182 réponses à ce sujet

[darkblade]

No seriously we need to stop because people don't no how to ask for proper balance...instead all we get is

heavier weapons, nerfed damage, and nerfed powers.

Really why was hunter mode nerfed?

And why was the Kyrasea's damage nerfed......those two things were never the problem.

Modifié par darkblade, 13 juin 2012 - 02:08 .

[GodlessPaladin]

Blind2Society wrote...
I stand corrected, there are more examples. However, I still feel they fit in the same boat as the infiltrator evolution choice. They are not significant enough to say that they take away from the game.

  And I disagree.  I think that the game would be better if I couldn't instantly look at the Eagle or Shuriken or Proximity Mine slow evolution or Tactical Cloak duration evolution or dozens of other things and immediately relegate them to the trash bin. 

darkblade wrote...

No seriously we need to stop because people don't no how to ask for proper balance...instead all we get is

heavier weapons, nerfed damage, and nerfed powers.

Really why was hunter mode nerfed?

And why was the Kyrasea's damage nerfed......those two things were never the problem.

Maybe part of the reason that we get such haphazard changes is because Bioware can't sort meaningful feedback from a community that's flooded with hysterical threads driven by ideologues arguing over whether changes should even be a thing.  Changes are going to happen... there should be constructive discussion regarding what those changes ought to be.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 13 juin 2012 - 02:28 .

[GodlessPaladin]

(Double post)

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 13 juin 2012 - 02:13 .

[Blind2Society]

Somewhat what I was trying to get at. There is only one thing in this game I think is overpowered and that is the geth as an enemy. There are many things that are underpowered, such as all SRs in general but the game if fun as it is and all these proposed changes will only serve to hurt the game.

Give my Turian Soldier a roll, bring the geth (enemy) back in check and the game is gold. Sure there are bugs that need to be fixed but that's another topic entirely.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 13 juin 2012 - 02:16 .

[Blind2Society]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...
I stand corrected, there are more examples. However, I still feel they fit in the same boat as the infiltrator evolution choice. They are not significant enough to say that they take away from the game.

  And I disagree.  I think that the game would be better if I couldn't instantly look at the Eagle or Shuriken or Proximity Mine slow evolution or Tactical Cloak duration evolution or dozens of other things and immediately relegate them to the trash bin. 

And I've have been saying that over and over and you just kept ignoring it and calling me names. Go back and re-read my multiple posts where I say this argument boils down to we disagree on what changes would make the game better.

As to the second part of your post, it's not whther balance is a thing, it's what constitutes balance. Everyone has different ideas of what will make the game better and what will hurt it. It's a tough job to sort out what to actually do and I don't envy The Fagnan for that.


Anyway, because you couldn't see that from the get go as I could and because you couldn't accept the satirical nature of this thread, you have turned it from fun  to just another buff/nerf argument thread. Thanks for that. Then again, I suppose if you didn't someone else would have.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 13 juin 2012 - 02:19 .

[Orca_]

darkblade wrote...

No seriously we need to stop because people don't no how to ask for proper balance...instead all we get is

heavier weapons, nerfed damage, and nerfed powers.

Really why was hunter mode nerfed?

And why was the Kyrasea's damage nerfed......those two things were never the problem.

Because up to 22.5% damage, faster movement, faster recharge speeds, and wall hacks were overpowered on anything.

Yes, even Geth Engineer.

I've had some buddies of mine who are NOT the best players feel like the only class they can play is Geth Infiltrator or Engineer because otherwise they aren't contributing.

And to be fair, their scores are relatively low on their non Geth classes, unless they're shooting for biotic explosion city.

That is a problem.  How soon till they decide it's just boring to play?  Most of the people I was playing with at launch have already bored of the game.  How much longer will they hold out if they're only playing one race/class?  How much longer will I hold out?  I already restrict myself to a handful of classes when pubbing, because I want to be able to try to carry the team if everyone else is failing.  That doesn't keep me interested in the game...

[Ghostfc3s]

Don't like don't use it. My choice to use or not to use it doesn't effect your game and your playing still. Not all of us can use the same setup equally. So even if XYZ is OP if I suck at that build its not truly OP. Even if I rock it hard how does it effect you?

[Blind2Society]

Orca_ wrote...

darkblade wrote...

No seriously we need to stop because people don't no how to ask for proper balance...instead all we get is

heavier weapons, nerfed damage, and nerfed powers.

Really why was hunter mode nerfed?

And why was the Kyrasea's damage nerfed......those two things were never the problem.

Because up to 22.5% damage, faster movement, faster recharge speeds, and wall hacks were overpowered on anything.

Yes, even Geth Engineer.

I've had some buddies of mine who are NOT the best players feel like the only class they can play is Geth Infiltrator or Engineer because otherwise they aren't contributing.

And to be fair, their scores are relatively low on their non Geth classes, unless they're shooting for biotic explosion city.

That is a problem.  How soon till they decide it's just boring to play?  Most of the people I was playing with at launch have already bored of the game.  How much longer will they hold out if they're only playing one race/class?  How much longer will I hold out?  I already restrict myself to a handful of classes when pubbing, because I want to be able to try to carry the team if everyone else is failing.  That doesn't keep me interested in the game...

So you see the solution as nerfing the only thing they find fun? What about making the other classes more frindly to those who aren't as elite as the elite?

[GodlessPaladin]

Blind2Society wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...
I stand corrected, there are more examples. However, I still feel they fit in the same boat as the infiltrator evolution choice. They are not significant enough to say that they take away from the game.

  And I disagree.  I think that the game would be better if I couldn't instantly look at the Eagle or Shuriken or Proximity Mine slow evolution or Tactical Cloak duration evolution or dozens of other things and immediately relegate them to the trash bin. 

And I've have been saying that over and over

  You actually just said that they were "not significant enough to take away from the game."  I then said that I felt that they were significant enough issues that ameliorating them would meaningfully add to the game.   Then you said that's what you've been saying all along.  <_<

Go back and re-read my multiple posts where I say this argument boils down to we disagree on what changes would make the game better.

Do you even know what my suggested changes for improving the game's balance are?  I haven't gone over them in this thread.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 13 juin 2012 - 02:26 .

[Blind2Society]

Do you even know what you're typing? I really think you don't.

[Orca_]

What makes Hunter Mode fun is the wall hacks.

If it had no other bonuses whatsoever it'd still be worth it for that alone, and probably STILL overpowered.

I say this as someone who has been splitting his time something like 20% Geth Infiltrator, 20% Salarian Infiltrator, 20% Geth Engineer, 20% Asari Adept, and 20% others.

I use Hunter Mode all the time. This nerf won't change how I use it or how I build it, it'll just slow the DPS a little.

If you ask me, again, as someone who uses it heavily, they haven't gone far enough yet.

[Blind2Society]

But others may play it differently. So it should be change to suit how you use it and not them?

[Blind2Society]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

And I disagree.  I think that the game would be better if I couldn't instantly look at the Eagle or Shuriken or Proximity Mine slow evolution or Tactical Cloak duration evolution or dozens of other things and immediately relegate them to the trash bin.

Oh and by the way, if you dislike the game this much and aren't having fun then why are you even here? Why don't you go find a game you do like and play that?

[Orca_]

Blind2Society wrote...

But others may play it differently. So it should be change to suit how you use it and not them?

You're only playing it differently if you're not taking Hunter Vision.

Does ANYBODY run a Geth without taking Hunter Vision?

And if they do, what percentage of the player base is it?  Can this percentage read?

[TehMerc]

Blind2Society wrote...
So you see the solution as nerfing the only thing they find fun?

If you'd even been reading what GP and some of the others have posted in other threads you'd know they want to see underperforming specs and weapons brought up in a REASONABLE fashion.

Anyone who advocates balance *should* want to have more than a handful of classes and weapons to play effectively with. I'm certainly not happy with certain specs or weapons right now, but I also agree with the changes we just got.

You don't just let things stay the way they are when they benefit you because somethings don't. I certainly don't want to stick with adepts for BE spamming or infiltraitors for sniping the whole time I'm playing this.

I'm fairly certain this will just get trolled anyhow though.

[Doc-Jek]

Blind2Society wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

And I disagree.  I think that the game would be better if I couldn't instantly look at the Eagle or Shuriken or Proximity Mine slow evolution or Tactical Cloak duration evolution or dozens of other things and immediately relegate them to the trash bin.

Oh and by the way, if you dislike the game this much and aren't having fun then why are you even here? Why don't you go find a game you do like and play that?

Nowhere in this post did he say he disliked the game. Saying there are improvements that can be made to a game, and being here to suggest them implies the exact opposite: that he cares enough about the game to want it to be better.

[UKStory135]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Chealec wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

^ Yeah, that

Chealec wrote...

I'm sorry - but grow up.

Awww, did I hit a nerve? But you'll never be outscored again, isn't that a good thing?

Yes - you hit my "I'm really, really bored with willful misinterpretation of the idea of balance " nerve (at least I hope it's willful misinterpretation rather than abject stupidity), well done, have a cookie.

If the Krysea continues to get nerfed it will become the new Falcon. Then everyone will just use the BW again. Yay, balance.

Or shotguns, which would be the only viable option if they followed the TC nerf proposals.

[Blind2Society]

Sorry I was just going off that post not what has been said in other threads.

@Orca: My GE uses a mattockX with EB and PM and OL for all damage output. I have a couple points in turret just to use it as a distraction. For me the extra vision side of it is just an nice addition. With my setup, especially on gold, every bit of damage bonus is needed because you can run out of ammo killing three enemies with the mattock. So even a small bonus nerf is bad for my setup.

For your setup the nerf doesn't matter but for mine it does. That's all I'm saying.

[Blind2Society]

Doc-Jek wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

And I disagree.  I think that the game would be better if I couldn't instantly look at the Eagle or Shuriken or Proximity Mine slow evolution or Tactical Cloak duration evolution or dozens of other things and immediately relegate them to the trash bin.

Oh and by the way, if you dislike the game this much and aren't having fun then why are you even here? Why don't you go find a game you do like and play that?

Nowhere in this post did he say he disliked the game. Saying there are improvements that can be made to a game, and being here to suggest them implies the exact opposite: that he cares enough about the game to want it to be better.

I don't know. I'd say the eagle, shuriken, proxy mine, tac cloak and dozens (which implies 24 or more) other things is a lot to dislike about the game.

[Apl_Juice]

Blind2Society wrote...
I don't know. I'd say the eagle, shuriken, proxy mine, tac cloak and dozens (which implies 24 or more) other things is a lot to dislike about the game.

If he didn't like the game, he wouldn't waste time arguing with internet strangers on its behalf.

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

@xxHiDa SuFixx

The point that perfect balance can't be achieved is meaningless. It's like saying that absolute proof doesn't exist in empirical science. It's true, but it doesn't devalue what science does... which is continually improve and refine our understanding of reality, even if it doesn't make it perfect. Likewise, balance can be improved even if it doesn't become perfect.

No the point that perfect balance can't be achieved is not meaningless ... its the whole point.
There will never be an end to "Nerf all the things/Buff all the things/Balance all the things" topics.

  There will never be an end to the cycle of the scientific method either... that doesn't make it pointless.  Your argument is like saying there's no point to improving lifespans if you can't ever achieve actual immortality.

Oh yes I forgot that my leisurely video GAME playing should = science and medicine.  Thanks for reminding me that I should pursue my recreational activities with the same kind of attitude as I would curing cancer.

There you go again ... telling others how to do things or see things. Well I'm sorry ... I REFUSE to treat my recreational activities as work ... they're meant to be fun for MOST and not just fun for some.
Anyone who regulary plays PUG will be able to contest that the majority of players out there are not the min/max I score 150k+ a game types.

[Apl_Juice]

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...
Oh yes I forgot that my leisurely video GAME playing should = science and medicine.  Thanks for reminding me that I should pursue my recreational activities with the same kind of attitude as I would curing cancer.

There you go again ... telling others how to do things or see things. Well I'm sorry ... I REFUSE to treat my recreational activities as work ... they're meant to be fun for MOST and not just fun for some.
Anyone who regulary plays PUG will be able to contest that the majority of players out there are not the min/max I score 150k+ a game types.

Game Design, like many types of design, was built on psychology's back. If people aren't serious about games, there would be no games.

You're being childish and, once again, putting words in the opposing view's mouth because you can't refute them otherwise.

Modifié par Apl_J, 13 juin 2012 - 02:53 .

[Blind2Society]

I remember when this thread was fun satirical thread. Then all these serious people who only ever like to argue had to ruin it. I fear the fun is now forever lost.

Could a mod lock this thread now because with all the words flying around I don't see it falling to the void by itself and it's really getting depressing to think of what it once was.

[TehMerc]

Blind2Society wrote...
I don't know. I'd say the eagle, shuriken, proxy mine, tac cloak and dozens (which implies 24 or more) other things is a lot to dislike about the game.

Someone can like a game but still hope it gets better. They can also have a different definition of better and not be some evil conspiracy nerfer.

Anyways, if people can't handle change they have more issues than a video game. Have fun now.

[Apl_Juice]

Blind2Society wrote...

I remember when this thread was fun satirical thread. Then all these serious people who only ever like to argue had to ruin it. I fear the fun is now forever lost.

Could a mod lock this thread now because with all the words flying around I don't see it falling to the void by itself and it's really getting depressing to think of what it once was.

Believe it or not, people don't like it when their views are misrepresented.