71 réponses à ce sujet

[king chris 2]

hi fans

I'm going to create a male human rogue that has decent attack n crits, who also can open all locks in the game, but i don't know if i should specialise or not? or what I should up grade first cunning or dex or con, so I would like to know what my attributes should be at level 25, should i also increase strength so I can wear blood dragon armor?

King Chris

[BramAlam12345]

I believe the common belief is that raising strength to 20 to wear the best light armor, getting dex to 36, and pretty much putting the rest into cunning makes the best rogue. Make sure you get Lethality for sure as far as talents. My current level 17 city elf rogue followed this path, specialized in bard and assassin, and kicks ass.

Oh, and the first lockpick talent is all you really need if you follow my advice and go for high cunning.

Modifié par BramAlam12345, 12 décembre 2009 - 08:25 .

[king chris 2]

i'll try that but as a human noble, would you say a duel welding rogue with assasin n duelist would be a good rogue to play. so basically put 1 point in each of strength, dex n cunning till 20/36 then just pump cunning?

[Planetshooter]

If you want to be able to do incredibly funny things such as plant traps in front of every enemy in a room (never stops being funny), vanish in the middle of any fight and confuse the heck out of arena opponents in The Proving ... max out stealth. Stealth helps or improves so many other aspects of "being a rogue" that it's a must-have.

[BramAlam12345]

Yep, that sounds like a good build to me. Again, make absolutely sure that you get Lethality, preferably ASAP. Obviously the stealth tree is great too. Have fun.

[AndrewN]

Yep, Assassin and duelist is probably the way to go. Daggers only, take the 3rd level of each of the duel weapon talents but the 4th are not necessary for a rogue. All the rogue, assassin and duelist talents are golden, pick what you feel is best. For skills, 3 levels of combat, poison are probably necessary plus what ever you want.



You don't really need strength in the early game as the starter armour is fine for a while and remember the points from the fade.

[plecha]

BramAlam12345 wrote...

Oh, and the first lockpick talent is all you really need if you follow my advice and go for high cunning.

Prepare for some serious backtracking for those difficult locks you weren't able to pick earlier ...

[king chris 2]

ok I'll do that then n i know about the back tracking but what is the best leather armour in the game n how do i get it?

[chester013]

Follow the Trial of the Crows line for some sweet gloves

[Loc'n'lol]

The Felon's coat is probably the best. You can buy from Herren at Wade's emporium, in Denerim. Make sure you buy it before you turn in the second set of drake scales or the dragon scales, because Herren won't let you buy from his shop anymore.

[swk3000]

I'm running this sort of character myself. Here are some tips:



Backstab, backstab, and backstab. Then, if they're still alive, backstab again. Rogues have Lethality, which subs Cunning for Strength when calculating damage. Then, pick up the Assassin spec first. The reason for this is their Level 12 skill, Exploit Weakness. Basically, when you have Exploit Weakness, every backstab you do gets additional damage. The size of the boost is directly tied to your already massive Cunning score.



Don't bother with Strength. You can get equipment to boost your Strength up high enough to equip the good stuff. Make Wade's Drakescale Armor (the first version), then never talk to him about Drakescales again. The reason is that Wade's Emporium has an item called the Felon's Coat, which gives some amazing boosts that really help out a Rogue. Once you've purchased the Felon's Coat, you can start making Drakescale armor again.



Get Dexterity up to 24 as fast as possible (26 if you have the Edge). This, along with several accessories and equipment, will allow you to equip anything you need.



Rule 1: Momentum = god. Rule 2: See rule 1. Momentum is a sustained ability that requires 24 Dexterity, and it drastically increases your DPS by drasically increasing your attack rate. You probably won't want to get it right off the bat, as it restricts your options at a time when you have very few options, but later on, it's an excellent skill, and I personally plan to keep it on at all times.



Riposte and Dirty Fighting combined with Coup de Grace are amazing. Stun them, then you can backstab them while standing in front of them while they're stunned. Riposte is a little more costly early on, especially when combined with Momentum, but a stun+crit move is going to soften them up for you.



Don't bother with Dual Weapon Expert. I've never seen a Backstab crit, because Backstab damage = Crit damage. Also, the damage from bleeding can be outdone with a couple of backstabs. Get the first two abilities in the chain, but ignore the rest.



Learn to manage threat. Let your tank build it up, then turn around and backstab the enemy to death for being so stupid as to turn their back on you. If an enemy turns to you, stun them and backstab them some more.



Stealth is very nice, but it's very hard to fit in with everything else that makes a Rogue amazing. I work just fine without it.



Your Cunnning skill is too low. Even if you've never seen a Cunning score that high, it's still too low.



Final armor set for maximizing DPS looks something like this, according to Discobird:



Main Hand: The Rose's Thorn

Off-Hand: Thorn of the Dead Gods (Silverite) or The Edge

Helm: Helm of Honnleath

Body: Felon Coat

Golves: Red Jenny Seekers

Feet: Either the Cadash Stompers or the Silverhammer's Taskmasters (Stompers increase hostility, but are otherwise amazing)

Amulet: Whatever the hell you want. I plan on the Blood Gorged Amulet, myself.

Belt: Andruil's Blessing

Ring 1: Key to the City

Ring 2: Harvest Festival Ring



I realize I'm jumping all over the place, but I've been awake for about 16 hours now, and my brain is kinda screwy at the moment. The advice is pretty sound, even if the order is all sorts of screwy.



Oh, and as you probably guessed, Human Noble has better stats for a Rogue than the other races do.

[mousestalker]

Felon's Coat is on sale at Wade's Armour Emporium.

[Kalcalan]

Don't forget the bonuses from the fade, you don't need 20 points in Strength. You only need to get your Strength to 20 to wear the best light armour (the second drake skin armour unless I'm mistaken, I don't like wearing armours that much anymore) so equip all Strength boosting items to get your Strength there and remove the ones you don't need. Going for heavier armours is not optimal (I've tried) you don't want your rogue to be attacked by every enemy in the room so have your tank use taunt and threaten.



With the Fade bonuses and the specialization bonuses getting a high Dexterity shouldn't be a problem.



Max Cunning, once you get lethality it will kick in. Don't take more than one rank in lockpicking, it's not worth the trouble since with 60 points in Cunning you will be able to open every locks.



The rest depends on your build, for a backstabber, Dirty Fighting, Riposte and Stealth are obvious choices. In fact stealth should be a priority. You're not a warrior so you can delay getting whirlwind, punisher and the like until you've covered the most essential abilities.



Don't underestimate poisons, bombs and traps. Traps will only be useful under certain circumstances but poisons and bombs can save your rogue. Poisons can stun enemies and increase damage and that's always a good thing. Some bombs are good mage killers and very useful versus crowds (especially with stealth).



If you're short on skill points have an NPC craft the best traps and poisons that your main rogue will use.



Always use a dagger in your left hand as it will increase your speed. If a foe is immune to stun then it's time to use momentum.



Paralyzing runes are very useful for rogues so you should use as many as possible, alternatively having many dweomer runes can help you resist some annoying spell effects (taking out enemy mages should always be a priority though). In that respect a dwarf's resistance to magic is priceless.

[swk3000]

I was under the impression that in order for a Cunning skill of 60 to open any chest, you'd need 2 points in the Deft Hands tree, not one.

[Kalcalan]

swk3000 wrote...

I was under the impression that in order for a Cunning skill of 60 to open any chest, you'd need 2 points in the Deft Hands tree, not one.

I may be wrong (as I've completely forgotten about Felon's armour) but I always found that it was a waste of skillpoints to invest more than one rank in lockpicking and I can't recall any lock that couldn't be opened with a maxed Cunning score (60 is only a minimum, it should be higher by the end of the game).

Still, since you won't max out all the abilities for a rogue, skipping one rank in lockpicking so you can get something more useful is a fair deal IMO.

Feel free to correct me though. Even if I did check what I've posted I don't pretend to be infallible (my memory is not what it used to be). 

[Hahren]

swk3000 wrote...

I was under the impression that in order for a Cunning skill of 60 to open any chest, you'd need 2 points in the Deft Hands tree, not one.

That would be correct if the lock's difficulty was a 70. I don't think there are many if any over 60. 

[king chris 2]

well, i'm planning on all rogue talents maximised so i can open every lock at 60, but first getting dex up to 36 curently 26, then strength from 11 to 20 and finally cunning 15 to as much as possible, con will stay at 10, magic 11 and will 12 with assasin n duelist stuff hopefully and i've allready got the edge in my off hand but still in kocari wilds at the moment. so hopefully I'll be able to do most of these quests because i've only managed to find 48 percent of areas discovered

[Hahren]

King Chris,



Not sure if you noticed this, but you don't need to max out the lock picking talent. You can, but it's over kill. Difficulty goes up to 60 (maybe 70, but I can't recall) for most of the tough locks. To attain a 60 lock pick ability you'll need either a 70 Cunning, or some combination of Cunning + Talent (each rank is worth +10 Cunning for the purpose of open/disabling devices). So the value of your Cunning attribute for the difficulty is current score minus 10.



Feign Death isn't that great when you can get the same benefit (dumping aggro) from Master Stealth. Evasion is ok, but in the long run you might not need it. Mastering Stealth is a good option though.



Also as it has been pointed out you don't need to put any points into strength to get it to a 20. You'll just need patience, the attribute bonuses from the Fade (Circle of Magi... Broken Circle will get you there), and the right gear with strength on it. You can pretty much focus on Dex/Cun the entire game and not suffer for it.

[squidyj]

you probably wind up with +6-8 strength from gear, another few points from the fade, you shouldn't ever really have to put a point in it. You'll probably want to get your dex to 30 and put the rest into cunning. With a cunning that high I tend to prefer Bard over Duelist as a second specialization. If upset balance knocked your opponent on his ass then duelist would be awesome, but it doesn't.

[swk3000]

Hahren wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

I was under the impression that in order for a Cunning skill of 60 to open any chest, you'd need 2 points in the Deft Hands tree, not one.

That would be correct if the lock's difficulty was a 70. I don't think there are many if any over 60. 

Alright. Then I need to re-work my list of skills I need to take at each level. I don't like having to leave chests behind to get later, but doing so may allow me to work Riposte in. Currently, I can't get it until Level 14 because of everything else I'm trying to get, Thanks for the heads up.

[swk3000]

squidyj wrote...

you probably wind up with +6-8 strength from gear, another few points from the fade, you shouldn't ever really have to put a point in it. You'll probably want to get your dex to 30 and put the rest into cunning. With a cunning that high I tend to prefer Bard over Duelist as a second specialization. If upset balance knocked your opponent on his ass then duelist would be awesome, but it doesn't.

I don't think you even need to get Dex to 30. Here's my math:

Andruil's Blessing: +2 Dex
Key to the City: +2 Dex
Harvest Festival Ring: +2 Dex
Felon's Coat: +6 Dex
Helm of Honnleath: +2 Dex
Silverhammer's Taskmasters: +2 Dex

That's +16 Dex. Since you start the game with 15 Dex, that's a grand total of 31. I throw another 6 points in at the beginning of the game to equip the Edge, so that brings you up to 37. Finally, there are several Essence of Dexterity found in the Fade. I picked up 3 as a Mage when I was counting, but it apparently has some randomness to it. Even if it's fixed at 3, that puts you at a grand total of 40 Dex, which is 10 points higher than you need to equip Dragonbone Daggers.

It's very similar with Strength. You get 8 points from your equipment (though you'd only be able to equip 3 of them, for a +6 points); I also got +4 Strength from the Fade, so 11+6+4=21. That's enough Strength to equip any Light Armor you want, and you can dump the points you saved into Cunning to get more damage.

[AKOdin]

FYI re stats: When picking talents, the game checks your natural score (which includes the Fade increases) rather than your score plus equips and specialization bonuses. So, make sure you have enough dex to get momentum when you want it...



I was ticked off the first time I found it out. If you beeline for momentum, you will prob but all your points into dex until you hit its req, which is 24.

[Kalcalan]

I second what has been said, don't forget the bonus from the Fade and from items (if you need 20 points in Strength to equip an armour, don't forget that you will keep your armour on even if your character's Strength is actually lower after removing Strength boosting items). You'd be better off pumping points into Cunning. If you get Dexterity at 26 before the Fade and take Duelist or Assassin (or even better both) you won't need to spend much extra points on Dexterity. You'll want to get as many points as you can in Cunning, especially if you don't do all the side quests (for RPing reasons I've skipped many quests with my human noble). I reckon 60 points would be the minimum at the end of the game but I'm pretty sure that if you really max it you can get it to 70 or 80 (depending on your level of course).

AKOdin wrote...

FYI re stats: When picking talents, the
game checks your natural score (which includes the Fade increases)
rather than your score plus equips and specialization bonuses. So, make
sure you have enough dex to get momentum when you want it...

I
was ticked off the first time I found it out. If you beeline for
momentum, you will prob but all your points into dex until you hit its
req, which is 24.

Correct, but 24 isn't much (especially
considering how powerful Momentum is) and if you have the Edge you're
going to aim for 26 asap (in fact you can get 26 points at Ostagar).

Modifié par Kalcalan, 13 décembre 2009 - 01:24 .

[Hahren]

swk3000 wrote...

squidyj wrote...

you probably wind up with +6-8 strength from gear, another few points from the fade, you shouldn't ever really have to put a point in it. You'll probably want to get your dex to 30 and put the rest into cunning. With a cunning that high I tend to prefer Bard over Duelist as a second specialization. If upset balance knocked your opponent on his ass then duelist would be awesome, but it doesn't.

I don't think you even need to get Dex to 30. Here's my math:

Andruil's Blessing: +2 Dex
Key to the City: +2 Dex
Harvest Festival Ring: +2 Dex
Felon's Coat: +6 Dex
Helm of Honnleath: +2 Dex
Silverhammer's Taskmasters: +2 Dex

That's +16 Dex. Since you start the game with 15 Dex, that's a grand total of 31. I throw another 6 points in at the beginning of the game to equip the Edge, so that brings you up to 37. Finally, there are several Essence of Dexterity found in the Fade. I picked up 3 as a Mage when I was counting, but it apparently has some randomness to it. Even if it's fixed at 3, that puts you at a grand total of 40 Dex, which is 10 points higher than you need to equip Dragonbone Daggers.

It's very similar with Strength. You get 8 points from your equipment (though you'd only be able to equip 3 of them, for a +6 points); I also got +4 Strength from the Fade, so 11+6+4=21. That's enough Strength to equip any Light Armor you want, and you can dump the points you saved into Cunning to get more damage.

Do you consider your hit rate at all while leveling? The bad guys tend to scale in level to you. So they aren't always easy to hit. Flanking can help, but I don't think I could play a character that will get good by X level when he could be good on the way.

Don't get me wrong though! I do think it is sound logic to place a personal cap on how far you want some attributes to go. You don't need to have a 50 natural dex to maintain a high hit rate. I just think that stopping at 24 for momentum, and then waiting for items would make a rough game. *shrug*

[OneBadAssMother]

king chris 2 wrote...

hi fans

I'm going to create a male human rogue that has decent attack n crits, who also can open all locks in the game, but i don't know if i should specialise or not? or what I should up grade first cunning or dex or con, so I would like to know what my attributes should be at level 25, should i also increase strength so I can wear blood dragon armor?

King Chris

Dual-welding rogues have the highest possible damage per second ratio at a single target - but you will have to micromanage. Always hit from the flanks or when enemies are stunned. Riposte hit/dirty fighting are 2 stuns at your disposal.

You will need a DEX of 34 to max all important DW talents. But not all DW talents are important - cripple and punisher are just a waste of stamina. You will do all your damage with Momentum with standard backstabs anyway. And yes you will have enough talent points to be a good DWer and a lockpicker.

Raise your cunning high, not only does this help with stealth/locks/etc. But with the Lethality talent, you can use your cunning as your weapon damage base instead of STR. However, do raise STR as well as a teitairy attribute - because it will still contribute to your damage score.

Do NOT touch willpower, magic, or constitution. If you have low health, use combat stealth instead.