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Edge magazine (UK) reviews DA:O - scores it 5/10


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#276
Sam -stone- serious

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MerinTB wrote...

Honestly, I pay little attention to reviews on things until after I've experienced them myself.  For movies, for  example, I check out how certain reviewers have critiqued movies I've liked and loathed, and I tend to only trust reviewers who hold as similar as possible tastes to my own.

Years ago I stopped caring about video game review magazines as it seemed the majority of them, regardless of end-score they'd give a game, would just rip on the game endlessly like a bunch of 13-year-old immature-for-their-age macho-boys who think it makes them cool to hate on everything even the things they like.  That's how
I felt about Game Informer exactly, to give an example.

Right now I like hearing what Adam Sessler has to say on his Soapbox podcast - and that's about it for me, personally.  But if there is a game out there I like, I'll take comfort in as many positive reviews it can get as possible and try and dissect the negative reviews to see if I think they are wrong or missing something.


Thank you, i do the same but Edge is the only magazine that talks bare bone facts. What seems absurd to you for us Europeans its exactly what we think and what the magazine says and i will explain better in your next piece.


MerinTB wrote...

These statements, while all of them hedge things with opinionated wording so it is hard to argue with someone saying something "feels like X" when you cannot disprove that, to the reviewer, it didn't "feel" that way - but you can still point out how unusually or disconnected such comparisions can be.
like -
Meanwhile, combat results in mostly linear dungeon crawls which often outstay their welcome.
For the first ten hours it feels like every other step triggers an inept cutscene, and the crimes against writing here are many and severe.
The dreadful dialogue, however, jettisons interest in the promising complexity of diplomacy and conversation trees, and the game struggles to make you care.

- honestly.  Combat is not dungeon crawling - combat are encounters that take place during exploring rendered areas, the same as any other RPG of this kind.  Linear in that there's an entrance and exit (sometimes multiple unless you are looking at random encounters), but what order you travel across that area, or if you even
explore it entirely or not, or if you just sneak past things instead of fighting them, all make it far from linear.  Linear doesn't give you options  Is it more linear than wide-open world maps of Oblivion?  Sure.
Every step triggering a cutscene is hyperbolic.
Outstay their welcome, crimes against writing, dreadful dialogue, struggles to make you care
- Sam -stone- serious, these are melodramatic statements of personal opinion on the quality of these elements of the game, not unbiased critiques of a game's design shortcomings. The quotes given (all of them) are riddled with the incendiary, abusive, antagonistic tone that makes me avoid reading game review magazines entirely.  You call this magazine the one with reviewers who are "professional", that they give "harsh but truthful" reviews - but what I am rejected isn't them being harsh if the harshness was just holding the game to a higher standard -
it's the juvenile jabs and histrionics of the excessive and sensationalized rhetoric the reviewer used.

Anytime a reviewer speaks as if his or her personal reactions to elements of some piece of media are de facto the reactions of the majority of people, relating personal opinions as if facts, that reviewer has immediately lost most credibility with me.


You find the writing and and dialogue good in DAO?  To me, as a European, sounds funny at best. With the exception of a couple of voices the rest are forced, unnatural and in the end it breaks the experience. Combat that outstays its welcome. I have said so in another thread concerning the games shortcomings but i will give you an example as to why i find what Edge says is true and i felt so way before i had even read the review. In Orzammar you go into some cave with coccons and a queen spider falls down. You start the fighting and at 1/10 of her HP  she webs the whole team and ascends back at the ceiling while 5 of her goons drop down that must be killed in order for the queen to come back down and do the same "strategy"  10 times before she is dead. The game is full of such moments but i will not say more of this. 

As for the exploration and freedom part of the game. I didnt expect the game to be Oblivion. I  expected it though to be like the Witcher or baldurs gate or any game that leaves you some basic freedoms and the joy of exploration that is not there in DAO. This is not subjective either, this is objective. The game is "free" of exploration and all it has is 5x5, 10x10 and 15x15 rooms linked via narrow passages that lead from one battle to the next. Point of interest into point of interest. Nothing to discover for youself. No surprises. No items that affect the gameworld and your place in it (witcher and baldurs gate style).

And yes by the 10nth hour in the game i indeed stoped caring about the lore, characters, everything. It didnt really matter. Bear in mind that my brother who bought the game unistalled it within 3 hours because he couldnt stop laughing with the characters voices. Same as my wife who was wondering how could i play a game for 77 hours and be as tragic in its voice acting.

Did i mention that the magazine is European and the reviewers are europeans as well and therefore write mostly for a european crowd? 

#277
Sam -stone- serious

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bcrankshaw wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

They also gave Morrowind 5/10 and Oblivion 8/10



Okay for me this one fact completely undermines Edge ...5/10 for Morrowind tells me they have no idea how to rate a fantasy RPG .There review for me now means nothing


And here we go again. It was a 6 and it was for the Xbox version.

#278
Sam -stone- serious

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MerinTB wrote...

I didn't list all those games that had reported bugs - I picked the one that is one of my favorite games ever.  If you go look at the threads in these forums that ask for favorite RPGs or games with most replayability, you'll see
me often list that one.
I got it on release day.  I played it through 3 times, with no problems, before applying any patches.


The game is in my top 10 best games of all time as well but i cant turn a blind eye in its starting problems or even existing ones despite the unofficial patches made from people.

You wanted the opinions of people on these boards who had played it on release.  You got several.


Good for you, good for them. This somehow proves that the game was bug free at its release?  What exactly do you want me to say to them? To you? You went through the game without problems, great, congrats. What would you say to all those people that did experience missing keycards, important NPCs missing from their posts, cliping through debris that nailed you on the spot right there and then. I must have lost count of how many times i had to reload from previous saves in order to finish the V.1 game.

YOU DISMISSED THEM for your anecdotal evidence that on other forums elsewhere all there was were endless people complaining that they "can't play the game."  Well, if you look here on these forums you can, if you want, find tons of people claiming DAO is unplayable due to bugs as well.  If that is your focus.


I DID NOT. There was nothing i could say to them, to you without getting some other remark in the sense "i didnt find anything" when i say "i did". Nice, what now?  And i never claimed that DAO  is unplayable. Just dissapointing. There is a HUGE  difference between those two.

You asked for people to come back and speak when they had played the pre-patched game and then talk about it being unbugged.

Several people responded that they had played it through.

You said it was unplayable.


Several people also said "i didnt mind" as well meaning that they DID  find problems but didnt really care enough to point them out. I DID care however, i DID  find them (and i was not the only one considering the VTMB EU  forums at the time).

People told you they had played it through.


I did play it through as well. In its V.1. Perhaps our own definition of "unplayable"  is a bit different. To me anything that doesnt work as it should and needs "patience"  to get it through in a way that it was not intended (reloading again and again until key items or NPCs appear or to unstuck from debris) makes something UNPLAYABLE. Is it only me that thinks like this? 

You asked, and when you received the responses you didn't like, you dismissed them as irrelevant.  In fact you even called into question the honesty of those of us who said we played through the game since it didn't fit into your preconstructed narrative.


I explained in more detail upwards. I hope its more clear now to understand.

In short, there is no point in answering you unless one agrees with you, is there?


I dont expect anyone to agree with me. I say things as they are. Sure something can be lost in translation but i try to the best of my ability to be as clear as i can because apparently you try to read far too much into a simple post.

#279
Sam -stone- serious

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MerinTB wrote...

You did it again.  You ignore / avoid the point and focus in on something you can nitpick.  You have posted a lot, yes, and anytime you post you are sharing ideas - but my point is about having an honest discussion, which includes acknowledging when someone answers your questions even if it is with facts that dispute your assumptions or claims.


I AM  having an honest discusion. Why do you try to make it such that i try to nitpick about things when i have so before numerous times as to why i agree with the reviewer (and i am not the only one). Do you feel the game is "fine"?  Well good for you, i will NOT  try to change your mind. I WILL  SAY  my own opinion and whom i agree with and thats about it. I dont care at all if you think less of me because of it or some other such reason to read far too much into a simple post just to make me look bad.

My point was that you are changing your criteria, not that you are puting forth ideas.  In the context of what I posted as 1 "sharing ideas or anything else" means that you are not looking for an honest back and forth where each side can accept what the other side says as possibly being right and their own side possibly being wrong.


What criteria?  Expain to me what criteria am i changing all the time. We are talking about Edge, an EU magazine, and its scoring system that seemingly everyone of you bashes because you cant really put yourself in the possition of an EU  player and the reviewer who is writing for the EU market.

Everytime you praise Edge it is with such exacting assuredness, you state it as if anyone who doesn't think Edge is the best magazine is just wrong period.  And that is a statement that is not only opinion, but also provable wrong by many measurments (one of which is circulation - another is by how many people have at least heard of it - and yes, there are more.)


Praise?  Saying a magazine is stone cold, frozen and professional is praise?  No, I said that is what -i personally- prefer than the missdirection of every other site and publication that choses to ignore the flaws and problems and oversights and stamp on a 9 out of nowhere. Yes i said that it is the only professional publication out there and you are free to look into it yourself but it is NOT my opinion alone that this is such. The industry itself agrees. Had you been a reader of the magazine you would know that by now. Its not something that i can prove to you either. Make your own research and see what you come up with.

Some may have said untrue things, others have not.
A negative opinion of a product is not accusing it of something.  Accusing something is claiming that it did something - i.e. "I accuse John Smith of killing his wife."  An opinion such as "I think John Smith is a horrible person" is not an accusation in the sense that you can disprove someone believing it the way you could disprove him killing his wife. (bad example, sure, but the point being that for something to be an accusation it must be saying something provable about someone, especially if you are claiming that someone is accusing someone of something that is a false accusation.)


We agree on that but reading in this thread all you are going to read is in a nutshell "Edge sucks monkey balls" while at the same time not knowing themselves why do they think that (other than the obvious reason). Edge does not "suck monkey balls", its YOU (not you personaly) who thinks that it "sucks monkey balls".

You are assuming someone doesn't understand how Edge does it's scoring and reviews simply because they dislike the magazine or its reviews.  You don't know that unless you take that person aside and ask them "how do you think they do their reviews" and they give you an answer that is clearly wrong like "by taking money
from the Church of Scientology and saying whatever Tom and John tell them to say."


If that was the case then you would see and say where Edge is coming from and not blatantly spew bile just because a reviewer on a particular magazine didnt catter to your tastes. There have been a few individuals in this very thead that did understand it and said so as well but as you see the vast majority is content of spewing bile "just because".

"And you call me a hypocrite after such remarks?" - is this directed at me?  Where did I claim someone did something wrong while I was doing the same thing?


No, God, its not directed at you. You are again doing this. You are reading far too much into a simple post. Maybe its me and my inability to make it understandable enough but NO its not directed at you. It was a general remark that you believe me a hypocrite when the vast majority in this thread is as such and yet you went and told me alone that i was a hypocrite.

I know I didn't say anything "sucks monkey balls" so you cannot be referring to me with that...

I'm confused here.


Dont be because it was not directed at you yet again. It was a general remark.

This is way too long.  Let me end this by saying I think it is clear you have an agenda (defending Edge magazine) and will ignore, belittle, dismiss, or misrepresent what people say who disagree with Edge's review of DAO or who think Edge isn't the greatest magazine.


Oh God. What next? Yes i am the second coming, i will be taking your souls and everyone who disagrees with me or Edge magazine will be smitten on the spot <_< You know what? I will reverse the argument and say that i think that its you who is an agend of some sort that will try to make anyone who believes the game a dissapointment to make him look like the devil himself incarnate. You have gone and assaulted me because you somehow feel threatened. I dont know why.

#280
Elvhen Veluthil

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Sam dude, relax and let everyone has his/her opinion. I am reading the last page and all the posts are yours.



Regarding my opinion, and please don't quote me, if I was to review Dragon Age in a console, I would give it 2/10, instead of 7/10 that I give it to the PC. I haven't play it in a console, and I really don't want to, but with the camera view and all, it must be horrible. And here in Europe we are a little bit different that in the US, we like all kind of different opinions and plurality, we are not brainwashed as easily by the media as you are. If you think you have "free of speech", in all things, you don't know what that mean, we get some really good laugh with the way things are presented in the US.

#281
Rishavs

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WHile I agree with most of the stuff Sam says, i also opine that he needs a long break from the computer. you are clogging up the tubes.



Myself, I would have given DA 7/10 too. A memorable good game. just not good enough to be considered "Great"

#282
Mordaedil

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Sam, you are not justice. Stop posting, because you are only doing yourself and the magazine you are trying to defend a disservice.



You're just making people think even less of Edge now, which was something I wrote off as "hard to do" a month ago.

#283
Mesecina

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Sam -stone- serious wrote...

You find the writing and and dialogue good in DAO?  To me, as a European, sounds funny at best. With the exception of a couple of voices the rest are forced, unnatural and in the end it breaks the experience. Combat that outstays its welcome.

Did i mention that the magazine is European and the reviewers are europeans as well and therefore write mostly for a european crowd? 


So you and your beloved Edge now represent voice of every single European gamer out there? I for one don't remeber voting for any Sam to voice my opinion on anything and particularly not DA.

I'm as European as can be (continental Europe) and I completely disagree with you or Edge and I'm pretty sure if we tried hard enough we could find few other people that wouldn't be extatic about  you being their self proclaimed spokesperson here.

However no one is saying you are not free to have YOUR OWN opinion and so is the Edge's reviewer it just so happens your and his opinion are in minority in Europe or elsewhere

BTW you happen to have wast insight knowledge of the game you apparently don't even own :ph34r: Just sayin'

Modifié par Mesecina, 14 décembre 2009 - 12:14 .


#284
Aratham Darksight

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Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Thank you, i do the same but Edge is the only magazine that talks bare bone facts. What seems absurd to you for us Europeans its exactly what we think and what the magazine says and i will explain better in your next piece.

...

You find the writing and and dialogue good in DAO?  To me, as a European, sounds funny at best. With the exception of a couple of voices the rest are forced, unnatural and in the end it breaks the experience.

...

Did i mention that the magazine is European and the reviewers are europeans as well and therefore write mostly for a european crowd?


As a European, I would like to remind you that you do not, in fact, speak for all Europeans.

I don't share your opinions about the game's writing and VO, nor do friends of mine who have played it. Judging by these forums, these aren't the foremost concerns on the minds of DA's plentiful European fans, either. So we can't exactly say that disagreements on this Edge review are due to Americans not understanding our sophisticated European ways.

At any rate, you seem to have missed  what I think was the most important part of MerlinTB's post:

Calling something a "crime against writing" is about as far as you can get from "cold, clinical and professional" without spittle flying.

#285
Sam -stone- serious

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Sorry for the overbloated wall of text but i just had to respond to this guy.

#286
Sam -stone- serious

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Mesecina wrote...

So you and your beloved Edge now represent voice of every single European gamer out there? I for one don't remeber voting for any Sam to voice my opinion on anything and particularly not DA.

I'm as European as can be (continental Europe) and I completely disagree with you or Edge and I'm pretty sure if we tried hard enough we could find few other people that wouldn't be extatic about  you being their self proclaimed spokesperson here.

However no one is saying you are not free to have YOUR OWN opinion and so is the Edge's reviewer it just so happens your and his opinion are in minority in Europe or elsewhere


Where did i say that i am an authority on the matter? I have my own opinion which happens to coinside with Edge's. It was not me who tried to change your view of the game. I supported my own through EDGE who we share the same view. To you it might seem that i defend Edge but in reality i defend my own opinion. I just dont understand what exactly is so shocking about the review that garners such wrath from the lot of you. Its an opinion, a review, plain and simple.

#287
Fluffykeith

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I'm European, and I have to admit that I don't rate Edge particularly highly for it's reviews, mostly because I've never seen them review anything without what I'd call nitpicking, mostly without needing to. Pretty much seems to me that they go put of their way to find fault.



I've finished DA:O (1 playthrough so far), and I'd happily give it a score of at least 8/10. Graphics were fine, gameplay was fun and egrossing, plot was generic-ish but managed to pull me in anyway. The only thing I could reasonably call a bug, that I found, was that summoned pets didn't turn into corpses when they died. Other than that, nothing.



I really don't get a lot of the complaints I see on these forums. Sometimes It feels like I played a differant game

#288
MadMaligor

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Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Where did i say that i am an authority on the matter? I have my own opinion which happens to coinside with Edge's. It was not me who tried to change your view of the game. I supported my own through EDGE who we share the same view. To you it might seem that i defend Edge but in reality i defend my own opinion. I just dont understand what exactly is so shocking about the review that garners such wrath from the lot of you. Its an opinion, a review, plain and simple.


The interesting thing is most people responding here and in the other post are basically "reviewing" the review.  Some agree, some are nuetral, and some think the review is a pile of garbage meant to do one thing, generate interest (my personal opinion btw).

It is notable that you defend the "wrath" of the reviewer to scorch DA:O for its flaws, then flame poetic on others for their criticism of the critic, exposing a number of review flaws in the mentioned review as well as others. 

Hmmmmm....the logical conclusion is that there is a hidden agenda of sorts behind your posts.  Care to elaborate on what that may be?

#289
Sam -stone- serious

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MadMaligor wrote...

The interesting thing is most people responding here and in the other post are basically "reviewing" the review.  Some agree, some are nuetral, and some think the review is a pile of garbage meant to do one thing, generate interest (my personal opinion btw).

It is notable that you defend the "wrath" of the reviewer to scorch DA:O for its flaws, then flame poetic on others for their criticism of the critic, exposing a number of review flaws in the mentioned review as well as others. 

Hmmmmm....the logical conclusion is that there is a hidden agenda of sorts behind your posts.  Care to elaborate on what that may be?


That i agree to the letter with the reviwer in question maybe?

#290
Calerion

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I know Sam- too- long name- to remember, likes games like Halo or Teletubbies, he doesn't care about a game with strong plot! No just give him a crappy FPS game and he will furiously masturbate to it and he will probably enjoy it too...



Dragon age origins isn't perfect nor is it horrible, So next use constructive criticism... ínstead of talking about your wet dreams with halo or something...

#291
MadMaligor

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That i agree to the letter with the reviwer in question maybe?


Which was what interested me most.  Especially your choice of words..."to the letter".

The reason I mention that is statements in the review like "....that has familiar fantasy schlock as its major selling point."

Your statement would suggest that you totaly agree with such a whitewash of the number of fantasy constants that have been violated, as many on this site and others have noted.  Or would you like to make an exception?

Most of the review is an opinion geared to incite.  Its pretty obvious that the reviewer made little to no effort to compare/contrast the genre, the quest/dialogue trees were shrugged off so quickly it made my head snap, no real mention of the graphic comparisons for platform and rig capability (which are huge...huge I say....did I mention they are HUGE), and comments on the voice acting were something I would consider quite UNprofessional...especially considering the work done by Curry and Mulgrew.

Again, I am beginning to doubt the sincerity of your support of the review...and would even question whether you or the reviewer actually completed the game.  So that leaves us again at the alterior motive....??

#292
RetrOldSchool

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EDIT Spacing

Why Edge has disqualified themselves from rating RPG's

I tried to stop myself from posting in this thread but after seeing how Edge has reviewed other RPG's I cant help myslef anymore.
At first I thought that Edge might just be a magazine that tries to be a little harsher a little less forgiving than a lot of other reviewers (many reviewers hardly put much empahisis on the negatives at all, except if a game is complete garbage.
I think that can be a good thing if some reviewers are less forgiving, but it's extremely important that the magazine as a whole keeps that standard and maintain that kind of stance in all reviews, otherwise the result just seems unjustified and biased.
I hope (most likely) that the following examples of Edge reviews are written by other reviewers than the person who reviewed DA:O but notetheless, the image I get from the magazine after comparing is a very negative one. 
Edge may be a good magazine for other genres, but as RPG reviewers they fail. Totally.

You have to keep in mind that JE, Fallout 3 and ME was scored 7 and DA:O was scored 5 by Edge, so I don't really knock the indiviual scores of the below examples but I use them as reference since I (and basically all reviewers except Edge) believe these games to be inferior to JE, ME, FO3 and DA:O. The games are from 2007-2008, but so is ME and FO3, while DA:O is 2009. I still think it's fair to compare though, since the RPG genre hasn't been revolutionized since 2007. Bare with me:

Eternal Sonata:
Edge score: 7

(To me in general ES is a highly overrated game, since most reviewers score it 7-8, I'd say more like a 6 or even 5)
They go on about bad writing, bad VO and confined dungeon crawling in DA:O?
Have they ever played Eternal Sonata? Some of the worst VO's ever, the most linear and boring dungeon crawls, no possibility to choose where to go (except if you start a new game+ after finishing). Plus the story and conversations are so insanely convoluted. And about cut scenes? As in most JRPG's cutscenes are lengthy and common, but in ES they're also borderline ridiculous. I like JRPG's but ES was garbage.

Lost Odyssey
Edge score: 7

I enjoyed LO for what it is, an old school JRPG but this game is also filled with over acted cut scenes, VO ranging from good to really bad, plot ranging from well made to convoluted and a 90's dungeon crawler gameplay (complete with random encounters).

NWN2
Edge score: 8

Now I can't say I hated NWN2, but to me that game is very "meh". Niether characters, gameplay or story is more than par. I don't see NWN2 having anything that DA:O doesnt do better, except the stronghold.

Fable 2
Edge score: 9

IMO Fable and Fable 2 are the most overrated games of Xbox and Xbox 360. Sub par as a hack-n-slash, sub par as a sandbox game, sub par as an RPG, but even if you enjoy Fable 2, you have to admitt that the same issues that Edge claims plague DA:O also plagues Fable2:
The VO's are so-so, ranging from good to horrible (especially the repeated villager chatter), the character models are ugly, especially the faces up close, the story is less than forgettable and the character progression and skillcustomization is next to none (you will be a jack-of -all trades since the game forces you to be it if you want to get XP multipliers etc).

Conclusion:
JE, ME, FO3 and DA:O are 4 games that have recieved almost universal critical acclaim but according to Edge they are all only as good or less than Eternal Sonata and Lost Odyssey and according to Edge both NWN2 and Fable 2 are a lot better. Tom me that's laughable.

I can see people not agreeing on my indiviual thoughts of those games, but I can't really see a lot of people really thinking JE, ME, FO3 = ES & LO

Modifié par RetrOldSchool, 14 décembre 2009 - 01:44 .


#293
ushae

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Edge = Sux

Bioware = Awesome



I rest my case.

#294
mathewgurney

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Calerion wrote...

I know Sam- too- long name- to remember, likes games like Halo or Teletubbies, he doesn't care about a game with strong plot! No just give him a crappy FPS game and he will furiously masturbate to it and he will probably enjoy it too...

Dragon age origins isn't perfect nor is it horrible, So next use constructive criticism... ínstead of talking about your wet dreams with halo or something...


Wow, that was quite the most singularly ignorant post i've seen on this board.  If you "Calerion" have an understanding of the psychological term "projection" then you will see why i am seriously worried about your state of mind.

Moderators start thier holidays early this year ? This thread was reduced to group personal attacks on one individual some pages ago.

#295
LdyShayna

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Yes, it has degraded, despite my warnings.