1256 réponses à ce sujet

[clennon8]

Okay, now we're really getting ridiculous. Are we really to believe that Synthesis will cure depression and all forms of mental disease? Don't make me say those two words again. You know which two words I'm talking about. They begin with SPACE and end with MAGIC.

[jtav]

clen, I don't care about the Catalyst's proposed singularity. I want to start a singularity of my own, with current life as the beneficiaries. I'm only concerned about super-advanced AIs because I chose to show mercy to the Reapers and don't want to get squashed like a bug if they turn out warlike.

[Taboo]

I can't even tell if you're serious. Are you suggesting you'd cure someone and then allow them rip their eyes from their sockets?

Flaws make you human. We wouldn't have progress without them. Einstein was the way he was because of flaws, and they made him great. Howard Hughes was great because of his flaws.

They are a virtue, because people use them to empower themselves. I don't see it as a weakness if it's being used to better someone, regardless of the drawbacks.

This isn't cancer. It's who people are.

[Ridwan]

clennon8 wrote...

Okay, now we're really getting ridiculous. Are we really to believe that Synthesis will cure depression and all forms of mental disease? Don't make me say those two words again. You know which two words I'm talking about. They begin with SPACE and end with MAGIC.

"I'm a broke alcholic, without a job and debt up to my ears, but thanks to Shepard jumping into the green light, I'm a broke alcholic, without a job and debt up to my ears mixed with robotparts."

Now I can stop feeling sad, and start feeling awesome!

[Taboo]

Opsrbest wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I like having OCD. I like having Crippling Depression. I wouldn't be who I am without it.

I like being me. I don't want to change. Not now. Not ever.

John Nash disagrees with the concept of indulging that certain appetite.

John Nash has become a symbol of overpowering an adversity. He didn't need Synthesis to do it.

And no, using Ron Howard's film as a basis for an argument is not a good idea.

He's fine the way he is.

[jaktuk]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I like having OCD. I like having Crippling Depression. I wouldn't be who I am without it.

I like being me. I don't want to change. Not now. Not ever.

If you do not want your depression or OCD gone then you are a just a bad case of slave morality. This is an abo****ely ridicolous thing to say.

[antares_sublight]

jtav wrote...

clen, I don't care about the Catalyst's proposed singularity. I want to start a singularity of my own, with current life as the beneficiaries. I'm only concerned about super-advanced AIs because I chose to show mercy to the Reapers and don't want to get squashed like a bug if they turn out warlike.

Like I said, so now all organic life that will evolve in the future is subject to the certain danger of at least one singularity.

The arguments here are preposterous:
1. Organics are flawed, synthetics never have any physical/runtime problems. Synthetics are perfect, so making hybrids will make organic-synthetic hybrids perfect and without any ailment of any kind. - you have to be joking. synthetics never have viruses, hardware problems, etc? Not to mention that the catalyst just showed you that it is possible to instantly, remotely kill all synthetic and hybrid-synthetic life with the technology in the Destroy option.
2. Synthesis is beneficial for all current life. The synthesis either a) stops evolution for all life where it is at Synthesis time (not actually beneficial) or introduces parasitic nanites that forcefully manipulate life into forms and functions they see fit (every life form is a zombie under nanite control). Plus, like I said above, new organic life that WILL evolve will forever be relegated to lower forms, or erradicated by the hybrid singularity.

[Taboo]

jaktuk wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I like having OCD. I like having Crippling Depression. I wouldn't be who I am without it.

I like being me. I don't want to change. Not now. Not ever.

If you do not want your depression or OCD gone then you are a just a bad case of slave morality. This is an abo****ely ridicolous thing to say.

OH GOD WHY?

What in God's name makes you think I want to change?

[Flubberlub]

We should never play God. Thus .would madness ensue

[MegaSovereign]

Hey taboo...Don't like being a cyborg?

Try to ****ing stop me.

*runs and jumps into the synthesis beam*

[clennon8]

Maybe it's unnecessary and/or unwanted, but I feel the need to jump in and say that I don't think Taboo is saying that all people must forever be stuck with whatever afflictions they may have. Only that some people may not want to be "cured," thank you very much. I hate to keep beating my drum to a single issue, but... CONSENT. You have no right, under any circumstances whatsoever, to synthesize the galaxy. We all acknowledge that the RGB choices put us in a "choose the lesser of three evils" situation, but Synthesis ain't it.

[Ridwan]

Overcoming adversity is what makes life special.
Having turn everyone into some kind of freak, is not special, it's monstrous.

[Reorte]

clennon8 wrote...

Maybe it's unnecessary and/or unwanted, but I feel the need to jump in and say that I don't think Taboo is saying that all people must forever be stuck with whatever afflictions they may have. Only that some people may not want to be "cured," thank you very much. I hate to keep beating my drum to a single issue, but... CONSENT. You have no right, under any circumstances whatsoever, to synthesize the galaxy. We all acknowledge that the RGB choices put us in a "choose the lesser of three evils" situation, but Synthesis ain't it.

This. It's beyond me why some people are unable to grasp this.

Also barely touched on in this thread is that "the final evolution" (can't recall the exact words) means the almost certain end of life on undeveloped planets in the long run as it's unable to adapt.

[Rhazeal]

Guys, were not thinking this through. Were not considering the real reason its wrong to disseminate Shepards essence throughought the galaxy.....
 
 

Now everyone will dance like Shephard.

[Joe Del Toro]

Rhazeal wrote...

Guys, were not thinking this through. Were not considering the real reason its wrong to disseminate Shepards essence throughought the galaxy.....
 
 

Now everyone will dance like Shephard.

*Shuffles like stoned man shaking goldfish out of pants* AUUUUUUUUUGGGGHHHHHH

Modifié par Joe Del Toro, 11 juin 2012 - 10:17 .

[MisterJB]

Reorte wrote...
This. It's beyond me why some people are unable to grasp this.

We have no problem grasping it.  We simply believe the opportunity presented for improvement of the galaxy takes precedence over the right of self-determination.

Also barely touched on in this thread is that "the final evolution" (can't recall the exact words) means the almost certain end of life on undeveloped planets in the long run as it's unable to adapt.

Calling it the final evolution of life is stupid, was not present in the script and I hope it is removed in the EC.

[Sisterofshane]

@MisterJB, what you conclude to be an "improvement" can be completely subjective. That is why Synthesis should never be a choice that is given to any one individual.

Taboo is trying to illustrate this. Some people are fine with the way they are, and would even have a crisis of identity if they were to lose some/all parts of what makes up their personality. You cannot say that you are "improving" the galaxy and expect everyone to just accept that. That's why you are violating individual rights, and why some of us feel that it is not right.

[mass perfection]

Synthesis is basically genetic rape.There is no new DNA.You're wiping out organics and synthetics by replacing them with hybrids (Reapers).There's no final evolution.Shepard adding his energy to the Crucible doesn't make everything the final evolution of life.You're taking away from the organics what it means to be organic by replacing their emotions with logic.A lot of people hate being altered by technology (Deus Ex: Human Revolution/Anti-Transhumanists).You're keeping the Reapers around and they still pose a threat.The Reapers are pure evil as they cause so many evil things to happen such as Husks,indoctrinated slaves,killing trillions of men women and chilren for a problem we might be able to solve on our own,liquefying billions of people to increase your numbers.


That's some of the things that make Synthesis evil.How Starchild explains it,it doesn't make sense in the first place.

[MisterJB]

You can never please everyone. However, you only have to look at Shepard to see the kind of benefits synthetic upgrades can bring and I find it deplorable to deny it to all simply because some might not like it.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Rhazeal wrote...

Guys, were not thinking this through. Were not considering the real reason its wrong to disseminate Shepards essence throughought the galaxy.....
 
 

Now everyone will dance like Shephard.

*Shuffles like stoned man shaking goldfish out of pants* AUUUUUUUUUGGGGHHHHHH

Meh, I already did that. The real question is if we'll also become magnets for blue woman.

[Sisterofshane]

MisterJB wrote...

You can never please everyone. However, you only have to look at Shepard to see the kind of benefits synthetic upgrades can bring and I find it deplorable to deny it to all simply because some might not like it.

You've got it backwards.  You're not denying anybody the right to "upgrade" themselves.  You are in fact denying people the right NOT to upgrade.

I bet you persuaded Michael and Rebeka to get the gene therapy for the child.

[KingZayd]

Saren and TIM were also controlled, not led. Why haven't you tried harder to save their lives?

[Landline]

It's never bloody made clear what synthesis does.

If it's suppose to end conflict between organics and synthetics then it must change how their minds work on a fundamental level, violating the most basic right to your own mind, indoctrinating everyone. So the way I see it you kill everyone and replace them with new people who wear their faces.

Maybe if they explained the concept better, but I find the whole idea stupid and poorly thought out on a fundamental level, not to mention other problems like what if new life evolved, entered from another galaxy or someone made new robots.

[akenn312]

MisterJB wrote...
I am not denying Joker the ability to choose his own destiny. I am, in fact, giving him more options by curing his crippling disability.

Miranda had emotional problems due to abuse. But physically? She is more intelligent, attractive, stronger, has faster reflexes, etc. Where do I sign up for this?

Giving? No you are forcing options on him there is a huge difference. Exactly "where do you sign up" you make a choice to want to be genetically perfect but it is wrong to force that on someone else. That why Miranda's father was a monster, she was not grateful of the gifts he forced upon her she tolerated them and used them because she did not have a choice, her main problem with them and her jealousy with Shepard was she could never totally believe her gifts where of her own actions of her genetics. Maybe now you can see where i'm going with this. Look past the easy advantages part and see freedom of choice is the important thing here.

I you want to take steroids and become stronger go right ahead. I have every right to not take them and become stronger on my own merits. You had no right to pump steroids into everyone else because you think it would be good for them.

Ieldra2 wrote...
@Taboo:

Flaws and diseases are not virtues. Period. People learn to live with them because they don't have an alternative. Don't you *DARE* lecture me about the virtue of suffering (except if self-imposed). I have nothing but contempt for such a mindset. If you want to stay blind, just cut out your eyes again after being healed.

No No No, this is just horrible thinking, you don't force your ideal on someone. You can't look at disabilities as horrible burdens that must be instantly fixed or the people are dumb for not using a quick genetic modification to rise above them. That is a bad horrible path to go down. No handicapped person is weak. To live with those issues and overcome them makes those individuals much stronger than your perfect genetically made synth-humans. Who are you to make them into what you think they should be?


You alway have to give people their basic human rights and the choice how they want to live their lives. I have contempt for this made up ideal that synthesis is some happy upgrade or improvement on life. This is just goes down the path of a certain tyrant in the 1940's. There is no other way around it. You synthesis people really need to take a long hard look at what you are preaching about here. It's not good.

Modifié par akenn312, 11 juin 2012 - 11:16 .