60 réponses à ce sujet

[Kanub]

I want to play these magical gold games that the 'weight doesn't matter' crowd play. The ones where they are able to spend the entire time doing perfect Cloak-Power-Shot cycles without ever having to fire a prox mine in haste, or use the full cloak duration to reach a fallen comrade and wait for the normal cooldown after, or spam Shield Drain as often as possible.

Because y'know... I've never seen those gold games. Presumably if their beloved cycle is broken they'll move somewhere else (not cloacked, because that would trigger a longer cooldown, which they obviously don't belive in since weight doesn't matter) and start it again? 

Modifié par Kanub, 11 juin 2012 - 10:19 .

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

Ashen Earth wrote...

BazoozooTV wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

BazoozooTV wrote...

I have both a Valiant I and Black Widow I

I prefer the Valiant I because:
1.) It shoots off those 3 shots faster (easily within tactical cloak span)
2.) It reloads faster
3.) It has twice the ammo
4.) It has less recoil for easier adjustments on shot 2 and 3
5.) It weighs significantly less so I can spam energy drain or proximity mines
Plus with Extended Barrel and AP mod (both at 5) it only deals slightly less damage than the BW

weight doesnt matter for any infiltrator.

I've heard that said many times but I don't subscribe to that line of thinking. I enjoy using energy drain/proximity mines. 

But if you cloak immediately before using either of those powers, the recharge speed is always 3 seconds regardless of what weapons you're carrying.

Seems a lot of people still don't know about that ...
aquire target > cloak > PM/ED > fire fire fire > reload and repeat
Cool down will always be 3sec if you are cloaked for minimal time. the PM/ED and the shots (if you're fast enough) will all benefit from TC damage boost.

[Tenkawa]

let's see if I can put this in perspective. valient: cloak. proxmine blam! blam! blam! click-click blam! blam! blam! click-click! cloak. proxmine. etc... You can rip through a 3-round clip, including 3 reloads, during the 3 second minimum cloak cooldown. The BW you aren't getting close, even with reload cancelling.

You can also fire it from the hip, although not nearly as effectively. It is my gun of choice.

[Black Phantom]

Kanub wrote...

I want to play these magical gold games that the 'weight doesn't matter' crowd play. The ones where they are able to spend the entire time doing perfect Cloak-Power-Shot cycles without ever having to fire a prox mine in haste, or use the full cloak duration to reach a fallen comrade and wait for the normal cooldown after, or spam Shield Drain as often as possible.

Because y'know... I've never seen those gold games. 

I have. They're usually speed runs, where you know in advance what map and enemy you're going to be playing against, know how your team is going to perform, and are using a loadout specifically optimized to fight that enemy so that everything goes exactly as planned.


I agree with your post though. The "weight doesn't matter" argument is pretty stupid. It matters to a degree, especially if you play U/U/G Being stuck with a 20 second cooldown while running objectives on Hydra, Dagger, Glacier and Jade in particular doesn't seem like a whole lot of fun.

[Kalas Magnus]

Raging Nug wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...
weight doesnt matter for any infiltrator.

It does if you rely on your Tactical Cloak and your recharge speed is in the negative. I don't think you'd play as an Infiltrator while carrying the Claymore and Javelin for that -200% recharge speed, would you?

Weight isn't as big a deal for Infiltrators as much as it is for the caster classes, but it still matters.

I only take notice when i stay in cloak for too long but if you are just using it for a power boost it doesnt matter. Most never take two weapons anyway so the difference between a javelin and a mantis doesnt matter to me.

[Serker31]

Black Widow kills most enemies in one body shot on Gold. Valiant may do the same with consumables, but why would you use them just to patch some weapon weakness? Ammo on BW is fine even on level I - shoot enemies and not thin air and it is going to be enough. Reload is fine - reload canceling trick is not forbidden, last time I checked. And recoil is pretty easy to compensate for. Make few practice runs with Human Soldier and Striker without recoil mod and see how real recoil looks like.
Besides, I like BW firing sound.

[tanisha__unknown]

Shooting faster than the bwidow + no recoil=triple headshot, impossible with a bwidow. + Extremely fast reload. Less weight ->faster cooldown - you sometimes need cloak for healing, too. Takes down shielded non-boss enemies like hunters, pyros, phantoms, these Cerberus-snipers and marauders  within two to three shots - on GOLD, provided they are head shots (and you added armor piercing and enhacned damage). Does a fairly good job against brutes, these Rachni artillery and atlases as well. Since the recent patch, however, it takes a while to bring down primes and killing banshees is still a pain.

Modifié par Jinx1720, 11 juin 2012 - 10:53 .

[Black Phantom]

Kalas321 wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...
weight doesnt matter for any infiltrator.

It does if you rely on your Tactical Cloak and your recharge speed is in the negative. I don't think you'd play as an Infiltrator while carrying the Claymore and Javelin for that -200% recharge speed, would you?

Weight isn't as big a deal for Infiltrators as much as it is for the caster classes, but it still matters.

I only take notice when i stay in cloak for too long but if you are just using it for a power boost it doesnt matter. Most never take two weapons anyway so the difference between a javelin and a mantis doesnt matter to me.

The difference mattered to me when I've had to sit on a 13 second cooldown while running objectives carrying an underleveled Javelin.

Or those not so rare occasions where I would have to run across the map to revive someone.

Or, you know those instances where I had to use the tactical cloak as a tactical cloak to reposition myself without getting my ass handed to me.

Also, Infiltrators that aren't the SI using single shot rifles like the Javelin and Mantis should bring a secondary weapon on Gold. The shield gate doesn't care how fast you can quickscope a Marauder, if you get swarmed by shielded enemies using a single shot rifle then you're in trouble.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 11 juin 2012 - 10:36 .

[molecularman]

I really have no idea. Feels like there's no point for infiltrators (and other classes should use other weapons). Maybe more people just have the valiant.

[BobWalt]

The Valiant is a nice gun but it is underpowered. It just does not do enough damage, for example a Paladin does much more damage.

[Lango Tango]

Well apparently I'm missing the boat on this one- what is the deal with automatic 3 sec recharges on cloak? Has this been happening the entire time I was playing infiltrator without me knowing about it?

But as for the valiant- it's a legitimate alternative to the paladin on a caster, not a ton else to be said for it- a good enough infiltrator should be better of with a BW.

Modifié par Lango Tango, 11 juin 2012 - 10:40 .

[Black Phantom]

molecularman wrote...

I really have no idea. Feels like there's no point for infiltrators (and other classes should use other weapons). Maybe more people just have the valiant.

Geth Engineer is one I can think of. Overload to strip shields/CC then headshot.

Hunter Mode recharge bonus to compensate for the decreased recharge speed. The GE is more reliant on weapons than the other engineers. (Overload is only a good damaging power on shields, and utterly useless against the reapers) 200% Recharge bonus isn't much of a help on a GE.

[We Tigers]

Because of the faster RoF and quicker reload, it does pretty much equal DPS to the Black Widow. I also find it very difficult to reload cancel (360 player), so the Valiant's quick clip is a big plus. It also has more leeway in a couple aspects; the clip that's twice as big is one way, but the other is how the lack of recoil and quick fire just lets you put three bullets on a target very quickly. From cloak, 3 valiant bodyshots will take care of most non-boss enemies anyway, so there's a bit less frustration in trying to get a quickscope headshot but having the auto aim pull your sights somewhere else.

The BW is better if you're a very good shot. I think the Valiant is a smidge better for the rest of us, especially on console.

[molecularman]

Ashen Earth wrote...

molecularman wrote...

I really have no idea. Feels like there's no point for infiltrators (and other classes should use other weapons). Maybe more people just have the valiant.

Geth Engineer is one I can think of. Overload to strip shields/CC then headshot.

Hunter Mode recharge bonus to compensate for the decreased recharge speed. The GE is more reliant on weapons than the other engineers. (Overload is only a good damaging power on shields, and utterly useless against the reapers) 200% Recharge bonus isn't much of a help on a GE.

Well, paladin is better there.

[Lango Tango]

@Ashen Earth- You are right that GE does tend to rely on weapons- overload is mainly crowd control and the turret gives you enough survivability to be out of cover a decent amount. That said, I prefer GPS on a GE- it out DPSes the valiant, helps with the crowd control theme, still hits fairly accurately at range, and gets geth damage bonus. It does enough damage that you don't need headshots on the low tier mobs and you can't get them on most bosses anyway.

[chcknwng]

BazoozooTV wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

BazoozooTV wrote...

I have both a Valiant I and Black Widow I

I prefer the Valiant I because:
1.) It shoots off those 3 shots faster (easily within tactical cloak span)
2.) It reloads faster
3.) It has twice the ammo
4.) It has less recoil for easier adjustments on shot 2 and 3
5.) It weighs significantly less so I can spam energy drain or proximity mines
Plus with Extended Barrel and AP mod (both at 5) it only deals slightly less damage than the BW

weight doesnt matter for any infiltrator.

I've heard that said many times but I don't subscribe to that line of thinking. I enjoy using energy drain/proximity mines. 

they say that not because other SIs are not spamming EDs and PMs. Weight doesn't matter because the cooldown on infiltrators, especially that of cloak is determined by how long you stay in cloak, not the power casted. So when you spam your power in cloak and then shoot, your cool down should be around 3 seconds if you didn't cloak very long.

[Black Phantom]

molecularman wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

molecularman wrote...

I really have no idea. Feels like there's no point for infiltrators (and other classes should use other weapons). Maybe more people just have the valiant.

Geth Engineer is one I can think of. Overload to strip shields/CC then headshot.

Hunter Mode recharge bonus to compensate for the decreased recharge speed. The GE is more reliant on weapons than the other engineers. (Overload is only a good damaging power on shields, and utterly useless against the reapers) 200% Recharge bonus isn't much of a help on a GE.

Well, paladin is better there.

I'd take a Valiant for the scope (Which means I can be farther away from the enemy and still get headshots fairly easily), extra ammo, and lack of recoil. A Paladin might be better on smaller maps, sure.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 11 juin 2012 - 10:47 .

[Kalas Magnus]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...
weight doesnt matter for any infiltrator.

It does if you rely on your Tactical Cloak and your recharge speed is in the negative. I don't think you'd play as an Infiltrator while carrying the Claymore and Javelin for that -200% recharge speed, would you?

Weight isn't as big a deal for Infiltrators as much as it is for the caster classes, but it still matters.

I only take notice when i stay in cloak for too long but if you are just using it for a power boost it doesnt matter. Most never take two weapons anyway so the difference between a javelin and a mantis doesnt matter to me.

The difference mattered to me when I've had to sit on a 13 second cooldown while running objectives carrying an underleveled Javelin.

Or those not so rare occasions where I would have to run across the map to revive someone.

Or, you know those instances where I had to use the tactical cloak as a tactical cloak to reposition myself without getting my ass handed to me.

Also, Infiltrators that aren't the SI using single shot rifles like the Javelin and Mantis should bring a secondary weapon on Gold. The shield gate doesn't care how fast you can quickscope a Marauder, if you get swarmed by shielded enemies using a single shot rifle then you're in trouble.

That has never been a problem for me. Even when running to objectives but then the heaviest weapon i use is claymore X. Non-salarian infiltrators should be using others weapons anyway. The clamore or krysae are great weapons that bypass shield gate and use the cloak to its full potential.

Not to metion a geth infiltrator hosting with geth shotgun is just godly.

Modifié par Kalas321, 11 juin 2012 - 10:50 .

[Mystical_Gaming]

I've used the Valiant in Gold before and it works very well. I'd say the gun makes up from damage with speed. The black widow is just raw damage. Both are good but I've been using my valiant a lot more recently.

[Black Phantom]

Kalas321 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Raging Nug wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...
weight doesnt matter for any infiltrator.

It does if you rely on your Tactical Cloak and your recharge speed is in the negative. I don't think you'd play as an Infiltrator while carrying the Claymore and Javelin for that -200% recharge speed, would you?

Weight isn't as big a deal for Infiltrators as much as it is for the caster classes, but it still matters.

I only take notice when i stay in cloak for too long but if you are just using it for a power boost it doesnt matter. Most never take two weapons anyway so the difference between a javelin and a mantis doesnt matter to me.

The difference mattered to me when I've had to sit on a 13 second cooldown while running objectives carrying an underleveled Javelin.

Or those not so rare occasions where I would have to run across the map to revive someone.

Or, you know those instances where I had to use the tactical cloak as a tactical cloak to reposition myself without getting my ass handed to me.

Also, Infiltrators that aren't the SI using single shot rifles like the Javelin and Mantis should bring a secondary weapon on Gold. The shield gate doesn't care how fast you can quickscope a Marauder, if you get swarmed by shielded enemies using a single shot rifle then you're in trouble.

That has never been a problem for me. Even when running to objectives but then the heaviest weapon i use is claymore X. Non-salarian infiltrators should be using others weapons anyway. The clamore or krysae are great weapons that bypass shield gate and use the cloak to its full potential.

Then you wouldn't know. A Claymore X doesn't totally kill your power cooldown. However, the Javelin at rank X leaves you at a 0% bonus. It's a pain at lower levels.

And there is nothing wrong with other infiltrators using single shot weapons. Sabotage will strip shields and the GI with a level X Javelin using the right setup and equipment can kill Brutes and Ravagers in one shot. I'd say that's "using cloak to it's full potential", especially seeing as enemy weak points were patched out.

You definitely need a plan B for the shielded enemies though.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 11 juin 2012 - 10:54 .

[XXIceColdXX]

I prefer other sniper rifles. The Valiant seems like a beginners weapon, too easy to use, a little boring.

I prefer a weapon with a bit more of a learning curve, and hits a bit harder per shot.

[Stance Punk]

All 3 shots have the tactical cloak bonus. Faster reload. Stability.

[Kildin_of_the_Volus]

Personal preference really. I absolutely love my valiant IV on my SI. I can mow down enemies just as fast (or faster) than a BW user, yet have a much better cool down for revives and objective waves.

[AdamWeith]

NobleVigilante wrote...

It's name.

We have a winner.

PS. Dat narcissism

[Hexi-decimal]

Kalas321 wrote...

BazoozooTV wrote...

I have both a Valiant I and Black Widow I

I prefer the Valiant I because:
1.) It shoots off those 3 shots faster (easily within tactical cloak span)
2.) It reloads faster
3.) It has twice the ammo
4.) It has less recoil for easier adjustments on shot 2 and 3
5.) It weighs significantly less so I can spam energy drain or proximity mines
Plus with Extended Barrel and AP mod (both at 5) it only deals slightly less damage than the BW

weight doesnt matter for any infiltrator.

It does matter, just not as much.  I wish people would quit saying this.