24 réponses à ce sujet

[jfb3neo]

Just got Shale to join my party. I did the quest before Redcliffe, and I am looking forward to using him. I want to understand which crystals to use just like I wish to understand which stone enchantment I should apply to my main character's and Alistair's sword.

There are enchantment stones for physical defence, for raising my attack vs darkspawn, for raising my attack vs undead. There is potions that offer spiritual resistance. There are crystals for Shale to give him natural or spiritual attack and/or damage. These are just to name a very few.

I know I may hear a ton of different opinions, and I need to be much more specific, so I will. Keep in mind that I am very early in the game, and it's been years since I have anticipated a role playing game such as this, so I am eager to learn but also young in experience.

Lets take they battle in Redcliffe, for example. These are skeletons of fallen soldiers that have been taken over by spirits/demons, so where would you go in this situation? You want a killer sword and you want Shale to inflict the most damage, but how do you know what to use? I mean, are these undead creatures or spirits or darkspawn, and how does natural damage fit into all this? Fire and cold and electricity are fairly recognizable and easy to understand, because you can see what they do, but how do you really know how you are being attacked, and what type of damage you are sustaining, and which attack works best for you against these types of enemies.

I am using the march of the undead in Redcliffe as an example, because there are so many different tactics for so many different enemies, so I chose to focus on these enemies, and hope to understand the difference between natuaral and physical and spiritual and so on.

Also, do most people stick to using the same characters in their party or do more people like a little more variety in their team? I am trying to use everyone at different points in the game, but I fear this will be harder to build a good character base.

[Serenity84]

The damage is color coded.



orange = fire

green = nature

yellow = electricity

white = physical

blue = cold

purple = spirit



It also shows you immunities. Undead for example are immune to cold damage

[DragoonKain3]

Undead is most problematic, since not only are they immune to cold, they're immune to nature as well.



So yeah, if you give Shale either of these crystals during Redcliffe defense, you're pretty much FUBAR.



If you want versatility, just equip Shale with Spirit crytals. Sure no one is vulnerable to spirit, but no one resists it either. Lightning is next best because only Golems are immune to it and none resist it AFAIK. Fire is the third best, as only demons seem to resist/immune to it.

[lllevokelll]

The game will bump up the level of characters you are not active with to be one level lower than your own, so if you leave someone out of your party for a while, you can scoop them back up and hit the level up button and config them, and they'll be in the general ballpark of your party's level.



Generally, only particularly difficult fights or nightmare will make you finesse to the point of fine-graining shifting weapons or armor around per fight for the best dmg / resists. More typically, you might just tweak tactics slots mildly to accentuate fire or ice or so forth (i.e. frost weapons spell rotated out vs undead as immune) on the general campaign of the moment. Overall crowd control and spell combo tactics typically have much more effect, though every bit helps.



Revenants are probably the special case to this, as particularly interesting set pieces where you want to come prepared with the right equip/tactics all the way down to enchant runes (matters more on nightmare), as they are deliberate hard boss fights, though for the most part optional.

[lllevokelll]

Rotating people is fun because you can do their personal quests / side quests (and gets exp), though for the most part, personally, I keep a core team per playthrough. The random commentary as you walk over bridges and such is also a reason to rotate around, though you can just jog around a lot with different mixes towards the end prior to the battle - you don't get all the evolving event-based commentary triggers that way, but you get a fair bit.



The other rule of thumb is to take along people who will simply have more script to say for various adventures. Zevran has, as you might expect, some dialogue when you are considering the dalish, as he is of dalish dissent. Alistair interacts / chats a lot on the redcliff / arle adventure, as he was raised there. Leliana on the sacred ashes. Etc. It's just the odd chat or extra mini-cutscene tidbit, but it's mildly more entertaining than taking along nuetrals.

[lllevokelll]

Lastly, the battle in redcliff, being exp greedy, I ran my party out in front of the fire immediately, which gets you through just before it auto-lights, laid down a repulsion hex to bounce the undead back, and got frisky with the spells and general death and destruction. You may not have hex, of course, merely remarking that it was quite effective on that battle's front half. On the docks, different tactics apply, but mine are a little weird, as I'll go to great lengths for the personal challenge of keeping all blue allies alive, which gets no bonus but can be quite hard when they get in the way of AoEs or otherwise do silly things you can't control. The extra challenge keeps the combat interesting though - shame there isn't a game detail that notices and rewards for it somehow - like an achievement for saving AI allies lives, but I digress.

Modifié par lllevokelll, 12 décembre 2009 - 07:40 .

[jfb3neo]

Thank you. I really appreciate DragoonKain3's comments on Shale, and I am starting to see from lllevokelll that certain party members have better dialogue in certain areas. I do look for that. I brought Alistair along to Redcliffe mostly because it felt right, and noticed right away that without him, you don't have that little dialogue in the beginning as you walk into Redcliffe. I guess it's the little things I like.



This is probably a bit too general, but do most people stick with the same characters over and over again, or do more like the variety of mixing it up. (I guess I could have started another post just on this question alone, but wanted to see if I can move into this question since it still involves switching party members.) I was surprised when I found out that you can actually go back to camp and start leveling up a party member that hasn't been used for a while. It doesn't seem fair. I know this is fantasy, but how can a party member learn without the experience of battle?

[Edelwolf]

But I consistently damage the undead in radcliff with COLD damage on hard.

Freezing and shattering works also.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

Undead is most problematic, since not only are they immune to cold, they're immune to nature as well.

Named undead generally aren't immune to nature.  Outside Warden's Keep, the generic skeletons are immune, but the master skeletons are not.

[Forumtroll]

Undead are actually weak to fire damage. Shale's nature crystals give the best defense, fire gives the best offensive stats, at least the last tiers do. I believe lightning gives pluses to crit damage. Spirit give Shale better regen. This only applies to crystal equipment found after level fifteen. Shale can still hold threat on things that are immune to his damage due to threaten the bonuses from his tank line.

[jfb3neo]

OK, let's get specific. I'm in Redcliffe now battling tons of skeletons. Now, for Shale, specifically, which crystals would provide him with greatest defense - natural or spiritual, and which crystals would give him greatest offense against skeletons - fire, cold, or electric (I have not yet aquired spiritual attack crystals).



If I can understand this perhaps I will better understand the game.

[Creature 1]

jfb3neo wrote...
This is probably a bit too general, but do most people stick with the same characters over and over again, or do more like the variety of mixing it up. (I guess I could have started another post just on this question alone, but wanted to see if I can move into this question since it still involves switching party members.)

I swap around all the time.  Sten, Shale, Oghren, and the dog get shortchanged, though.  

I was surprised when I found out that you can actually go back to camp and start leveling up a party member that hasn't been used for a while. It doesn't seem fair. I know this is fantasy, but how can a party member learn without the experience of battle?

I figure they're out battling darkspawn as well while I'm gone.  Not like there aren't plenty of them to go around.  

[Alphakiller]

lllevokelll wrote...

Lastly, the battle in redcliff, being exp greedy, I ran my party out in front of the fire immediately, which gets you through just before it auto-lights, laid down a repulsion hex to bounce the undead back, and got frisky with the spells and general death and destruction. You may not have hex, of course, merely remarking that it was quite effective on that battle's front half. On the docks, different tactics apply, but mine are a little weird, as I'll go to great lengths for the personal challenge of keeping all blue allies alive, which gets no bonus but can be quite hard when they get in the way of AoEs or otherwise do silly things you can't control. The extra challenge keeps the combat interesting though - shame there isn't a game detail that notices and rewards for it somehow - like an achievement for saving AI allies lives, but I digress.

if nobody dies in the battle at redcliffe, you get some kind of helmet as a prize. I forget the stats.

[Creature 1]

jfb3neo wrote...

OK, let's get specific. I'm in Redcliffe now battling tons of skeletons. Now, for Shale, specifically, which crystals would provide him with greatest defense - natural or spiritual, and which crystals would give him greatest offense against skeletons - fire, cold, or electric (I have not yet aquired spiritual attack crystals).

If I can understand this perhaps I will better understand the game.

The crystals get different bonuses depending on their quality in addition to their base damage type.  Check out what you have and see what other benefits you will gain.  If you're not sure which is best check their resale price.  That usually gives you a decent idea how useful they are.  However, you might find yourself in a special situation where a particular type of resistance comes in handy.  But Redcliffe is pretty vanilla--not really many special attacks or damage types, just physical damage. 

No cold or nature damage versus the undead, so definitely not those crystals. 

[mousestalker]

On a side note, Shale is most emphatically not a him. Shale has never been and will never be, male.

[themaxzero]

The general resistance rules:

Dragons (including smaller versions) are resistant or immune to fire but vulnerable to cold.

Undead (Skeletons + Zombies) are generally highly resistant or immune to cold and nature but vulnerable to fire.

Golems are resistant to cold and electricity but take full damage from fire and spirit. They have no vulnerabilities

Overall you can't go wrong with Spirit damage and Electricity is good 95% of the time too.

Defensive wise you should either get Spirit resistance or Fire resistance. Fireball and Dragonbreath are fairly common fire wise. Crushing Prison, Blood Wound are fairly common spirit wise.

Modifié par themaxzero, 17 décembre 2009 - 08:23 .

[tetracycloide]

Shale's "best" small crystals by target attributes against whites and yellows:



Living target, low armor: Fire.

Living target, high armor: Ice.

Undead target, low armor: Fire.

Undead target, high armor: Fire.

Demon target, low armor: Spirit.

Demon target, high armor:Spirit.



Outside of these categories there are a few fights where priorities shift. High dragon, Flemeth, Revenants, and Gaxkang



Revenants: Large Lightning crystals for additional defense and attack since they are, mostly, melee fighters that debuff attack and defense scores. The dexterity, dodge, and attack bonuses will help here if Shale is having trouble tanking. If Shale is on damage, small Fire is the best option if his attack is high enough, otherwise small lightning.



High Dragon and Flemeth: Large Fire crystals for flame breaths. Small nature crystals for regeneration and physical resistance.



Gaxkang: Large Ice crystals will help with the cold attacks and with the healing. With a very high level spirit crystal the spell resist might be more useful but at clear, maybe even flawless or below the ice crystal is best. For small crystals nature or lighning for constitution or attack either to resist or offset the entropy debuffs to attack.

[MarcAntony]

Not to change the subject, but am I the only one who finds a well-geared/talented Allistair to be a far superior tank to Shale?



I have to force myself to use Shale sometimes, just so I don't feel gibbed about the $12 I spent to get him.....

[tetracycloide]

Well, that depends on a few factors. Allistair is better after he's been built for dexterity and has 100% spell resistance from gear. Until then, Shale is almost always a better magic soak due to her high resistances from gear and being built for constitution. Against physical there's a tipping point in Alistairs dexterity progression where he becomes superior but it doesn't start that way. Plus, early game especially, Shale holds agro better than Allistair.

[MarcAntony]

I can see that - I just finished my first playthrough and didn't actually get Shale until mid-way through. By that time, I already had Juggernaut and Starfang on Allistair.



And then once you get Wade's Superior Dragonbone on Allistair + full Dex pumping....he's unstoppable. And not to mention, he can give Rally while actively tanking vs Shale having to stand there like a log to give his group buff.



I'm a min/max'ing Cunning Dagger/Dagger Rogue, so I hate not using +Attack buffs and it bothers me to no end to have to paralyze Shale to get his.... =p

[KariTR]

This is probably a bit too general, but do most people stick with the same characters over and over again, or do more like the variety of mixing it up. (I guess I could have started another post just on this question alone, but wanted to see if I can move into this question since it still involves switching party members.) I was surprised when I found out that you can actually go back to camp and start leveling up a party member that hasn't been used for a while. It doesn't seem fair. I know this is fantasy, but how can a party member learn without the experience of battle?

I like to mix it up. First playthrough I stuck with those I got early on - Alistair, Wynne and Morrigan with myself as a Rogue. Second playthrough I did as Mage and took Ali, Shale and Zevron (latter surprisingly efficient as an Archer!). Ive just finished an all melee playthrough, my rogue with Ali, Sten and Oghren and so far that's been my favourite mix. As you can see my only staple so far is Alistair, but I am going to dump him in my next play through and have an all girl group for giggles.

MarcAntony wrote...

Not to change the subject, but am I the only one who finds a well-geared/talented Allistair to be a far superior tank to Shale?

I have to force myself to use Shale sometimes, just so I don't feel gibbed about the $12 I spent to get him.....

Alistair is a great tank. My preference - as I have posted time and again - was my con-based build, though others prefer DEX.

This may have been asked already, but as The Stone Prisoner came with the box, how come you paid $12 for it?

[tetracycloide]

And then once you get Wade's Superior Dragonbone on Allistair + full Dex pumping....he's unstoppable. And not to mention, he can give Rally while actively tanking vs Shale having to stand there like a log to give his group buff.

I liked Shale more, conversation wise and concept wise, so I went with him on my play through.  I'm just now getting to the point where second specilizations are fully fleshed out on characters (level 18 and 19ish) and it's beginning to become apparently that shales 'totem' line is a very very poor substitue for Alistairs Champion specilization.  I felt pretty short changed when I hit level 14 with still no specilization points for Shale.

[jfb3neo]

Thank you mousestalker and tetracycloide . This is exactly what I was looking for. Appreciate the responses. Also, Serenity84 gave a very basic, but straight-forward response that I found later in the game manual, but really came in handy. Love having a forum to use to gain a better understanding. I know it's more fun to figure stuff out on my own, but this is the kind of stuff that I wish I know when I first started the game!

Modifié par jfb3neo, 21 décembre 2009 - 01:20 .

[Jestert]

undeads are vulnerable to fire. For sloted weapon try, cold iron and flaming runes. against demons, cold is the better choice. against natural animals or trees, avoid nature based damage, fire against tree are particularily effective.

[jfb3neo]

Quick question. When is natural ever effective as attack or protect. Seems spiritual is effective against demons, fire works best with undead, ice best against living armored enemies, electricity may be best all around and has potential to stun (all this I learned from reading forums and practicing on the battle field), but when ever use natural? Is there ever a good time to use natural?