42 réponses à ce sujet

[terdferguson123]

To blood magic I mean. It felt really out of character as he seemed to be much more level headed than Meredith ever was. I enjoyed this game quite a bit, especially the storyline, but this just didn't make any sense to me. Any thoughts?

Sorry if this topic has been posted before, I actually just recently finished the game.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 11 juin 2012 - 08:11 .

[EricHVela]

I gathered that he panicked. His position allowed him access to information regarding dangerous practices in magic. (To fight corruption, it helps to understand it.)

Having no actual practice with it, it got out of control really quick.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 11 juin 2012 - 08:20 .

[terdferguson123]

Yeah, I can see that he panicked a bit. But it didn't strike you as a bit out of character. Up until that point in the game, he seemed to be very much in control, even confident in his regular abilities. Especially in his willingness to make people believe that not all mages are blood mages.

[EricHVela]

Panic is a weird thing. It can hit even the most level-headed person. When it does, calm logic goes right out the window.

If it was a matter of panic, there should have been a means of showing it better than what I saw. For now, it's just speculation and I chose to use panic as the reason.

[TEWR]

Bioware has stated that the only reason they did that was because they wanted another boss battle. Didn't matter that him turning like that would cheapen his character or the story, so long as there were MOAR BATTELZ.

[thesalla]

Orsino is actually a bit more complicated, since he studied blood magic, he was the one who helped Quentin's research after all. As for the boss battle thing - afaik he was always intended to be a boss if you sided with the templars.

[thats1evildude]

He had lost all hope. He secretly supported Quentin as a means of finding a weapon to use against Meredith and intended only to use the Harvester ritual as a last resort. The death of his charges, coupled with the fact that he would be a hunted fugitive even if he survived the final battle, drove him over the edge. He's killing himself, but he's doing it in such a way that he'll take Meredith with him.

It could have been handled a bit better, but I don't have as big a problem with Orsino's transformation as some people.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 juin 2012 - 10:26 .

[Dave of Canada]

/myinterpretation,notcanonahead

It's my assumption that 'O' was always a blood mage, least in the scholarly sense. Perhaps he hadn't casted anything or practiced his rituals, though no basic blood mage would've been able to achieve the corpse-beast which Orsino did. While I wouldn't trust Meredith's sanity, she does have a valid point about Orsino's spell.

Considering we know Orsino had Quentin's research (and who knows what else) in his files, it paints a different perspective of the "reasonable" first enchanter. His stance against Meredith and wanting to stop her from looking at every mage's belongings--including his own--might've been born out of fear of self, rather than care for his peers.

Thus, him snapping makes sense considering all the things which occur beforehand. Imagining trying to protect yourself and ultimately it crashes down, taking everyone along with it. As the men come through the doors, killing your peers and friends, simply because you wanted to protect yourself.

Add guilt, fear, panic, hopelessness and dangerous magic all together and you get a snappin' Orsino, fun for the whole family and sold at all retailers for the low price of 24.99 (blood not included)

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 11 juin 2012 - 10:18 .

[thats1evildude]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Add guilt, fear, panic, hopelessness and dangerous magic all together and you get a snappin' Orsino, fun for the whole family and sold at all retailers for the low price of 24.99 (blood not included)

Snappin' Orsino comes with real Blood Mage action! Push the button on his back and watch him slit his wrists! It's fun for children of all ages*!

*Not suitable for children of all ages.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 juin 2012 - 10:27 .

[Wulfram]

The big problem is that the fight before Orsino goes crazy is really easy. Which makes it feel like you're winning.

When storywise, the mages are supposed to be losing

@Dave of Canada What you say makes sense, but it's worth noting that he'd be well aware that the consequences of him being discovered would have at best been mass purges and worsened conditions, I'd guess more likely Annullment. So protecting his peers required him to protect himself, once he'd got himself entangled with blood magic - turning himself in wasn't an option that would do any good.

[Melca36]

terdferguson123 wrote...

To blood magic I mean. It felt really out of character as he seemed to be much more level headed than Meredith ever was. I enjoyed this game quite a bit, especially the storyline, but this just didn't make any sense to me. Any thoughts?

Sorry if this topic has been posted before, I actually just recently finished the game.

They wanted a second boss fight.

[Ponendus]

I always thought it was transparent that they did it so no matter who the player sides with both Meredith and Orsino would die thus eliminating the complications of having to have one or the other in future instalments? I confess I haven't sided with the Templars though, does Meredith die anyway?

[AshenSugar]

Bioware says that the reason was because they 'needed another boss fight in the game'... and so they promptly created character assasination with poor Orisino, forcing him to do this whole "raaawrrrrr i iz teh ebil blood magezorz u will all diez!!!!11122" routine.

This knocked me for six when it occured in my first playthrough of the game - shattering the final remnants of story immersion, and leaving me scratching my head and wondering how any supposedly professional story writer could jump so many sharks in one mightly leap (this was before I knew about the 'needz moar boss fights rawwwwr!!!' retcon).

I'd been getting on well with DA:2's story, right up until the middle of Act 3, when things started sliding horribly into something that almost (to me at least) felt like self parody.

Let's just hope they learned from their own mistakes.

[EricHVela]

We already knew full well the "official" and "technical" reasons for it.

I had guessed that the OP was looking for story-based discussions instead.

[Gervaise]

Ponendus - No Meredith doesn't die. Strangely enough she doesn't produce the uber sword either. She just fights alongside Hawke and companions bashing away at the monstrous blob until it finally dies. Still at least Orsino turning makes sense when Meredith is actually present in the room and Hawke has been slaughtering mages throughout the gallows.

The bit that doesn't make sense is Orsino turning on Hawke with Meredith nowhere in sight if you support the mages

[Dave of Canada]

Meredith does die. She turns on you regardless, she just has a different excuse if you've sided with the Templar.

[KingLee2k9]

Well gameplay wise we were winning but story wise mages were losing, they should have shown cutscenes of the mages losing in the room orsino was in, it would make more sense. But when you see your friends getting slauthered people snap thus orisino turned to blood magic

[Fallstar]

If the battle had been going badly for the mages, it could have been explained away that as First Enchanter he had some knowledge of blood magic and that using the research of the blood mage who killed your mother, was able to emulate the Dwarves' research at Amgarrak using magic.

That'd be the explanation of how Orsino could turn into a Harvester. But as for why, there really isn't one. The battle could hardly be going better for the mages, assuming your Hawke sided with them. And considering that the Orsino-Harvester fight didn't even come close in difficulty to the fight with the original Harvester (remember all the threads with people complaining about the Grim Reaper achievement? None of that for DA2 was there) it didn't really add that much to the gameplay experience either.

In essence they just made the 3rd act more bewildering than it already is for no particular reason.

[DarkDragon777]

Because Bioware wanted a boss battle.

[wsandista]

He cut himself shaving.

[Merlex]

I believe that something more sinister is going on. Some 'thing' behind the scenes, is pulling strings. It wanted the Mage/ Templar war to happen. It wants everybody at each other's throats. Divide and conquer.

The statue, Meredith, Orsino, templars being possessed, crazed bloodmages everywhere. I believe these are all connected. We are being setup for an apocalypse.

[Dave of Canada]

DuskWarden wrote...

That'd be the explanation of how Orsino could turn into a Harvester. But as for why, there really isn't one. The battle could hardly be going better for the mages, assuming your Hawke sided with them.

It isn't going good for the mages. Seperate gameplay and cutscenes and you've got the brunt reality of it: Templars are charging through the Gallows, they've killed everyone except the inner sanctum and now are assaulting the remnants of the mages where Hawke is positioned and even then, mages have still died within a few waves of Templar.

There's an army outside, a handful of people inside and there's nowhere for them to go. None of them are coming out of there alive and they know it, thus Orsino's breakdown. The only reason Hawke survived that day was Cullen allowed Hawke to leave.

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

It isn't going good for the mages. Seperate gameplay and cutscenes and you've got the brunt reality of it: Templars are charging through the Gallows, they've killed everyone except the inner sanctum and now are assaulting the remnants of the mages where Hawke is positioned and even then, mages have still died within a few waves of Templar.

There's an army outside, a handful of people inside and there's nowhere for them to go. None of them are coming out of there alive and they know it, thus Orsino's breakdown. The only reason Hawke survived that day was Cullen allowed Hawke to leave.

So Orsino turns into a Harvester (a recycled GoA villain) near the mages? It's asinine. It makes no sense. The developers admitted they did it to avoid the mage choice being the "good option" and it shows. I wish more effort was put into giving us three-dimensional characters, because they come across as caricatures.

Also, why would Cullen have a problem with Meredith wanting to kill Hawke? Hawke didn't surrender and he's killing templars, while Cullen has no problem with Meredith invoking the Right of Annulment simply to appease a hypothetical mob.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 16 juin 2012 - 02:59 .

[Gervaise]

When I said that Meredith doesn't die, I meant at Orsino's hand. Naturally she dies regardless whichever course you choose. Really the ending doesn't make much sense either way, starting with Anders' overkill bomb, on through the boss battles to the templar response to Hawke after Meredith's death. Hawke can be a blood mage who has been promoting mage freedom throughout and yet just because they took the templar side in the RoA, the templars bow the knee to them and allow them to be made Vicount. Hawke can have supported the templars throughout and then just because they defy Meredith and refuse to support the RoA, they are forced to go on the run. You'd think after what they'd just witnessed they would ask them to stick around. When I get to the Last Straw now, I am really just going through the motions because it is all rather ridiculous.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

It isn't going good for the mages. Seperate gameplay and cutscenes and you've got the brunt reality of it: Templars are charging through the Gallows, they've killed everyone except the inner sanctum and now are assaulting the remnants of the mages where Hawke is positioned and even then, mages have still died within a few waves of Templar.

There's an army outside, a handful of people inside and there's nowhere for them to go. None of them are coming out of there alive and they know it, thus Orsino's breakdown. The only reason Hawke survived that day was Cullen allowed Hawke to leave.

So Orsino turns into a Harvester (a recycled GoA villain) near the mages? It's asinine. It makes no sense. The developers admitted they did it to avoid the mage choice being the "good option" and it shows. I wish more effort was put into giving us three-dimensional characters, because they come across as caricatures.

Also, why would Cullen have a problem with Meredith wanting to kill Hawke? Hawke didn't surrender and he's killing templars, while Cullen has no problem with Meredith invoking the Right of Annulment simply to appease a hypothetical mob.

And you have to wonder why the Templars would want to arrest Hawke if Hawke has been supporting them the whole entire time. Meredith wanting to arrest/kill him I can understand. She went insane. But why would the other Templars -- Cullen among them, whom Hawke can consider a friend and I imagine Cullen feels the same -- even agree to do something so.... stupid?

Hawke has the most influence in Kirkwall -- or so the story would have us believe, though it's very poorly conveyed -- and if he/she is supporting the Templars throughout the entire Act or even the game, then why would the Templar Order support arresting him? Wouldn't Hawke better serve their interests if he's free?

As a Mage, you can kinda rationalize it. But even so, it doesn't make much sense. And although the ending clearly has Hawke becoming the Viscount, that's not really relevant. That the Templars were even considering arresting Hawke makes no sense, if he/she has been consistently pro-Templar.

Act III is probably the worst part of DAII, because the developers have admitted that they rushed it into being linear and "less than ideal".

Which I'd call an understatement, because much of it doesn't make sense or is extremely railroad-y. More so then the previous Acts were, one might argue.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 juin 2012 - 03:36 .