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[MegaBadExample]

jojon2se wrote...

No matter what we may feel about the two, they do fit the "unquestioning follower type" slot rather nicely and Ambassador Palpat...Udina knows a thing or two about manipulating impressionables (ref: Bailey   EDIT: Also, Ash's resentment if you tell her it's about time she got her own command (maybe Eden Prime still haunts her, mind...?)).

The VS is one of the few characters who don’t follow blindly. Ashley even more so, she's always questioning Shepard's decisions to make sure you're not leading her astray. She likes to know what she's doing, and is it the right thing.

I agree on the manipulating. Udina sure knows how to worm around people.

Eden Prime does still haunt her mind, but I think she's fine with leading. She does good work if you send her off with Hackett, and apparently she's been training recruits.

[Mcfly616]

MegaBadExample wrote...

@Mcfly; Same goes for you.

If you think Udina choose to make the VS solely because of doubts about Shepard. You are wrong. There is more to it than that. Udina needs an agent, and the VS is the nearest most experienced human available, is incorruptible, has leadership experience, and is capable enough in a fight. Besides, Udina wouldn't be as stupid enough to think that the soldier who ditched the Alliance, committed mutiny, and followed Shepard to Ilos, would take his (a politician's) word over their Commander's without a clear reason to do so. It's idiotic, and he wouldn't put all his eggs in that basket. 

And yes, I have played the game. I know the the VS has doubts and wants questions on mars, understandably, but they trust Shepard enough to work with him/her during that mission - they want to. Taking Shepard’s word and shooting Udina proves their trust. The whole coup is a trust test.

There you go again....no.....I am not wrong.....I'm simply pointed out one of the reasons that Udina picks the VS.....Udina has his own motivations.....needs the most capable soldier he can find.....probably someone he's familiar with......and go figure, the VS is all of these things.....

But most importantly, the VS' undying loyalty in Shepard is called into question repeatedly throughout the first half of the game.....oh and just to put the nail, why do you really think Bioware throws you into a stand off with the VS during the coup? Why would Bioware force the player to have to convince the VS?! Ohhhh....because they had doubts about Shepard.....

And Udina made a play on the VS' doubts, and extended an olive branch in the form of a Spectre induction, to try make it work to his advantage....to try to gain the loyalty of the VS, while their loyalty to Shepard was questionable.....Hence why you need to convince them to let you stop Udina.....


Keep thinking your right.....and I'm wrong....whatever you "think"......doesn't change the facts...n

[NRieh]

@Ser Bard thanx for posting this, I got tired about "shepard commander" BS. People don't rewad codex, people don't read wikis, but they try to argue, using RL military rankings which do NOT match MEU.

Another point is that I really hate people treating VS as ONE character. I know we should thank ME2 for that, where all Kaidan\\Ash did were smiling from a photo (if romanced in ME). And sharing same Horizon cut (in which L2 biotic Kaidan Alenko shoots things with Avenger without even trying to put his barrier on, same as supa troopa Ashley). It's just stupid to ask why did Undina chose VS, because there are TWO of them, they ARE different, in many ways.

[Made Nightwing]

McFly. Just to point something out: Unless the dev says it, it's not a fact. Don't try and pretend that anything you say about the game is 'fact'.

[Mcfly616]

Do you really think Liara or Miranda or Garrus or Tali would've held a gun to Shepard, in defense of Udina....even for a split second(as the VS did)???!


Hell NO. If any of those characters were guarding Udina, and Shep bursted through the door, they'd be like: do your thing Commander.....


Now do you really think Udina wasn't using the VS' doubts to his advantage? Come on......common sense

[Mcfly616]

Made Nightwing wrote...

McFly. Just to point something out: Unless the dev says it, it's not a fact. Don't try and pretend that anything you say about the game is 'fact'.

Yet another person that apparently jumps in without reading the entire convo....

Maybe you should take what you said to me, and direct it towards someone else.....as I clearly stated on page 2 "nobody knows what goes on in Udina's head or his exact motivations, it is all left up to interpretation....or speculation"


Again...I'm not the one pointing fingers and saying who's right or wrong(That is a Fact, by the way)


So, read up.....or jump off my quad....

[Made Nightwing]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Do you really think Liara or Miranda or Garrus or Tali would've held a gun to Shepard, in defense of Udina....even for a split second(as the VS did)???!


Hell NO. If any of those characters were guarding Udina, and Shep bursted through the door, they'd be like: do your thing Commander.....


Now do you really think Udina wasn't using the VS' doubts to his advantage? Come on......common sense

Miranda is a terrorist who's spent most of her life going against the Alliance. The rest are aliens and don't care. None are comparable.

[MegaBadExample]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

@Mcfly; Same goes for you.

If you think Udina choose to make the VS solely because of doubts about Shepard. You are wrong. There is more to it than that. Udina needs an agent, and the VS is the nearest most experienced human available, is incorruptible, has leadership experience, and is capable enough in a fight. Besides, Udina wouldn't be as stupid enough to think that the soldier who ditched the Alliance, committed mutiny, and followed Shepard to Ilos, would take his (a politician's) word over their Commander's without a clear reason to do so. It's idiotic, and he wouldn't put all his eggs in that basket. 

And yes, I have played the game. I know the the VS has doubts and wants questions on mars, understandably, but they trust Shepard enough to work with him/her during that mission - they want to. Taking Shepard’s word and shooting Udina proves their trust. The whole coup is a trust test.

There you go again....no.....I am not wrong.....I'm simply pointed out one of the reasons that Udina picks the VS.....Udina has his own motivations.....needs the most capable soldier he can find.....probably someone he's familiar with......and go figure, the VS is all of these things.....

But most importantly, the VS' undying loyalty in Shepard is called into question repeatedly throughout the first half of the game.....oh and just to put the nail, why do you really think Bioware throws you into a stand off with the VS during the coup? Why would Bioware force the player to have to convince the VS?! Ohhhh....because they had doubts about Shepard.....

And Udina made a play on the VS' doubts, and extended an olive branch in the form of a Spectre induction, to try make it work to his advantage....to try to gain the loyalty of the VS, while their loyalty to Shepard was questionable.....Hence why you need to convince them to let you stop Udina.....


Keep thinking your right.....and I'm wrong....whatever you "think"......doesn't change the facts...n

Then why did you say “He only picked the VS because the VS had doubts about Shepard.... Period.” - That is wrong.

You say "repeatedly" I say twice. The VS calmly asked two questions on Mars. After Mars, that's it. You get hospital scenes with them, and you can go into the coup and it could end up being a breeze.

"Why do you think Bioware through you into a stand off with the VS?" As I've said before, it's a trust test. If the VS takes Shepard’s word in THAT situation (forget about Shepad pointing a gun at a supposedly innocent/unarmed council member), and stands down = shows trust. Doesn't = no trust. It's one of the few things where your decisions matter.

I didn't need to convince the VS during the coup. They lowered their gun without persuasion.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 11 juin 2012 - 08:25 .

[nos_astra]

jojon2se wrote...
No matter what we may feel about the two, they do fit the "unquestioning follower type" slot rather nicely and Ambassador Palpat...Udina knows a thing or two about manipulating impressionables (ref: Bailey   EDIT: Also, Ash's resentment if you tell her it's about time she got her own command (maybe Eden Prime still haunts her, mind...?)).

How so?

Mutiny in ME1.
Questioning Shepard in ME2 and ME3.

I don't see how they fit the "unquestioning follower slot" better than anyone else. Being with the Alliance doesn't mean they don't think or don't question. It's not like the game follows their story or explains their reasons to you.

Modifié par klarabella, 11 juin 2012 - 08:41 .

[Mcfly616]

MegaBadExample: you saw my second post.....my first post is on page one.....

Sorry for the misunderstanding.....but the way the second post was worded, could've been easily misunderstood, as to what I meant by it....


Obviously Udina had his reasons for protection.....and other motivations.....my second post was just simply saying that the "doubt" in the mind of the VS pertaining to Shepard, was what put Udina's decision over the edge.....


Udina is going to make a coup attempt.....he needs someone loyal to humanity, an exceptional soldier, someone familiar.....the VS is all of these things....and best of all they have doubts about Shepard.

Yeah....that Shepard.....the one person posing the biggest threat to Udina's coup attempt.....


I also said in my earlier posts that everything is left up to interpretation.

But the VS having doubts in Shepard is not up for debate......it is plainly shown on screen.....and No.....not Just on Mars......

On Mars.....in the hospital.....during the coup....

[nos_astra]

Mcfly616 wrote...
Do you really think Liara or Miranda or Garrus or Tali would've held a gun to Shepard, in defense of Udina....even for a split second(as the VS did)???!

Hell NO. If any of those characters were guarding Udina, and Shep bursted through the door, they'd be like: do your thing Commander.....

Now do you really think Udina wasn't using the VS' doubts to his advantage? Come on......common sense

Because they unquestioningly follow Shepard and whatever Shepard does is totally awesome and doesn't need to be explained at all?

[MegaBadExample]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaBadExample: you saw my second post.....my first post is on page one.....

Sorry for the misunderstanding.....but the way the second post was worded, could've been easily misunderstood, as to what I meant by it....


Obviously Udina had his reasons for protection.....and other motivations.....my second post was just simply saying that the "doubt" in the mind of the VS pertaining to Shepard, was what put Udina's decision over the edge.....


Udina is going to make a coup attempt.....he needs someone loyal to humanity, an exceptional soldier, someone familiar.....the VS is all of these things....and best of all they have doubts about Shepard.

Yeah....that Shepard.....the one person posing the biggest threat to Udina's coup attempt.....


I also said in my earlier posts that everything is left up to interpretation.

But the VS having doubts in Shepard is not up for debate......it is plainly shown on screen.....and No.....not Just on Mars......

On Mars.....in the hospital.....during the coup....

I saw no doubts in the hospital. Then again, every playthrough is different.

Take away the doubts about Shepard then. Would Udina still make the VS a spectre? Yes, of course. He needs a human agent, and the VS is perfect, capable and is available for the job.

The VS was expecting Cerberus running through the door, pointing a gun at them - not Shepard. The VS didn’t hold their gun on Shepard in defence of Udina, it was in defence of the WHOLE council, you know the leaders of half the galaxy? In that situation, with those lives on the line, they’ve got to be absolutely sure in Shepard because they can't make a mistake.

Even if Shepard is still pointing a gun - they can still stand down. That spells trust to me.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 11 juin 2012 - 08:47 .

[Mcfly616]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Do you really think Liara or Miranda or Garrus or Tali would've held a gun to Shepard, in defense of Udina....even for a split second(as the VS did)???!


Hell NO. If any of those characters were guarding Udina, and Shep bursted through the door, they'd be like: do your thing Commander.....


Now do you really think Udina wasn't using the VS' doubts to his advantage? Come on......common sense

Miranda is a terrorist who's spent most of her life going against the Alliance. The rest are aliens and don't care. None are comparable.

You're right....for all the reasons you listed, they are not comparable.....

Which was exactly my point, by the way

And you missed the most important reason why.....they are all unquestionably loyal to Shepard.....

By the time ME3 rolls around, the only squad members that have questionable loyalty in Shepard are the VS.....so no...they are not comparable.....making my point pretty relevant

[Joolazoo]

klarabella wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
Do you really think Liara or Miranda or Garrus or Tali would've held a gun to Shepard, in defense of Udina....even for a split second(as the VS did)???!

Hell NO. If any of those characters were guarding Udina, and Shep bursted through the door, they'd be like: do your thing Commander.....

Now do you really think Udina wasn't using the VS' doubts to his advantage? Come on......common sense

Because they unquestioningly follow Shepard and whatever Shepard does is totally awesome and doesn't need to be explained at all?

Sorry, but you act like not trusting someone who is almost always right is somehow a virtue. If anyone in the galaxy has earned a little trust, especially from the VS, it''s shepard.

Also, it makes much more sense for Udina to appoint the VS as a spectre so he has a bodyguard during the cerberus coup, not because he wants to play mind games with Shepard. He had no way of knowing that Shepard would interfere or that he would even be in the posiiton to.

Modifié par Joolazoo, 11 juin 2012 - 08:47 .

[Mcfly616]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaBadExample: you saw my second post.....my first post is on page one.....

Sorry for the misunderstanding.....but the way the second post was worded, could've been easily misunderstood, as to what I meant by it....


Obviously Udina had his reasons for protection.....and other motivations.....my second post was just simply saying that the "doubt" in the mind of the VS pertaining to Shepard, was what put Udina's decision over the edge.....


Udina is going to make a coup attempt.....he needs someone loyal to humanity, an exceptional soldier, someone familiar.....the VS is all of these things....and best of all they have doubts about Shepard.

Yeah....that Shepard.....the one person posing the biggest threat to Udina's coup attempt.....


I also said in my earlier posts that everything is left up to interpretation.

But the VS having doubts in Shepard is not up for debate......it is plainly shown on screen.....and No.....not Just on Mars......

On Mars.....in the hospital.....during the coup....

I saw no doubts in the hospital. Then again, every playthrough is different.

Take away the doubts about Shepard then. Would Udina still make the VS a spectre? Yes, of course. He needs a human agent, and the VS is perfect, capable and is available for the job.

The VS was expecting Cerberus running through the door, pointing a gun at them - not Shepard. The VS didn’t hold their gun on Shepard in defence of Udina, it was in defence of the WHOLE council, you know the leaders of half the galaxy? In that situation, with those lives on the line, they’ve got to be absolutely sure in Shepard because they can't make a mistake.

Even if Shepard is still pointing a gun - they can still stand down. That’s spells trust to me.

Do I think the VS is a worthy Spectre? Ofcourse.....theyre exceptional combatants with good intentions(they cant all be Shepard after all)....but am I sure that Udina would've picked them regardless of their loyalty? I can't say.....nobody can(one of those things left up for interpretation).....but I do feel that the VS questionable loyalty, definitely played a part in Udina's decision(imo)

Edit: and yes, the VS is questionable of you and brings it up, while theyre in the hospital. However, i do concur. Conversations can vary with each playthrough.....and I've never romanced the VS(idk if that plays a part in the conversation)

Modifié par Mcfly616, 11 juin 2012 - 08:52 .

[Mcfly616]

Joolazoo wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
Do you really think Liara or Miranda or Garrus or Tali would've held a gun to Shepard, in defense of Udina....even for a split second(as the VS did)???!

Hell NO. If any of those characters were guarding Udina, and Shep bursted through the door, they'd be like: do your thing Commander.....

Now do you really think Udina wasn't using the VS' doubts to his advantage? Come on......common sense

Because they unquestioningly follow Shepard and whatever Shepard does is totally awesome and doesn't need to be explained at all?

Sorry, but you act like not trusting someone who is almost always right is somehow a virtue. If anyone in the galaxy has earned a little trust, especially from the VS, it''s shepard.

Also, it makes much more sense for Udina to appoint the VS as a spectre so he has a bodyguard during the cerberus coup, not because he wants to play mind games with Shepard. He had no way of knowing that Shepard would interfere or that he would even be in the posiiton to.

I'm sorry....was this directed towards me? I can't tell....either way, I never said Udina was playing mind games.....I said the VS' loyalty was questionable, and that Udina quite possibly took that into account when.making his decision.....I agree that VS owes their trust to Shepard however

[MegaBadExample]

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaBadExample: you saw my second post.....my first post is on page one.....

Sorry for the misunderstanding.....but the way the second post was worded, could've been easily misunderstood, as to what I meant by it....


Obviously Udina had his reasons for protection.....and other motivations.....my second post was just simply saying that the "doubt" in the mind of the VS pertaining to Shepard, was what put Udina's decision over the edge.....


Udina is going to make a coup attempt.....he needs someone loyal to humanity, an exceptional soldier, someone familiar.....the VS is all of these things....and best of all they have doubts about Shepard.

Yeah....that Shepard.....the one person posing the biggest threat to Udina's coup attempt.....


I also said in my earlier posts that everything is left up to interpretation.

But the VS having doubts in Shepard is not up for debate......it is plainly shown on screen.....and No.....not Just on Mars......

On Mars.....in the hospital.....during the coup....

I saw no doubts in the hospital. Then again, every playthrough is different.

Take away the doubts about Shepard then. Would Udina still make the VS a spectre? Yes, of course. He needs a human agent, and the VS is perfect, capable and is available for the job.

The VS was expecting Cerberus running through the door, pointing a gun at them - not Shepard. The VS didn’t hold their gun on Shepard in defence of Udina, it was in defence of the WHOLE council, you know the leaders of half the galaxy? In that situation, with those lives on the line, they’ve got to be absolutely sure in Shepard because they can't make a mistake.

Even if Shepard is still pointing a gun - they can still stand down. That’s spells trust to me.

Do I think the VS is a worthy Spectre? Ofcourse.....theyre exceptional combatants with good intentions(they cant all be Shepard after all)....but am I sure that Udina would've picked them regardless of their loyalty? I can't say.....nobody can(one of those things left up for interpretation).....but I do feel that the VS questionable loyalty, definitely played a part in Udina's decision(imo)

Edit: and yes, the VS is questionable of you and brings it up, while theyre in the hospital. However, i do concur. Conversations can vary with each playthrough.....and I've never romanced the VS(idk if that plays a part in the conversation)

Well, that's where I disagree with you. As Joolazoo said, "Also, it makes much more sense for Udina to appoint the VS as a spectre so he has a bodyguard during the cerberus coup, not because he wants to play mind games with Shepard. He had no way of knowing that Shepard would interfere or that he would even be in the posiiton to."

Also for other reasons as well, which I said.

And yes, most conversations with the VS are different if you romance them. Some are bad if you cheat, but that's another topic altogether.

[nos_astra]

Joolazoo wrote...
Sorry, but you act like not trusting someone who is almost always right is somehow a virtue. If anyone in the galaxy has earned a little trust, especially from the VS, it''s shepard.

I don't see what Shepard has done that deserves blind trust. Trust that Shepard does what he thinks is necessary to reach the ultimate goal of defeating the Reapers, yes. But you can still disagree with Shepard's methods, like working with Cerberus.

The VS does trust Shepard enough to listen and then lower their gun, even turn around and shoot Udina themselves. Their job was to protect the Council, the Council is under attack, Udina is a member of the Council. I'm fairly sure the  job description doesn't include stepping aside so your former commander can shoot a member of the Council without at least asking what the hell is going on before you lower your gun.

This also means anyone with half a brain would habe reacted like the VS had (some even less trusting, actually), unless they had a real bad case of hero worship.

Modifié par klarabella, 11 juin 2012 - 09:15 .

[Shallyah]

Possibly others said it, but since I can't be bothered to read the three pages of posts...

Udina possibly wants his personal guard to be:

1) The best of the best.
2) Have a grade of misstrust towards Shepard after him being with Cerberus.
3) At the same time, be close enough to Shepard so that Shepard will think twice before shooting.

Virmire Survivor is perfect for this.

Modifié par Shallyah, 11 juin 2012 - 09:14 .

[Mcfly616]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

MegaBadExample: you saw my second post.....my first post is on page one.....

Sorry for the misunderstanding.....but the way the second post was worded, could've been easily misunderstood, as to what I meant by it....


Obviously Udina had his reasons for protection.....and other motivations.....my second post was just simply saying that the "doubt" in the mind of the VS pertaining to Shepard, was what put Udina's decision over the edge.....


Udina is going to make a coup attempt.....he needs someone loyal to humanity, an exceptional soldier, someone familiar.....the VS is all of these things....and best of all they have doubts about Shepard.

Yeah....that Shepard.....the one person posing the biggest threat to Udina's coup attempt.....


I also said in my earlier posts that everything is left up to interpretation.

But the VS having doubts in Shepard is not up for debate......it is plainly shown on screen.....and No.....not Just on Mars......

On Mars.....in the hospital.....during the coup....

I saw no doubts in the hospital. Then again, every playthrough is different.

Take away the doubts about Shepard then. Would Udina still make the VS a spectre? Yes, of course. He needs a human agent, and the VS is perfect, capable and is available for the job.

The VS was expecting Cerberus running through the door, pointing a gun at them - not Shepard. The VS didn’t hold their gun on Shepard in defence of Udina, it was in defence of the WHOLE council, you know the leaders of half the galaxy? In that situation, with those lives on the line, they’ve got to be absolutely sure in Shepard because they can't make a mistake.

Even if Shepard is still pointing a gun - they can still stand down. That’s spells trust to me.

Do I think the VS is a worthy Spectre? Ofcourse.....theyre exceptional combatants with good intentions(they cant all be Shepard after all)....but am I sure that Udina would've picked them regardless of their loyalty? I can't say.....nobody can(one of those things left up for interpretation).....but I do feel that the VS questionable loyalty, definitely played a part in Udina's decision(imo)

Edit: and yes, the VS is questionable of you and brings it up, while theyre in the hospital. However, i do concur. Conversations can vary with each playthrough.....and I've never romanced the VS(idk if that plays a part in the conversation)

Well, that's where I disagree with you. As Joolazoo said, "Also, it makes much more sense for Udina to appoint the VS as a spectre so he has a bodyguard during the cerberus coup, not because he wants to play mind games with Shepard. He had no way of knowing that Shepard would interfere or that he would even be in the posiiton to."

Also for other reasons as well, which I said.

And yes, most conversations with the VS are different if you romance them. Some are bad if you cheat, but that's another topic altogether.

For whatever reason, you're not seeing the text when I say Udina has many reasons.....I KNOW Udina needs "protection"aka a bodyguard.....Which I've stated numerous times throughout this thread.....

All I said was that the VS loyalty played a part in the decision(get it? a "part")......it wasn't THE.reason......but it was there.....and once again(as I've stated before) I never said Udina was playing "mind games"

[Mcfly616]

Shallyah wrote...

Possibly others said it, but since I can't be bothered to read the three pages of posts...

Udina possibly wants his personal guard to be:

1) The best of the best.
2) Have a grade of misstrust towards Shepard after him being with Cerberus.
3) At the same time, be close enough to Shepard so that Shepard will think twice before shooting.

Virmire Survivor is perfect for this.

This....this is exactly what I've been stating for 3 pages.....

[Robhuzz]

TheClonesLegacy wrote...

Udina wanted to have the VS trust him more than Shepard, for when the Cerberus attack on the Citadel happened,
that's the theory I've heard anyway

Basically this. Since spectres are supposed to be the agents of the council, he probably thought promoting ashley/kaiden to spectre would give him a personal bodyguard for when Cerberus attacked the station, just in case something went wrong and he would be suspected.

And like others have said: There may be some tension between them but even Shepard (apart from the evil ones) would think twice before simply shooting the VS.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 11 juin 2012 - 09:43 .

[Ageless Face]

George-Kinsill wrote...

 It's irritating enough to have the VS promoted to approximitely the same rank as you, but how is it that they are recommended to be a Spectre? Right before that they simply got their @ss kicked by Eva and laid in a hospital. To be a Spectre requires a crap ton of training, experiance, intellignece and more. The Turians even have a Spectre training program and hardly even any of them make it. 

 

You know, it's kind of make sense that someone that worked more time in the Alliance than Shepard and didn't betray the Alliance will be in a higher rank than Shepard.

They got kicked by Eva because she was closer to the VS, and s/he was not perpared enough. Even then Kaidan/Ashley were quick enough to push Liara away to save her and fire a few shots at Eva. Shepard had much more time to react than Kaidan/Ashley, but even then Shepard can die if you didn't shoot well enough.

 
Now I don't want to be a VS hater, but what have they done? On Horizon they couldn't even get a Guardian laser properly installed and got frozen by seekers that we had to save them from. On Mars, we had to bail them out for idiotically charging a powerful opponent alone. 

  

Need I remind you that Ashley and Kaidan DIDN"T know about the collectors? And didn't have the countermeasure against the swarms that Shepard had from Mordin? Or that Kadian and Ashley didn't have an AI (EDI) by their side to take care of the Gardian Laser?

  
While the VS can be semi-useful, they are useful as a supporting character. In no way do they meet the leadership skills and battle prowess of anyone Spectres seen through the game.

  

Garrus is also a supporting squadmate. That didn't stop him from taking the gangs in Omega, And he was a spectre candidate himslef. Jack is one of the most powerfull bioitics, and she is a Support. Same for pretty much every other character, but I won't get into it now. Anyway, every squad memeber is only a support, but described as a badass. You can't play a game in which all the squad memeber are as good as Shepard.

Kaidan, BTW , was in command of a biotic unit. He would lead just fine. Ashley is a very capable soldier. She would also have no problem, even operating alone. And both of them are sole survivers. Shepard can be listed as a spectre candidate for being a sole survivor.

   
On top of that, Udina seemed to be planning a coup when he recommended the VS. Why would he do that? While they're may have been some confusion between the VS and Shepard as to the activities over the last 2 years, the VS is still part of Shepard's crew. If it weren't for the very akward timing in which Shepard showed up to stop Udina, I doubt that the VS would be suspicious of Shepard in any way.
 

   

Why does it matter? Udina would not just take Kaidan and Ashley because the mistrust towards Shepard. Udina had no idea Shepard would even interfere. And you can't say Udina tried to cover everything, because it's not very hard for Shepard to convince Kaidan and Ashley to shoot Udina.

[2Shepards]

TamiBx wrote...

Star fury wrote...

InHarmsWay wrote...

Bioware obviously wanted the VS to be your equal or superior. Which is bullsh*t.

Ugh, Ashley and Kaidan are not equal to Shepard. They still have lower ranks than you. Here you're talking bullsh*t.

Kaidan is a Major and Shepard is a Lt Commander, so technically, he outranks Shepard ever since Horizon...

Alliance mixes Navy and Army ranks, if we go by Navy ranks, since the gang does missions from a ship, there are no Majors.

 Kaiden is Staff Lieutenant, then promoted to Staff Commander

Modifié par 2Shepards, 11 juin 2012 - 10:10 .

[jeweledleah]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Do you really think Liara or Miranda or Garrus or Tali would've held a gun to Shepard, in defense of Udina....even for a split second(as the VS did)???!


Hell NO. If any of those characters were guarding Udina, and Shep bursted through the door, they'd be like: do your thing Commander.....


Now do you really think Udina wasn't using the VS' doubts to his advantage? Come on......common sense

and that would be why those people are not chosen to be spectres.

the point of spectres is to be loyal to the council.  not individuals.
Shepard was chose originaly becasue Shepard was loyal to the alliance.  they could becouncil's arm and still retain that loyalty to the alliance.

and then Cerberus happened. and Shepard lost a lot of the trust with the very organizations they were supposed to represed, to be loyal to.

Kaidan and Ashley REMAINED loyal to the alliance.  their loyalty is major reason why they were selected. performance is another. both are highly decorated, led their own units prior to Normandy assignment and chances are either one could be next in line, probably didn't make the cut due to Ashley's family history and Kaidan's more volatile implant, and that was before the events of the first and second game.

their loyalty or lack of thereoff to Shepard?  I doubt that it was major concideration... or concidered at all.

especialy since Shepard... WOULD have to shoot them if they didn't stand down?  why?  to do the very job VS was trying to do.  protect the council.  Shepard just knows something about Udina that VS doesn't, and it shows VS's measure of trust that they concider Shepard's word and question Udina's  - councilor's involvement.