553 réponses à ce sujet

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


Trying to explain the endingas they are requires space magic or making huge leaps of speculation.

IT uses neither.

So I should never try to interperate the ending without thinking it was all an hellucination? Sure, it will explain A LOT. And if BioWare planned IT, then I'm just beating my head against the wall.

However, if BioWare didn't plan the IT, I might as well try and speculate, no?

I never said that. In fact i endorse it. Trying to make sense of the endings as they stand can only help IT at this poimt

[dreman9999]

Makrys wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

*sigh* Once again, TIM can only control HUSKS. Not people

Huskified human soldiers. Unlike husks, they still capable of speaking, making rational decision on their own, etc. Some even write diaries.

TIM thinks can control them, when in actuality the Reaper's are just controlling him.

In that case, fighting on the Sanctuary would be impossible. While we clearly see battle between Cerberus troops and husks.

Yes, those soldier's were husks. Shepard is not. TIM can not control people.

That's somewhat obvious, is it not? TIM did not KNOW he was being controlled, and so therefore assigned the base to be defended. That's the whole point of indoctrination, YOU DON'T KNOW THEY'RE IN YOUR MIND. And at this point, they hadn't fully indoctrinated him yet. So, he still maintained some free will. They had simply twisted his mind enough to make him think control was the best option.

Husk's don't hae wills The Cerberus Soldier clear have wills...They are not husk.

[dreman9999]

Lord Goose wrote...

Well the either the catalysit or TIM are lying. or both.

You're missing my point.
TIM is indoctrinated.
His troops are not. What's why, they could fight with Reaper forces, when it doesn't goes against his orders.

Basically, vassal of my vassal.

The cerberus base clearly says that the cerberus solders are indoctrinated. It's in the final video log in the base.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 juin 2012 - 08:52 .

[HellishFiend]

HagarIshay wrote...
Well, it might not be very likely. However Shepard is not controlled as any other indoctrinated. Shepard is very much aware of what is happening. and can control her/himself more. It might mean that TIM's indoctrination devices are weaker. It might also mean that there are multiple ways to indoctrinate someone, TIM used a different method. 

Funny, you sound exactly like Saren. 

Just sayin'....

[Lord Goose]

Yes, those soldier's were husks. Shepard is not. TIM can not control people.

The point is, that his method of indoctrination was different from Reapers method. Since he installed Reaper tech into himself, his powers should also increase.

A) That's assuming the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate one another, or they can't help sending the indoctrination waves to each other.

As far as we know, Indoctrination requires only constant exposure to Reaper's tech. They're exposed to it all the time.

That said, we have no idea what "Higher mental functioning" is to such a mind. For all we know, the Reapers could be mentally retarded compared to their true potential. This would certainly be relevant if say, their controller (if indeed there is one) is using indoctrination on them.

They don't look like gibbering animals to me.

The rogue faction were the ones who thought they could control the Reapers! The equivalent of Cerberus in this cycle. *facepalm*

Guh.
Cerberus is wrong not because they want to control the Reapers. They're wrong because they're trying to sabotage the Crucible. If they wanted to control the Reapers and helped to build the crucible, they wouldn't be even villains.

[dreman9999]

[quote]HellishFiend wrote...

[quote]HagarIshay wrote...
Well, it might not be very likely. However Shepard is not controlled as any other indoctrinated. Shepard is very much aware of what is happening. and can control her/himself more. It might mean that TIM's indoctrination devices are weaker. It might also mean that there are multiple ways to indoctrinate someone, TIM used a different method. 



[/quote]Shepard had limited control. Also, Bensia and Grayson never changed there wills like Saren did.

[Makrys]

dreman9999 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

*sigh* Once again, TIM can only control HUSKS. Not people

Huskified human soldiers. Unlike husks, they still capable of speaking, making rational decision on their own, etc. Some even write diaries.

TIM thinks can control them, when in actuality the Reaper's are just controlling him.

In that case, fighting on the Sanctuary would be impossible. While we clearly see battle between Cerberus troops and husks.

Yes, those soldier's were husks. Shepard is not. TIM can not control people.

That's somewhat obvious, is it not? TIM did not KNOW he was being controlled, and so therefore assigned the base to be defended. That's the whole point of indoctrination, YOU DON'T KNOW THEY'RE IN YOUR MIND. And at this point, they hadn't fully indoctrinated him yet. So, he still maintained some free will. They had simply twisted his mind enough to make him think control was the best option.

Husk's don't hae wills The Cerberus Soldier clear have wills...They are not husk.

They are most definitely indoctrinated.

[dreman9999]

Lord Goose wrote...

Yes, those soldier's were husks. Shepard is not. TIM can not control people.

The point is, that his method of indoctrination was different from Reapers method. Since he installed Reaper tech into himself, his powers should also increase.

But the cerberus soldiers arn't husk. Husk have no will. The cerberus solders do

[llbountyhunter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

*sigh* Once again, TIM can only control HUSKS. Not people

Huskified human soldiers. Unlike husks, they still capable of speaking, making rational decision on their own, etc. Some even write diaries.

TIM thinks can control them, when in actuality the Reaper's are just controlling him.

In that case, fighting on the Sanctuary would be impossible. While we clearly see battle between Cerberus troops and husks.

Yes, those soldier's were husks. Shepard is not. TIM can not control people.

That's somewhat obvious, is it not? TIM did not KNOW he was being controlled, and so therefore assigned the base to be defended. That's the whole point of indoctrination, YOU DON'T KNOW THEY'RE IN YOUR MIND. And at this point, they hadn't fully indoctrinated him yet. So, he still maintained some free will. They had simply twisted his mind enough to make him think control was the best option.

Husk's don't hae wills The Cerberus Soldier clear have wills...They are not husk.

There very husk-like on mars.

[dreman9999]

Makrys wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

*sigh* Once again, TIM can only control HUSKS. Not people

Huskified human soldiers. Unlike husks, they still capable of speaking, making rational decision on their own, etc. Some even write diaries.

TIM thinks can control them, when in actuality the Reaper's are just controlling him.

In that case, fighting on the Sanctuary would be impossible. While we clearly see battle between Cerberus troops and husks.

Yes, those soldier's were husks. Shepard is not. TIM can not control people.

That's somewhat obvious, is it not? TIM did not KNOW he was being controlled, and so therefore assigned the base to be defended. That's the whole point of indoctrination, YOU DON'T KNOW THEY'RE IN YOUR MIND. And at this point, they hadn't fully indoctrinated him yet. So, he still maintained some free will. They had simply twisted his mind enough to make him think control was the best option.

Husk's don't hae wills The Cerberus Soldier clear have wills...They are not husk.

They are most definitely indoctrinated.

No one is arguing that.

[Ageless Face]

dreman9999 wrote...

Proof that it's different? Because based onthe plot it's the same.

I said it only a speculation of mine, didn't I? I don't need to give you a proof for that if I only speculate.

And if you break down every little thing,then no. It's not the same thing as the reaper use. It might be similar, VERY similar, but it's not exaclty the same from reasons I already said. It can be (speculation) the same technology but used differently or something.

[dreman9999]

llbountyhunter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

*sigh* Once again, TIM can only control HUSKS. Not people

Huskified human soldiers. Unlike husks, they still capable of speaking, making rational decision on their own, etc. Some even write diaries.

TIM thinks can control them, when in actuality the Reaper's are just controlling him.

In that case, fighting on the Sanctuary would be impossible. While we clearly see battle between Cerberus troops and husks.

Yes, those soldier's were husks. Shepard is not. TIM can not control people.

That's somewhat obvious, is it not? TIM did not KNOW he was being controlled, and so therefore assigned the base to be defended. That's the whole point of indoctrination, YOU DON'T KNOW THEY'RE IN YOUR MIND. And at this point, they hadn't fully indoctrinated him yet. So, he still maintained some free will. They had simply twisted his mind enough to make him think control was the best option.

Husk's don't hae wills The Cerberus Soldier clear have wills...They are not husk.

There very husk-like on mars.

So is every person who is implanted with reaper tech. It does mean they are husk...Husk means mindless.

[Makrys]

Lord Goose wrote...

Yes, those soldier's were husks. Shepard is not. TIM can not control people.

The point is, that his method of indoctrination was different from Reapers method. Since he installed Reaper tech into himself, his powers should also increase.

A) That's assuming the Reapers are trying to indoctrinate one another, or they can't help sending the indoctrination waves to each other.

As far as we know, Indoctrination requires only constant exposure to Reaper's tech. They're exposed to it all the time.

That said, we have no idea what "Higher mental functioning" is to such a mind. For all we know, the Reapers could be mentally retarded compared to their true potential. This would certainly be relevant if say, their controller (if indeed there is one) is using indoctrination on them.

They don't look like gibbering animals to me.

The rogue faction were the ones who thought they could control the Reapers! The equivalent of Cerberus in this cycle. *facepalm*

Guh.
Cerberus is wrong not because they want to control the Reapers. They're wrong because they're trying to sabotage the Crucible. If they wanted to control the Reapers and helped to build the crucible, they wouldn't be even villains.

Wtf? TIM wants to control the Reapers. He says this numerous times. Really... this is getting ridiculous. They're trying to sabotage the crucible because they're indoctrinated. HELLO! Same thing happened with the Protheans. 

Why is this so hard to understand. The Catalyst says so in the end. 'We already controlled him'. Therefore if TIM did something, the Reapers wanted him to.

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Proof that it's different? Because based onthe plot it's the same.

I said it only a speculation of mine, didn't I? I don't need to give you a proof for that if I only speculate.

And if you break down every little thing,then no. It's not the same thing as the reaper use. It might be similar, VERY similar, but it's not exaclty the same from reasons I already said. It can be (speculation) the same technology but used differently or something.

Please, show how they are differnet for one another.(I know you would be able to do it with out being wrong.0

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 juin 2012 - 09:00 .

[Lord Goose]

Because TIM doesnt think hes indoctrinated,.... just like everyone else whi is indoctrinated.... not that difficult to understand.

You're missing the point again.

If all Cerberus troops were indoctrinated, where wouldn't be any fighting on the Sanctuary. But we clearly see huskified human soldiers fighting husks, instead of simply giving up to their Reaper masters.

[Ageless Face]

HellishFiend wrote...


Funny, you sound exactly like Saren. 

Just sayin'....

Excuse me? 

Why? 

Shepard is speaking her/his mind when being controlled by TIM, and don't just do what TIM says without any question, right?

What exactly have I said that makes me sound like Saren here?

[KingZayd]

Lord Goose wrote...

*sigh* Once again, TIM can only control HUSKS. Not people

Huskified human soldiers. Unlike husks, they still capable of speaking, making rational decision on their own, etc. Some even write diaries.

TIM thinks can control them, when in actuality the Reaper's are just controlling him.

In that case, fighting on the Sanctuary would be impossible. While we clearly see battle between Cerberus troops and husks.

He can do both. He can control the husks, and he can use indoctrination. Cerberus troops are partially huskified AND indoctrinated. Apparently the partial huskification improves their combat skills.

[Makrys]

dreman9999 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

*sigh* Once again, TIM can only control HUSKS. Not people

Huskified human soldiers. Unlike husks, they still capable of speaking, making rational decision on their own, etc. Some even write diaries.

TIM thinks can control them, when in actuality the Reaper's are just controlling him.

In that case, fighting on the Sanctuary would be impossible. While we clearly see battle between Cerberus troops and husks.

Yes, those soldier's were husks. Shepard is not. TIM can not control people.

That's somewhat obvious, is it not? TIM did not KNOW he was being controlled, and so therefore assigned the base to be defended. That's the whole point of indoctrination, YOU DON'T KNOW THEY'RE IN YOUR MIND. And at this point, they hadn't fully indoctrinated him yet. So, he still maintained some free will. They had simply twisted his mind enough to make him think control was the best option.

Husk's don't hae wills The Cerberus Soldier clear have wills...They are not husk.

They are most definitely indoctrinated.

No one is arguing that.

They are husks. I fail to see how they have free will. That is never evidenced. They do exactly as they're told. Just like husks. They never exemplified any free will. They were essentially early examples of a husk. Walking, talking husks. This was showcased on Mars.

[Makrys]

HagarIshay wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Funny, you sound exactly like Saren. 

Just sayin'....

Excuse me? 

Why? 

Shepard is speaking her/his mind when being controlled by TIM, and don't just do what TIM says without any question, right?

What exactly have I said that makes me sound like Saren here?

Saren always thought he was in control. He always told himself he was invulnerable to Sovereign. He was always wrong.

[Lord Goose]

Wtf? TIM wants to control the Reapers. He says this numerous times. Really... this is getting ridiculous. They're trying to sabotage the crucible because they're indoctrinated. HELLO! Same thing happened with the Protheans.

They're trying to sabotage the crucible because they're indoctrinated. Not because they want to control the Reapers. It's not the same thing. Without Crucible it is impossible to control Reapers, so sabotaging it is against desire to control.

[Makrys]

Lord Goose wrote...

Because TIM doesnt think hes indoctrinated,.... just like everyone else whi is indoctrinated.... not that difficult to understand.

You're missing the point again.

If all Cerberus troops were indoctrinated, where wouldn't be any fighting on the Sanctuary. But we clearly see huskified human soldiers fighting husks, instead of simply giving up to their Reaper masters.

Its part of the illusion the Reapers have cast on TIM. Do you really think if the soldiers didn't fight the husks, that TIM would believe he could control them? Think! 

[KingZayd]

Lord Goose wrote...

risking, not sacrificing , destroy risks Shepard's life while saving the soldiers

Still, it's good parallel for me. Risking your own life means, that you're willing to sacrifice yourself for your allies.

While destroy sounds more like Ruthless.

The Ruthless character sent 3/4ths of his/her unit to its death and murdered surrendering batarians on Torfan.

Well the Reapers unfortunately were not surrendering. "I think we'd rather be left alone (or something along those lines)" "No."

Shepard was willing to risk his life and I suppose the Geth to save the majority of his allies in destroy.

Modifié par KingZayd, 15 juin 2012 - 09:04 .

[Makrys]

Lord Goose wrote...

Wtf? TIM wants to control the Reapers. He says this numerous times. Really... this is getting ridiculous. They're trying to sabotage the crucible because they're indoctrinated. HELLO! Same thing happened with the Protheans.

They're trying to sabotage the crucible because they're indoctrinated. Not because they want to control the Reapers. It's not the same thing. Without Crucible it is impossible to control Reapers, so sabotaging it is against desire to control.

Dude... the whole notion of wanting to control the Reapers COMES FROM BEING INDOCTRINATED. And THEY WANT THE CRUCIBLE SO TIM CAN ATTEMPT TO CONTROL THEM. ITS JUST AN ILLUSION THE REAPERS HAVE CAST ON HIS MIND. IT. IS. IMPOSSIBLE. TO. CONTROL. THE. REAPERS. IF CERBERUS HAS THE CRUCIBLE, THE REAPERS HAVE IT. This is not complicated.

The EXACT same thing happened to the Protheans. Which led to their defeat. A splinter group was indoctrinated by the Reapers, and so they thought they could control them. Thus, they caused the defeat of that cycle when they sabotaged the crucible. 

Modifié par Makrys, 15 juin 2012 - 09:06 .

[Ageless Face]

dreman9999 wrote...

Please, show how they are differnet for one another.(I know you would be able to do it with out being wrong.0

*Sigh* Again? REALLY?

Whispers that Shepard can't understand while being controlled. Different than what we learned in the book Retrubution.

Shepard can speak like him/herself but all the other parts of the body is being controlled. Never happens in indoctrination.


It can mean that TIM is using a differnt method. It can also mean that Shepard is hallucinating, but I personally don't believe it. It can also mean other things that I didn't think about yet.

[KingZayd]

HellishFiend wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...
Well, it might not be very likely. However Shepard is not controlled as any other indoctrinated. Shepard is very much aware of what is happening. and can control her/himself more. It might mean that TIM's indoctrination devices are weaker. It might also mean that there are multiple ways to indoctrinate someone, TIM used a different method. 

Funny, you sound exactly like Saren. 

Just sayin'....

:S but she's (sorry if i'm getting it wrong) not saying anything about Submission being preferable to extinction, nor is she talking about synthesis "The strengths of both.. etc."?