553 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

I did not get kasumi, and yet her mission still happened, though wih a different character.

Another cannon.

Technactly you got minos a character. The spectre is there regardless.

We don't know if Shepard can be indoctrinated from short periouds of times through reaper tech. No one in the game did before. So until we get a clear answer wether it's possible you can only speculate, the IT is on a huge question mark, like it or not. And if the person that did Arrival is not canon, you cannot base the IT on Shepard being there.

Shepard DIDNT get indoctrinated by all that reaper tech. Thats not what IT states. you just get reaper influence.

You making a argument that isnt there.

False.. Some people (myself included) would classify the reaper influence as indoctrination. There isn't just indoctrinated and not indoctrinated, there's a scale.

AKA indoctriantion comes in stages.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 juin 2012 - 04:46 .

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


No,  but we can take the understanding that Object Rho was put there for a reason (IMO to hint at Shepard becoming indoctrinated in the future) and we would expect Shepards who did have Object Rho activate on them to become indoctrinated, unless there was an explanation as to why he didn't. Besides have you honestly never wondered why Shepard has never been indoctrinated? Even fast indoctrination would STOP him at the very least.. even if it turned him into a mindless husk.

Well sure, if Shepard doing Arrival is canon no matter what. But since s/he doesn't, Shepard can't be indoc from this specific situation.

And I can honestly say I never wondred why Shepard was never indoc before I read about the IT.

Then you are on of the few who failed to see the obvious.

[Ageless Face]

llbountyhunter wrote...


So your saying shepard resisted right?

Not quite. Shepard was simply not enough time near the tech to be infected by it. As his/her squadmates.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 15 juin 2012 - 04:49 .

[dreman9999]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


No,  but we can take the understanding that Object Rho was put there for a reason (IMO to hint at Shepard becoming indoctrinated in the future) and we would expect Shepards who did have Object Rho activate on them to become indoctrinated, unless there was an explanation as to why he didn't. Besides have you honestly never wondered why Shepard has never been indoctrinated? Even fast indoctrination would STOP him at the very least.. even if it turned him into a mindless husk.

Well sure, if Shepard doing Arrival is canon no matter what. But since s/he doesn't, Shepard can't be indoc from this specific situation.

And I can honestly say I never wondred why Shepard was never indoc before I read about the IT.

1. Shepard still has the 3 years and on and off contact with reaper tech...And yes that can indoctriante people that way, Saren and Rane were indoctrianted with on and off contact.

2.He cleary was not in the advance stage of it. Indoctriantion come in stages. The first stage has no control over a person and is just setting things up to get more control of the person.

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


So your saying shepard resisted right?

Not quite. Shepard was simply not enough time near the tech to be infected by it. As his/her squadmates.

This is were the events of canical arrival carry over.

We have already shown that while maybe your shepard didnt do the DLC the events themselfs do carry over.... as the case with any dlc.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 15 juin 2012 - 04:55 .

[llbountyhunter]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

I did not get kasumi, and yet her mission still happened, though wih a different character.

Another cannon.

Technactly you got minos a character. The spectre is there regardless.

We don't know if Shepard can be indoctrinated from short periouds of times through reaper tech. No one in the game did before. So until we get a clear answer wether it's possible you can only speculate, the IT is on a huge question mark, like it or not. And if the person that did Arrival is not canon, you cannot base the IT on Shepard being there.

Shepard DIDNT get indoctrinated by all that reaper tech. Thats not what IT states. you just get reaper influence.

You making a argument that isnt there.

False.. Some people (myself included) would classify the reaper influence as indoctrination. There isn't just indoctrinated and not indoctrinated, there's a scale.

AKA indoctriantion comes in stages.

True, but cant you also get influence and NOT be indoctrinated? like grayson?

[Ageless Face]

KingZayd wrote...


1. We have no information about how long it takes for indoctrination to begin. So it's certainly plausible. I'm not saying IT is definitely true, but it works, so it CAN be true. Yes, it's speculation.. but it's valid speculation.

Never said it wasn't valid. It can be very true. But a speculation is still a speculation.

[jtav]

For the last time, if the player does not complete Arrival (which is the default) a squad of marines blow up the relay, resulting in a penalty to assets. Shepard is not involved.

[zambot]

llbountyhunter wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...


And bt the same token shepard has been in contact wih hundred of other reaper artifact.

The situation is the same with all the DLC: makes more sense if you have it, but you can understand the story without it.

There is a difference. If you don't have Kasumi DLC, BioWare can't just bring her in the game, and act like she knows Shepard. Because she does not.

Shepard can't be indoctrinated because the events of Arrival if s/he wan't there.

but the kasumi mission still happens in me3.

Shepard still ends up indoctrinated in me3.

Just stop. Please. Stop.

I think I finally got it.  You're not arguing that Shepard got indoctrinated from Object Rho in Arrival for people who did not do the DLC.  You're arguing that Shepard got indoctrinated through some other means that is not at all explained or mentioned in ME3 if that Shepard did not do Arrival.  That makes sense.  And one cannot argue against headcanon.

[Ageless Face]

llbountyhunter wrote...

This is were the events of canical arrival carry over.

We have already shown that while maybe your shepard didnt do the DLC the events themselfs do carry over.... as the case with any dlc.

How can Shepard be infected if s/he wasn't there? If there are Shepards who were not infected because of the events of Arrival, then BioWare can't base the ending on it.

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


1. We have no information about how long it takes for indoctrination to begin. So it's certainly plausible. I'm not saying IT is definitely true, but it works, so it CAN be true. Yes, it's speculation.. but it's valid speculation.

Never said it wasn't valid. It can be very true. But a speculation is still a speculation.

We never said it was anythig more than a theory. 

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


1. We have no information about how long it takes for indoctrination to begin. So it's certainly plausible. I'm not saying IT is definitely true, but it works, so it CAN be true. Yes, it's speculation.. but it's valid speculation.

Never said it wasn't valid. It can be very true. But a speculation is still a speculation.

Which is the case with every explanation for the endings.

[Ageless Face]

llbountyhunter wrote...



We never said it was anythig more than a theory. 

Well, maybe you haven't...

But anyway, you can't base a theory on speculations. A theory is one big speculation based on evidences.

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

This is were the events of canical arrival carry over.

We have already shown that while maybe your shepard didnt do the DLC the events themselfs do carry over.... as the case with any dlc.

How can Shepard be infected if s/he wasn't there? If there are Shepards who were not infected because of the events of Arrival, then BioWare can't base the ending on it.

And on the other hand, if there are Shepards who were infected becasue of the events there, Bioware can't neglect that. The way I see it, it's far easier to handwave indoctrination by other sources than it is to handwave Shepard's apparent immunity to indoctrination.

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...



We never said it was anythig more than a theory. 

Well, maybe you haven't...

But anyway, you can't base a theory on speculations. A theory is one big speculation based on evidences.

There is evidence AND speculation.

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...



We never said it was anythig more than a theory. 

Well, maybe you haven't...

But anyway, you can't base a theory on speculations. A theory is one big speculation based on evidences.

...like evolution?

[KingZayd]

llbountyhunter wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

I did not get kasumi, and yet her mission still happened, though wih a different character.

Another cannon.

Technactly you got minos a character. The spectre is there regardless.

We don't know if Shepard can be indoctrinated from short periouds of times through reaper tech. No one in the game did before. So until we get a clear answer wether it's possible you can only speculate, the IT is on a huge question mark, like it or not. And if the person that did Arrival is not canon, you cannot base the IT on Shepard being there.

Shepard DIDNT get indoctrinated by all that reaper tech. Thats not what IT states. you just get reaper influence.

You making a argument that isnt there.

False.. Some people (myself included) would classify the reaper influence as indoctrination. There isn't just indoctrinated and not indoctrinated, there's a scale.

False. Paul grayson resisted the effects of indoctrination, for a very long time, and would of resisted loger had he not been ingected with red sand.

Read the ME books

It doesn't say he prevented the indoctrination from entering his mind. He was indoctrinated. Shiala refers to herself as indoctrinated, even though she's perfectly in control (as far as she's aware)

[Ageless Face]

KingZayd wrote...


There is evidence AND speculation.

True, there are. But if this speculation is not true, then the theory is false without any question. You are mostly basing the theory on this speculation. 

[llbountyhunter]

KingZayd wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

I did not get kasumi, and yet her mission still happened, though wih a different character.

Another cannon.

Technactly you got minos a character. The spectre is there regardless.

We don't know if Shepard can be indoctrinated from short periouds of times through reaper tech. No one in the game did before. So until we get a clear answer wether it's possible you can only speculate, the IT is on a huge question mark, like it or not. And if the person that did Arrival is not canon, you cannot base the IT on Shepard being there.

Shepard DIDNT get indoctrinated by all that reaper tech. Thats not what IT states. you just get reaper influence.

You making a argument that isnt there.

False.. Some people (myself included) would classify the reaper influence as indoctrination. There isn't just indoctrinated and not indoctrinated, there's a scale.

False. Paul grayson resisted the effects of indoctrination, for a very long time, and would of resisted loger had he not been ingected with red sand.

Read the ME books

It doesn't say he prevented the indoctrination from entering his mind. He was indoctrinated. Shiala refers to herself as indoctrinated, even though she's perfectly in control (as far as she's aware)

But he did prevent it from entering his mind... he was in full control of his body..... 

I think considering him indoctrinated or not is a matter if perception at this point....

[llbountyhunter]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


There is evidence AND speculation.

True, there are. But if this speculation is not true, then the theory is false without any question. You are mostly basing the theory on this speculation. 

Thankfully the speculation fits exaclty with wats known in the me universe.

[Ageless Face]

llbountyhunter wrote...

...like evolution?

You really like evolution, aren't you?

And the evidences for evolution are the bones. the theory is a speculation that men changed from the monkey.

[SubAstris]

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Joccaren wrote...

You can view it as Bioware's idea if you wish, however it is fanfiction - like it or not.
Bioware's plan was not a dream sequence, but for you to lose control of Shepard. Sadly, this obviously didn't work too well [Likely because you're not in control of Shepard for 90% of the cutscenes anyway, so they can't take your ability to choose what Shepard says away after its already been taken] and they abandoned it.
IT as it currently is is fan fiction based off numerous small bits and pieces from ME3 that just so happen to fit together to make a theory. Half of them aren't even valid ["Dream plants" anyone?].
Bioware have made it abundantly clear that IT was not their plan, and the only way you can defend against this is the "They want it to be a surprise" line - which makes no sense considering the surprise is already 100% ruined thanks to the 500000 threads on IT in these forums.

incorrect. IT is a theory, if has plenty of evidence backing it up. fanfic does not.

this is like calling evolution, fanatic fiction. 

Really don't compare the evidence for IT to that for evolution

Sorry, Point to the solid proof of evolution please.

What?

This has to be explined? Do you know the difference between a theory and a law in science?

You clearly have no idea what the conversation is about and miss the point

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


There is evidence AND speculation.

True, there are. But if this speculation is not true, then the theory is false without any question. You are mostly basing the theory on this speculation. 

Like I said, there is a lot of speculation involved with any interpretation of the endings, which is what Bioware wanted (whether that was good or not). That said, I feel as if I've used enough examples to back up the vast majority of my speculation.

Modifié par KingZayd, 15 juin 2012 - 05:14 .

[Ageless Face]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Thankfully the speculation fits exaclty with wats known in the me universe.

Well, that is headcanon.

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

...like evolution?

You really like evolution, aren't you?

And the evidences for evolution are the bones. the theory is a speculation that men changed from the monkey.

well.. shares a common ancestor with.