147 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

Hackulator wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

You can't point out objective positives. They simply don't exist.

We can point out objective flaws.

There's the fundamental difference.

Enjoyable combat, great storyline, great score, quality voice acting, a game that caused me to be emotionally invested more than any other single player game I can remember. Now, let me point out that suggesting any opinion on what is a work of art (regardless of whether you think its a GOOD work of art) is OBJECTIVE is silly. However, I can easily point out many things which I think were amazing in the game, if you want to argue about subjectivity vs objectivity when critiquing art I'm not going to waste my time.

Every single one of those is an opinion. Not a single one is concrete.

The godawful textures on Anderson's hands are something that is objectively bad. The Crucible and Catalyst are objectively bad. MacGuffin's and Deus Ex Machinas are objectively bad. That's the basis of the trope is that they're bad.

Where, in any of my post, did you ascertain that I'm arguing opinion vs fact? My point is that you can't just ass-kiss the game by clinging to the positives, while at the same time ignoring the negatives, like you've been doing in this thread.

[o Ventus]

jreezy wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Fetch quests, sprites, low textures, rushed lazy ass story, horrendous ending...

Pretty strong case there.

Lol "sprites". Mass Effect 3 may be the first game this generation that I've actually seen those.

I legitimately forgot those existed in this console generation.

I haven't seen one since at least 1997.

[Erield]

Hackulator wrote...

Enjoyable combat, great storyline, great score, quality voice acting, a game that caused me to be emotionally invested more than any other single player game I can remember. Now, let me point out that suggesting any opinion on what is a work of art (regardless of whether you think its a GOOD work of art) is OBJECTIVE is silly. However, I can easily point out many things which I think were amazing in the game, if you want to argue about subjectivity vs objectivity when critiquing art I'm not going to waste my time.

I agree that there are objectively good things about ME3.  As you stated, the music and voice acting definitely qualify.  If you think that there aren't any objectively bad things about the ending then I'm just left astounded.

The introduction of a new, over-arching antagonist in the final scenes of a story is objectively bad.  Changing the emphasis of the story in the final scenes is objectively bad.  Failing to provide a denoument is objectively bad.  Providing such a jarring change in the pacing and feel of the game in the final scenes is objectively bad.  Forcing characters to act out of character in the final scenes is objectively bad (Shepard, the Catalyst, the Reapers, the Normandy, and the Normandy's crew).  Having in-game canon that suggests when one thing happens there will be a certain result, and then changing that at the very end and being surprised when they are confused is stupid.  (Yes, I'm talking about the Relays.)

Promising certain things and then delivering the exact opposite is objectively bad.

Edit: @ Hackulator.  I may have interpreted the way you were saying things in your OP poorly.  It seemed to me more like bragging than anything else; since this wasn't the case, I apologize. 

Modifié par Erield, 13 juin 2012 - 04:10 .

[FlamingBoy]

hated it, not as good as the other 2. the game is good but literally a lesser in every regard except for some combat mechanics

[Deputy Secretary of Awesome]

Love the game. Just started my third playthrough with my third character from ME2. I thought the ending was very unusual and basically unfulfilling, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the EC has something interesting planned, so now I'm just waiting for that. Even if the EC isn't what I hoped for, it was still overall a great game that I enjoyed tremendously.

[Reptilian Rob]

o Ventus wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Fetch quests, sprites, low textures, rushed lazy ass story, horrendous ending...

Pretty strong case there.

Lol "sprites". Mass Effect 3 may be the first game this generation that I've actually seen those.

I legitimately forgot those existed in this console generation.

I haven't seen one since at least 1997.

I know, I know...

No sense was made...Just kind of cements this fact this game was lazy and rushed. They have no right saying it was their "artistic integrity."

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 13 juin 2012 - 04:33 .

[TheClonesLegacy]

...Hate's too strong a word I find,
I don't mind the game.

[Taboo]

I loved the series quite a bit. The ending makes quite a few things worse.

I'd like to let everyone know that I talked with some professors recently. Specifically those who teach art. They are using Mass Effect as an example on not how to market art. I'm dead serious too. Hudson and Walters mistake will be immortalized forever at college in Montana, New York and Los Angeles.

This is the price of failure everyone.

The priiiiiiiiiiiiice.

[Eluril]

Oooh no not professors (shock and horror!) They've never been wrong before.....I had a professor who claimed Shakespeare in Love was objectively the greatest film ever. And this isn't even getting close to things like philosophy, economics, and politics where I would say the majority of the academy is objectively on the wrong side. Just sayin'

[o Ventus]

Eluril wrote...

Oooh no not professors (shock and horror!) They've never been wrong before.....I had a professor who claimed Shakespeare in Love was objectively the greatest film ever. And this isn't even getting close to things like philosophy, economics, and politics where I would say the majority of the academy is objectively on the wrong side. Just sayin'

This is just me, but I value the word of a learned professor who is payed to teach something over some random ****.

And how can philosophy and politics be objectively wrong?

[Eluril]

o Ventus wrote...

Eluril wrote...

Oooh no not professors (shock and horror!) They've never been wrong before.....I had a professor who claimed Shakespeare in Love was objectively the greatest film ever. And this isn't even getting close to things like philosophy, economics, and politics where I would say the majority of the academy is objectively on the wrong side. Just sayin'

This is just me, but I value the word of a learned professor who is payed to teach something over some random ****.

And how can philosophy and politics be objectively wrong?

I don't want to turn this into a debate. But I'd say when your ideas lead to mass murder or nihilistic relativism, it's a pretty safe bet you've failed.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I don't.

[chemiclord]

To the OP:

I think the majority of "fans" think the ending is pretty bad (then again, most endings are, really), but aren't in a frothing rage about it.

For me, it's terrible on many levels, artistically and mechanically, but it hasn't particularly ruined the series as far as I'm concerned. Then again, I'm also one of a seemingly distinct minority that finds ME1 to be the weakest of the trilogy, so I'm probably one of those dreaded "casual players" that the "hardcore fans" blame for ruining everything good about the series.

[o Ventus]

Eluril wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Eluril wrote...

Oooh no not professors (shock and horror!) They've never been wrong before.....I had a professor who claimed Shakespeare in Love was objectively the greatest film ever. And this isn't even getting close to things like philosophy, economics, and politics where I would say the majority of the academy is objectively on the wrong side. Just sayin'

This is just me, but I value the word of a learned professor who is payed to teach something over some random ****.

And how can philosophy and politics be objectively wrong?

I don't want to turn this into a debate. But I'd say when your ideas lead to mass murder or nihilistic relativism, it's a pretty safe bet you've failed.

I'm pretty sure when I myself (as Shepard, I mean) serve as a counterpoint to the murder bit, I'm fairly certain there wasn't any mass murder in my choice.

[Taboo]

Actually, it's worse than professors. I may have let it slip what I was doing here when I was at my condo the last time.

To one of Spielberg's former producers. Gerald Molen. We happen to have condos in the same village in Montana.

Some VERY big people are aware of the issue.

[dreamgazer]

No.

There are penetrating flaws, both with the core game and the ending, but it's still a solid installment with more than a few moments of excellence---even in parts of the much-maligned Citadel sequences at the close.

There's no denying that it's a step down from the rest of the series, though, and that's due to operational elements (rigid dialogue options, morality dynamic, how surface-level the fetch quests were, the awful map mini-game). But it gets plenty right in the storytelling, and the polished level design and gameplay.

[dreamgazer]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Actually, it's worse than professors. I may have let it slip what I was doing here when I was at my condo the last time.

To one of Spielberg's former producers. Gerald Molen. We happen to have condos in the same village in Montana.

Some VERY big people are aware of the issue.

You need to start backing your talk up, man. It's getting really out of hand, and more than a little hard to believe with the frequency you mention it. 

[Hackulator]

ME1 has a great storyline but the gameplay is meh.

I really enjoyed ME2 but at the same time it made ZERO sense....entire human colonies are disappearing but the Alliance is doing nothing, I die and come back to life and then join CERBERUS, who is responsible for the defining tragedy of my character's life (I was a sole survivor).

ME3 is amazing up til the ending and I still love it even given the ending.

[Taboo]

dreamgazer wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Actually, it's worse than professors. I may have let it slip what I was doing here when I was at my condo the last time.

To one of Spielberg's former producers. Gerald Molen. We happen to have condos in the same village in Montana.

Some VERY big people are aware of the issue.

You need to start backing your talk up, man. It's getting really out of hand, and more than a little hard to believe with the frequency you mention it. 

I'm not going to give you explicit details about my life, but I'll share some specifics.

I own a condominuim in Big Fork, Montana. He owns one as well. Shooting things with a camera attracts interest. Wealthy people live in Big Fork. It wasn't long before I attracted attention. He's my shoe in.

My connection to HBO is Stephanie Ambrose Tubbs, whose fathers book, Undaunted Courage is being adapted for a film.

My connection to Broadway is an old school friend of my Mother's. She can get me jobs for plays. Ever see Cry Baby? Those were her costumes.

[Mathias]

I thought it was the weakest of the trilogy, and that's not because of the ending. Although that's one of the reasons.

[Tregon]

Hackulator wrote...

...or is it just a vocal internet minority? Me and the majority of my real life friends LOVED the game. Although we all agree the ending was weak and needed a rewrite, overall we thought ME3 was amazing, possibly one of the best games we ever played. Included in this group of friends are 2 writers and designers for tabletop RPGs (myself and a friend, published), one video game designer with a Master's Degree in Entertainment Technology, a number of programmers and developers, and a fair number of people who have nothing to do with the gaming industry.

This suggests to me that perhaps this game is not nearly as hated as it seems, rather that the million people who loved the game felt no need to come on the internet and complain about it. Obviously this is a terrible place to ask this question if I hope to get a real answer, but it was still something I wanted to put out there and see what people had to say.

Well, do you and your friends have other ME games? Asking because you have registered 3, but none others. Result would most likely be different for the game for person who has no previous knowledge and one who might have played all three.

Also, you forget something here when you assume there are millions of happy campers. You present yourself as representative of group, of which apparently nobody else posts here?
But also appear to think those of us deeply unhappy with the mess made of ending as individuals. Can't do that my mate. If you and your positive reaction present group, of which only one is vocal, then why we others do not also do that?

By that math, we still get huge number of very unhappy people. The "vocal minority" refers to exactly that. It is the tip of the iceberg which is above water. But while it may look small, it is only part of much larger component.

[Beeno4Life]

The plot was really kind of silly, when you think about it. It starts off revealing a Deus Ex Machina, and then the other twenty eight hours are a massive fetch quest. Then the ending is a turd.

[webhead921]

I think it's a fantastic game. I really enjoyed the Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs, as well as Grissom Academy. I thought the Citadel was great too. The characters were very well written and the voice acting was great. It has my favorite soundtrack of the 3. It did not end as well as it could have, but it does not undermine my overall positive feelings about the game. It is way to glitchy, but then again ME1 was worse in that department. Not the best in the series, but still a fantastic game. One of my favorite this gen.

[indyracing]

I don't personally know anyone who played through ME 3 who did NOT think the ending was bad.

Granted, that's only me and 6 other people, but 7 out of 7 people I know (including myself) think the ending was anywhere from Bad (on the high end) to The Worst Ending To Any Story Ever (on the lowest of the low end - that's 3 of the 7 - including myself).