553 réponses à ce sujet

[Peytl]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The head write form ME1 planned that Shepard was going to be indoctrianted. The leaked script has Shepard being indoctrianted and the game has TIm controling Shepard with indoctriantion...
How in any way is it shown it was not planned orginally?

First I've heard of this.

Proof please?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Do you know how many times it was shown already add as well as shown in th elast hours app?

Prove it.

The leaked script I read still had the catalyst in it. Show me the one about Shep being indoctrinated.

Did you miss the part where he's controled by Harbinger? That was in the orignal script.

Im asking you to SHOW me the part of the leaked script that has Shep being indoctrinated.

Link it and quote the appropriate part. All im asking.

You already know it's there. So posting it would be pointless. It 's in the final hours doc.

Just as was many times posted the idea was ultimately droped.

Anyone feels this is getting too repetetive: ITers still ignoring logical conclusions and using fallacy?

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

They said they though about using it via game play but cut it. It doens't mean the concept was cut out. It means it was change from gameplay to pure story with TIM doing the controling instead of HARBINGER.

They didn't even say it was cut. Just that they thought about it. The idea was about Shepard either sacrificing the humans, destroying all the relays, or destroying the reapers because if dark eneegy. 

If you can't bring proofs about the leaked script having it, then it might be because it's not true.

It's in thelast hours app. The sayed the planned to used it via gameplay but the machanice was too difficult. That doesn't mean the story part was cut. jUST CHANGED.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 juin 2012 - 07:12 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...



Im asking you to SHOW me the part of the leaked script that has Shep being indoctrinated.

Link it and quote the appropriate part. All im asking.

You already know it's there. So posting it would be pointless. It 's in the final hours doc.

You were talking out of your ass weren't you?

The leaked script made no reference to Shepard being indoctrinated and you know it. <_<

I think people are getting the final hours app confused with the script leak. In the final hours app they talk about a segment where we would lose control of Shepard via Indoctrination, but the game mechanic wasn't working right so they took it out. More than likely they used that data for the TIM Citadel confrontation or they're still working on it for gameplay. Google the final hours app, should be able to find it in there.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 15 juin 2012 - 07:09 .

[llbountyhunter]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...



Im asking you to SHOW me the part of the leaked script that has Shep being indoctrinated.

Link it and quote the appropriate part. All im asking.

You already know it's there. So posting it would be pointless. It 's in the final hours doc.

You were talking out of your ass weren't you?

The leaked script made no reference to Shepard being indoctrinated and you know it. <_<

The leaked script has harbinger controling Shepard. SO yes , it does.

Prove it.

I would have to find the picture... and im very lazy... you could buy the app....

[dreman9999]

Peytl wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The head write form ME1 planned that Shepard was going to be indoctrianted. The leaked script has Shepard being indoctrianted and the game has TIm controling Shepard with indoctriantion...
How in any way is it shown it was not planned orginally?

First I've heard of this.

Proof please?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Do you know how many times it was shown already add as well as shown in th elast hours app?

Prove it.

The leaked script I read still had the catalyst in it. Show me the one about Shep being indoctrinated.

Did you miss the part where he's controled by Harbinger? That was in the orignal script.

Im asking you to SHOW me the part of the leaked script that has Shep being indoctrinated.

Link it and quote the appropriate part. All im asking.

You already know it's there. So posting it would be pointless. It 's in the final hours doc.

Just as was many times posted the idea was ultimately droped.

Anyone feels this is getting too repetetive: ITers still ignoring logical conclusions and using fallacy?

As I keep saying before...The GAMEPLAY concept was dropped. That doesn't mean the story concept was.
Instead of having Harbinger controling Shepard during gameplay, we have TIM controling Shepard during a cut scene.

[Ageless Face]

dreman9999 wrote...

If every symtom of indoctriantion pops up when TIM control Shepard, then it means it's indoctrination.And Grayson didn't hear clear voices till the final stage of his indoctriantion but he did hear it at the start. Shepard has buzzing sounds,whispers he can't right hear,oily shadow, and he lost most of his motor control. And after that he talk to a ghoustly child on the out side ofthe citadel who was giving him clear suggetions.
How is that not syntoms of indoctriantion?

He heard voices that weren't clear. Not up until he actually understood what the the voices were saying, we wan't indoc. Shepard was controlled even before she understood the voices.

And you forgot to explain about how Shepard talked with her own line of thoughts if she was indoctrinated. Indoctrinated people talk how the controlled wants them to say, unless they are uncontrolled.

Shepard talks to a ghoslty child because he is a powerfull AI that control reapers. 

No, the symptoms are not indoctrination.

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

The Reaper of Rannoch, has ideas on why its doing what it does but it doesn't indicate any knowledge that it's being controlled. In fact I think this would help explain why these huge minds (created from races that have all undergone this horror), seem to all work together and "believe in the cause" despite the different Reapers we meet providing pretty different attitudes towards us and Organics. Sovereign seems to treat us with contempt. Rannoch Reaper seems to genuinely believe that its saving us from something.

I think this feels similar to the way the Reapers manipulate their thralls. They all feel as if they have their own reasons for what they're doing, and that their actions are their own, but they're all being manipulated.

Well, your idea about it is certantly better than mine, I admit. Though the reaper on rannoch kind of seemed to me that he knew about the cause he was sent to, he just didn't reveal it. But if the reapers stayed as we know them from the previous games, it makes a lot of sense.

You mean what he says matches up with what the Starchild tells us? He never indicates that he's aware he's being controlled. For all we know, this particular Reaper was sent to Rannoch BECAUSE of its ideas. There's certainly an inconsistency between what the Starchild tells us and what Sovereign tells us. "You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it." Note.. END, not ASCEND, not "be preserved. Sovereign doesn't seem to like us puny organics.

I think that each Reaper is different, and so their indoctrination provides them different reasons to do what they do.

[jijeebo]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...



Im asking you to SHOW me the part of the leaked script that has Shep being indoctrinated.

Link it and quote the appropriate part. All im asking.

You already know it's there. So posting it would be pointless. It 's in the final hours doc.

You were talking out of your ass weren't you?

The leaked script made no reference to Shepard being indoctrinated and you know it. <_<

I think people are getting the final hours app confused with the script leak. In the final hours app they talk about a segment where we would lose control of Shepard via Indoctrination, but the game mechanic wasn't working right so they took it out. More than likely they used that data for the TIM Citadel confrontation or they're still working on it for gameplay. Google the final hours app, should be able to find it in there.

I though he might have gotten mixed up at first but he keeps mentioning the two as if the Final Hours app and a leaked script mention this plot... So I'm confused.


I haven't read the app myself in quite a while... I'll have to do that sometime.

[Ageless Face]

dreman9999 wrote...

It's in thelast hours app. The say the planed to used it via gameplay but the machanice was too difficult. That doesn't mean the story part was cut. jUST CHANGED.

Really, when was that ever stated? 

At least show us that BioWare said it.

[llbountyhunter]

Peytl wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The head write form ME1 planned that Shepard was going to be indoctrianted. The leaked script has Shepard being indoctrianted and the game has TIm controling Shepard with indoctriantion...
How in any way is it shown it was not planned orginally?

First I've heard of this.

Proof please?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Do you know how many times it was shown already add as well as shown in th elast hours app?

Prove it.

The leaked script I read still had the catalyst in it. Show me the one about Shep being indoctrinated.

Did you miss the part where he's controled by Harbinger? That was in the orignal script.

Im asking you to SHOW me the part of the leaked script that has Shep being indoctrinated.

Link it and quote the appropriate part. All im asking.

You already know it's there. So posting it would be pointless. It 's in the final hours doc.

Just as was many times posted the idea was ultimately droped.

Anyone feels this is getting too repetetive:anti ITers still ignoring logical conclusions and using fallacy?

Fixed:)

[jijeebo]

llbountyhunter wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

]The leaked script has harbinger controling Shepard. SO yes , it does.

Prove it.

I would have to find the picture... and im very lazy... you could buy the app....

Dreman is claiming the leaked script contained it as well as the Final Hours app... So i'm asking for proof.

Modifié par jijeebo, 15 juin 2012 - 07:14 .

[KingZayd]

Peytl wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The head write form ME1 planned that Shepard was going to be indoctrianted. The leaked script has Shepard being indoctrianted and the game has TIm controling Shepard with indoctriantion...
How in any way is it shown it was not planned orginally?

First I've heard of this.

Proof please?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Do you know how many times it was shown already add as well as shown in th elast hours app?

Prove it.

The leaked script I read still had the catalyst in it. Show me the one about Shep being indoctrinated.

Did you miss the part where he's controled by Harbinger? That was in the orignal script.

Im asking you to SHOW me the part of the leaked script that has Shep being indoctrinated.

Link it and quote the appropriate part. All im asking.

You already know it's there. So posting it would be pointless. It 's in the final hours doc.

Just as was many times posted the idea was ultimately droped.

Anyone feels this is getting too repetetive: ITers still ignoring logical conclusions and using fallacy?

The thing says that the scene was dropped (due to difficulty with implenting the mechanics) . It says nothing about the storyline leading to that scene.

Looks like you're not immune to fallacy yourself

[llbountyhunter]

jijeebo wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

]The leaked script has harbinger controling Shepard. SO yes , it does.

Prove it.

I would have to find the picture... and im very lazy... you could buy the app....

Dreman is claiming the leaked script contained it as well as the Final Hours app... So i'm asking for proof.

Grrr... its true.. just wait will I try to find.. its truningputting be a bit difficutl...

Can you at least try googling it as well?

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 15 juin 2012 - 07:17 .

[Makrys]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

It's in thelast hours app. The say the planed to used it via gameplay but the machanice was too difficult. That doesn't mean the story part was cut. jUST CHANGED.

Really, when was that ever stated? 

At least show us that BioWare said it.

Yes, its in the final hours app. They were working with an Indoctrinated Shepard as Nov 2011, but decided the gameplay element was too difficult to implement, so they scrapped it. Never said they scrapped the concept or plot. Just that particular gameplay sequence.

Its very possible that this scene could have evolved into the TIM confrontation, or perhaps something we will see when the EC releases, if they decide to try and implement it via gameplay again, or just a cinematic.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If every symtom of indoctriantion pops up when TIM control Shepard, then it means it's indoctrination.And Grayson didn't hear clear voices till the final stage of his indoctriantion but he did hear it at the start. Shepard has buzzing sounds,whispers he can't right hear,oily shadow, and he lost most of his motor control. And after that he talk to a ghoustly child on the out side ofthe citadel who was giving him clear suggetions.
How is that not syntoms of indoctriantion?

He heard voices that weren't clear. Not up until he actually understood what the the voices were saying, we wan't indoc. Shepard was controlled even before she understood the voices.

And you forgot to explain about how Shepard talked with her own line of thoughts if she was indoctrinated. Indoctrinated people talk how the controlled wants them to say, unless they are uncontrolled.

Shepard talks to a ghoslty child because he is a powerfull AI that control reapers. 

No, the symptoms are not indoctrination.

Not sure what you mean, can never understand the whispers/voices clearly can only guess what they say. The presence of the Nightmare-whispers during the The Illusive Man-Anderson-Citadel conversation is the odd part about it.

Shepard is not indoctrinated yet, the ending sequence would be the Indoctrination Attempt being played out in Shepard's mind/our perspective. If Shepard is successfully indoctrinated I'm sure we'll see all of the symptoms after the fact but for now we have our speculation.

The Catalyst we see can definitely be a hyper-advanced AI controlling the reapers, yes, but it's the fact that it yanks the image of the boy Shepard failed to save from his/her mind and uses it as well the boys voice and male/female Shepards. If it can take things out of Shepard's mind, what's to stop it from putting ideas in? Example, the flash forwards of Anderson picking Destroy and TIM picking control. The whole exchange is...odd.

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If every symtom of indoctriantion pops up when TIM control Shepard, then it means it's indoctrination.And Grayson didn't hear clear voices till the final stage of his indoctriantion but he did hear it at the start. Shepard has buzzing sounds,whispers he can't right hear,oily shadow, and he lost most of his motor control. And after that he talk to a ghoustly child on the out side ofthe citadel who was giving him clear suggetions.
How is that not syntoms of indoctriantion?

He heard voices that weren't clear. Not up until he actually understood what the the voices were saying, we wan't indoc. Shepard was controlled even before she understood the voices.

And you forgot to explain about how Shepard talked with her own line of thoughts if she was indoctrinated. Indoctrinated people talk how the controlled wants them to say, unless they are uncontrolled.

Shepard talks to a ghoslty child because he is a powerfull AI that control reapers. 

No, the symptoms are not indoctrination.

1.So was Grayson and Bensisa. They both were controled before understanding the voices. Even hereing the voices means indoctriantion.
2. Also, you confusing fully indoctrinated with indoctriation in general indoctriation. It come in stages and the person can have there own will. Even Benzia kept her own will and oposed the reapers control on her own underindoction.
3. You can't even give me proof the scene was real. If you can't, how can you tell me whats going on.

Yes, the symtons are indoctriantion, it's just that Shepard is not at the final stage of it. Understand that it comes in stages.

[llbountyhunter]

Here! Here it is!!

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12047832/795


Sorry can post pics at the moment..

[zambot]

KingZayd wrote...

The thing says that the scene was dropped (due to difficulty with implenting the mechanics) . It says nothing about the storyline leading to that scene.

Looks like you're not immune to fallacy yourself

Right.  It does not prove anything about the story one way or the other, thus it cannot be used as proof either for the hypothesis that Shep is indoctrinated, or against it.

[zambot]

Makrys wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

It's in thelast hours app. The say the planed to used it via gameplay but the machanice was too difficult. That doesn't mean the story part was cut. jUST CHANGED.

Really, when was that ever stated? 

At least show us that BioWare said it.

Yes, its in the final hours app. They were working with an Indoctrinated Shepard as Nov 2011, but decided the gameplay element was too difficult to implement, so they scrapped it. Never said they scrapped the concept or plot. Just that particular gameplay sequence.

Its very possible that this scene could have evolved into the TIM confrontation, or perhaps something we will see when the EC releases, if they decide to try and implement it via gameplay again, or just a cinematic.

Correct.  The Final Hours app does not disprove the notion that Shepard is indoctrinated.  By the same token it does not prove it either, so the demand for proof that Bioware said Shep is indoctrinated still stands.

[Ageless Face]

Makrys wrote...


Yes, its in the final hours app. They were working with an Indoctrinated Shepard as Nov 2011, but decided the gameplay element was too difficult to implement, so they scrapped it. Never said they scrapped the concept or plot. Just that particular gameplay sequence.

Its very possible that this scene could have evolved into the TIM confrontation, or perhaps something we will see when the EC releases, if they decide to try and implement it via gameplay again, or just a cinematic.

I meant that the idea was also taken to be part of the actual plot and effected the ending. It might be true, but BioWare never said it was.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Here! Here it is!!




Sorry can post pics at the moment..

There fixed it

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

It's in thelast hours app. The say the planed to used it via gameplay but the machanice was too difficult. That doesn't mean the story part was cut. jUST CHANGED.

Really, when was that ever stated? 

At least show us that BioWare said it.

Let's see...Orginaly, Harbinger was to control Shepard via gameplay and latter TIM via cut scene, both using indoctriantion on him
Now, it just TIM control Shepard with indoctriantion
I would call that a change, not a drop of concept.

[jijeebo]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Here! Here it is!!

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12047832/795


Sorry can post pics at the moment..

I know it's in the Final Hours App...

Dreman is claiming it's also in the leaked script, and that's what I'm asking him to prove.

Modifié par jijeebo, 15 juin 2012 - 07:21 .

[Ageless Face]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Here! Here it is!!

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12047832/795


Sorry can post pics at the moment..

Hmmm, Fair enough. Still it doesn't say if it effects the ending or the whole plot.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 15 juin 2012 - 07:22 .

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

Makrys wrote...


Yes, its in the final hours app. They were working with an Indoctrinated Shepard as Nov 2011, but decided the gameplay element was too difficult to implement, so they scrapped it. Never said they scrapped the concept or plot. Just that particular gameplay sequence.

Its very possible that this scene could have evolved into the TIM confrontation, or perhaps something we will see when the EC releases, if they decide to try and implement it via gameplay again, or just a cinematic.

I meant that the idea was also taken to be part of the actual plot and effected the ending. It might be true, but BioWare never said it was.

The fact that TIm is controling SHepard with indoctriaton means it's still there. Also, stop comfusing the final stage of indoctriation with all of indoctriantion.