294 réponses à ce sujet

[Sam -stone- serious]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

 That was just my personal opinion on things, and I wasn't defending or attacking anyone with it. Now you are just getting antsy.

Saying the VOs in DA were, "meh" is really... odd. It doesn't boil down to taste, in the end. There has to be some artistic merit that you have to give. DA has fine VO in it, and I really don't think you can deny that.

I didnt attack you at all. I said that the difference between the reviewer and you was that he DID  care about the games shortcomings and made sure for readers to know while you couldnt give a rats ass about them.

When i read a review i -expect- to know the games mechanics and problems inside out and i expect the reviewer to put a proper score based on what the game has and/ or has not. Edge gave you the bare bone facts. IGN  made it clear that it didnt really care about the problems (go read IGNs review, you would think that the developers spit in the reviewers coffee) and that was the prime difference in those 2 very similar reviews. Try not to read the score in the end. Read the full articles and form your own opinion about the end "score".

Its the same to you. Does your opinion get any worse due to the games shortcoming? No but i dont expect to see your "enthusiasm" poured into a review and have you misslead me for it. I expect to know what the game does well and what not and i expect to see a proper score based on that. Whether the game is good or not its for me alone to say for myself.

As for the voice-overs. I cant really feel they are good apart from a few exceptions. The British voice overs sound fake, forced and wholly unnatural while the voice overs from the secondary characters are basic at best.

P.S. In the end i dont know what kind of reader you are but prefer reading and scoring based on what the game has to offer, problems, glitches that NEED  to be reflected into the end score and mentioned into the review. I dont want fanboism, i dont want for a game to be given extra marks because the reviewer "loved it", i want the cold truth plain and apparent. All else is for me to discover. Simple as this.

[Sam -stone- serious]

That will be a long quote.

Take it out of context if you will then.

[Bomfy]

I'm a little curious about it now, I'm doubtful I will be able to pick up and issue at one of my local stores, some have a good selection of magazines from around the world. But if I found one I doubt I'd spend the $9-10 it'd cost anyway. I sadly can't bring myself to look through it in the store either, I hate when people do that, it's not a damn library.

I first off knowing squat about them when I read the review. It seemed biased a fair bit to me, I'm not saying DA:O is a 10. I think it's a stellar game, but rarely is a game a 10. But a 5 is bordering on unfair. I don't see the cons outweighing the pros that much. Just my opinion.

I did hit their site up and noticed they have a tendency to be lower when others are higher. Not a terribly huge fan of the site, I'm assuming the bracketed number at the end is the score? I sure a hell think Valkyria Chronicles deserves more than a 7, and so did most of the reviewing world.

They appear to do well enough to keep themselves afloat, as for them being the be all and end all, I don't see it. I saw it more as elitist and pretentious, but that's my opinion and on the Internet I know the value of it is nothing.

Thanks for reading my 2 cents on the matter.

Modifié par Bomfy, 13 décembre 2009 - 10:33 .

[Sam -stone- serious]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

I demand an explanation on why is the protagonist dressed/dyed in Neon pink, with a matching suppa sayan afro, to boot

The pink you see is a brief flashing aura when the tension is up and the look is like that because the artist of the game world and characters is non other than Dragonball creator Akira Toryama.

[JO2D4N]

Sounds to me like they didn't play the game. Although, not to sure what "you" meant by the acknowledged statement of the "360" version being inferior in some way. I play this game on the "360" and I am not dissapointed. Not only that, but the graphics are spectacular.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

Ethan009 wrote...

I demand an explanation on why is the protagonist dressed/dyed in Neon pink, with a matching suppa sayan afro, to boot

The pink you see is a brief flashing aura when the tension is up and the look is like that because the artist of the game world and characters is non other than Dragonball creator Akira Toryama.

Way to milk the same cow for, what, 20-25 years now?

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 13 décembre 2009 - 10:58 .

[MerinTB]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Follow your own advice.

Point me to the place i say something that i pass judgement to something i know nothing about.

Moving the goal posts.

Let's recap:

Skellimancer wrote...
Also SMB3 on the NES is the only real Mario game worth
noting. Amazing game that fended off the so called superior 16bit 
Genesis for a long time in gameplay quality.

Sam -stone- serious wrote...
That is
your assumption. There have been other mario games of quite some worth
and one i particular that was better across the board than SMB3 but
that is not the place to discuss this.

Skellimancer wrote...
That would be your assumption.

Sam -stone- serious wrote...
True, very much like yours then.  Now can you stop it? 

You called her statement an assumption and provided your own assumption.  She called you on your own assumption, and you agreed that you had indeed made an assumption exactly like hers AND THEN asked her to stop doing what you just admitted to doing yourself.

You weren't being "pot to kettle" 'd by passing judgment on something you knew nothing about, you were being told to follow your own advice on not making assumptions.

I don't think I nor VanDraegon care if you make assumptions as much as (at least I know for certain I) caring about you calling someone out on making an assumption, admit that you made a simliar assumption, and then tell that person to stop making assumptions.  Basically being a hypocrit and saying "I can do it, now you stop doing it."

You moved the goal posts by changing what you had originally asked someone to stop doing - from making assumptions TO making judgments on things they know nothing about.  Those are two different things.

Or I guess it could be a strawman argument.

In anycase, a little consistancy.

You started (not the thread, but your major presence on the thread) this whole thing with -

Sam -stone- serious wrote...
Thrust me when i say that Edge is the one and only professional
bublication out there. I feel that their review is spot on (i have
expressed what i think of the game) and the only one review that
actually does take into consideration the games major flaws.

We are supposed to take, by fiat, your word that Edge is the ONLY professional publication. (I'm forgiving typos here, not an issue to me.)  Because you declare it, it must be so.  Yet you later berate people for making claims without proof.
Where is your proof that Edge is the ONLY profressional publication?  Define what you mean by "professional".

You agree with their review - obviously many here, including the OP, do not.  Neither you, nor we, are wrong in agreeing or disagreeing with the review.  I think, factually, it can be pointed out that the reviewer is WRONG in many instances, but whatever.

You say it is the only review that looks at flaws.  Sorry, what you consider MAJOR flaws.  That's an opinion - what is major flaw to some (no cloaks, no horses, the fact that a mage can heal or hit a dozen enemies at once and the other classes can't, the graphics) are not even issues to another.

You are also making an assumption that no other reviews look at what you consider major flaws.  Maybe, by your own advice, you should stop that - the assuming about things you know nothing about.  List what you consider the major flaws and I guarantee you other forum members will point you to reviews that list those.  Guarantee it.

Sam -stone- serious, you are extremely selective in your arguments.  You make a big deal about VTM: Bloodlines having bugs at one point, saying that anyone who's played it knows what you mean.  Quoting you -

Vampire Bloodlines was UNPLAYABLE  at its release. It needed 2 patch updates to be able to progress through the game.
...
Unfortunately these old games were unplayable in their released state which makes the reviews quite plausable.
...
Have you played VTMB  Version 1?  Try it. Come back and tell us your experience with it and give us your own Version 1 review.

Which you received numerous responses of people who told you that they HAD played VTM: Bloodlines on release and that it was eminently playable.
You said, and I quote, UNPLAYABLE.  You at one point list unplayable as game(world) breaking and that the game cannot be finished.

I specifically responded that I had the game on release and played it 3 times through before getting any patches.  3 times.  All the way through.

I answered your question directly, the "have you played VTMB Version 1 - come back and tell us" question, and you ignored me to cherry-pick from someone else's response, the person who responded to my experience with VTMB and agreed with me, focusing in -

I want to put emphasis on "it didn't bother me in the slightest"

Uhm, see, this is, again, moving the goal posts.  You went from "unplayable" and "game(world) breaking" and "unable to be completed" to "it bothered me" as your definition.
GTA has you doing horribly unscrupulous acts, many immoral to the nth degree, and that bothers me.  Guess the game is bugged and UNPLAYABLE because it bothered me.

Sam -stone- serious,
1. You cannot keep changing your criteria when people respond to you.  Well, you can, but you aren't having an honest discussion then - you are just trying to win the argument, not actually be accurate or sharing ideas or anything else.
2. You cannot keep ridiculing people for having opinions and reviews of a magazine because they are negative opinions and reviews, specifically telling them that they are wrong for saying something is bad because they disagree with it, WHILE defending a magazine that gave negative reviews on a game and attacking people who are disagreeing with the magazine and your opinions as being wrong.  This is hypocrisy.

Pot to kettle.

Modifié par MerinTB, 13 décembre 2009 - 11:03 .

[Bryy_Miller]

 To put it shortly, hardly anyone cares about a magazine.  

fixed

[Odius Rex]

Bioware Staff stop sleeping with magazine editor's wives!!!!

[Sam -stone- serious]

[quote]MerinTB wrote...

You called her statement an assumption and provided your own assumption.  She called you on your own assumption, and you agreed that you had indeed made an assumption exactly like hers AND THEN asked her to stop doing what you just admitted to doing yourself.

You weren't being "pot to kettle" 'd by passing judgment on something you knew nothing about, you were being told to follow your own advice on not making assumptions. [/quote]

Is this the part where i come back with a simple "it was an opinion"?  But oh, hey i forget, i admitted it was an assumption and not a clear cut opinion.

[quote]
I don't think I nor VanDraegon care if you make assumptions as much as (at least I know for certain I) caring about you calling someone out on making an assumption, admit that you made a simliar assumption, and then tell that person to stop making assumptions.  Basically being a hypocrit and saying "I can do it, now you stop doing it." [/quote]

I didnt tell anyone to stop making asumptions. I told them to stop acusing a review based on their own preference because it didnt match theirs. Huge difference.

[quote]
You moved the goal posts by changing what you had originally asked someone to stop doing - from making assumptions TO making judgments on things they know nothing about.  Those are two different things. [/quote]

But it was the latter that i asked alone. People judge Edge without knowing its scoring and review system. They just put a label  "Look this game called "Gold cluster buster got a 7 therefore it is better than DAO who got a 5" while at the same time are completely oblivious of the fact that Edge does not score in that way and yet continue on the bashing for no apparent reason. 

[quote]
Or I guess it could be a strawman argument.

In anycase, a little consistancy.

You started (not the thread, but your major presence on the thread) this whole thing with -
[quote]Sam -stone- serious wrote...
Thrust me when i say that Edge is the one and only professional
bublication out there. I feel that their review is spot on (i have
expressed what i think of the game) and the only one review that
actually does take into consideration the games major flaws.[/quote]

We are supposed to take, by fiat, your word that Edge is the ONLY professional publication. (I'm forgiving typos here, not an issue to me.)  Because you declare it, it must be so.  Yet you later berate people for making claims without proof.
Where is your proof that Edge is the ONLY profressional publication?  Define what you mean by "professional".[/quote]

I have said so before, if you cant take my word for it then LOOK  for it yourself. I really cant be arsed in trying to find something that will go around wildly ignored now will it? That and the fact that Edge is NOT  a magazine i can just go about and prove that it is the only professional. The best i can explain it is that they do NOT let their feelings of a game (any game) to affect their review and end score unlike all other publications and sites i have come around (like IGN). Edge's scoring system does feel downright cruel or over the top but its -always- the truth. No feeling, no fanboish, no nothing. Its the game and the sum of its parts and THATS  what is getting reviewed and scored.

If you prefer something like IGN  that completely trashes the game in its written review but ends up tagging it a 9 is your thing. For me its downright mockery and missdirection.

[quote]
You agree with their review - obviously many here, including the OP, do not.  Neither you, nor we, are wrong in agreeing or disagreeing with the review.  I think, factually, it can be pointed out that the reviewer is WRONG in many instances, but whatever. [/quote]

And how do you know that the reviewer is wrong when there ARE  others that do agree with him (myself included)?  We are in the Bioware official forums of Dragon Age after all. If anything i expect most to just plain defend even the most obvious and big of flaws. Thats understandable considering where i am.

[quote]
You say it is the only review that looks at flaws.  Sorry, what you consider MAJOR flaws.  That's an opinion - what is major flaw to some (no cloaks, no horses, the fact that a mage can heal or hit a dozen enemies at once and the other classes can't, the graphics) are not even issues to another.[/quote]

And here is where the Edge magazine comes in. It accounts for everything. It does not hand pick flaws or good parts to show and form a final score. Is this so hard to fathom? They ARE  professionals after all and are expected to see and give us their -professional- view on the matter. Clinical, cold but facts non the less.

[quote]
You are also making an assumption that no other reviews look at what you consider major flaws.  Maybe, by your own advice, you should stop that - the assuming about things you know nothing about.  List what you consider the major flaws and I guarantee you other forum members will point you to reviews that list those.  Guarantee it. [/quote]

I have said them in another post. Feel free to go and read them. We had quite a nice conversation in this particular thread.

[quote]
Sam -stone- serious, you are extremely selective in your arguments.  You make a big deal about VTM: Bloodlines having bugs at one point, saying that anyone who's played it knows what you mean.  Quoting you -
[quote]
Vampire Bloodlines was UNPLAYABLE  at its release. It needed 2 patch updates to be able to progress through the game.
...
Unfortunately these old games were unplayable in their released state which makes the reviews quite plausable.
...
Have you played VTMB  Version 1?  Try it. Come back and tell us your experience with it and give us your own Version 1 review. [/quote]
Which you received numerous responses of people who told you that they HAD played VTM: Bloodlines on release and that it was eminently playable.
You said, and I quote, UNPLAYABLE.  You at one point list unplayable as game(world) breaking and that the game cannot be finished. [/quote]

The bugs existed. They were happening across the board for far too many people. Just because some people in these forums happened to not experience them (or again not being truthful about it) doesnt make the game bug free now does it? In VMTB  forums there was a riot of the games crushing V.1 bugs. I experienced quite many myself. So did the reviewers who happened to review the game at its release. Dont try to make a fool of me out with "facts"  based on a few people that came out og this forum and "assured" me otherwise.

[quote]
I specifically responded that I had the game on release and played it 3 times through before getting any patches.  3 times.  All the way through. [/quote]

Good for you. Too bad you do not represent the vast majority.

[quote]
I answered your question directly, the "have you played VTMB Version 1 - come back and tell us" question, and you ignored me to cherry-pick from someone else's response, the person who responded to my experience with VTMB and agreed with me, focusing in -
[quote]
I want to put emphasis on "it didn't bother me in the slightest"
[/quote]
Uhm, see, this is, again, moving the goal posts.  You went from "unplayable" and "game(world) breaking" and "unable to be completed" to "it bothered me" as your definition.
GTA has you doing horribly unscrupulous acts, many immoral to the nth degree, and that bothers me.  Guess the game is bugged and UNPLAYABLE because it bothered me. [/quote]

I didnt ignore you, i just didnt have anything to say to you since you obviously were not between the insane ammount of people that experience these known game crushing bugs at the time. What did you want me to tell you?  Your experience was drastically different than my own bug ridden one. I spend numerous days in the VTMB forums to try and find answers, e-mailing with other players and sharing our findings so that we knew what the hell was going on.

And for the record GTA has consistently high marks across the globe and across all continents (yes even Japan) yet i simply cant play this game. Its not for me. I see its merits, i see its faults but in the end i dont really care because its not a game i would play anyway. The contents of a game however have little to do with BUGS and blatant oversights that we are talking about here.

[quote]
Sam -stone- serious,
1. You cannot keep changing your criteria when people respond to you.  Well, you can, but you aren't having an honest discussion then - you are just trying to win the argument, not actually be accurate or sharing ideas or anything else. [/quote]

Whats your proof of me for not sharing ideas in this forum then? I have shared my ideas already far too many times to bother quoting them from thread to thread. I have written far too many things that people ignored outright. Sorry for being weary and not giving everyone their due attention but when i see chaps saying "Edge gave Planescape torment a 3" and people believing that chap when i say 3 times afterward that this is a blatant lie and it gave it an 8 then what do you expect me to do? Just look around. Even after all my explanations people still were going posting their own thing out of nowhere.

[quote]
2. You cannot keep ridiculing people for having opinions and reviews of a magazine because they are negative opinions and reviews, specifically telling them that they are wrong for saying something is bad because they disagree with it, WHILE defending a magazine that gave negative reviews on a game and attacking people who are disagreeing with the magazine and your opinions as being wrong.  This is hypocrisy. [/quote]

When said people spew out blatant lies what else is there to make them off and i didnt even go in that direction at all. Opinions are always respected from me but its not an "opinion" when you start acusing something now is it? "Its my opinion that Edge sucks monkey balls" (while at the same time not understanding its scoring and review system). OH!  Nice. And you call me hypocrite after such remarks? 

Modifié par Sam -stone- serious, 13 décembre 2009 - 11:50 .

[Fredescu]

Edge's RPG reviews are laughable. Same goes for Eurogamer. Any fan of the genre would do well to ignore them completely. Both publications are usually fine in other respects.

[MerinTB]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...
I didnt tell anyone to stop making asumptions. I told them to stop acusing a review based on their own preference because it didnt match theirs. Huge difference.

But you did.  Maybe it was not your intention, but you clearly did.

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Sam -stone- serious wrote...
That
is your assumption. There have been other mario games of quite some
worth and one i particular that was better across the board than SMB3
but that is not the place to discuss this.

That would be your assumption.

True, very much like yours then.  Now can you stop it? 

came before -

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...
Stop what?

Stop giving your judgement around things you dont agree with.

which came before -

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

VanDraegon wrote...

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Stop what?

Stop giving your judgement around things you dont agree with.

Follow your own advice.

Point me to the place i say something that i pass judgement to something i know nothing about.

It moved from "stop making assumptions" to "stop judging things you don't agree with" to "stop passing judgment on things you know nothing about."  Those are three different things -
in retelling it I just skipped the middle step as these response, with contextual quoting, can get quite long.

-------

Modifié par MerinTB, 14 décembre 2009 - 05:36 .

[MerinTB]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...
People judge Edge without knowing its scoring and review system. They just put a label "Look this game called "Gold cluster buster got a 7 therefore it is better than DAO who got a 5" while at the same time are completely
oblivious of the fact that Edge does not score in that way and yet continue on the bashing for no apparent reason. 

I will grant you this - there are indeed too many people who see a low score for a game they like and, kneejerk, are attacking the scorer.  This happens, and you are right that it is wrong.

THAT SAID -

the OP listed quite a few quotes from the review.  Quotes. From. The. Review.  In short, he gave samples from the review and many of us are reacting to those comments.

Those comments, and you're definitive declarations that Edge is the only game review magazine that matters.  It may be the only one that matters to you, but that doesn't mean it's the only one that matters.

Finally on this - I honestly had never heard of this magazine before the forums, and as I had said I've worked many places that would carry such a magazine.  I even quoted circulation numbers, though mostly to say "Oh, that's why
I've never heard of it."  You said those numbers didn't matter - well, they matter in 3 important manners:
1 - Penetration.  How many people see what the magazine says.
2 - Revenue.  With such a small circulation the magazine cannot be making that much from advertising, and that calls into question how much they can be paying reviewers, etc.
3 - Impact.  With such a small circulation (less than probably bought DAO the first hour it was available - yes, that's hyperbole) the magazine is clearly not "the big fish" in the world of game review magazines.
Do those three points directly correlate to the quality of the magazine? Not necessarily, but they are points that are connected to the quality on some levels.  An unknown thing (Beyond Good and Evil, the game) or a poorly selling
thing (Dark City, the movie) are not necessarily poor quality things.  But often being unknown or selling poorly can be caused by being poor quality.

Ok?

--------

Modifié par MerinTB, 14 décembre 2009 - 05:37 .

[MerinTB]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

I have said so before, if you cant take my word for it then LOOK  for it yourself. I really cant be arsed in trying to find something that will go around wildly ignored now will it? That and the fact that Edge is NOT  a magazine i can just go about and prove that it is the only professional. The best i can explain it is that they do NOT let their feelings of a game (any game) to affect their review and end score unlike all other publications and sites i have come around (like IGN). Edge's scoring system does feel downright cruel or over the top but its -always- the truth. No feeling, no fanboish, no nothing. Its the game and the sum of its parts and THATS  what is getting reviewed and scored.

If you prefer something like IGN  that completely trashes the game in its written review but ends up tagging it a 9 is
your thing. For me its downright mockery and missdirection.

Honestly, I pay little attention to reviews on things until after I've experienced them myself.  For movies, for  example, I check out how certain reviewers have critiqued movies I've liked and loathed, and I tend to only trust reviewers who hold as similar as possible tastes to my own.

Years ago I stopped caring about video game review magazines as it seemed the majority of them, regardless of end-score they'd give a game, would just rip on the game endlessly like a bunch of 13-year-old immature-for-their-age macho-boys who think it makes them cool to hate on everything even the things they like.  That's how
I felt about Game Informer exactly, to give an example.

Right now I like hearing what Adam Sessler has to say on his Soapbox podcast - and that's about it for me, personally.  But if there is a game out there I like, I'll take comfort in as many positive reviews it can get as possible and try and dissect the negative reviews to see if I think they are wrong or missing something.

-------

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
You agree with their review - obviously many here, including the OP, do not.  Neither you, nor we, are wrong in agreeing or disagreeing with the review.  I think, factually, it can be pointed out that the reviewer is WRONG in many instances, but whatever.

And how do you know that the reviewer is wrong when there ARE  others that do agree with him (myself included)?  We are in the Bioware official forums of Dragon Age after all. If anything i expect most to just plain
defend even the most obvious and big of flaws. Thats understandable considering where i am.

These statements, while all of them hedge things with opinionated wording so it is hard to argue with someone saying something "feels like X" when you cannot disprove that, to the reviewer, it didn't "feel" that way - but you can still point out how unusually or disconnected such comparisions can be.
like -
Meanwhile, combat results in mostly linear dungeon crawls which often outstay their welcome.
For the first ten hours it feels like every other step triggers an inept cutscene, and the crimes against writing here are many and severe.
The dreadful dialogue, however, jettisons interest in the promising complexity of diplomacy and conversation trees, and the game struggles to make you care.
- honestly.  Combat is not dungeon crawling - combat are encounters that take place during exploring rendered areas, the same as any other RPG of this kind.  Linear in that there's an entrance and exit (sometimes multiple unless you are looking at random encounters), but what order you travel across that area, or if you even
explore it entirely or not, or if you just sneak past things instead of fighting them, all make it far from linear.  Linear doesn't give you options  Is it more linear than wide-open world maps of Oblivion?  Sure.
Every step triggering a cutscene is hyperbolic.
Outstay their welcome, crimes against writing, dreadful dialogue, struggles to make you care
- Sam -stone- serious, these are melodramatic statements of personal opinion on the quality of these elements of the game, not unbiased critiques of a game's design shortcomings. The quotes given (all of them) are riddled with the incendiary, abusive, antagonistic tone that makes me avoid reading game review magazines entirely.  You call this magazine the one with reviewers who are "professional", that they give "harsh but truthful" reviews - but what I am rejected isn't them being harsh if the harshness was just holding the game to a higher standard -
it's the juvenile jabs and histrionics of the excessive and sensationalized rhetoric the reviewer used.

Anytime a reviewer speaks as if his or her personal reactions to elements of some piece of media are de facto the reactions of the majority of people, relating personal opinions as if facts, that reviewer has immediately lost most credibility with me.

---------

Modifié par MerinTB, 14 décembre 2009 - 05:40 .

[MerinTB]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Sam -stone- serious, you are extremely selective in your arguments.  You make a big deal about VTM: Bloodlines having bugs at one point, saying that anyone who's played it knows what you mean.  Quoting you -

Sam -stone- serious wrote...
Vampire Bloodlines was UNPLAYABLE  at its release. It needed 2 patch updates to be able to progress through the game.
...
Unfortunately these old games were unplayable in their released state which makes the reviews quite plausable.
...
Have you played VTMB  Version 1?  Try it. Come back and tell us your experience with it and give us your own Version 1 review.

Whichyou received numerous responses of people who told you that they HAD played VTM: Bloodlines on release and that it was eminently playable.
You said, and I quote, UNPLAYABLE.  You at one point list unplayable as game(world) breaking and that the game cannot be finished.
I specifically responded that I had the game on release and played it 3 times through before getting any patches.  3 times.  All the way through.
I answered your question directly, the "have you played VTMB Version 1 - come back and tell us" question, and you ignored me to cherry-pick from someone else's response, the person who responded to my experience with VTMB and agreed with me, focusing in -

I want to put emphasis on "it didn't bother me in the slightest"

Uhm, see, this is, again, moving the goal posts.  You went from "unplayable" and "game(world) breaking" and "unable to be completed" to "it bothered me" as your definition.

The bugs existed. They were happening across the board for far too many people. Just because some people in these forums happened to not experience them (or again not being truthful about it) doesnt make the game bug free now does it? In VMTB  forums there was a riot of the games crushing V.1 bugs. I experienced quite many myself. So did the reviewers who happened to review the game at its release. Dont try to make a fool of me out with "facts"  based on a few people that came out og this forum and "assured" me otherwise.

I didnt ignore you, i just didnt have anything to say to you since you obviously were not between the insane ammount of people that experience these known game crushing bugs at the time. What did you want me to tell you?  Your experience was drastically different than my own bug ridden one. I spend numerous days in the VTMB forums to try and find answers, e-mailing with other players and sharing our findings so that we knew
what the hell was going on.

I didn't list all those games that had reported bugs - I picked the one that is one of my favorite games ever.  If you go look at the threads in these forums that ask for favorite RPGs or games with most replayability, you'll see
me often list that one.
I got it on release day.  I played it through 3 times, with no problems, before applying any patches.

You wanted the opinions of people on these boards who had played it on release.  You got several.

YOU DISMISSED THEM for your anecdotal evidence that on other forums elsewhere all there was were endless people complaining that they "can't play the game."  Well, if you look here on these forums you can, if you want, find tons of people claiming DAO is unplayable due to bugs as well.  If that is your focus.

You asked for people to come back and speak when they had played the pre-patched game and then talk about it being unbugged.

Several people responded that they had played it through.

You said it was unplayable.

People told you they had played it through.

You asked, and when you received the responses you didn't like, you dismissed them as irrelevant.  In fact you even called into question the honesty of those of us who said we played through the game since it didn't fit into your preconstructed narrative.

In short, there is no point in answering you unless one agrees with you, is there?

-------

Modifié par MerinTB, 14 décembre 2009 - 05:44 .

[MerinTB]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Sam -stone- serious,
1. You cannot keep changing your criteria when people respond to you.  Well, you can, but you aren't having an honest discussion then - you are just trying to win the argument, not actually be accurate or sharing ideas or anything else.

Whats your proof of me for not sharing ideas in this forum then?

You did it again.  You ignore / avoid the point and focus in on something you can nitpick.  You have posted a lot, yes, and anytime you post you are sharing ideas - but my point is about having an honest discussion, which includes acknowledging when someone answers your questions even if it is with facts that dispute your assumptions or claims.

My point was that you are changing your criteria, not that you are puting forth ideas.  In the context of what I posted as 1 "sharing ideas or anything else" means that you are not looking for an honest back and forth where each side can accept what the other side says as possibly being right and their own side possibly being wrong.

Everytime you praise Edge it is with such exacting assuredness, you state it as if anyone who doesn't think Edge is the best magazine is just wrong period.  And that is a statement that is not only opinion, but also provable wrong by many measurments (one of which is circulation - another is by how many people have at least heard of it - and yes, there are more.)

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
2. You cannot keep ridiculing people for having opinions and reviews of a magazine because they are negative opinions and reviews, specifically telling them that they are wrong for saying something is bad because
they disagree with it, WHILE defending a magazine that gave negative reviews on a game and attacking people who are disagreeing with the magazine and your opinions as being wrong.  This is hypocrisy.

When said people spew out blatant lies what else is there to make them off and i didnt even go in that direction at all. Opinions are always respected from me but its not an "opinion" when you start acusing something now is it? "Its my opinion that Edge sucks monkey balls" (while at the same time not understanding its scoring and review
system). OH!  Nice. And you call me hypocrite after such remarks?

Some may have said untrue things, others have not.
A negative opinion of a product is not accusing it of something.  Accusing something is claiming that it did something - i.e. "I accuse John Smith of killing his wife."  An opinion such as "I think John Smith is a horrible person" is not an accusation in the sense that you can disprove someone believing it the way you could disprove him killing his wife. (bad example, sure, but the point being that for something to be an accusation it must be saying something provable about someone, especially if you are claiming that someone is accusing someone of something that is a false accusation.)
You are assuming someone doesn't understand how Edge does it's scoring and reviews simply because they dislike the magazine or its reviews.  You don't know that unless you take that person aside and ask them "how do you think they do their reviews" and they give you an answer that is clearly wrong like "by taking money
from the Church of Scientology and saying whatever Tom and John tell them to say."

"And you call me a hypocrite after such remarks?" - is this directed at me?  Where did I claim someone did something wrong while I was doing the same thing?

I'm calling you out on moving the goal posts whilst moving the goal posts myself?

I'm telling you that you shouldn't ignore what someone says to make your own point while ignoring what you say to make my own point?

I know I didn't say anything "sucks monkey balls" so you cannot be referring to me with that...

I'm confused here.

------

This is way too long.  Let me end this by saying I think it is clear you have an agenda (defending Edge magazine) and will ignore, belittle, dismiss, or misrepresent what people say who disagree with Edge's review of DAO or who think Edge isn't the greatest magazine.

Modifié par MerinTB, 14 décembre 2009 - 05:48 .

[Lucy Glitter]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Important opinion was here.

You are trying to defend something that really doesn't merit any kind of defending. The review was childish and amateur and was published solely to get attention for the magazine. You call other posters fanboy/girls and yet you are doing exactly the same thing.

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 14 décembre 2009 - 06:37 .

[Templar Vilmon]

I've reviewed games before for some small Indie sites like Game Chronicles. Honestly, a 5 score is indefensible for a game like DA:O. That score means that it's below par for even fans of a particular genre. I can see you nitpicking and giving it an 8 or maybe a 7, but this review does sound very unprofessional.

[Deception_2112]

The funniest thing about Sam is that he tells everyone to go "pick" up a copy of Edge, when it's clear that many of the people he is arguing with dislike the magazine. It's like telling him to go and buy Warden's Keep, Return to Ostagar and etc for Dragon Ages Origin to "see for himself" if the DLC is worth it, despite the fact he considers the game to be trash.
Many of us have read the review, as it's posted in the OP, you consider it to be "professional" despite the fact the reviewer said nothing of the gameplay mechanics, nothing except for the most trivial parts of the game, and mostly ranted on about what "he" thought of the game. Excuse us if we think that it's not a professional review.
Edge scored Oblivion an 8/10 (A game that yes i personally loved), but had far more bugs than the games Edge scored lower, did they take into account that Oblivion would crash every 10 minutes for some? that it would crash if you had codecs installed when it was first released? Many games have many varying bugs for different people, Oblivion had HEAPS, one only needed to be at the Bethsada forums back in 2006 to witness this, yet Edge fails to nitpick at this as well as it does for other games? Did Edge also take into account that many of its questlines were bugged and couldn't be finished/progressed at all?
Edge's review of DA is far from professional, infact its downright childish and akin to me saying that Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes blows because i hate games that look childish

Modifié par Deception_2112, 14 décembre 2009 - 07:52 .

[wanderon]

I just wanna know how they could post such a crappy review of the game after Bioware went and named an awesome DLC item after the tawdry rag

Those cheeky brits.....

[Fredescu]

wanderon wrote...

I just wanna know how they could post such a crappy review of the game after Bioware went and named an awesome DLC item after the tawdry rag

Those cheeky brits.....

The Edge DLC item was announced after the review came out. I reckon there are some execs somewhere smirking about that name. It could either be a reference to EA's lawsuit against Tim Langdells very dodgy trademark bullying business (http://chaosedge.wor...edge-your-bets/), OR it could represent a dagger in the back to Edge.

[xguild]

Didn't mean to insult anyone suggesting that DQ8 was a kids game, just ment to make the point that it is in fact a kids game and edge proclaims itself as an adult magazine hence reviewing kid games makes it an inappropriate venue since their audiance is an adult audiance. There are plenty fo magazines out there that review kids games and I have nothing against (nor am I a jaded fanatic). All Im saying it is a kids game and to review it in your magazine means you are reviewing kids games, hence your magazine does not reflect my views as an adult.



Im sure DQ8 is a great kids game, but it is in fact a kids game.

[BruceVC]

Skellimancer wrote...

They also gave Morrowind 5/10 and Oblivion 8/10

Okay for me this one fact completely undermines Edge ...5/10 for Morrowind tells me they have no idea how to rate a fantasy RPG .There review for me now means nothing

[Sam -stone- serious]

MerinTB wrote...

But you did.  Maybe it was not your intention, but you clearly did.

Forgive me then. I am a European and English is not my first language either. If this is what you made out of my post then i sincerely apologise. It was definately not my intention as such.

It moved from "stop making assumptions" to "stop judging things you don't agree with" to "stop passing judgment on things you know nothing about."  Those are three different things -
in retelling it I just skipped the middle step as these response, with contextual quoting, can get quite long.

No the "stop doing that" was aimed from the very first moment at latter. The "assumption" part is -only- around the remarks made for Super Mario and nothing more. Is it cleared out now? 

Modifié par Sam -stone- serious, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:07 .

[Sam -stone- serious]

MerinTB wrote...

I will grant you this - there are indeed too many people who see a low score for a game they like and, kneejerk, are attacking the scorer.  This happens, and you are right that it is wrong.

THAT SAID -

the OP listed quite a few quotes from the review.  Quotes. From. The. Review.  In short, he gave samples from the review and many of us are reacting to those comments.

Those comments, and you're definitive declarations that Edge is the only game review magazine that matters.  It may be the only one that matters to you, but that doesn't mean it's the only one that matters.

Finally on this - I honestly had never heard of this magazine before the forums, and as I had said I've worked many places that would carry such a magazine.  I even quoted circulation numbers, though mostly to say "Oh, that's why
I've never heard of it."  You said those numbers didn't matter - well, they matter in 3 important manners:
1 - Penetration.  How many people see what the magazine says.
2 - Revenue.  With such a small circulation the magazine cannot be making that much from advertising, and that calls into question how much they can be paying reviewers, etc.
3 - Impact.  With such a small circulation (less than probably bought DAO the first hour it was available - yes, that's hyperbole) the magazine is clearly not "the big fish" in the world of game review magazines.
Do those three points directly correlate to the quality of the magazine? Not necessarily, but they are points that are connected to the quality on some levels.  An unknown thing (Beyond Good and Evil, the game) or a poorly selling
thing (Dark City, the movie) are not necessarily poor quality things.  But often being unknown or selling poorly can be caused by being poor quality.

Ok?

--------

This is where we disagree up to a point. Maybe the magazine is hard to find in the US but its not hard to find at all in Europe (of course its because its a EU magazine), maybe you dont like the magazine enough to care for a bare bones facts as viewed by people from across the ocean and you know what? You would be right. Its not your ideology, you dont share the same view on things and as such it will seem to you like a "stupid" magazine. Very much in the same sense that i find IGN  to be stupid, unprofessional and missleading.

Penetration, revenue and impact is all nice and dandy to be talking about but Edge is the TOP  magazine of EU, of that there is no doubt. Developers themselves praised the magazine even for bad scores it is considered as high quality and professionalism as Famitsu weekly. This i cannot and will not go into detail to prove but its there. If you want to know more you will. It seems that you have a lot more finesse using the internet than i do.