67 réponses à ce sujet

[Psycoman2]

I could accept basic blackpowder type weapons in thedas if it was at least 200 years later.



But i defiantly say no to magic powered machines of any sort, simply because for such a thing to exist it would require ridiculous amounts of lyrum and many years of dedicated research and experimentation, which the chantry would never allow.



I do think it is plausible for Thedas to have a very low rate of technological progress though. With the constant threat of darkspawn, the strict regulation on magic imposed by the chantry, and the apparent strength of the chantry in politics and culture, there would not be much time or opportunity for technological progress. Remember that here on earth, we actually regressed technologically during the "dark ages" due to the strength of the religious authority and it's obsession with deeming all science as witchcraft or heresy.

[Statulos]

That is basicaly a false asumption that from being a thousand times repeated, is no less false.

The Middle Eages saw the colonization of areas impossible to be heavily populated during the Roman Empire (Flanders, the British Isles...); the Empire was never capable of manufacturing steel on a regular basis, the selection of seeds was not enforced on a regular basis in Rome...



People tend to attach the idea of centralized power with strong urban tendencies to the idea of progress and it´s not true. Actually, Middle Ages tech is quite more advanced and refined than Roman Empire one.

[Herr Uhl]

Psycoman2 wrote...

I could accept basic blackpowder type weapons in thedas if it was at least 200 years later.

The Qunari have cannons, so there probably already is.

[MrIsidor]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Psycoman2 wrote...

I could accept basic blackpowder type weapons in thedas if it was at least 200 years later.

The Qunari have cannons, so there probably already is.

I may have interpreted things wrong, but it seems the dwarven miners have explosives. It could of course be something else than gunpowder, but the effect is still the same.

[Psycoman2]

Statulos wrote...

That is basicaly a false asumption that from being a thousand times repeated, is no less false.
The Middle Eages saw the colonization of areas impossible to be heavily populated during the Roman Empire (Flanders, the British Isles...); the Empire was never capable of manufacturing steel on a regular basis, the selection of seeds was not enforced on a regular basis in Rome...

People tend to attach the idea of centralized power with strong urban tendencies to the idea of progress and it´s not true. Actually, Middle Ages tech is quite more advanced and refined than Roman Empire one.

If your talking meterworking type tech yes. They had better steel, to make better swords.... etc
But the romans and greeks where lightyears ahead of most mideval scocieties in overall scientific knowlege.

[Cabidela]

Nobody Important wrote...

If they start adding machines and guns I am done. I seriously hate when fantasy games add that crap. If I want that stuff I will buy a scifi game instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine


so you'll be leaving now?

[ArmageddonAngel]

It's a fantasy game - anything is possible.

[The Angry One]

ArmageddonAngel wrote...

It's a fantasy game - anything is possible.

Steam powered cyborg gryphons it is.

[LynxAQ]

Nah I want squid people from another dimension who fly time travelling spaceships but oddly still fight with sword and shields... where have I seen that before?

[MrIsidor]

The Angry One wrote...

ArmageddonAngel wrote...

It's a fantasy game - anything is possible.

Steam powered cyborg gryphons it is.

lol
Well, since the natural ones are extinct, that would probably be the only gryphons we'd get

[Herr Uhl]

MrIsidor wrote...
lol
Well, since the natural ones are extinct, that would probably be the only gryphons we'd get

I'm still hoping that they are a case like dragons. I want my griffin-dog for DA2

[The Angry One]

Herr Uhl wrote...

MrIsidor wrote...
lol
Well, since the natural ones are extinct, that would probably be the only gryphons we'd get

I'm still hoping that they are a case like dragons. I want my griffin-dog for DA2

It turns out that Gryphons never went extinct, they magically de-evolved into Nugs.
In DA2, Schmooples will return as your Gryphon.

[Herr Uhl]

The Angry One wrote...

It turns out that Gryphons never went extinct, they magically de-evolved into Nugs.
In DA2, Schmooples will return as your Gryphon.

If he grows wings, I'm cool with that.

[The Angry One]

He falls into a pit of Lyrium while running away after Dog decides he'd be tasty as tonights dinner.

The direct exposure turns Schmooples into a full size gryphon, wings and all. And now he decides Dog would make good dinner.



It's the circle of life.

[Statulos]

Psycoman2 wrote...

Statulos wrote...

That is basicaly a false asumption that from being a thousand times repeated, is no less false.
The Middle Eages saw the colonization of areas impossible to be heavily populated during the Roman Empire (Flanders, the British Isles...); the Empire was never capable of manufacturing steel on a regular basis, the selection of seeds was not enforced on a regular basis in Rome...

People tend to attach the idea of centralized power with strong urban tendencies to the idea of progress and it´s not true. Actually, Middle Ages tech is quite more advanced and refined than Roman Empire one.

If your talking meterworking type tech yes. They had better steel, to make better swords.... etc
But the romans and greeks where lightyears ahead of most mideval scocieties in overall scientific knowlege.

Sure, sure. Greeks and Romans used the zero to calculate, and also the system of division we still use in elementary schools wich was surprisly developed by an Arab called al-Quarinz was Roman/Greek too.

Agronomy was that underdeveloped in the Middle Ages that the production archived during the XIII in a marginal area of the Empire, Flanders, was not excedet till XVIII century.

But hey, this is "engineering"; let´s talk about science:

-Medicine in Western Europe followed exactly the same practices as the ones encouraged by Hypocratic tradition. Still, medicine advanced in the Middle Ages thanks to the partial depart from this tradition by a  guy called Abu Ibn Sina; not to Greek/Roman rediscovery of nothing.

-Mathematics in the Middle Ages were far, far better than the Roman/Greek ones as some little developements show, such as the fixation of a tempered scale for music, the generalized used of the zero, the invention of division and square root, the rational numbers or something applied and surprising: the generalized navigation on the Atlantic thanks to a better and more complete astronomical knowledge.

-Chemestry at the time was quite intermingled with alchemy, but the domain of fluoridric acid in Bohemia (ever guessed how they carved glass?), the production of glass or the use of the Greek Fire in the Eastern Empire were developments never seen in Ancient Age.

-Biology did not also existed as such at the time, but the selection of species for cereals, the specialiced breed of animals (sheep particularly), the adjustment of the labour calendar in cold climates show that people understoood nature quite a bit better.

[EricHVela]

I thought Par Vollen was technologically advanced compared to most of Thedas. (Perhaps, that explains Sten's [almost reciprocal] fascination with Shale.)

[Taleroth]

Statulos wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Screw "a slow evolution."  Diversity, that's what we need!  Diversity and change!

Stagnation breeds death.

Welcome to the pre-Enlightenment mindset that lasted for centuries.

Welcome to the modern mindset of things such as investment and genetics, among other things.

[Herr Uhl]

ReggarBlane wrote...

I thought Par Vollen was technologically advanced compared to most of Thedas. (Perhaps, that explains Sten's [almost reciprocal] fascination with Shale.)

The Qunari said [naughty word] magic, we make cannons instead. Magic should be a major hindrance to science.

Who would invent a flamethrower when you can summon fire from your fingertips? Or evolve medicine very far when a mage can cast a heal spell?

[Taleroth]

Herr Uhl wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

I thought Par Vollen was technologically advanced compared to most of Thedas. (Perhaps, that explains Sten's [almost reciprocal] fascination with Shale.)

The Qunari said [naughty word] magic, we make cannons instead. Magic should be a major hindrance to science.

Who would invent a flamethrower when you can summon fire from your fingertips? Or evolve medicine very far when a mage can cast a heal spell?

A flamethrower is not itself science.  Science can lead to flamethrowers.  But in a world of magic, science can also lead to fireballs.

[Maria Caliban]

Avaraen wrote...

I agree, the low-tech, dark, medieval, fantasy setting is great as is, but - was there some hint from the devs they were planning to make any major changes to the world?

The world itself, actually. Ferelden is one of the most backwater nations in Thedas and its knights are running around in gothic plate. In Orlias, it's more Renaissance. The qunari use gunpowder.

Herr Uhl wrote...

Who would invent a flamethrower when you can summon fire from your fingertips? Or evolve medicine very far when a mage can cast a heal spell?

The majority of people can't summon fire, while everyone can use a flamethrower. Moreover, that flamethrower doesn't have the nasty habit of turning on you or becoming possessed by a demon.

There are a number of illnesses and diseases that magic doesn't treat, and there aren't enough mages to go around.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 13 décembre 2009 - 03:32 .

[Herr Uhl]

Taleroth wrote...

A flamethrower is not itself science.  Science can lead to flamethrowers.  But in a world of magic, science can also lead to fireballs.

Yes, but in the sense that magic isn't science. Which it is if it exists, awesome science. But having a walking siege weapon that can ruin entire cities is kind of bad for further development of weapons when compared to not having that.

Edit: I use weapons as examples since the dwarves have friggin smokeless coal.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 13 décembre 2009 - 03:33 .

[tausra]

It seems heal spells only close wounds not cure disease. Technology will advance because only a select few can cast fireball and it takes training to aim a long bow. The inescapable march of technology follows the increasing demand for ease of life. Why invest in a mage who could turn into a crazy abomination when there is a weapon that is reliable and does the same thing?

[Maria Caliban]

tausra wrote...

Why invest in a mage who could turn into a crazy abomination when there is a weapon that is reliable and does the same thing?

Then a young Chantry priest discovers the lombotomy, and the mage problem is fixed permenantly.

[Axterix]

Statulos wrote...

-Not too many fantastic societies: basicaly, there are humans, qunari, dwarfs and elves with variants. No minotuaurs, were-birds, gnolls, orcs and so on. The quantity of humanoid creatures is compared to other settings. Even in all this cases, all those societies are very "real world" in terms of politics and economy.

I agree with this.  Never made much sense to have a lot of races, as it seems like they'd find reasons to wipe each other out.  As is, having 4 run around is quite a bit, though acceptable as one has been crushed by another, the third is a decent distance away, and the fourth lives where the others do not want to.

That said, Darkspawn = orcs.  Perverted beings that swarm when led by a dark lord.  Prone to snacking on things they kill.  And so on.  Just not a pc race.

-No more "good-o-meter": no more "lawful neutral" or any other sort of moral metter. Actions are actions and its consideration is completely subjetive. People logicaly react to them, but there is no referential and fixed scale to measure it.

I don't know about this.  I do sort of miss something along this line.  My character can be a real sociopath.  To a point that my being a grey warden would not protect me.  The lack of a good-0-meter essentially means that the impact of my actions are very limited.  This is nice in some ways, in that I can be nice to elves and nasty to non-elves for example, but it also means trying to steal from everyone has greater consequences (in that the guards of various cultures try to arrest me) than being a homicidal sociopath. 

Apparantly, I can be Princess Stabbity and loot the corpses, but Maker forbid if I skip the stabbing before taking what you got.  Guess I do real good at eliminating all possible witnesses.

[Herr Uhl]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Who would invent a flamethrower when you can summon fire from your fingertips? Or evolve medicine very far when a mage can cast a heal spell?

The majority of people can't summon fire, while everyone can use a flamethrower. Moreover, that flamethrower doesn't have the nasty habit of turning on you or becoming possessed by a demon.

There are a number of illnesses and diseases that magic doesn't treat, and there aren't enough mages to go around.

Aye, but if you rob them of the magic, the incentive for other sciences would rise. They will get there, but it takes more time.