55 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

This post is an attempt to propose a compromise.

I know DA2 restricted conversations with our companions to specific locations so the cinematics guys could stage better scenes.  I understand that this is something BioWare thinks is important.

In doing so, however, they rendered the companions little more than puppets outside of those specific locations.  DA2 allowed us to speak with our companions at any time, but not at any location.

I propose that BioWare can still limit major conversations to fixed locations to enable those big cinematic scenes, but still allow some limited interaction with the companions at any location (as DAO did).

Let us talk to them wherever we like, even if there isn't much actual conversation content in most areas.  If we pass a landmark about which we think a companion might know something relevant, let us check by starting a conversation.  Even if there's nothing relevant among the limited dialogue options, as least let us try.

Another option is to have those detailed cinematic scenes occur at pre-determined locations, but not always the same locations.  And let the companions initiate dialogue with the PC.  So, if when walking through a particular ruin, companion A has relevant information to share, have companion A start a conversation.  Why should the PC always be the one to speak first?

Ideally, I'd like to see both of these implemented (well, ideally I'd like to see an end to cinematic dialogue, but that's beyond the scope of this proposal).

[wsandista]

It seems like you want to return to how dialogue was handled in DAO.

I endorse this proposal.

EDIT:
Also I would like to suggest having some conversations in a non-cinematic way, with text-boxes or something similar. Something like NWN would be perfect.

Modifié par wsandista, 12 juin 2012 - 04:18 .

[thats1evildude]

I tended to only talk to companions back at camp, unless there was some event or setting-specific conversation I needed to have elsewhere. If they only made it possible to talk to companions at one central location, I'd chat with them there.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 12 juin 2012 - 04:18 .

[TEWR]

This gets the TEWR Seal of Approval.


(I'm always going to post this image when something I see gets my staunch approval. I like it that much)

I agree with everything Sylvius said, save for the last bit where he says that he would like cinematic dialogue to be gone.

I'd also like a central hub feature. DAO had the camp (which was kinda.... blandly done), DAII could've had the Hanged Man's Night version. There, we would not only see all the companions doing their own thing -- talking with NPCs -- but also interacting with each other.

Maybe even talking about completed quests, reflecting on what the PC did. And maybe we could have some dialogue with them there.

And this would happen in conjunction with the companion specific homes idea DAII did and, if possible, Sylvius' idea.

Ideally, anyway. Soldier's Peak was the first opportunity for this idea to be provided, where your companions are seen helping restore the Keep and as you build up an army you also see some people there from the various factions -- Mages, Templars, Elves, Dwarves, refugees, etc. And they'd be training, working on the Keep, etc.

Redcliffe had NPCs from factions there, but.... I dunno. Didn't seem like enough, or that it was given its due.

Had Soldier's Peak been done the method I'm proposing, you'd see the companions doing their own thing, talking with each other, helping to restore the Keep, etc.

But anyway, I like Sylvius' idea.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 juin 2012 - 04:54 .

[LolaLei]

I think the DA team suggested at PAX that they had a hypothetical idea for a compromise on this subject planned in DA3. I know one of them said something about being able to do better than the whole campfire thing in DA:O, so I'll be very intrigued to see what they've come up with.

I'd love to be able to see our companions during "down-time" between quests chilling out in various places around Orlesian cities/environments or whatever, that would make for some interesting companion conversations/interactions.

[LolaLei]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I agree with everything Sylvius said, save for the last bit where he says that he would like cinematic dialogue to be gone.

I'd also like a central hub feature. DAO had the camp (which was kinda.... blandly done), DAII could've had the Hanged Man's Night version. There, we would not only see all the companions doing their own thing -- talking with NPCs -- but also interacting with each other.

Maybe even talking about completed quests, reflecting on what the PC did. And maybe we could have some dialogue with them there.

And this would happen in conjunction with the companion specific homes idea DAII did and, if possible, Sylvius' idea.

Oooo I like that idea a lot! Having them all doing their own thing during the day when they aren't with you or between quests like chilling out/working/getting drunk/whatever and then at night having a home hub where everyone gathers to rest and chat in more depth about quest related stuff, etc would be an awesome way to bring the best elements of both DA:O and DA2's companion interaction into DA3.

Modifié par LolaLei, 12 juin 2012 - 05:03 .

[wsandista]

Damn you TEWR, stop outdoing everyone with your magnificent seal.

I suggest that Sylvius the Mad be the lead designer for DA3.

It isn't like much could be worse than DA2.

[ev76]

More dialogue please, also dialogue wheel should pop up in relevant areas to each companion not just banter. I think somebody already mentioned this earlier in the thread.

[Sylvius the Mad]

wsandista wrote...

Also I would like to suggest having some conversations in a non-cinematic way, with text-boxes or something similar. Something like NWN would be perfect.

Text boxes are just about the best thing that can ever appear in a UI.  Combat feedback - dialogue history - there's tons of information I want about the game that is best provided in a text box.

[wsandista]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Also I would like to suggest having some conversations in a non-cinematic way, with text-boxes or something similar. Something like NWN would be perfect.

Text boxes are just about the best thing that can ever appear in a UI.  Combat feedback - dialogue history - there's tons of information I want about the game that is best provided in a text box.

Absolutely. While I loved NWN2, I preferred NNN because there were no cinematic conversations. Also it seems to be less costly than cinematic cut-scenes so resources could be spent on more content.

[Ponendus]

Agreed. There were several times in DAO where a cinematic with dialogue would trigger as one would be out and about with the companions. You are absolutely right that the PC does not need to be the one to start a conversation, and I believe having to do so all the time really disconnects you from the other characters. It is the unexpected interruption that makes it fun, and dare I say, realistic.

[Lord Gremlin]

I would say - allow us to talk to companions anywhere, but lock certain specific conversations to camp/home.

[Vincent Laww]

Talking to subordinate characters is a key component of Dragon Age Games. Talking to them in specific environment should trigger unique texts/responses.

[Jerrybnsn]

I liked the way Origins gave the illusion of spontaneous conversations by clicking on a companion anywhere. It seemed more natural the way people would bring up something that's on their mind and could come up anywhere when you least expect it through accidently clicking on one of your companions. For instance, you could be just finished defeating a group in the Brecclain Forest and as your picking up your loot you accidently click on Morrigan and up popped a cutscene of Morrigan saying "So....you and Leliana?"

Of course, it has its drawbacks such as being in the middle of a fight for your life in Drake's Keep and you accidently click on Alistair and he says "What do you need?" I need you the get the Hell out of my way so I can kill more Darkspawn, that's what I need!

[thats1evildude]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Of course, it has its drawbacks such as being in the middle of a fight for your life in Drake's Keep and you accidently click on Alistair and he says "What do you need?" I need you the get the Hell out of my way so I can kill more Darkspawn, that's what I need!

"Even though we're in the middle of the Deep Roads, this is the perfect time for me to confess my feelings for you!"

[Jerrybnsn]

thats1evildude wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Of course, it has its drawbacks such as being in the middle of a fight for your life in Drake's Keep and you accidently click on Alistair and he says "What do you need?" I need you the get the Hell out of my way so I can kill more Darkspawn, that's what I need!

"Even though we're in the middle of the Deep Roads, this is the perfect time for me to confess my feelings for you!"

Isn't that what King Maric said to Alistair's mom?

[R2s Muse]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Of course, it has its drawbacks such as being in the middle of a fight for your life in Drake's Keep and you accidently click on Alistair and he says "What do you need?" I need you the get the Hell out of my way so I can kill more Darkspawn, that's what I need!

"Even though we're in the middle of the Deep Roads, this is the perfect time for me to confess my feelings for you!"

Isn't that what King Maric said to Alistair's mom?

OMG, this made me LOL. Good one! My inner eight-year old for some reason wants to yell, "Burn!" even tho it makes no sense...

Anyhoo... Since no one has mentioned it, isn't OP's suggestion of certain locations for dialogue just like what they did in Awakenings? I personally found that rather frustrating, since there would be somethiing I obviously was supposed to click on... but I never knew which companion it was supposed to be, so many times I'd get... nothing. Since BW quickly ditched that model for interaction, there are probably other concerns they had as well, but it's been a while since I've played it now...

Modifié par R2s Muse, 12 juin 2012 - 05:18 .

[thats1evildude]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Isn't that what King Maric said to Alistair's mom?

More like, that's what Alistair's mom said to King Maric. 

[joshko]

I like the idea.

[Jerrybnsn]

thats1evildude wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Isn't that what King Maric said to Alistair's mom?

More like, that's what Alistair's mom said to King Maric. 

naw....Alistair's mom really had a strong distrust of humans with authority, for good reason.  Maric was the one with an uncontrolable elvish fetish.  I guess he never saw a Free March elf.

[brushyourteeth]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I agree with everything Sylvius said, save for the last bit where he says that he would like cinematic dialogue to be gone.

I'd also like a central hub feature. DAO had the camp (which was kinda.... blandly done), DAII could've had the Hanged Man's Night version. There, we would not only see all the companions doing their own thing -- talking with NPCs -- but also interacting with each other.

Maybe even talking about completed quests, reflecting on what the PC did. And maybe we could have some dialogue with them there.

And this would happen in conjunction with the companion specific homes idea DAII did and, if possible, Sylvius' idea.

*snip* 

Yeah, I completely concur with TEWR (hooray!) - especially about how the Hanged Man would have been a great hub.

There are definitely some situations with your companions where it feels weird not to talk. For instance, as Alistair's girlfriend it was vital for my character to be able to question him immediately when we found out Eamon planned to put him forward as king. Not later, not after this next quest, not after I explain to Sten that I'm both a woman and warrior and I am, yes, going to destroy the Archdemon and send him back to Par Vollen. Right now, dangit. If I'd needed to wait for a quest prompt to do it I'd have been one angry, un-immersed gamer for sure.

And I also like the idea of other companions starting up the conversations instead of it always being you. I'm thinking back to playing the KotoR games and how your jedi-sense would start tingling and you'd just *know* that a companion wanted to talk. That was cheesy. It would be neat, however to have circumstances where you were sometimes prompted by another companion to seek someone else in the party out. It never felt organic to me in DAII to somehow *know* that Anders wanted to talk. There was no note from him or anything? Instead we could have had Varric say "Hey Hawke, you may want to check on Blondie. He's been even less himself than usual, and that's saying something."

Though I have to hand it to DAII that the sheer amount of party panter made me often forget that I couldn't talk to my companions everywhere. It felt like conversation was still happening, even if it wasn't set at my pace. I'm also a great advocate for just flat-out more dialogue now that we're leaving the rivalry system. Like a cookie monster, but with character development.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 12 juin 2012 - 08:46 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

brushyourteeth wrote...

It never felt organic to me in DAII to somehow *know* that Anders wanted to talk. There was no note from him or anything?

Because I refused to read DA2's journal (too much metagame information), I never knew when my companions wanted to talk.

Though I have to hand it to DAII that the sheer amount of party panter made me often forget that I couldn't talk to my companions everywhere. It felt like conversation was still happening, even if it wasn't set at my pace.

When Hawke took part in the ambient banter of Legacy, I nearly punched my computer.  That was an unbelievably bad idea.

[MichaelStuart]

I support being able to talk to companions at any time.

I also support having all the companions in one area, mainly so I don't have to go threw loading screens.
The area should should change depending on were you are(if your in the wilderness, it should be a camp. If your in a city, it should be inn)

A problem I had about the dialog with companions in both games was that you couldn't talk about non-character related subjects. I think it would be great to able to talk about more random stuff.

Modifié par MichaelStuart, 12 juin 2012 - 10:31 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I propose that BioWare can still limit major conversations to fixed
locations to enable those big cinematic scenes, but still allow some
limited interaction with the companions at any location (as DAO did).

For me, it comes down only wanting choices that matter.  I would rather have fewer locations with cinematic dialogue that contains real information about the scene, the zone, or the story than many places to click on characters and check for possible new dialogue.  I don't want to spend time checking to see if I missed anything a character might know about The Evil In The Tower as I'm traveling up the path to the tower.  I want to run into the tower and kick Evil in the balls.

Let us talk to them wherever we like, even if there isn't much actual conversation content in most areas.  If we pass a landmark about which we think a companion might know something relevant, let us check by starting a conversation.  Even if there's nothing relevant among the limited dialogue options, as least let us try.

I really liked how in Awakening you would find random world objects and click on them and Anders would start talking about how big Andraste's boobs might have been or Oghren would talk about having a rash in his no-no place.  I could totally go for landmark originated conversations in DA3, but I would like some kind of world notification, like the glittery things near the lake in the MotA, rather than having to click and run, click and run, ad nauseum.

Another option is to have those detailed cinematic scenes occur at pre-determined locations, but not always the same locations. 

Intrigued!  :happy:  I need examples though.  How do you see that happening?  Like...  You tell Leliana that she's the bee's knees and then the next city the party travels to, she and the Warden sneak off and each city has its own love scene?  Or, Shepard befriends Miranda, but the next symbol of wealth you come across, she does her speach from Illium, only tailored to the symbol the party passes?

And let the companions initiate dialogue with the PC.  So, if when walking through a particular ruin, companion A has relevant information to share, have companion A start a conversation.  Why should the PC always be the one to speak first?

I could also go for this... but it seems that this sort of thing is best served with middle of the level cutscenes.  Like during the flight from Lothering, when combat cuts directly to a cut scene and Hawke's family starts talking about their escape.  Or any cutscene that comes after the death of a boss.  Those seem like more efficient ways of a companion starting a dialogue, rather than having an animation of Merrill running along, tugging at Hawke's sleeve.  Or, even worse, Fenris running along going "sigh.  Sigh.  SIGH" for ten minutes.