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[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Maric has the requisite beard of awesomeness, so he has to be a good king.

Ha, he's an imbecile like the rest of his family. Including Calenhad I might add.

To you pretty much anyone in Ferelden is an imbecile these days, KOP.

No. Eamon isn't. Anora isn't. Uldred wasn't until he screwed up because of Wynne's idiocy. Avernus isn't (). Sergeant Kylon. Master Ignacio. Seneschal Varel, Commander Garavel....etc etc. No Ferelden had decent people.

Kirkwall on the otherhand.  

I was joking.

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

[No. Eamon isn't. Anora isn't. Uldred wasn't until he screwed up because of Wynne's idiocy. Avernus isn't (). Sergeant Kylon. Master Ignacio. Seneschal Varel, Commander Garavel....etc etc. No Ferelden had decent people.

Kirkwall on the otherhand.  

Ignacio's an Antivan

And man, you can still see the sparks of DAII's more political-oriented plot throughout the game.

But that's neither here nor there.

Tis true, I still love Loghain despite everything.

And no I haven't played any jrpg.

You'd like FFXII, if for no other reason then its political story and the aforementioned character, Vayne Solidor.

You might even like Vayne's brother, who's a political genius at the age of 12. Or was it 14? Can't remember.

It may not allow you to choose how the story pans out, but it does have a pretty great political story. Even when supernatural elements come to play, the game doesn't suffer from it like you see in some other games made by various developers.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 juin 2012 - 05:42 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
But was it known, outside of Kirkwall, that Meredith was in full control of the city-state? I doubt it, because then Cassandra would've known that as well.

Yes it's known from the very beginning. When Leandra suggested going to Kirkwall, Hawke can say it's a Templar bastion. Furthermore I doubt Alistair didn't know that the Templars made a coup d'Etat and put in place a puppet. If he didn't, then he is incompetent.

Cassandra is an idiot, who comes to idiotic conclusions. Plus she is victim of a very poorly executed flash back narrative.

And indeed, Hawke is a Fereldan Champion. Which means that he can influence things in favor of Ferelden. And possibly gain the aid of Starkhaven as well. Alistair can gain at the very least Starkhaven's aid, which is more aid then he originally had.

Even if we assume that this was Alistair's plan, he does nothing about it. Had he provided some form of aid to Hawke and assistance in forming a coalition against Meredith, then I would have considered it a smart move and would have excused Alistair for not knowing that Hawke is a complete idiot who can't do ****. But he didn't.

Like I said, it's a meaningless cameo.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
And man, you can still see the sparks of DAII's more political-oriented plot throughout the game.

Good one.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
And man, you can still see the sparks of DAII's more political-oriented plot throughout the game.

Good one.

Whether is bad politics or badly written politics, DAII is more political-oriented than DAO. Which ain't hard.:happy:

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
Whether is bad politics or badly written politics, DAII is more political-oriented than DAO. Which ain't hard.:happy:

In terms of main plot (as in the Blight), yes. But in terms of general story and everything in it, nope.

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes it's known from the very beginning. When Leandra suggested going to Kirkwall, Hawke can say it's a Templar bastion. Furthermore I doubt Alistair didn't know that the Templars made a coup d'Etat and put in place a puppet. If he didn't, then he is incompetent.

Cassandra is an idiot, who comes to idiotic conclusions. Plus she is victim of a very poorly executed flash back narrative.

Templar bastion really just means it's full of Templars, not that it's controlled by them. Unless he actually says it's controlled by them in some personality tone, in which case I'm mistaken. Haven't played DAII in months now.

But actually, you're right about Cassandra on both fronts.

Even if we assume that this was Alistair's plan, he does nothing about it. Had he provided some form of aid to Hawke and assistance in forming a coalition against Meredith, then I would have considered it a smart move and would have excused Alistair for not knowing that Hawke is a complete idiot who can't do ****. But he didn't.

Fair point.

Like I said, it's a meaningless cameo.

You're crushing my dreams, man.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 juin 2012 - 05:48 .

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
And man, you can still see the sparks of DAII's more political-oriented plot throughout the game.

Good one.

Ha.

You can though. It requires some massive digging, along with a jackhammer and maybe some acid to get away at the concrete covering it up, but it's there.

Not as well done as DAO did their general story though, but it's there. In small, almost nonexistant shades.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Templar bastion really just means it's full of Templars, not that it's controlled by them.

Those who own the methods of violence have power.

Which is why it's also mindboggling that the Arishok was negotiating with Dumar and seemingly completely ignored Meredith. Even when the main instigators were from the Chantry.

[Persephone]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Behead Loghain, that is the only way to save Ferelden....

A little obsessed with that, aren't ya?

Ferelden does wonderfully well with him alive. Or with him killing the Archdemon.<_<

[Mr.House]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Behead Loghain, that is the only way to save Ferelden....

Says the person who would leave a group of people if they did not get something they wanted.

[TEWR]

 

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 juin 2012 - 05:52 .

[TEWR]

Which is why it's also mindboggling that the Arishok was negotiating with Dumar and seemingly completely ignored Meredith. Even when the main instigators were from the Chantry.

Agreed. I've often argued that he should've also been dealing with her, since we the players come to know she's the real power and the Arishok does as well (since he's lived there for 3 years and has studied Kirkwall and the surrounding area).

[Persephone]

Nizaris1 wrote...

persephone wrote...

So, trying to decipher this mess....

You're still a self absorbed child.

Bloodthirsty, vengeful, blinded, unable to see the bigger picture. Willing to betray the Warden oath if you don't get to murder a man in front of his daughter?

Saying everybody DESERVES to die because you didn't get your way?

Now THAT sounds actually MORE EVIL to me than anything else.

Loghain is evil? If he is evil, your Warden is a sociopathic monster.smilie

what with "you" and "your Warden" here?

lols

I think my meaning is pretty clear.

[Persephone]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Just think about it...

1. we already gain allies, we have the army at our back
2. we have made preparation for war against the Blight
3. the allies trust us, we have solves all their problems
4. there is no problem except Loghain...

At the landsmeet, we don't need Loghain, and Loghain is insignificant, we must remove him quickly and ignore all BS...Loghain have lost, then it is time to execute him. problem solved and everybody can prepare for the Blight

Ferelden's army fights well with him alive. They even have battle cries involving him.

Once conscripted, he isn't a problem. He is an asset.

[Dave of Canada]

We always need a competent general, who cares if we have an army if no-one can lead it?

[Mr.House]

We need more Gray Wardens. By making Loghain a Warden you have a better chance, until Alistair throws his hissy fit and get's a sad because he's just like his brother. A child wanting to play war.

[syllogi]

Persephone wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

Behead Loghain, that is the only way to save Ferelden....

A little obsessed with that, aren't ya?

Ferelden does wonderfully well with him alive. Or with him killing the Archdemon.<_<

Actually, if Loghain wins the duel during the Landsmeet, and we assume that bright red GAME OVER screen means he has killed the Warden, no, Ferelden doesn't do wonderfully well with him alive.  Ferelden is overrun by the Blight, other countries will have to kill the Archdemon, and if Loghain still lives beyond the final battle, he's still babbling about Orlesian betrayals while Thedas burns.

Yeah, out of the potential leaders during the Landsmeet, not counting the Warden, I'd say the only one who deserves to rule is Anora.

[Aeowyn]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Just think about it...

1. we already gain allies, we have the army at our back
2. we have made preparation for war against the Blight
3. the allies trust us, we have solves all their problems
4. there is no problem except Loghain...

At the landsmeet, we don't need Loghain, and Loghain is insignificant, we must remove him quickly and ignore all BS...Loghain have lost, then it is time to execute him. problem solved and everybody can prepare for the Blight

Except that we need more Wardens and unless you metagame you have no way of knowing how the final battle will end. For all the talk of honour and how proud he is to be a Grey Warden Alistair sure forgot that when he turned his back against the only other 2 Wardens in Ferelden because he did not get his personal vendetta fulfilled.
I would put my money on that if Duncan would have made the decision he would have spared Loghain.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Which is why it's also mindboggling that the Arishok was negotiating with Dumar and seemingly completely ignored Meredith. Even when the main instigators were from the Chantry.

Agreed. I've often argued that he should've also been dealing with her, since we the players come to know she's the real power and the Arishok does as well (since he's lived there for 3 years and has studied Kirkwall and the surrounding area).

But of course, due to excellent writing, the Arishok too turns out to be a complete moron who doesn't know jack **** about tactics and strategy, let alone basic politics that a simpleton would be able to grasp. Heck, he is not even able to keep a prisoner and a book for 3 days, despite it being his main objective.

Sigh, but enough of that. Everytime I talk about this game, I get pissed off.

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

We always need a competent general, who cares if we have an army if no-one can lead it?

Persephone wrote...

Once conscripted, he isn't a problem. He is an asset.

Correct. Loghain even dispenses words of wisdom on how to be an effective commander of troops, despite the horror that he knows such words are filled with.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sigh, but enough of that. Everytime I talk about this game, I get pissed off.

Suffice to say I agree with what you said before it, but yes let's return to the majesty that is Loghain Mac Tir.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 juin 2012 - 05:57 .

[Persephone]

syllogi wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

Behead Loghain, that is the only way to save Ferelden....

A little obsessed with that, aren't ya?

Ferelden does wonderfully well with him alive. Or with him killing the Archdemon.<_<

Actually, if Loghain wins the duel during the Landsmeet, and we assume that bright red GAME OVER screen means he has killed the Warden, no, Ferelden doesn't do wonderfully well with him alive.  Ferelden is overrun by the Blight, other countries will have to kill the Archdemon, and if Loghain still lives beyond the final battle, he's still babbling about Orlesian betrayals while Thedas burns.

Misunderstanding me on purpose now? Really? I was referring to the choice to keep him alive. There, I spelled it out.