168 réponses à ce sujet

[Statulos]

The Angry One wrote...

One can be trained to use be comfortable in heavy armor though, besides if you take a look at the troops behind Loghain and Cauthrien in the "bravely run away!" cutscene at Ostagar, there are a fair few women, I counted about 1 woman per 4-5 men or so, in full heavy armour (that heavy chainmail stuff).

You´re absolutely right. I have used scale mail, chainmaill, plates and other armours and while they aren´t as confortable as wearing shorts and a t-shirt, they aren´t that bad at all. And this also applies to females, since there are several in the historical reenactment group I´m involved: they run, move and fight just as us, males.

[LdyShayna]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

LdyShayna, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate at the mo, btw.

Heh.  Yeah, but I was just arguing that marrying Isolde is not, ipso facto, proof of Eamon's sexism, so I would need mor eevidence to take it at all seriously.    

Reluctantly, I must say that though I despise the woman, I don't think Isolde's as bubble-headed as being made out in this thread, either.   We're talking about a woman who defied all social conventions to bring an apostate into her household and thus defy one of the most powerful political forces in the realm (even if it was for short sighted and selfish reasons), had enough power in said household to effectively keep this a secret, had enough sway (and, it could be argued, presence of mind) to order all of the arling's knights out of the castle (and away from the influence of the demon), and was PRESENT during Jowan's torture and actively participated in his questioning. 

Though she didn't comport herself very well in the showdown with Conner, and willingly led Teagan into a trap in hopes that he could solve the problem for her (one of the reasons I despise her ), she doesn't really qualify as brainless and powerless trophy, to me. 

For my position that Eamon is a sexist pig, I believe that sexists have an innate dislike/distrust of the opposite sex, which is what drives them to their sexism. That's where my misogynist comment came from, I suppose I should have clarified.

True, but generally he will personally and openly exhibit these tendencies unless social forces are strongly against him, as he will see himself as a champion to stand against such..err....female villainy?

Now my head hurts from thinking up long words and I may have to go lie down.

I've caused pain.     Think of kittens!

[Vormaerin]

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

Ya know... Ser Cauthrien just made me hate her. Talking about loyalty and honor when it was convenient for her and then it was just one persuade before she was backing down like a whipped dog.

Sometimes I wonder if players have any empathy or real world experience at all when they make these kinds of statements.   Its pretty clear right from the Ostagar cutscene that she's concerned about his decisions.   She's loyal....Fereldens value loyalty above almost everything.... but by the end she (like Anora, who also idolizes Loghain) believes he's gone crazy.

She doesn't "back down like a whipped dog".   She's not the least bit intimidated by you.   She believes that the most loyal action she can take is to stop him from destroying everything he cares about in a fit of madness.   She, like Anora, wants you to stop him...not kill him.

[Drakron]

LdyShayna wrote...

Though she didn't comport herself very well in the showdown with Conner, and willingly led Teagan into a trap in hopes that he could solve the problem for her (one of the reasons I despise her ), she doesn't really qualify as brainless and powerless trophy, to me. 

No, she did not ... Conner ordered him to come, she did not told the whole story because Teagan could very well simply run and inform the Chantry and you KNOW how they deal with abominations.

Its in line with her attempts to keep Conner safe as she puts him above anyone and anything else, then again its not as if she have that much choice in this matter.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Vormaerin wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

Ya know... Ser Cauthrien just made me hate her. Talking about loyalty and honor when it was convenient for her and then it was just one persuade before she was backing down like a whipped dog.

Sometimes I wonder if players have any empathy or real world experience at all when they make these kinds of statements.   Its pretty clear right from the Ostagar cutscene that she's concerned about his decisions.   She's loyal....Fereldens value loyalty above almost everything.... but by the end she (like Anora, who also idolizes Loghain) believes he's gone crazy.

She doesn't "back down like a whipped dog".   She's not the least bit intimidated by you.   She believes that the most loyal action she can take is to stop him from destroying everything he cares about in a fit of madness.   She, like Anora, wants you to stop him...not kill him.

Sometimes, I wonder if people actually look at the situation before making statements about other people's ability to empathize...

I can buy that she was staying alive at Ostagar, that part isn't a problem.

However... She waits... WAITS until she no longer has the number advantage to face you to back down and say it is for loyalty. How quaint.

Look dude, she was more than willing to talk down to you at the Landsmeet. She was more than willing to talk tough when she outnumbered you with eight archers, four soldiers, and a mage to back her up.

Her loyalty was to the crown and she gave that up for survival, fine. I can buy that and even understand it. However, as you proceed through the game, what is her excuse? You can't tell me she doesn't know. How could she not? She was his right hand, at least military wise, so she had to know something. Anything was damning...

She had to know that you weren't traitors because she saw the traitor give her the order. Howe is stated as not being that discreet so I can't exactly call her ignorant of his deeds. Then when you are going to a damn legal proceeding, she wants to fight over honor/loyalty in the same way I'd expect a thug to get bent out of shape over his momma being diss'd.

So yea, I am saying whipped dog and meaning every syllable. She purposely deluded herself and either by lacking numbers or the bewilderingly INSTANT self realization of the lie she has told herself, she backed down.

I actually felt sorry for her when I read the codex after killing her with her whole crew. Then I let her live the next time and then spared her again only to find more bile than I could imagine. She knew all along and waited til then to back down... I was sickened.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adria Teksuni wrote..

Say what you want about Loghain, his commanding officer was a chick.

And that is why he failed!

[The Angry One]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Adria Teksuni wrote..

Say what you want about Loghain, his commanding officer was a chick.

And that is why he failed!

Fool! Ser Cauthrien could take on the entire Blight and the Archdemon blindfolded with one hand tied behind her back and the other with her fingers up her nose!

It's a shame she's a bit dull.. but aside from that..

[DeathWyrmNexus]

The Angry One wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Adria Teksuni wrote..

Say what you want about Loghain, his commanding officer was a chick.

And that is why he failed!

Fool! Ser Cauthrien could take on the entire Blight and the Archdemon blindfolded with one hand tied behind her back and the other with her fingers up her nose!

It's a shame she's a bit dull.. but aside from that..

Which is why she is only a threat with 8 archers, a mage, and a handful of soldiers in melee with her... >_>

I'm so very impressed.

[LdyShayna]

Drakron wrote...
No, she did not ... Conner ordered him to come, she did not told the whole story because Teagan could very well simply run and inform the Chantry and you KNOW how they deal with abominations.

Its in line with her attempts to keep Conner safe as she puts him above anyone and anything else, then again its not as if she have that much choice in this matter.

While I don't put it past her to lie to the PC, if you ask her why she must take Teagan and only Teagan and my human noble challeneged her at every step, trust me  Heh) , she tells you becaue she convinced "the thing" that only Teagan could help Conner, and she had to promise to only bring Teagan back with her. 

I will concede she probably didn't consider it a trap, but I don't tend to believe she was ordered to fetch Teagan in the first place, but instead believe she wen tto get him hoping he would, indeed, figure out a way to solve the problem for her.

As an aside, I always imagined that guard that came with her staring with demonically controlled eyes while she talked.  Creepy.  That's totally my imagination, though.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

Depends on what country you're in, menasure. For example, in the United States military, women are prohibited from ground combat. In Israel, they are not.

Technicly, women in the US Army can participate in ground combat. But not often. They are assigned support roles.

The Combat Readyness Center did a study on combat performance...had experimental squads and assigments and training and stuff. Women were delegated to support roles precicesly because of the results of such experiments.
Long story short, overall results of combat performance favor men by a fair margin.

And as far as Israel goes - outnumbered and sorounded from all sides..not to mention the government is all gun-ho and militant. They allow everyone to serve there.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 12 décembre 2009 - 11:22 .

[Darth_Trethon]

The Angry One wrote...

westiex9 wrote...

But what has Eamon actually said or done to make you think hes sexist?

I'm speaking of how the people under his rulership live and act, and unlike Loghain or Cailan, none of his soldiers or knights are female.. and all of his castle servants are.

Still trying to pull off outlandish aguments I see.....

I say it's all Duncan's fault for not having traveled back in time and stopped the darkspawn from coming into existence......however that may have happened. That makes every single other injustice that ever happened in the past and future of Thedas also be duncan's fault. When the Orlesians conquered and enslaved Ferelden......yep you guessed it......duncan's fault. Ostagar? Yep he's to blame there too for nor seeing the future and not pulling god powers out of his behind to single handedly beat the darkspawn.

See.....now that is a reasonable and well built argument wouldn't you agree.

[The Angry One]

Someone's still bitter that Anora isn't the darling of the forums I see...

[Darth_Trethon]

The Angry One wrote...

Someone's still bitter that Anora isn't the darling of the forums I see...

Me? Bitter? Nah.....I'm just wondering how you get to your conclusions.

[Danakir]

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Adria Teksuni wrote..

Say what you want about Loghain, his commanding officer was a chick.

And that is why he failed!

Fool! Ser Cauthrien could take on the entire Blight and the Archdemon blindfolded with one hand tied behind her back and the other with her fingers up her nose!

It's a shame she's a bit dull.. but aside from that..

Which is why she is only a threat with 8 archers, a mage, and a handful of soldiers in melee with her... >_>

I'm so very impressed.

Gameplay and story segregation, my friend.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Danakir wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Adria Teksuni wrote..

Say what you want about Loghain, his commanding officer was a chick.

And that is why he failed!

Fool! Ser Cauthrien could take on the entire Blight and the Archdemon blindfolded with one hand tied behind her back and the other with her fingers up her nose!

It's a shame she's a bit dull.. but aside from that..

Which is why she is only a threat with 8 archers, a mage, and a handful of soldiers in melee with her... >_>

I'm so very impressed.

Gameplay and story segregation, my friend.

The story shows that I stomped her face in with all her guards and the forums show that she is a chump when it is just her. Story shows that you can use just one persuade to show her that she is a moron. I am sure you can say gameplay against those but fact remains, the story has her with a huge wad of back up to be an actual threat and story shows she is an idiot when you take everything in by sparing her.

So segregate what? I wasn't impressed reading the codex and I wasn't impressed with the fight where she brought a small army to arrest me. I was actually insulted with the ease that she backed down when you confronted her with the logic of her actions, or lack of logic

[The Angry One]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Someone's still bitter that Anora isn't the darling of the forums I see...

Me? Bitter? Nah.....I'm just wondering how you get to your conclusions.

With logic!

[menasure]

does anyone else think that Ser Cautrien and Sten would make an excellent couple? she seems a perfect fit for the sort of 'mating ritual' he discusses with morrigan...

[Herr Uhl]

menasure wrote...

does anyone else think that Ser Cautrien and Sten would make an excellent couple? she seems a perfect fit for the sort of 'mating ritual' he discusses with morrigan...

We have yet to see Qunari women. I'm eager to see if they even resemble the males.

[MrIsidor]

sexists have an innate dislike/distrust of the opposite sex

That sounds like a description of rabid feminist claiming all men be sexists. Go figure

As for complaining about Lloyd being out fighting. I haven't had him out fighting in my games. If he's out there it's because you made him. It's a bit silly then complaining that he's fighting.

As for Teagan. All women and children, who are deemed not capable of fighting, are locked away for safety in the chantry together with whom? yup, Teagan, so he doesn't risk hurting himself. Teagan is just a big wuzz.

[The Angry One]

Herr Uhl wrote...

menasure wrote...

does anyone else think that Ser Cautrien and Sten would make an excellent couple? she seems a perfect fit for the sort of 'mating ritual' he discusses with morrigan...

We have yet to see Qunari women. I'm eager to see if they even resemble the males.

According to the Codex, they are quite distinct.

[Herr Uhl]

The Angry One wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

menasure wrote...

does anyone else think that Ser Cautrien and Sten would make an excellent couple? she seems a perfect fit for the sort of 'mating ritual' he discusses with morrigan...

We have yet to see Qunari women. I'm eager to see if they even resemble the males.

According to the Codex, they are quite distinct.

Yes, but are they blobs that hover in the air different or what.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 12 décembre 2009 - 11:43 .

[The Angry One]

MrIsidor wrote...

As for complaining about Lloyd being out fighting. I haven't had him out fighting in my games. If he's out there it's because you made him. It's a bit silly then complaining that he's fighting.

Point is I should be able to make Bella and Kaitlyn fight too, if I can make Lloyd of all people.
And if they should happen to tragically fall in battle and never go on to marry Teagan, well, that's just fate isn't it? My hands are clean.

[Curlain]

The Angry One wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

menasure wrote...

does anyone else think that Ser Cautrien and Sten would make an excellent couple? she seems a perfect fit for the sort of 'mating ritual' he discusses with morrigan...

We have yet to see Qunari women. I'm eager to see if they even resemble the males.

According to the Codex, they are quite distinct.

O_O Broodmothers?!!

[Drakron]

LdyShayna wrote...
While I don't put it past her to lie to the PC, if you ask her why she must take Teagan and only Teagan and my human noble challeneged her at every step, trust me  Heh) , she tells you becaue she convinced "the thing" that only Teagan could help Conner, and she had to promise to only bring Teagan back with her.

She says that for two reasons:

One being they are unaware of the Warden arrival and assumed that was Teagan that was holding up the village.

The other being she was not going to disclose the fact Conner was a abomination in front of perfect strangers that could simply walk out and come back with a full contigent of Templars.

Also Abomination Conner was not exactly pleased that the Village was still standing (its not like you only hear her side of the story), you can think it was a trap but what exactly was stoping from him to take matters personally as it clearly was annoyed by the attack failure? Teagan was a sacrifice in exchange from the abomination not going there and deal with it personally.

Also lets assume she decided to get rid of the abomination that is controlling her son? what would be the end result as far she knows? Conner death and the only thing that prevents that fate is the fact Conner accepted the deal willing that did offer some hope but did she knew that? no ... she still had hope despite everything she knew pointed the fact Conner would die as a result.

And I go back to how she placed her son over everyone and everything.

Modifié par Drakron, 12 décembre 2009 - 11:46 .

[The Angry One]

Curlain wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

menasure wrote...

does anyone else think that Ser Cautrien and Sten would make an excellent couple? she seems a perfect fit for the sort of 'mating ritual' he discusses with morrigan...

We have yet to see Qunari women. I'm eager to see if they even resemble the males.

According to the Codex, they are quite distinct.

O_O Broodmothers?!!

Ogre broodmothers, yes.
And I don't want to see that. Ever. You hear me BioWare? If you ever subject me to that I'll hunt you all down.

Modifié par The Angry One, 12 décembre 2009 - 11:46 .