37 réponses à ce sujet

[AshenSugar]

I DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN AND WOULD BE VERY UPSET IF IT DID!
THE POST BELOW IT IS MERELY A PREDICTION BASED UPON MY FEARS OVER WHAT BIOWARE MIGHT DO, BASED ON THE THOUGHT PROCESSES AT PLAY DURING THE WRITING OF MASS EFFECT 3!


It wouldn't surprise me at all if they used Morrigan as a major antagonist in Dragon Age 3. It would not come as a shock if her character was retconned into chaotic evil, and she became some kind of dark queen, who acted as a constant foil for your DA:3 character; sending her waves of evil minions against you at every turn, and wiping out random villages for teh lulz.
 
The overarching story of the Mage rebellion would be told from a fairly high and remote standpoint, and act more as a backdrop to the story than something you directly interact with.
 
Ultimately there would be some kind of showdown with 'chaotic evil Morrigan', and her 'God Child' would be revealed as a demonic entity hell-bent upon destroying the Chantry, usurping it with Tevinteresque Old God worship.
 
The 'shock reveal' is that the entire Mage rebellion beginning in Kirkwall was sparked through the nefarious and subtle machinations of the 'evil God Child'. The 'God Child's' influence is also used as a handy explanation as to why Morrigan had turned completely to the dark side. (Bioware seem to have a thing with 'God Children' don't they?)
 
 
Now, if all the above seems far-fetched and ridiculous, consider Cerberus in the Mass Effect universe.
 
 
ME:1 saw Cerberus as a fairly anonymous quasi-terrorist organisation, not really fleshed out, but acting mostly as a minor side plot.
 
ME:2 saw a radical shift in focus, in which Cerberus became a morally ambiguous organisation, acting upon their own humans-first goals, but with unknown long-term goals. It was possible to identify with The Illusive Man, even broadly share his views... but there was always something about him that made him impossible to fully trust. There was a constant sense that he had his own secret agenda, and would betray you without hesitation if it helped further his goals. Your working for him was very much a marriage of convenience on both sides.
 
Compare this to Morrigan in Dragon Age Origins. The resemblances are more than superficial.
 
 
ME:3 saw Cerberus retconned into chaotic evil. The Illusive Man acted as a constant foil for Shepard, and was the main antagonist within the game, sending waves of evil minions against you, and wiping out random bases for teh lulz..
 
The overarching story of the Reaper invasion was told from a fairly high and remote standpoint, and acted more as a backdrop to the story. Cerberus were the goad who very-often drove your actions and dictated your responses.
 
The 'shock reveal' was that The Illusive Man's descent into chaotic evil was sparked through the nefarious and subtle machinations of Reaper indoctrination.
 
 
It would not surprise me in the least if Bioware was to use essentially the same story in Dragon Age 3. It would provide cool boss fights, a good excuse for endless combat scenarios, and a more 'personal' enemy for the player to interact with.
 
 
...... Needless to say I truly hope that I am utterly wrong on every single count!

Edited and underlined, as several people seem to have not read this post properly, and assumed that I actually like the scenario I described above. This isn't the case, it was intended as a prediction, not a reflection of my own personal feelings.

Modifié par AshenSugar, 13 juin 2012 - 08:51 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

...No.

[AshenSugar]

If you are going to argue against it, it makes sense to actually provide a basis for your arguments, as replying with a one word answer feels more like spam.

[Androme]

What I fear BioWare will do to ''bring a proper closure to the OGB and Morrigan/Flemeth story'' is by creating some cheap secondary quests in the beginning of the game where you randomly stumble upon Morrigan and kill her because she has become wicked, and then call it a ''closure''.

[AshenSugar]

*shudder* I hope not, as that would be even worse that the horrible, cheap scenario I described in my opening post.

[Great_Horn]

[quote]AshenSugar wrote...

My Plot Prediction for Dragon Age 3:
 
It wouldn't surprise me at all if they used Morrigan as a major antagonist in Dragon Age 3. It would not come as a shock if her character was retconned into chaotic evil, and she became some kind of dark queen, who acted as a constant foil for your DA:3 character; sending her waves of evil minions against you at every turn, and wiping out random villages for teh lulz.

[Snip ...] [quote].


ROFL. Serious?

Have you read the novel Asunder? That’s what the story will be all about.

As for your idée. Well, this would be the worst thing they could do.

Morrigan, has her own plans and motivations. Beside this she has a 10 year old son she had to take care. Seeing Morrigan getting involved into the upcoming conflict wouldn’t fit IMO. As for turning Morrigan into a simple evil antagonist would personally destroy the entire franchise for me.  Lets hope she doesn’t appear in DA:3 at all, cause the developing team already has a lot loose ends to deal with.

Modifié par Great_Horn, 12 juin 2012 - 10:49 .

[EricHVela]

When they released Dragon Age: Origins, I figured that there would be a long line of games to follow. I saw DA:O as the prequel to a story.

When Dragon Age: Kirkwall became Dragon Age ][, it suggested to me that there was only going to be one more game after that and that they would try to wrap everything up in a hurry. There's too much left to explore. A single game cannot cover it all.

Yet, I'm certain that's where this is going.

I wish DA:O was the prequel and that DA2 was DA:K instead and that they would take their time to explore the nuances of Thedas in a series of games.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 12 juin 2012 - 04:00 .

[Legacy_of_Wrex]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Yeah, the same will be about The Hero of Ferelden and Hawke, there will a quest about both then somehow they are already dead, the new character just get their special items such as "Armor of the Hero of Ferelden" or "Staff of the Champion of Kirkwall" or something

See, this is something I could very much see (and I fear it will) happen. DA3 won't be able to handle three created characters at once (but maybe they'll give both the Warden and Hawke helmets, you never know), and so despite how you play DA and DA2, your characters dies or are never seen again, third hero's the charm.

Acceptable as a story, sure, but to me, playing with a character, make choices, gather companions and fight for his/her and their lives and survive at all odds just to - ups, you're dead in the next game anyway, might as well do the US in DAO and gain some goodwill with the maker.

Of course, DA2 just had to finish with the:
Cassandra: We need the Champion, but he/she's gone!
Leliana: I seek the Warden's help, but he/she's gone!

Somehow, I predict my Warden and Hawke's eventual deaths in DA3 is gonna ruin DAO and DA2. I'll know they die, and what do your new character get? Minor changes in dialogue/which characters you meet.

I hope DA3 will surprise me.

[DarkDragon777]

That plotline of yours is atrocious.

Translation: No.

[RedArmyShogun]

Lol Wut? Wut is this?

Lol No.

[AshenSugar]

...... Needless to say I truly hope that I am utterly wrong on every single count!

I'll just quote that line from my post one more time, as it seems that several people just skim read it, and seem to think that I actually endorse the so-called 'plotline' in my original post. No.. I posted it mostly because I considered the scenario to be such a horrible thought, that there's a danger it might actually come true!

[M0RD3CA1 VII]

I read the first post and glanced at the rest, but there seems to be some logic missing. Even as dark as she is, Morrigan has never struck me as an evil person, severly misunderstood but not evil. Not everybody actually did the Dark Ritual, so Bioware cannot really use that as a Plot Device, unless it ends up having a major impact on a more then majoy storyline in DA3.

Likewise, I would expect Flemteth to be the main villain before Morrigan, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if she ended up being an ally, and a major one at that.

We know the third game will center around three major storylines, most likely. Those being:

1) War between Ferelden and Orlais
2) The conflict between the mages and templars
3) And the Qunari threat of invasion

All of these together leading to the possibility of another Exalted March ...

Now we KNOW that things are going on outside of Kirkwall DURING DA2, info via Stroud in the middle of the Qunari assault, and Nathaniel who speaks of strange allies (Darkspawn!?), and also the King of Queen of Ferelden ...

Alot of things in DA2 are setting up for some major storylines, that if done properly, could end up making one of the best games ever made.

That said, I hope Bioware is serious about taking our input, and will not make the same horrid mistakes they made with Dragon Age 2 ...

[rhodastra]

ReggarBlane wrote...
[snip snip snip]
I wish DA:O was the prequel and that DA2 was DA:K instead and that they would take their time to explore the nuances of Thedas in a series of games.

I really have no opinion regarding what the actual plot will be like, but I would love to see this! Personally, I'm a sucker for world exploration and history (the codex is probably one of my favourite parts of the series thus far), and I'm an especially big sucker for world exploration that also involves me in the sort of stories the games have told so far.

I really hope it won't end with three games only. Don't the Ages span for about a century each? I should think hope the Dragon Age is not over yet.

[DPSSOC]

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...

I read the first post and glanced at the rest, but there seems to be some logic missing. Even as dark as she is, Morrigan has never struck me as an evil person, severly misunderstood but not evil. Not everybody actually did the Dark Ritual, so Bioware cannot really use that as a Plot Device, unless it ends up having a major impact on a more then majoy storyline in DA3.

 
Not everybody recruited Lelianna, not everybody kept her alive, not everybody picked up Anders, and on and on.  The DA team has shown that they will set aside player choice to tell the story they want to tell.  Not necessarily a bad thing mind, but it means that we shouldn't put much faith in the idea that something being optional will keep it from showing up.

[M0RD3CA1 VII]

DPSSOC wrote...

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...

I read the first post and glanced at the rest, but there seems to be some logic missing. Even as dark as she is, Morrigan has never struck me as an evil person, severly misunderstood but not evil. Not everybody actually did the Dark Ritual, so Bioware cannot really use that as a Plot Device, unless it ends up having a major impact on a more then majoy storyline in DA3.

 
Not everybody recruited Lelianna, not everybody kept her alive, not everybody picked up Anders, and on and on.  The DA team has shown that they will set aside player choice to tell the story they want to tell.  Not necessarily a bad thing mind, but it means that we shouldn't put much faith in the idea that something being optional will keep it from showing up.

If Bioware forces the Dark Ritual into peoples' games, they will almost quite literally be shoving the murder knife into their own face(s).

The only one with Leliana is if you killed, via decapitation as I've heard but not seen, and then she still shows up in DA2. I agree, that doesn't make much sense. I don't think it really matters if you recruit Anders in your Awakening game, because he apparently still becomes a Grey Warden and still gets super raped by Justice lol ...

[Merlex]

AshenSugar wrote...

My Plot Prediction for Dragon Age 3:
 
It wouldn't surprise me at all if they used Morrigan as a major antagonist in Dragon Age 3. It would not come as a shock if her character was retconned into chaotic evil, and she became some kind of dark queen, who acted as a constant foil for your DA:3 character; sending her waves of evil minions against you at every turn, and wiping out random villages for teh lulz.
 
The overarching story of the Mage rebellion would be told from a fairly high and remote standpoint, and act more as a backdrop to the story than something you directly interact with.
 
Ultimately there would be some kind of showdown with 'chaotic evil Morrigan', and her 'God Child' would be revealed as a demonic entity hell-bent upon destroying the Chantry, usurping it with Tevinteresque Old God worship.
 
The 'shock reveal' is that the entire Mage rebellion beginning in Kirkwall was sparked through the nefarious and subtle machinations of the 'evil God Child'. The 'God Child's' influence is also used as a handy explanation as to why Morrigan had turned completely to the dark side. (Bioware seem to have a thing with 'God Children' don't they?)
 
 
Now, if all the above seems far-fetched and ridiculous, consider Cerberus in the Mass Effect universe.
 
 
ME:1 saw Cerberus as a fairly anonymous quasi-terrorist organisation, not really fleshed out, but acting mostly as a minor side plot.
 
ME:2 saw a radical shift in focus, in which Cerberus became a morally ambiguous organisation, acting upon their own humans-first goals, but with unknown long-term goals. It was possible to identify with The Illusive Man, even broadly share his views... but there was always something about him that made him impossible to fully trust. There was a constant sense that he had his own secret agenda, and would betray you without hesitation if it helped further his goals. Your working for him was very much a marriage of convenience on both sides.
 
Compare this to Morrigan in Dragon Age Origins. The resemblances are more than superficial.
 
 
ME:3 saw Cerberus retconned into chaotic evil. The Illusive Man acted as a constant foil for Shepard, and was the main antagonist within the game, sending waves of evil minions against you, and wiping out random bases for teh lulz..
 
The overarching story of the Reaper invasion was told from a fairly high and remote standpoint, and acted more as a backdrop to the story. Cerberus were the goad who very-often drove your actions and dictated your responses.
 
The 'shock reveal' was that The Illusive Man's descent into chaotic evil was sparked through the nefarious and subtle machinations of Reaper indoctrination.
 
 
It would not surprise me in the least if Bioware was to use essentially the same story in Dragon Age 3. It would provide cool boss fights, a good excuse for endless combat scenarios, and a more 'personal' enemy for the player to interact with.
 
 
...... Needless to say I truly hope that I am utterly wrong on every single count!

Edited and underlined, as several people seem to have not read this post properly, and assumed that I actually like the scenario I described above. This isn't the case, it was intended as a prediction, not a reflection of my own personal feelings.

The more i played da2, the more i got a sense of something deeper going on, a grand plan. That the lyrium statue, Meredith, Orsino, templars being taken over by Abominations, crazed Bloodmages everywhere... I kept waiting for the man behind the curtain to be revealed. So you may be right.

I do thing that something wanted the Mage/ Templar war to happen. Maybe it's not Morrigan. Maybe it's one of the old gods, or something powerful from the fade.

I do hope something deeper is going on, to make sense of DA2. I like epic, world's in peril type stories.

[wsandista]

No

retcons are not good.

[AshenSugar]

wsandista wrote...

No

retcons are not good.

I underlined and highlighted in red the point where I stated that this was a prediction of what I feared Bioware might do, rather than any kind of personal preference.

[Urzon]

I wish people would stop using the word "retcon". Even more so, when they don't use it correctly.

[DPSSOC]

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...

I read the first post and glanced at the rest, but there seems to be some logic missing. Even as dark as she is, Morrigan has never struck me as an evil person, severly misunderstood but not evil. Not everybody actually did the Dark Ritual, so Bioware cannot really use that as a Plot Device, unless it ends up having a major impact on a more then majoy storyline in DA3.

 
Not everybody recruited Lelianna, not everybody kept her alive, not everybody picked up Anders, and on and on.  The DA team has shown that they will set aside player choice to tell the story they want to tell.  Not necessarily a bad thing mind, but it means that we shouldn't put much faith in the idea that something being optional will keep it from showing up.

If Bioware forces the Dark Ritual into peoples' games, they will almost quite literally be shoving the murder knife into their own face(s).

Actually it's really easy for them to work this out without even touching the Warden's actions.  Just say that after approaching the Warden and being refused Morrigan approached the other Warden (Loghain or Alistair) and they agreed.  Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt, God Baby's in your game.

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...
The only one with Leliana is if you killed, via decapitation as I've heard but not seen, and then she still shows up in DA2. I agree, that doesn't make much sense.

 
It's killing Lelianna period, the game rather definitively says she's dead.  Now before people start arguing I'll concede they might have a perfectly sensible explanation, and that's fine, but it's still them choosing to ignore player choice to tell their story.  Again that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it sets the precedent that just because something's optional doesn't mean they can't use it later regardless of your choices.  Again, again the writers will no doubt come up with explanations for those as well, and that's great, but it doesn't change what they've done.

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...
I don't think it really matters if you recruit Anders in your Awakening game, because he apparently still becomes a Grey Warden and still gets super raped by Justice lol ...

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.  The player can choose not to recruit Anders and have Justice die at the Keep so it's impossible for Anders to ever meet him, and it doesn't effect a thing.  There's a long list of circumstances the player can craft that make Anders situation in DA2 difficult, if not impossible, that the game doesn't acknowledge.  The only acknowledgement I have heard of the fact that Anders died in DA2 only fits if Justice was at the Keep with Anders, or Anders multi-classes as a rogue.

Once again I'm not saying the writers setting aside player choice for the sake of the narrative is in and of itself bad, I'm just acknowledging that they did it in DA2 and they could do it again in DA3.  It could be something minor like regardless of what you actually chose Hawke dueled the Arishok, or it could be something major like who you sided with or, as you brought up, whether the Warden did the DR.

[LolaLei]

OP... for some reason your prediction reminds me of the Beowulf movie LOL!

[AndrahilAdrian]

Since the OGB doesn't exist in my playthrough, I'm guessing this won't happen. It can't have a big role, because it only exists for half the players.

[AshenSugar]

AndrahilAdrian wrote...

Since the OGB doesn't exist in my playthrough, I'm guessing this won't happen. It can't have a big role, because it only exists for half the players.

I think DPSSOC addressed this quite well in his post. 

It's possible  that the writers might still consider the OGB to be canon, regardless of player choices in Origins, just as Anders appeared in DA:2, even if not recruited in Awakening...even if he died in the Keep during the final battle! Just as Anders is host for Justice even if Justice died during the final battle in the keep.

Same with Leliana, even if she attacks, and is killed by the Warden after accepting the quest to defile the Sacred Ashes...there she is in DA:2, very much alive and kicking.

And yeah, I guess my 'prediction' is a little simlar to the Beowulf movie, only mine sucks slightly more.