6 réponses à ce sujet

[ianpwilliams]

I started out intending to do a pure renegade through the ME trilogy, but I decided during ME 1 that wasn't too bothered about sticking with it, especially because it doesn't really effect anything.

So now in ME 2 I'm mainly paragon, and I'll probably just keep mixing it up a bit, being a paragon overall with an occasional ruthless streak. And I'll probably do the same in ME 3.

In ME 2 it seems that more paragon and renegade points unlocks more conversation options, but won't affect the ending (it'll probably just be a good/bad choice like in ME 1, I can't remember). So wouldn't it be in my best interests to maximize both renegade and paragon points, particularly in situations where it's not a choice of one or the other, i.e. when there is an option to press RT for paragon, or LT for renegade?

And without giving away any spoilers (I haven't played ME 3 yet) how does the morality system work in ME 3? Is it like ME 2, where renegade and paragon unlock conversation options, but at the end of the day you can still pretty much choose your ending?

I've always gone pure renegade or paragon in the past in these types of games (certainly KOTOR 1&2 where it was one or the other), but in the ME games I'm quite happy mixing it up a bit, being a paragon overall and occasionally being a bit nasty.

[PsiFive]

The trouble with the ME2 morality system is that there's no charm/intimidate skill to put points into to help get paragon/renegade conversation options. Instead, and this is the second part of the problem, every time paragon and renegade options are due to come up the game checks to see how many of those points you've got so far as a percentage of how many you could theoretically have got up to that point. This has the effect of making it increasingly difficult to get both or sometimes either paragon and renegade options if you've missed earlier points because of the way you're role playing the game. With an all paragon or all renegade path it's fairly easy to get all the appropriate responses, but you'll start to see those for the other alignment being greyed out more and more often as the game goes on. Paragade or renegon or mixed or whatever you want to call it can be tough to maintain each score at a high enough level. Since I like to role play and pick whatever I damn well please I tend to use the infinite morality points glitch on Lazarus station near the beginning of the game to boost both paragon and renegade points high enough that the percentages will pass just about any check in the game. Takes a while but as it's so early on it doesn't really break the flow of the game for me.

ianpwilliams wrote...

And without giving away any spoilers (I haven't played ME 3 yet) how does the morality system work in ME 3? Is it like ME 2, where renegade and paragon unlock conversation options, but at the end of the day you can still pretty much choose your ending?

It's been folded into an overall reputation score system. I haven't played enough to really get a handle on the changes, and as what I have played was on someone else's system I won't any time soon. But 'choose your own ending'? Mate, I'm not even going to go anywhere near that minefield. 

[ianpwilliams]

Wow, that's a stupid system! Although to be fair I wasn't planning on investing in charm or intimidate in ME 2 had they been there, having regretted doing it in ME 1 when I could have put points into combat abilities instead.

I'm a few hours into the game and I've been virtually all paragon, with a very occasional renegade choice for the hell of it. I'm way too far in to do any kind of glitch, so that's not really an option, so it sounds like my choices are:

1 - Go pure paragon from now on and hopefully still get all the paragon options

2 - Do whatever I want through the game (my preferred option), and just accept the fact that most paragon and renegade options will be grayed out

Assuming I choose option 2, there are still "good" and "evil" (non blue or red) conversation choices aren't there? So I could still have a bit of attitude?

And if I'm doing whatever I want and I'm a mixture of paragon and renegade, will all the cut-scene LT and RT paragon/renegade cues still come up?

And as for the ME 3 ending (which I have heard a lot of complaints about), it really doesn't bother me. Games are more about the gameplay and the story for me, so the ending can do whatever it wants.

Modifié par ianpwilliams, 12 juin 2012 - 08:17 .

[PsiFive]

And as for the ME 3 ending (which I have heard a lot of complaints about), it really doesn't bother me. Games are more about the gameplay and the story for me, so the ending can do whatever it wants.

Yeah, some would argue that's still a minefield. Look, the ME3 gameplay is fine, but I'm also one of those for whom the story's the biggest and most important part, and I have problems there way before the ending. In fact I haven't even got anywhere near the ending yet. I won't say what because your mileage may vary, and I very much hope it does. And after all there are no doubt things about ME2's and ME1's stories that I was prepared to overlook but which made other people stop and go 'Well, that's stupid.' One man's meat is another man's poison, and all that. You're clearly going in with an open mind and I think that's absolutely the right thing to do.

Back to ME2 and your question. Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking when they redesigned the morality system for ME2. It makes looking at the paragon and renegade bars completely pointless because they don't tell you what you really need to know, and if you've just come from ME1 where they were kind of relevant then it's bloody misleading to see them in ME2 and wonder why the hell you're not getting a paragon option when the bar's near enough full. If you don't know that full bar doesn't necessarily mean high percentage you can end up wanting to hit your head on a wall. When you do know it.... well, it makes you want to bang someone else's head on a wall. ;-)

WRT your 2 choices, #2 is better for an RPG but without wanting to put spoilers out here (I know it's a spoiler section but this sounds like your first run of ME2 - correct me if I'm wrong) there are potentially four conversations coming up which require a pretty high paragon percentage. Specifically these are (1) a conversation near the end of Samara's loyalty mission (2) resolving an argument between Miranda and Jack, (3) resolving an argument between Tali and Legion and (4) resolving an argument between you and Zaeed if you completed Zaeed's loyalty mission a certain way. NB for all I know you may have reached and resolved or avoided some of these already, in which case that's fine but you need to be aware that the others lie ahead. The 'few hours' that you've put in so far means that probably at least two of the first three are still to come. It's possible to look on the web and find out what percentage paragon score you need but the problem is that you still don't know what your current percentage is, and although you may be able to use a save editor or something (speculating here - have never actually tried) I've never seen any means of finding out in the game. This means that going for option #2 and role playing it, as you really should for an RPG, may well mean that you will come up short and miss those paragon resolutions. None of them are really really essential in that you can still beat the game without them, and one of them doesn't appear to do anything at all apart from give you an extra conversation option (vague, I know, but I still trying to make this as un-spoilery as I can), but in the case of three of those four situations you may end up failing to secure the loyalty of a character, which may potentially....

IMPORTANT BUT NON-SPECIFIC SPOILER ALERT BELOW
















.... may potentially get them killed on the final mission. If you've read this far despite the spolier alert then I hope that's still vague enough that it doesn't change anything apart from making you go 'Oh, right, so that's what PsiFive meant' if it does happen. And in turn that probably won't change anything at all in the final mission because the last decision you have to make I believe is always your choice no matter what. But it can affect Shepard's own survival because if too few squadmates survive the final mission then Shepard will die as well despite the mission being a success. Needless to say dead Shepards cannot be imported into ME3 because for reasons that will become clear The Illusive Man isn't prepared to spend all that money bringing Shepard back to life a second time. Knowing all that it may mean that now you want to choose option #1 instead and pick all or mostly paragon responses and interrupts during your game in order to keep your percentage up. Yes, that's gaming the system rather than role playing the game, and I'm no keener on that than you are (which is why I use the glitch early on in the game instead), but that's pretty much the choice.


END OF SPOILERS


One final piece of advice that you might want to consider before deciding how to play from this point. There are two things you can do in the game that will boost your paragon/renegade scores and aren't exploiting a glitch or gaming the system. The first is automatic if you've imported a character from ME1 (not Genesis but a completed ME1 game) you get some points for it, up to a maximum of 190 paragon and/or renegade points. 190 is a pretty useful amount and only requires the ME1 bar to be half full, so if you did import you'll probably get that or close to it if you did a fairly mixed play of the first game, and with that bonus you can probably get most of the paragon/renegade options in ME2 with a similar mixed play. I speak from personal experience here because I didn't know all this when I first played ME2 and I still got most of the conversation options with an imported ME1 Shepard. Annoyingly you lose this bonus if you then use the imported character again in a New Game + but at least it's there for the first playthrough.

The second thing you can do, which I did as well, is to put skill points in the passive class power that grants a 100% bonus on morality points. E.g. for a soldier you pour points into Combat Mastery, which gets you +20% morality at Rank 1, +50% at Rank 2, +70% at Rank 3 and +100% at Rank 4 if you choose the Shock Trooper evolution. For an Adept it's the Biotic Mastery power, for an Infiltrator it's Operative, for an Engineer it's Tech Mastery and so on, but the bonus for each rank is the same AFAIK and one of the two Rank 4 evolutions will push the morality point bonus from 70% to 100%. Between that and an ME1 import with some points you can probably get most or all of the options without having to game the system.

Longish post but I hope the text walls haven't put you off and there's some stuff there that helps.

Give Harbinger a face full of Incendiary Ammo from me when you see the ******. 

[ianpwilliams]

As it happens I have played and completed ME 2 before now, but it was a very long time ago. I now half-remember that you have to do all the loyalty missions and stuff to stop people from getting killed after the "major event". In fact I remember hearing about it during my first playthrough, and ended up looking up how to save everyone, which is hardly RPG-like. This time I'm not sure what to do regarding that.

I've already levelled up my Biotic Mastery (I'm an Adept this time) to level 3, so I'm already getting bonus paragon/renegade points. Seems like I'll go pure paragon from now on, maybe with a sprinkling of renegade later on when I'm pretty sure I'm paragon-ed up enough!

[capn233]

If you are just interested in the story and want as many dialogue options as possible, just get the ME2 gibbed save editor and give yourself a bunch of paragon and renegade points. That way all the conversation options will be unlocked and you can do what you want.

If you went straight Renegade you would probably have enough points to get every Intimidate option though.

[ianpwilliams]

I forgot to mention I'm on Xbox 360. But it's ok, I have a paragon bonus from biotic mastery