553 réponses à ce sujet

[Ageless Face]

dreman9999 wrote...

On the issue on Arrival.
My Shepard was there. Your's was not. It doesn't mean the plot will ignore it or whatever the writer plan won't be used. I just like how Liara is the Shadow broker in ME3 no matter what, the same can be said with Shepards indoctrination if the writes did  us it.
If you Shepard was not in the events of the arrival, you stillhave 3 on and of years near reapers tech that causes it.
And even thing, bw still wroting in the plot with ME:conviction.

My Shepard was also there. There are many people that didn't play Arrival. It's a DLC, not canon for god sake. 

Shepard was didn't travel with a reaper everywhere, Shepard didn't grow reaper tech inside her. Aside from Arrival, Shepard was near reaper tech for a very short time each. If you say Shepard is indoc by this, then pretty much every person on Earth is indoctrinated also, the reapers were on Earth for a few months, and the reaper tech they brought with them.

[Makrys]

Arrival is most definitely canon. Confirmed by Bioware multiple times. And featured in the comics. Its not in the comics unless its canon.

[Ageless Face]

Makrys wrote...

Arrival is most definitely canon. Confirmed by Bioware multiple times. And featured in the comics. Its not in the comics unless its canon.

I meant canon for Shepard's story. If it was, then why isn't it in the game? Why does it say in the codex (if I'm not mistaken) that some Alliance special operatives or something did it, and not Shepard?

Modifié par HagarIshay, 15 juin 2012 - 07:56 .

[Joccaren]

You can view it as Bioware's idea if you wish, however it is fanfiction - like it or not.
Bioware's plan was not a dream sequence, but for you to lose control of Shepard. Sadly, this obviously didn't work too well [Likely because you're not in control of Shepard for 90% of the cutscenes anyway, so they can't take your ability to choose what Shepard says away after its already been taken] and they abandoned it.
IT as it currently is is fan fiction based off numerous small bits and pieces from ME3 that just so happen to fit together to make a theory. Half of them aren't even valid ["Dream plants" anyone?].
Bioware have made it abundantly clear that IT was not their plan, and the only way you can defend against this is the "They want it to be a surprise" line - which makes no sense considering the surprise is already 100% ruined thanks to the 500000 threads on IT in these forums.

[Makrys]

HagarIshay wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Arrival is most definitely canon. Confirmed by Bioware multiple times. And featured in the comics. Its not in the comics unless its canon.

I meant canon for Shepard's story. If it was, then why isn't it in the game? Why does it say in the codex (if I'm not mistaken) that some Alliance special operatives or something did it, and not Shepard?

Well, because obviously, if you're Shepard didn't do it the game isn't going to tell you that you did.

Bioware considers it canon. 

[Ageless Face]

Makrys wrote...

Well, because obviously, if you're Shepard didn't do it the game isn't going to tell you that you did.

Bioware considers it canon. 

So, what? Shepard did it without us knowing it? It wasn't said Shepard did it regardless. Only that the events of Arrival happned. BioWare consideres the EVENTS canon. Not Shepard doing them as canon. Shepard doesn't do arrival- Harby doesn't try to indoc him/her. If not all Shepard got indoctrinated from Arrival- no Shepard got indoc from the events of Arrival. And the odds are VERY low if Shepard got indoc by anyting else aside from arrival. 

So unless BioWare did a whole different ending for the people who didn't complete Arrival, the odds for those Shepards to be indoc are very, very low.

[Sisterofshane]

Makrys wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Arrival is most definitely canon. Confirmed by Bioware multiple times. And featured in the comics. Its not in the comics unless its canon.

I meant canon for Shepard's story. If it was, then why isn't it in the game? Why does it say in the codex (if I'm not mistaken) that some Alliance special operatives or something did it, and not Shepard?

Well, because obviously, if you're Shepard didn't do it the game isn't going to tell you that you did.

Bioware considers it canon. 

Bioare considers it THEIR canon.  It is not "canon" in general.

Explanation?  It is explained within ME3 that, when Shepard either failed to complete or never got the mission to rescue Dr. Kenson, that a groupd of alliance marines was sent to do it instead.  They are then the one's who were responsible for blowing up the Alpha Relay.

However, for the "extra" media, such as books and comics, Bioware has decided that "their" Shepard did in fact blow up the Alpha relay.  This is along the same lines of the new Dragon Age Comic in which Alistair was made King - it is not canon in the games, and they will not retcon the individual players decision in subsequent games.  When you write supplemental media, however, it is sometimes necessary to "set up" decisions that cannot be reflected within the media.

Sovereign being destroyed?  That's canon.  Recruiting Mordin Solus in ME2?  That's canon (although whether he lives or dies is not).  Shepard encountering Object Rho is NOT canon.

[SauliusL]

draken-heart wrote...

i looked at the breath picture, and noticed the background.



looks like the Citadel to me.
got it had to up load it to scrapbook on DA.

Looks more like a fallen reaper to me

 

(picture of Harbinger)

Fallen after mental battle with Shepard? (personal opinion/speculation)

Modifié par SauliusL, 15 juin 2012 - 09:18 .

[Arian Dynas]

Illbountyhunter, I am ashamed of you.

You make this thread for the purpose of explaining IT...

And don't even reference one of my posts?

[KingZayd]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Makrys wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Arrival is most definitely canon. Confirmed by Bioware multiple times. And featured in the comics. Its not in the comics unless its canon.

I meant canon for Shepard's story. If it was, then why isn't it in the game? Why does it say in the codex (if I'm not mistaken) that some Alliance special operatives or something did it, and not Shepard?

Well, because obviously, if you're Shepard didn't do it the game isn't going to tell you that you did.

Bioware considers it canon. 

Bioare considers it THEIR canon.  It is not "canon" in general.

Explanation?  It is explained within ME3 that, when Shepard either failed to complete or never got the mission to rescue Dr. Kenson, that a groupd of alliance marines was sent to do it instead.  They are then the one's who were responsible for blowing up the Alpha Relay.

However, for the "extra" media, such as books and comics, Bioware has decided that "their" Shepard did in fact blow up the Alpha relay.  This is along the same lines of the new Dragon Age Comic in which Alistair was made King - it is not canon in the games, and they will not retcon the individual players decision in subsequent games.  When you write supplemental media, however, it is sometimes necessary to "set up" decisions that cannot be reflected within the media.

Sovereign being destroyed?  That's canon.  Recruiting Mordin Solus in ME2?  That's canon (although whether he lives or dies is not).  Shepard encountering Object Rho is NOT canon.

Can you explain why the Shepards that did Arrival aren't indoctrinated?

[SubAstris]

[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...


If IT is true then bioware sold me an incomplete game.
this one is true, however this shouldnt be regarded as a bad thing, nor should many people be particularly suprised by this. after all, when has ANY mass effect game been sold complete? without the need for any DLC?

dont forget bioware also asked EA for 3 extra months and EA said "no".... perhaps IT was used to buy more time?

and dont worry, I know that there is a difference between side story dlc, and dlc that is a critical part of the story (although.... from the ashes...), but these lines are being blurred more every day by gaming companies.

http://www.cinemable...6-99-40917.html 

http://www.gamespot....essions-6234008 

as we can see, If IT is true, then bioware is far from bieng the first company to separate the ending of a game. at least they didnt charge us $6.99!!! [/quote]

I think your writing off of BW as just doing "what every else does" doesn't justify their decision to it, simply it is a "tu quoque". Also, from what I know of at least one of the games, Prince of Persia, that was a first game to a sequel; ME3 was meant to be the end of Shepard's story completely. I can move easily see Epilogue DLC being done for the previous story, since it is one act in a continuing story.



[/quote]

[Ageless Face]

KingZayd wrote...


Can you explain why the Shepards that did Arrival aren't indoctrinated?

If the Shepard that did Arrival ARE indoctrinated, it means that all the Shepards that didn't need to somehow also be indoctrinated, otherwise BioWare will need to make two different endings. But the Shepards that didn't do Arrival weren't near reaper tech long enough, so it doesn't make much sense for them to be indoctrinated.

So it's either make two different endings, or make every Shepard be indoc, even when it's doesn't make sense.

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


Can you explain why the Shepards that did Arrival aren't indoctrinated?

If the Shepard that did Arrival ARE indoctrinated, it means that all the Shepards that didn't need to somehow also be indoctrinated, otherwise BioWare will need to make two different endings. But the Shepards that didn't do Arrival weren't near reaper tech long enough, so it doesn't make much sense for them to be indoctrinated.

So it's either make two different endings, or make every Shepard be indoc, even when it's doesn't make sense.

Or make every Shepard not indoc even when it doesn't make sense, as some seem to suggest.

[Ageless Face]

KingZayd wrote...


Or make every Shepard not indoc even when it doesn't make sense, as some seem to suggest.

True. But I think (only think, not really sure) that the time Shepard has spent near the reaper artifact is not such a huge emount of time to be near a reaper tech. Dr.Kenson placed Shepard away from the artifact for the two days. The effects might not have been so major inside the medical bay. So it might make more sense for all the Shepards NOT to be indoc at all, then all of them to be. Though it is possible, of course.

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

On the issue on Arrival.
My Shepard was there. Your's was not. It doesn't mean the plot will ignore it or whatever the writer plan won't be used. I just like how Liara is the Shadow broker in ME3 no matter what, the same can be said with Shepards indoctrination if the writes did  us it.
If you Shepard was not in the events of the arrival, you stillhave 3 on and of years near reapers tech that causes it.
And even thing, bw still wroting in the plot with ME:conviction.

My Shepard was also there. There are many people that didn't play Arrival. It's a DLC, not canon for god sake. 

Shepard was didn't travel with a reaper everywhere, Shepard didn't grow reaper tech inside her. Aside from Arrival, Shepard was near reaper tech for a very short time each. If you say Shepard is indoc by this, then pretty much every person on Earth is indoctrinated also, the reapers were on Earth for a few months, and the reaper tech they brought with them.

As I said before. It's like how Liara is always the Shadow broker. Even if you don't play it
And you still not understand how indoctrination works. It matte not how long Shepard is in the indoctriantion feilds, the fact that he is in them repeidly is enough.  The fact that he get in the waves alot allows indoctrantion to happen.
Also, If you Shepard did do arrival, it 'ssilly to say it's not cannon being how much it's mentioned in ME3's plot. Lastly, you don't even know how much time near an indoctriantion device is need to indoctrinate, no one does.

[Arian Dynas]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


Can you explain why the Shepards that did Arrival aren't indoctrinated?

If the Shepard that did Arrival ARE indoctrinated, it means that all the Shepards that didn't need to somehow also be indoctrinated, otherwise BioWare will need to make two different endings. But the Shepards that didn't do Arrival weren't near reaper tech long enough, so it doesn't make much sense for them to be indoctrinated.

So it's either make two different endings, or make every Shepard be indoc, even when it's doesn't make sense.

So... wandering around in the gut of a Derelict Reaper, fighting a Reaper Fetus on foot, then later waltzing by it without a second thought, fighting countless numbers of indoctrinated enemies and husks, dealing with Sovereign, the time spent in the Collector Base, and probably several others I'm not thinking of is not long enough for you?

Even though it only takes ONE exposure to start the process?

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


Can you explain why the Shepards that did Arrival aren't indoctrinated?

If the Shepard that did Arrival ARE indoctrinated, it means that all the Shepards that didn't need to somehow also be indoctrinated, otherwise BioWare will need to make two different endings. But the Shepards that didn't do Arrival weren't near reaper tech long enough, so it doesn't make much sense for them to be indoctrinated.

So it's either make two different endings, or make every Shepard be indoc, even when it's doesn't make sense.

Arrival has nothing to do how ME3 ends. And the Shepard's that didn't do Arrival still have all the contact with reaper tech since ME1 that can cause indoctrination.

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


Or make every Shepard not indoc even when it doesn't make sense, as some seem to suggest.

True. But I think (only think, not really sure) that the time Shepard has spent near the reaper artifact is not such a huge emount of time to be near a reaper tech. Dr.Kenson placed Shepard away from the artifact for the two days. The effects might not have been so major inside the medical bay. So it might make more sense for all the Shepards NOT to be indoc at all, then all of them to be. Though it is possible, of course.

You not getting that is stacks. Be near on bit of indoctrinating reaper tech, leaving and then going near the onather one one over and over is just as bad as being near just one till it does indoctriates you. Indoctrination is like brain damege, it does go away and stack over the previous damage.

[dreman9999]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


Can you explain why the Shepards that did Arrival aren't indoctrinated?

If the Shepard that did Arrival ARE indoctrinated, it means that all the Shepards that didn't need to somehow also be indoctrinated, otherwise BioWare will need to make two different endings. But the Shepards that didn't do Arrival weren't near reaper tech long enough, so it doesn't make much sense for them to be indoctrinated.

So it's either make two different endings, or make every Shepard be indoc, even when it's doesn't make sense.

So... wandering around in the gut of a Derelict Reaper, fighting a Reaper Fetus on foot, then later waltzing by it without a second thought, fighting countless numbers of indoctrinated enemies and husks, dealing with Sovereign, the time spent in the Collector Base, and probably several others I'm not thinking of is not long enough for you?

Even though it only takes ONE exposure to start the process?

^This times 1000.

[Ageless Face]

Arian Dynas wrote...


So... wandering around in the gut of a Derelict Reaper, fighting a Reaper Fetus on foot, then later waltzing by it without a second thought, fighting countless numbers of indoctrinated enemies and husks, dealing with Sovereign, the time spent in the Collector Base, and probably several others I'm not thinking of is not long enough for you?

Even though it only takes ONE exposure to start the process?

Don't you need to be near one tech for a LONG time? Not just a few hours.

I'm not sure it's 100% correct, but I think you need to be near a specific reaper tech for a long time. Isn't one reaper tech need to imprint you with the indoctrination then? You can't just jump from reaper tech to another and the tech will continue the indoc process  when the last tech stopped. 

Modifié par HagarIshay, 15 juin 2012 - 11:29 .

[Arian Dynas]

HagarIshay wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


So... wandering around in the gut of a Derelict Reaper, fighting a Reaper Fetus on foot, then later waltzing by it without a second thought, fighting countless numbers of indoctrinated enemies and husks, dealing with Sovereign, the time spent in the Collector Base, and probably several others I'm not thinking of is not long enough for you?

Even though it only takes ONE exposure to start the process?

Don't you need to be near one tech for a LONG time? Not just a few hours.

I'm not sure it's 100% correct, but I think you need to be near a specific reaper tech for a long time. Isn't one reaper tech need to imprint you with the indoctrination then? You can't just jump from reaper tech to another and the tech will continue the indoc process  when the last tech stopped. 

No sweetheart, Reaper tech only takes a little bit of time, and some artifacts take only a few seconds of exposure. Some, like the Arch Monolith, can actually indoctrinate you through physical touch, turning you instantly into a Husk, which even if you touch a husk created in that manner can be dangerous, since that husk is capable of indoctrinating you too.

And Reaper Indoctrination, to use a metaphor, is less like building the foundations of a skyscraper. Think of it more this way. it's like a hole being ripped in a piece of fabric. Gravity and time will eventually make the tear larger on it's own, but if there is someone tugging at it, it goes faster, just like the presence of Reaper tech. 

Indoctrination only needs to be started to give the Reapers an in, a hole in your mind to start ripping, assuming they want to take the slow route of course, which can take months or even years. Recall that The Harbinger has an effectively unlimited range, he could posses the Collector General from Dark Space, and STILL use him as a hub to assume direct control.

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


Or make every Shepard not indoc even when it doesn't make sense, as some seem to suggest.

True. But I think (only think, not really sure) that the time Shepard has spent near the reaper artifact is not such a huge emount of time to be near a reaper tech. Dr.Kenson placed Shepard away from the artifact for the two days. The effects might not have been so major inside the medical bay. So it might make more sense for all the Shepards NOT to be indoc at all, then all of them to be. Though it is possible, of course.

The thing is, EVERYBODY who had this sort of artifact activate on them ended up indoctrinated. On Shanxi, Ben was huskified very quickly. Desolas (Saren's brother) became indoctrinated. It's hinted that this is where TIM and maybe even Saren's indoctrination truly started.

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


So... wandering around in the gut of a Derelict Reaper, fighting a Reaper Fetus on foot, then later waltzing by it without a second thought, fighting countless numbers of indoctrinated enemies and husks, dealing with Sovereign, the time spent in the Collector Base, and probably several others I'm not thinking of is not long enough for you?

Even though it only takes ONE exposure to start the process?

Don't you need to be near one tech for a LONG time? Not just a few hours.

I'm not sure it's 100% correct, but I think you need to be near a specific reaper tech for a long time. Isn't one reaper tech need to imprint you with the indoctrination then? You can't just jump from reaper tech to another and the tech will continue the indoc process  when the last tech stopped. 

As stated before, It's like brain damage. Any exposer to indoctriantion waves builds on the pervious damage done before. On and off contact can do it as well.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 juin 2012 - 11:40 .

[dreman9999]

x

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 juin 2012 - 11:41 .

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...


So... wandering around in the gut of a Derelict Reaper, fighting a Reaper Fetus on foot, then later waltzing by it without a second thought, fighting countless numbers of indoctrinated enemies and husks, dealing with Sovereign, the time spent in the Collector Base, and probably several others I'm not thinking of is not long enough for you?

Even though it only takes ONE exposure to start the process?

Don't you need to be near one tech for a LONG time? Not just a few hours.

I'm not sure it's 100% correct, but I think you need to be near a specific reaper tech for a long time. Isn't one reaper tech need to imprint you with the indoctrination then? You can't just jump from reaper tech to another and the tech will continue the indoc process  when the last tech stopped. 

Actually what happens with Rana suggests otherwise. The fact that TIM can take control of Reaper husks suggests that once someone is controlled, anything else can build on that control and take over.


As for the threshold for starting the process.. nothing  tells us in terms of general exposure. In terms of the artifacts, the comics suggest one activation is enough.

Modifié par KingZayd, 15 juin 2012 - 11:43 .