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[PsyrenY]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Cypher_CS wrote...

He wants someone with access grateful to him... thus loyal. Or more likely to be more loyal.

The VS isn't loyal to Udina.

Yes, but Udina didn't know that. It was a miscalculation on his part, one of many.

[Iakus]

George-Kinsill wrote...

 It's irritating enough to have the VS promoted to approximitely the same rank as you, but how is it that they are recommended to be a Spectre? Right before that they simply got their @ss kicked by Eva and laid in a hospital. To be a Spectre requires a crap ton of training, experiance, intellignece and more. The Turians even have a Spectre training program and hardly even any of them make it. 

Now I don't want to be a VS hater, but what have they done? On Horizon they couldn't even get a Guardian laser properly installed and got frozen by seekers that we had to save them from. On Mars, we had to bail them out for idiotically charging a powerful opponent alone. 

While the VS can be semi-useful, they are useful as a supporting character. In no way do they meet the leadership skills and battle prowess of anyone Spectres seen through the game.

On top of that, Udina seemed to be planning a coup when he recommended the VS. Why would he do that? While they're may have been some confusion between the VS and Shepard as to the activities over the last 2 years, the VS is still part of Shepard's crew. If it weren't for the very akward timing in which Shepard showed up to stop Udina, I doubt that the VS would be suspicious of Shepard in any way.

In any case, the whole situation just seems weird to me. Anyone have any idea as to why this happened? 

The VS is unique.   Not just in ability or in what they've experienced,  but iin  what they represent.  They stood for humanity at a key moment. They're more than just a soldier...they're a symbol.  And we don't know if the Reapers understand fear. But the VS helped killed one of them. They have to respect that.

Modifié par iakus, 11 juin 2012 - 04:59 .

[Mcfly616]

He only picked the VS because the VS had doubts about Shepard.... Period

[MegaBadExample]

Mcfly616 wrote...

He only picked the VS because the VS had doubts about Shepard.... Period

That's not it at all.

Hardly doubt Udina thinks that when he sees Shepard come to visit the VS in the hospital. The VS is capable and 'incorruptible' as Udina says. He knows it and used that against them. Naturally they're going to defend the helpless. Helpless leaders of worlds, even more so.

Besides the VS is one of the best soldiers the Alliance has, the other council members wouldn't let a 'standard' join the Spectres. They all vote on it, so it wasn't just Udina's doing. All the council members have to agree on it, for it to happen.

[TamiBx]

Star fury wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Bioware obviously wanted the VS to be your equal or superior. Which is bullsh*t.

Ugh, Ashley and Kaidan are not equal to Shepard. They still have lower ranks than you. Here you're talking bullsh*t.

Kaidan is a Major and Shepard is a Lt Commander, so technically, he outranks Shepard ever since Horizon...

[MegaBadExample]

TamiBx wrote...

Star fury wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Bioware obviously wanted the VS to be your equal or superior. Which is bullsh*t.

Ugh, Ashley and Kaidan are not equal to Shepard. They still have lower ranks than you. Here you're talking bullsh*t.

Kaidan is a Major and Shepard is a Lt Commander, so technically, he outranks Shepard ever since Horizon...

It's not like it matters. Shepard's in charge, and they like it that way. They still fall in line and take orders when told. Seems to me, they're always looking for Shepard's support or encouragement.

[TamiBx]

MegaBadExample wrote...

It's not like it matters. Shepard's in charge, and they like it that way. They still fall in line and take orders when told. Seems to me, they're always looking for Shepard's support or encouragement.

Oh, I know, I agree with you that it doens't affect the game at all. But I'm just clarifying, since there seems to be some confusion regarding their rank (not whether they listen to Shepard or not, but just their rank alone) 

[Star fury]

TamiBx wrote...

Star fury wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Bioware obviously wanted the VS to be your equal or superior. Which is bullsh*t.

Ugh, Ashley and Kaidan are not equal to Shepard. They still have lower ranks than you. Here you're talking bullsh*t.

Kaidan is a Major and Shepard is a Lt Commander, so technically, he outranks Shepard ever since Horizon...

God, not this again.
Shepard is Commander, it is the naval rank between Lieutenant-Commander and Captain. Naval rank of Commander is equal to the army rank of Lieutenant-Colonel. Kaidan as major still has lower rank than Shepard.
Shepard is not a Lt Commander, Ash is. Shepard is commander. So s/he still has higher rank than both of them. Google it!

MegaBadExample wrote...

It's not like it matters. Shepard's in charge, and they like it that way. They still fall in line and take orders when told. Seems to me, they're always looking for Shepard's support or encouragement.

Ash and Kaidan are Shepard's subordinates as s/he outranks them anyway.

Modifié par Star fury, 11 juin 2012 - 05:19 .

[MysticSpace]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

it works especially well if it's Ashley. Kaiden doesn't buy into the bull**** as easily. If you try to paragon Ashley and explain things to her she will continue to question your authority and will tend not to trust you, but if you tell Ashley to STFU and follow your orders, she trusts you more.

Kind of like in ME2 the argument with Jack and Miranda was easier to solve with renegade points while Tali and Legion's is easier with Paragon.

[BP93]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Ashley went up way too many ranks to be realistic. She went up ONE rank in two years between ME1 and 2. From Gunnery Chief to Operations Chief. Then in the six months following, she went up (according to the Alliance ranking) EIGHT ranks to Lt. Commander. WTF?

Kaidan on the other hand went up two ranks between ME1 and 2 from LT. to Staff Commander. In the six months following, he went up one rank to Major. This sounds more reasonable.

Bioware obviously wanted the VS to be your equal or superior. Which is bullsh*t.

And Tali is an Admiral in ME3. Is that bullsh*t too or are you going to make an exception in this case? Your not biased here at all, right?

The reason the VS becomes a Spectre is because Udina wants someone close enough to Shepard that it would be a more believable story if they went along with it in making Shepard out to be the bad guy. Fortunately if you played your cards right (not being an ass on Mars, hospital visits, romance...) then the VS can see through Udina's BS rather easily so his plan wasn't very well thought out. Since Udina was a Councilor, he could do whatever he wanted as far as Spectre's and there wasn't anything the other Councilors could do about it, much like Anderson reinstating you in ME2...

Modifié par BP93, 11 juin 2012 - 05:34 .

[FlyingSquirrel]

The VS is probably the second-most experienced Alliance soldier in terms of battling the Reapers, so in terms of convincing the rest of the Council to agree, they might be more likely to approve the VS than any other human soldier given the circumstances. In terms of qualifications on paper, there are almost certainly other humans with a more prestigious military or intelligence background, but less of an obvious choice when it comes to fighting Reapers.

Also, I seem to remember a bit of dialogue (I think from either Udina himself, the Citadel news announcer, or the audio reports in the Spectre office) to the effect that it has symbolic value and might help morale in the Alliance. It does seem like the ME1 crew are somewhat well-known, if not necessarily household names.

Modifié par FlyingSquirrel, 11 juin 2012 - 05:40 .

[Cypher_CS]

TamiBx wrote...

Star fury wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Bioware obviously wanted the VS to be your equal or superior. Which is bullsh*t.

Ugh, Ashley and Kaidan are not equal to Shepard. They still have lower ranks than you. Here you're talking bullsh*t.

Kaidan is a Major and Shepard is a Lt Commander, so technically, he outranks Shepard ever since Horizon...

Huh?
How does a Major outrank a Lt' Commander?
It's the same rank!

[Mcfly616]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

He only picked the VS because the VS had doubts about Shepard.... Period

That's not it at all.

Hardly doubt Udina thinks that when he sees Shepard come to visit the VS in the hospital. The VS is capable and 'incorruptible' as Udina says. He knows it and used that against them. Naturally they're going to defend the helpless. Helpless leaders of worlds, even more so.

Besides the VS is one of the best soldiers the Alliance has, the other council members wouldn't let a 'standard' join the Spectres. They all vote on it, so it wasn't just Udina's doing. All the council members have to agree on it, for it to happen.

All of this is simply your way of looking at the situation.....

[shodiswe]

It's the councils support for earth. The other councilors probably made the offer to calm down Udina and the earth ambassador Osoba.

As for the coup, Udina would have pretended to need the VS spectre protection from the cerberus troops, the cerberus troops would have killed the other councilors then retreated pretending they were getting outgunned by the VS and C-sec.

What Udina didn't count on was Shepard return to the citadel. Shepard wasn't expected, shepard commes and goes like a ghost in a stealth ship.

Udina just threw something together in the last min.

the funny thing is I see a lot of Utube clips of Udina trying to frame Shepard for killing the salarian but that never hapens on my playthrougs... Because I didn't kill the council? Or am I too paragon for Udina to even attempt that crap?

Modifié par shodiswe, 11 juin 2012 - 06:57 .

[Apathy1989]

Kaiden probably deserved to be a spectre, he seemed to do stuff while Shepard was dead.

Ash on the other hand, seems to have done nothing. I don't understand why she got promoted.

[Patchwork]

Star fury wrote...

God, not this again.

Exactly my thoughts. Why don't you try going to Google and typing in the words 'Mass Effect Alliance ranks' and see what turns up.

Actually let me save you some time.

In ascending order of responsibility, the ranks of the Alliance are:
ENLISTED

• Serviceman 3rd class/Private 2nd class
• Serviceman 2nd class/Private 1st class
• Serviceman 1st class/Corporal

NCOs

• Service Chief
• Gunnery Chief
• Operations Chief

OFFICERS

• 2nd Lieutenant
• 1st Lieutenant
• Staff Lieutenant
• Lieutenant Commander
• Staff Commander
• Captain/Major
• Rear Admiral/General
• Admiral
• Fleet Admiral

[capn233]

Cypher_CS wrote...

Huh?
How does a Major outrank a Lt' Commander?
It's the same rank!

That would be true if you were talking about the US Military.  However, the ME1 codex listed the ranks in the Systems Alliance and Major was equivalent to Captain.

In any event, it seems like either the writers for ME3 have "retconned" this rank structure such that Maj is indeed equivalent to Lt Cmdr, or they simply didn't realize that those were the ranks established in the first game.

Modifié par capn233, 11 juin 2012 - 07:12 .

[Cypher_CS]

More like the writers of ME1 didn't pay attention.

You can't just arbitrarily decide that Major is equivalent to Naval Captain!
It doesn't work that way.
Hell, these ranks are more or less standard throughout the world today, be it US military, Chinese military or Iranian military.
Major is the 4th Officer rank, as is Lt' Commander (former Army/AF, latter Navy) .
2nd Lt - Ensign
1st Lt - Lt J.G.
Captain - Lt
Major - Lt' Commander
Lt' Colonel - Commander
Colonel - Captain
Brigadier - RAdm

etc'

[MegaBadExample]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

He only picked the VS because the VS had doubts about Shepard.... Period

That's not it at all.

Hardly doubt Udina thinks that when he sees Shepard come to visit the VS in the hospital. The VS is capable and 'incorruptible' as Udina says. He knows it and used that against them. Naturally they're going to defend the helpless. Helpless leaders of worlds, even more so.

Besides the VS is one of the best soldiers the Alliance has, the other council members wouldn't let a 'standard' join the Spectres. They all vote on it, so it wasn't just Udina's doing. All the council members have to agree on it, for it to happen.

All of this is simply your way of looking at the situation.....

Udina didn't pick the VS because of doubts. Please, Udina knows the VS worships Shepard as a leader and owes everything to him. You're wrong.

[Joolazoo]

Kaidan/ashley are some of the best soldiers in the galaxy....they may have annoying characters, but that doesn't change the fact that Ashley is one of the most talented soldiers in the alliance...or else it would have been kind of hard for her to survive Shepards mission. The evidence of everyone who is on shepards crew battle ability is the fact that they go into battle with Shepard and don't get ripped apart by the horrible odds.

[Mcfly616]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

He only picked the VS because the VS had doubts about Shepard.... Period

That's not it at all.

Hardly doubt Udina thinks that when he sees Shepard come to visit the VS in the hospital. The VS is capable and 'incorruptible' as Udina says. He knows it and used that against them. Naturally they're going to defend the helpless. Helpless leaders of worlds, even more so.

Besides the VS is one of the best soldiers the Alliance has, the other council members wouldn't let a 'standard' join the Spectres. They all vote on it, so it wasn't just Udina's doing. All the council members have to agree on it, for it to happen.

All of this is simply your way of looking at the situation.....

Udina didn't pick the VS because of doubts. Please, Udina knows the VS worships Shepard as a leader and owes everything to him. You're wrong.

I'm wrong? Lol no....another one of your "opinions".....you have no knowledge of Udina's personal motivations and neither do I......all is left up to "interpretation".....or "speculation(whatever you prefer)....


And if you don't know that the VS has their doubts about Shepard(and his connections to Cerberus) maybe you should play ME3 again.....if you've even played it at all, that is.....

It would seem you haven't.....or you were just wearing a blindfold and ear-muffs during every conversation with the VS.....






Keep trying though buddy....

Modifié par Mcfly616, 11 juin 2012 - 07:39 .

[Cypher_CS]

Your arrogant and condescending approach won't really fly, Mc....

[Mcfly616]

Cypher_CS wrote...

Your arrogant and condescending approach won't really fly, Mc....

Haha really? Considering I'm not the one pointing fingers and saying who's WRONG, maybe you should re--read what has been said.....otherwise, I could really care less about what does and doesnt "fly" for you

[MegaBadExample]

@Mcfly; Same goes for you.

If you think Udina choose to make the VS solely because of doubts about Shepard. You are wrong. There is more to it than that. Udina needs an agent, and the VS is the nearest most experienced human available, is incorruptible, has leadership experience, and is capable enough in a fight. Besides, Udina wouldn't be as stupid enough to think that the soldier who ditched the Alliance, committed mutiny, and followed Shepard to Ilos, would take his (a politician's) word over their Commander's without a clear reason to do so. It's idiotic, and he wouldn't put all his eggs in that basket. 

And yes, I have played the game. I know the the VS has doubts and wants questions on mars, understandably, but they trust Shepard enough to work with him/her during that mission - they want to. Taking Shepard’s word and shooting Udina proves their trust. The whole coup is a trust test.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 11 juin 2012 - 07:57 .

[jojon2se]

No matter what we may feel about the two, they do fit the "unquestioning follower type" slot rather nicely and Ambassador Palpat...Udina knows a thing or two about manipulating impressionables (ref: Bailey   EDIT: Also, Ash's resentment if you tell her it's about time she got her own command (maybe Eden Prime still haunts her, mind...?)).

Modifié par jojon2se, 11 juin 2012 - 08:02 .