65 réponses à ce sujet

[Urzon]

While the Magisters' abuse of people by magic is.... horrid, there is a plus side for their freedom with magic...

With them throwing magic around wily-nily, much less blood magic; they would have to develop a way to control and defend against said magics. If they didn't, all the Magisters would be dead is a matter of weeks; when some upstart opponent makes a fancy new spell. So if they wished to survive the life of a Magister, they would have to constantly learn how to defend against newer and more powerful spells.

Modifié par Urzon, 16 juin 2012 - 12:11 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Urzon wrote...

While the Magisters' abuse of people by magic is.... horrid, there is a plus side for their freedom with magic...

With them throwing magic around wily-nily, much less blood magic; they would have to develop a way to control and defend against said magics. If they didn't, all the Magisters would be dead is a matter of weeks; when some upstart opponent makes a fancy new spell. So if they wished to survive the life of a Magister, they would have to constantly learn how to defend against newer and more powerful spells.

For the most part, that counter against blood magic seems to be... more blood magic. So no, throwing magic around wily-nily seems to lead to more blood magic, both to break blood magic enchantments, and also because of the plain old-fashioned power it bestows.

[Archer]

AxeloftheKey wrote...

I never felt like Blood magic inherently meant that you were summoning demons. As long as the user is only using their own blood, not sacrificing their friends, and using it for a good cause, there isn't anything inherently wrong about using your blood to cast spells. As long as you're not hurting people/interacting with demons.

Pretty much this. To me blood magic was an alternative way of powering a spell. I think thats highlighted by the choice in Redcliffe. Lyrium is needed to perform the spell to allow entry to the fade. I always saw this as being needed becaues the spell was powerful and needed additional energy to perform it. Blood Magic in this example being the alternative method of powering the spell.

I never really understood how being a blood mage automaticly made the mage using it an abomination.

David Gaider actually has a clever scene in Asunder where he kind of approaches this, where its implied that the Templars use of phylactaries to track mages is in fact Blood Magic.

As Axel said its how the ability is used by each individual mage

[iConvalescence]

I can understand why blood magic is frowned upon especially from a religious stand-point.

It's like how modern day conservative Christians view Wicca and Ouija boards, they believe its a way of opening the door to demons into your life, who're usually able to outsmart humans and are very handy capable of "exploiting human sins" (In-game quote) and taking over them in possesions.

If you read the Lore, blood magic was taught to humans by a demon, and it is a magic that requires going deep beyond the veil into the fade, so you have to communicate with a demon to use blood magic.

Blood is often a catalyst for sealing the deal demons in many pagan religions as well. So it's basically sealing the deal with a supernatural being that doesn't want what's best for you. Whether one can or cannot escape the risks/tactics of the demon is one's own opinion (Merril was here), but just from the in-game experience we see many end up giving in to their sins and allowing the demon to possess them, which actually harms many people rather than just themselves. 

Modifié par iConvalescence, 16 juin 2012 - 10:53 .

[Hurbster]

Well in DA2 when ever anyone slightly pissed off a mage they went RRRRRRRAAAHHH !!! and turned into something icky. I'd say that's a drawback.

[Urzon]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

For the most part, that counter against blood magic seems to be... more blood magic. So no, throwing magic around wily-nily seems to lead to more blood magic, both to break blood magic enchantments, and also because of the plain old-fashioned power it bestows.

I'd have to disagree. Adralla (of Litany fame) was able to make all kinds of spells and items to counters blood magics, without actually having used blood magic herself.

Taken from the Litany's codex...

Adralla of Vyrantium dedicated her life to the study of blood magic—the academic study, rather than the practice. A deeply pious mage, she was renowned in her day for having found a counter to every form of mind control, a defense against dream walkers, and even counter-spells to demonic summons.

While I can see some Magisters using even more blood magic to break and counter spells, it wouldn't be practical to sacrifice an X amount of slaves to counter spells in the daily life of a Tevinter Magister. There are political schemeing/backstabbing, duels against rival Magisters, and all sorts of mayhem. There wouldn't be any slaves left alive in Tevinter if they used blood magic to overpower spells for everything.

It just would be easier for them to read up on and study different spells, and them to develop their own counterspells and enchantments to defend against them.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Urzon wrote...

I'd have to disagree. Adralla (of Litany fame) was able to make all kinds of spells and items to counters blood magics, without actually having used blood magic herself.

Taken from the Litany's codex...

Adralla of Vyrantium dedicated her life to the study of blood magic—the academic study, rather than the practice. A deeply pious mage, she was renowned in her day for having found a counter to every form of mind control, a defense against dream walkers, and even counter-spells to demonic summons.

So she proves it's possible to counter blood magic without more blood magic. The Tevinters we see ingame don't seem to care.

I never said it was impossible either, although in fairness I'd completely forgotten the Litany. (For that matter, everyone else usually does too.) However, the Litany is flawed in that it can only interrupt a spell that's being cast, rather than one that is fully in effect.

As to making it common to counter blood magic without blood... it doesn't seem to be that easy. The only known researcher was Adralla herself, and she's dead. A non-Tevinter trying to improve on her methods would be suspected of the practice rather than the academic study (the templars outside Tevinter are really stab-happy), and it looks like a Tevinter would be drawing a bullseye on the back of his/her head. And why not? The Tevinters don't seem to be capable of suspecting someone of self-less motives. They probably thought Adralla was just trying to get a leg-up. (And since the Codex entry is written in third person limited, how do we know she wasn't?)

While I can see some Magisters using even more blood magic to break and counter spells, it wouldn't be practical to sacrifice an X amount of slaves to counter spells in the daily life of a Tevinter Magister. There are political schemeing/backstabbing, duels against rival Magisters, and all sorts of mayhem. There wouldn't be any slaves left alive in Tevinter if they used blood magic to overpower spells for everything.

Well, blood magic isn't Caladrius's first resort when you attack him, is it? He only starts sacrificing soldiers when it becomes clear he stands a chance of losing, and only sacrifices the slaves as a deal to save himself when it becomes clear he's lost. He doesn't even want to fight at first. Unless the Warden forces a confrontation, Caladrius is happy to defuse the situation verbally. From what I understand, the same holds true for Danarius. The other strongest, more experienced magisters probably got that way partially because they're as good at avoiding fights as winning them, thus granting themselves time to practice.

Then there's the fact that magisters can't possibly have to fight off their rivals every day. That wouldn't leave the slaves extinct, it would leave the magisters extinct.

Besides which, a blood mage doesn't strictly need to kill anyone to fuel his powers. He's quite free to sacrifice some of his own blood.

It just would be easier for them to read up on and study different spells, and them to develop their own counterspells and enchantments to defend against them.

It would be cheaper than sacrificing slaves, but if you mess it up, you're dead, and in a setting where resurrection is basically impossible. When it became obvious the Magisters wanted Adralla dead, even she decided to flee Tevinter, and she (literally) wrote the (non-literal, from the look of its icon) book on countering blood magic with the regular kind.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Hawke spends a lot of time killing people so she can "get their stuff" so I don't think she's going to be taking the moral high ground anyway. Does it make a difference if she kills her enemies with blood magic or regular magic? Dead is dead. If Hawke stabs someone in the face I'm sure they aren't thinking "well at least it isn't blood magic."

I think that most people in Thedas believe blood magic is evil because they have spent their lives listening to propaganda from the Chantry. If you get told all your life that something is evil by people in authority you tend to believe it.

[dahoughtonuk]

Wait and find out. So far all blood magic has come from one of two main sources in the games White Chantry, and Dalish. there is a third But the taint may alter things.

My feeling is blood magic is dangerous, but it has become more dangerous due to the beliefs of the White Chantry. Whether this is because it is harder to learn it safely. it is horrendously powerful, of the Circle mage's beliefs have made things more dangerous is open to question.

What is not in question is untrammelled power by anyone is dangerous. Teveinter, Alrik, Vaughn.

Modifié par dahoughtonuk, 18 juin 2012 - 12:36 .

[Treacherous J Slither]

I view blood magic as powerful and very useful. Lore wise it's the best specialization there is. In game however it's obviously nerfed seeing as how you're unable to drain health from your enemies and must instead take it from your allies. That and the fact that normal means of healing no longer work.

That's bs. Blood magic is supposed to be dumb strong so I say do away with the gameplay restrictions and let us get our wrist slitting on!

[MagmaSaiyan]

are guns a good analogy on Blood magic? seems like it to me

[DarkDragon777]

MagmaSaiyan wrote...

are guns a good analogy on Blood magic?

No. Not even a little.

[ObserverStatus]

Blood Magic is inherently evil, but than again, so is conventional magic. The only magic that is acceptable in the eyes of the maker is the enchanting of goods for purchase by non-magic folk.

[Treacherous J Slither]

bobobo878 wrote...

Blood Magic is inherently evil, but than again, so is conventional magic. The only magic that is acceptable in the eyes of the maker is the enchanting of goods for purchase by non-magic folk.

And how would you know what the Maker accepts? Have you spoke to him? Or are you simply regurgitating what others have told you and/or something you've read in some book?

[dragonflight288]

I think bobobob was being sarcastic.

[LobselVith8]

Hurbster wrote...

Well in DA2 when ever anyone slightly pissed off a mage they went RRRRRRRAAAHHH !!! and turned into something icky. I'd say that's a drawback.

Depicting mages as caricatures tends to do that. That's why Kirkwall mages were insane and stupid.

As for blood magic, there are many tales about where it originated: Tevinter claims Dumat taught them, while some believe the Arlathan elves taught humanity blood magic. Gaider said at PAX that phylacteries can be viewed as blood magic. The Joining involves blood and magic. Some Grey Warden mages have used blood magic to defeat the darkspawn. I don't think it's evil.