not even a moral statement (which would be something like "I should steal all the things in the world, but others shouldn't."  Which would be an example of the Special Pleading fallacy).

What WOULD be hypocritical would be if he maintained a pretense of having a desire that he doesn't actually have.  That is what hypocrisy means.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocritical


Maybe you should go back and read the original post. It is on page one and is pretty short. You are making way more of an issue of it than it ever was. I originally said "it seems a bit hypocritical to me." Then when he wanted clairification and I attempted to explain, you jumped in like the valorous paladin you are and defended him against something that wasn't even a direct attack on him. Read Don Quixote sometime; you might find a kindered spirit.

Modifié par Gordo Schumway, 11 juin 2012 - 09:00 .


#178
niripas

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Siliboy wrote...

Gordo Schumway wrote...

How about we just leave it for the time being. How exactly has it hurt your fun or enjoyment of the game yet?


Had a reaper gold with friends, used Krysae X on an infi, had 190k and the rest were around 60k each. They didn't say it but I'm sure they found the game boring, although they did ask in middle of the match if it was silver. And not just them, I found it very cheap and boring. This was the second time I've used the gun, first time was when rebellion just came out. Didn't have to bother properly aiming the gun.


That means that your team sucks. Reaper on Gold is the Krysae's kryptonite. Even with GI and proxy mine debuff it just sucks against ravagers and banshees. Especially when you didn't  bother to aim - it means most of the shots were hitting swarmers/husks. I'm not the elitist but I can handle solo gold. My usual team are good players, and on Reaper Gold there are always two adepts in the team (two others are usually Inf and Eng). Score is pretty even (Eng is usually lower than the rest) and when I play Inf with krysae my results are around the lower half. Switch to something with pinpoint accuracy - welcome to the upper half.

#179
GodlessPaladin

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Gordo Schumway wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Gordo Schumway wrote...
Godless, you don't get it, thought you did there. Sorry, I have enough students, I don't need another one that I don't get paid for. Peace. Enjoy the game.


Perhaps they didn't teach you in rhetoric how weak of an argument appeals to authority are (if you aren't outright making up your claims in that department).  Not once in this discussion have you actually addressed the core point:  That hypocrisy is about claiming to hold a belief, principle, or virtue that you don't actually hold.  You have yet to actually identify what said belief, principle, or virtue is for Maverick2.

All you've done is repeat the exact same claim over and over again.... that it's hypocritical for him to have desires that conflict with the desires of others.  It simply isn't... even if those desires are the exact same thing and even if they had the exact same methodology.  For example, "I'd like to steal all the things in the world, and I wouldn't like anyone else to steal from me" is not hypocritical.  Heck it's not even a moral statement (which would be something like "I should steal all the things in the world, but others shouldn't."  Which would be an example of the Special Pleading fallacy).

What WOULD be hypocritical would be if he maintained a pretense of having a desire that he doesn't actually have.  That is what hypocrisy means.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocritical


Maybe you should go back and read the original post. It is on page one and is pretty short. You are making way more of an issue than it ever was. I originally said "it seems a bit hypocritical to me." Then when he wanted clairification and I attempted to explain, you jumped in like the valorous paladin you are and defended him against something that wasn't even a direct attack on him. Read Don Quixote sometime; you might find a kindered spirit.


I am correcting a person who is misinformed and who is actively engaged in misinforming others.

If anyone made it a bigger deal than it had to be, it was you.  Another might have simply noticed and acknowledged the error instead of putting on a show.  You have done little other than mudslinging in response to me trying to explain something to you, and this post is more of the same.

Oh, and didn't you say you were going to leave the conversation like twice now?  Talk about practicing what you preach.  :whistle:

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 11 juin 2012 - 09:08 .


#180
Patreus

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Leave the krysae alone, it's not that great in everyones hands. ffs.

#181
Gordo Schumway

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GodlessPaladin wrote...

Gordo Schumway wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Gordo Schumway wrote...
Godless, you don't get it, thought you did there. Sorry, I have enough students, I don't need another one that I don't get paid for. Peace. Enjoy the game.


Perhaps they didn't teach you in rhetoric how weak of an argument appeals to authority are (if you aren't outright making up your claims in that department).  Not once in this discussion have you actually addressed the core point:  That hypocrisy is about claiming to hold a belief, principle, or virtue that you don't actually hold.  You have yet to actually identify what said belief, principle, or virtue is for Maverick2.

All you've done is repeat the exact same claim over and over again.... that it's hypocritical for him to have desires that conflict with the desires of others.  It simply isn't... even if those desires are the exact same thing and even if they had the exact same methodology.  For example, "I'd like to steal all the things in the world, and I wouldn't like anyone else to steal from me" is not hypocritical.  Heck it's not even a moral statement (which would be something like "I should steal all the things in the world, but others shouldn't."  Which would be an example of the Special Pleading fallacy).

What WOULD be hypocritical would be if he maintained a pretense of having a desire that he doesn't actually have.  That is what hypocrisy means.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocritical


Maybe you should go back and read the original post. It is on page one and is pretty short. You are making way more of an issue than it ever was. I originally said "it seems a bit hypocritical to me." Then when he wanted clairification and I attempted to explain, you jumped in like the valorous paladin you are and defended him against something that wasn't even a direct attack on him. Read Don Quixote sometime; you might find a kindered spirit.


I am correcting a person who is misinformed and who is actively engaged in misinforming others.


Okay, we all thank you for your deeds. I am sure it is much appreciated by all concerned. Goodbye.

#182
Tre.will

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@ GodlessPaladin

My friend, you are trying entirely too hard to pass off as educated (not saying you arn't).  But, for now, I'm going to assume you are a teenager.

The exact statement you quoted IS hypocritical. You went so far as to consult a dictionary in a vain attempt to make a paper point. If one player wants another player to stop playing a certain way in order for THEM to play a certain way, THEY ARE BEING A HYPOCRITE. It really is not that hard to understand.

If I say that you don't know what the word hypocrite means, but at the same time I claim to know what hypocrite means when I really don't, that would make me a hypocrite.

=]

Modifié par Tre.will, 11 juin 2012 - 09:08 .


#183
GodlessPaladin

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GodlessPaladin wrote...

Tre.will wrote...
The
statements were hypocritical in every sense of the word.  No amount of
forced eloquent explanation will change that.

  Name one sense.  
Here's a list of 'em for you.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy


Tre.will wrote...
The exact statement you quoted IS hypocritical.

Ah, of course, that answers how it's hypocritical! Just insisting that it is again, but this time capitalizing IS! 

If one player wants another player to stop playing a certain way in order for THEM to play a certain way, THEY ARE BEING A HYPOCRITE.

Oh, look, insisting that they are being a hypocrite even more loudly this time (all caps!).  Now you've clearly identified how it's hypocritical in every sense of the word. /sarcasm

Please point to one sense of the word that applies in that context. Just one. You said all apply, but I'd seriously take just one. Though I'd be really impressed if you can get all. I'd like to see how you work in religious pretenses into that spiel.

Tre.will wrote...

@ GodlessPaladin

My friend, you
are trying entirely too hard to pass off as educated (not saying you
arn't).  But, for now, I'm going to assume you are a teenager.

 
This is coming from a guy whose response to being asked to support his conclusion simply restated his conclusion repeatedly with the aid of More Capitalization.  I gave you a complete list of senses of the word.  Please point to one that applies.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 11 juin 2012 - 09:33 .


#184
Tre.will

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@ GodlessPaladin

I used all caps in hopes that the emphasis wouldn't go over your head. It did.

A hypocrite is/can be a person who does something they tell others not to do. Oh! I know what you need. An example.

A hypocrite who criticizes other people for not voting but who don't always vote themselves. (see what I did?  I copied and pasted from a dictionary too!)

I don't think it can get any easier to understand than that. Thank god for lamen terms.

=]

Modifié par Tre.will, 11 juin 2012 - 09:31 .


#185
GodlessPaladin

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Tre.will wrote...
A hypocrite is/can be a person who does something they tell others not to do.

 

First, that is not what was claimed to be said in the quoted post.

Second, that's not actually a definition of the word hypocrite.  In fact it is often specifically noted as a misuse of the word, including in one of the reference links I gave you.  Which also gives examples of misuses of the word, such as that an alcoholic who praises and advises temperance but has not been able to conquer his addiction himself is not hypocritical.

Oh! I know what you need. An example.

  No, I need what I asked for in the first place:  For you to look at the dictionary and pick out even one sense of the word that applies to the quoted statement that was claimed to be hypocritical.

Thank god for lamen terms.


...Uh huh.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 11 juin 2012 - 09:47 .


#186
WandererRTF

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In the end, it is Bioware who decides what weapon is or isn't OP'd in THEIR game. Even though there is no such thing as an OP'd weapon in a PvE game, in my opinion.

Yes there is, sudden bump in results and it would be a miracle if Bioware wouldn't beef the enemies yet again. Having OP abilities or weapons will result in either reduction of the said capabilities or boosting those of the opposing side. Because it is in the end Bioware who wants balance (its a financial interest). Now answer these, do you really want enemies to be buffed to the level that they would be challenging to Krysae wielding infiltrators or would you rather nerf Krysae?

#187
f03cqc

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Yep sure did go from a discussion about the balance of a weapon and whether or not it affects the the fun of other players into an argument about hypocrisy. Godless is obviously going to stick to what he believes is right, whether or not it actually is right. No need to try to correct him, especially not in this thread. I was rather enjoying the discussion about whether or not the Krysae was infringing on the the fun of others, and would very much like to see THAT discussion continue.

#188
Oggy666

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Tre.will wrote...

There's actually nothing hypocritical about the statements you just
attributed to him at all (I haven't bothered to read M4v3r1ck2's actual
posts).  Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or
religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have,
and frankly the values expressed in the statements you listed are not
contradictory and thus do not establish hypocrisy.


The statements were hypocritical in every sense of the word.  No amount of forced eloquent explanation will change that.

_______

Now, my reason for posting in this thread, again.

Every player pays THEIR money to play this game.  Thus, they are entitled to play this game however they damn well please.  That is a fact.  That cannot be disputed.  That will never change.  If a player wants to use the Krysae X in every game he plays and top the scoreboard, guess what?  His $60 says he can.  When a player goes into a lobby they can check the other players loadouts.  If they see a player using the Krysae, and they have a problem with it, they can leave the lobby and choose another lobby that is more favorable to them.  It really is THAT easy.  I play this game for fun.  It's PvE.  It's us versus them.  If 3 players on my team want to use the Krysae.  More power to them.  I'm still going to play the way I play.  NO player should be arrogant to the point of believing every other player should play like them.  If 5,000 players love the Krysae how it is and enjoy using it, why should 100 players who think the weapon is OP, decide the effectiveness or lackthereof, of the Krysae.

In the end, it is Bioware who decides what weapon is or isn't OP'd in THEIR game.  Even though there is no such thing as an OP'd weapon in a PvE game, in my opinion.

=]


Exactly: there is no OP'd weapon!!!    There has to be a scale from weak to strong weapons. I think a bad player cannot do well on gold even with Krysae - needs a good team to survive, then he can kill something, and for sure he wont be on top.

Why not cry about shuriken compared to a widow? Nerf the widow, I want it to deal same damage on the same class! And balance all the guns so it wouldn't matter which I choose! And change warp, throw, carnage to "pin-point" so you actually have to aim and to deal same amount of damage! Why can't someone score with phaeston as much as someone with Valiant? Spamming explosions is OP!

And for the kill-stealing? What? That's not a weapon issue, that's the player beeing a ******* *****!!!

Krysae is issue for someone....as are adepts and vanguards for snipers, or the shockwave lovers - and snipers for vanguards. Its all about players, how they play regarding to teammates and how you play. COOP is cooperation, so communicate and don'tgo after the same enemies - so simple.

This Krysae kills are nothing abnormal. It has also disadvantages: long reload time, it hits the first target in the way, and for example a pyro or hunter needs most of the times 3 shots (cloak on) with some aiming, so damage is OK. And when the battle comes too close - its a piece of **** weapon.






 

#189
Alexraptor1

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What they should do is remove the proximity fuse on it, and make it so that it explodes inside the target with AOE damage, forcing you to actually aim and directly hit the target.

#190
UKStory135

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I don't think the Krysae is OP in terms of making the game too easy, but it is OP compared to the other sniper rifles.

Uncloaked and with no ammo mods or powers used, this gun takes 3 shots to kill geth troopers on gold, 6 shots to kill rocket troopers, 7-8 shots to kill hunters and pyros, and 30+ shots to kill a geth prime.

Even with the cloak buff, it still takes a long time to kill things with weapon, it's just shorter than the other sniper rifles. I just the fact that I can be a sniper infiltrator again, the shotgun infiltrator was getting boring.

#191
GGW KillerTiger

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Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

having 1 shot in the gun would be PERFECT.

Until everyone starts to reload cancel it ....

#192
kr3g

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D.Shepard wrote...



Do you know "reload cancel", that is considered by devs part of game mechanics, will still apply? See Claymore.


So what? That way only 1 shot will be with TC bonus, not all 3.


GodlessPaladin wrote...
Just because I don't like your change doesn't mean I don't think it can and should be changed for the better.

Well, no offence, but i didnt saw you suggestion to balance it out :)


eldrjth wrote...

thats terrible. try using it with the single shot (and reload afterwards) and post your score. prob be 2nd last on the scoreboard. infact you can do that and Ill beat you handedly with just a carnifex. GT: gewrf

Outscore me with a carnifex? You must be kidding :)
But so it will be still attractive to use, they can also increase damage to match Widow.

#193
Guest_M4v3r1ck2_*

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I read through this thread, and there have been some interesting posts, especially in response to my original posts. The following are points I'd like to make:

1. Thank you GodlessPaladin. You understand the meaning of my posts and even went so far as to defend this meaning. You got flamed in the harshest way, and I'm sorry you had to go through that, especially on my behalf. One usually sees someone defend her or his own posts, but one rarely sees another person defend another's post with so much rigor. I really appreciate what you've gone through, and what you could be going through, and I want to state publicly that you do understand I stated only an opinion and not an edict telling others how they must play by my rules. The flames came, and you defended my posts even though for doing so those flames against you became very personal and caustic.

2. To the people who were launching the vitriolic attacks on GodlessPaladin: I fail to see where my posts were hypocritical. It isn't hypocritical to state a like or dislike. It would be hypocritical had I stated that all players must game my way or not at all. I didn't state this, and the people who think I did ought to read my posts again, closely. These are public forums; what I saw in these attacks on GodlessPaladin were dismaying to say the least. It seems one or more people misinterpreted what I said, and others leapt on this misinterpretation and would not refer back to my posts for any clarification. That's just sad. GodlessPaladin was standing up to what he rightly saw as someone misreading a post and then defending against the misinterpretation. We should all hope there are a lot of GodlessPaladins who will put themselves in flames' way in order to defend the integrity of the forums.

3. Krysae is OP. A sniper weapon is geared to headshots for maximum damage. This is even in the Rank evolution descriptions, where one specifically adds headshot damage. Since when does a sniper have AoE abilities where a person can hit near the enemy yet score a direct hit, and with so much damage? This really dumbs down sniper skills. I've only been gaming about 6 weeks now, and I started out as a bronze, and I was lucky to be a bronze. Since then, many players have helped me even forming missions just to show me what skills do what and how to use guns and skills as well as map and game tactics. I can do golds now, but it took a lot of practice. I like the fact that when ME 3 first came out there weren't these heavy damage dealing weapons. I had to learn how to play with what I had, and with my team. Why should a weapon have allowed me to do a silver when it was only the weapon allowing me to do this and not my abilities? I find it fun to have had to learn, to have met the cool people I have, and to continue to learn every day. And tbh, I had as much fun in bronze matches then as I do in silver and gold matches now.

BW though is competing with other games for traffic, and when Halo comes out, this competition will really increase. It seems to me that the devs at BW want more people to be able to do gold missions, so they push out weapons that allow this to happen. It will work, and it has worked. The Krysae is one such weapon. Make it a shotty and throttle its range or do something, but as it is, it's a Claymore X in a sniper rifle build. That just doesn't make much sense to me. If you think I'm wrong, that's fine. I would ask my detractors why anything called a *sniper rifle* should be easy to use and hit as an AoE as opposed to being hard to use and require a direct headshot?

Cheers

Modifié par M4v3r1ck2, 11 juin 2012 - 03:37 .


#194
niripas

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You see - even in real life you have XM-29 (which is direct equivalent of Krysae) and sniper rifles. Both have it's purpose. Anti-materiel rifles are designed to hit hard on weak points of enemy armour, programmable grenade launchers are designed to program projectile to explode in the proximity of the target. Problem in ME3 is that they practically removed weak points from bosses (Prime is a perfect example - even in real life you are trying to shoot optics on the tank if you are confronted with one and have to fight).

#195
iloveexplosives

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InfamousResult wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Leave it alone. Perfect.


No.


Ditto way too op ether nerf damage or mag size


One should not be able to score multiple kills without aiming or hitting the target it is supposed to snipe not rockit barrage. Most of the people(not all just most) defending it just don't want to have to work at sniping to be good

Modifié par iloveexplosives, 11 juin 2012 - 10:20 .