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[Jedi Master of Orion]

I usually left him behind in Lothering on my playthroughs and didn't take him until my third run, so I don't quite have the clearest grasp on all his opinions like the others, but after I checked all the ones I missed online ,I begin to question if his character was fully realized because I'm not sure they all seem to make sense.

I get that he's one of the harsher characters but there are certain things that I'd expect a Qunari to respect and support and others not so much, yet near as I can figure the most common pattern is that he usually respects evil choices no matter what the context. For example, he hates mages and magic. Of course, for a Qunari that makes perfect sense.

He will encourage you to kill the Circle and will even disaprove of using the any type of magic to save Connor from a demon. Now that will not surprise me, but other times he seems to support use of magic for a much less noble goal. He will approve of letting Caladrius and the tevinter blood mages go and will approve of using BLOOD MAGIC to make yourself stronger by killing all the captured elves. I know he is supposed to respect pragmatism but it makes no sense he'd suddenly support the method's of the Qunari's hated enemies to do it. At one point I think he even approve of letting a demon posses a child and go free in order to get to Shale quicker. Demons are the ultimate antithesis to the Qun, I'd expect him to approve of killing the demon no matter the cost. Plus, I know Qunari think of bas as less than "human" but even they seem to prefer not to kill them for no reason much less as a sacrifice to magic. Otherwise why does Sten even feel remorse for his murders at all?

In Redcliff he also seems to be slightly confusing in his moralizing. He will approve of giving money to a woman who wants to leave to help her escape yet demands you ignore anyone else's pleas for help. It's obviously not because he considers her a noncombatant because he fiinds the concept of women and children not helping fight the undead absurd.

There are also a couple of times where his reaction to honesty vs betrayal seems a little inconsistent but that's an issue that other Qunari seem to also have.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 13 juin 2012 - 02:02 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I usually left him behind in Lothering on my playthroughs and didn't take him until my third run, so I don't quite have the clearest grasp on all his opinions like the others, but after I checked all the ones I missed online ,I begin to question if his character was fully realized because I'm not sure they all seem to make sense.

I get that he's one of the harsher characters but there are certain things that I'd expect a Qunari to respect and support and others not so much, yet near as I can figure the most common pattern is that he usually respects evil choices no matter what the context. For example, he hates mages and magic. Of course, for a Qunari that makes perfect sense.

He will encourage you to kill the Circle and will even disaprove of using the any type of magic to save Connor from a demon. Now that will not surprise me, but other times he seems to support use of magic for a much less noble goal. He will approve of letting Caladrius and the tevinter blood mages go and will approve of using BLOOD MAGIC to make yourself stronger by killing all the captured elves. I know he is supposed to respect pragmatism but it makes no sense he'd suddenly support the method's of the Qunari's hated enemies to do it.

He describes the bargain as "A prudent choice, even if such foul magic must be involved." (I think I got the exact words.) As for Connor and the Circle... the Qunari are paranoid about abominations. They are so completely insanely paranoid that if a qunari mage is separated from their handler (who literally keeps them on a leash), then that mage and any non-handler who comes into contact with them has to die. (I guess Sten and the Warden don't qualify because they're technically acting as handlers.)

On the other hand, he also gets creeped out by the Anvil of the Void. As far as I can tell, the qunari are okay with direct attack magic, and that only used sparingly and under close supervision. The increased vitality thing is an exception, because it results in stengthening an existing warrior rather than sacrificing a living being to create a giant stone monster. (And I gotta admit, those things are scary.)

At one point I think he even approve of letting a demon posses a child and go free in order to get to Shale quicker. Demons are the ultimate antithesis to the Qun, I'd expect him to approve of killing the demon no matter the cost.

I looked it up online, and yes, he approves of killing the demon no matter the cost. It's the only choice wikia mentions as giving approval points for him.

Plus, I know Qunari think of bas as less than "human" but even they seem to prefer not to kill them for no reason much less as a sacrifice to magic. Otherwise why does Sten even feel remorse for his murders at all?

It represented a loss of discipline, and there's also the "killing for no reason" thing you mentioned.

In Redcliff he also seems to be slightly confusing in his moralizing. He will approve of giving money to a woman who wants to leave to help her escape yet demands you ignore anyone else's pleas for help. It's obviously not because he considers her a noncombatant because he fiinds the concept of women and children not helping fight the undead absurd.

You mean the bit with Bella? This is you making a promise to help after the battle, rather than getting sidetracked for maybe five minutes at a time while the daylight hours before the attack are ticking away, right? As for Owen's request, Sten seems to think you're lying to him. (Don't remember how he reacts when he finds out the Warden meant it, if the Warden meant it.)

There are also a couple of times where his reaction to honesty vs betrayal seems a little inconsistent but that's an issue that other Qunari seem to also have.

Could you be more specific?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 13 juin 2012 - 04:01 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Does anyone realize that Sten is actually A SPY?

He said the Antaam are eyes and ears for Qunari when you ask "Why Qunari sent soldiers here?", he tell you in cryptic manner that he is actually a Qunari spy...Sten is actually an enemy spy sent to spying on Ferelden...if you bring him along you help a spy gathering infos on the land that about to be conquered later...

And here I've kept him alive every time, bring him along occasionally, and teach him the Templar spec frequently. I feel like an idiot.

[Corker]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Does anyone realize that Sten is actually A SPY?

My Surana learned blood magic because he was afraid of a qunari invasion coming on the heels of the Blight, when Ferelden's mage population was decimated by Uldred's shenanigans.  Obviously what mages there were would need to learn ways to draw even more power from other sources.

So, yes.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Lols, i realized he is a spy as soon as he said that in my very first playthrough....

He is a soldier, sent to Ferelden, his main mission is to spy on Ferelden, his secondary mission is to investigate the Blight, then report back to Arishok. he said he can't report back because he lost his sword...and that maybe his cover up, we don't know it is really the Qunari custom or just a made up... we only hear about Qunari from him...he said he kill the farmers because panicked he lost his sword...that is BS...how far Lake Calenhad and Lothering Chantry?

If the sword thing is just a pretense, he's one hell of an actor. Pretty dedicated too. As for cover, there are plenty of Vashoth mercenaries in Ferelden. If Sten wanted a cover for what he's really doing, seems to me that would be it, rather than openly admitting he's a qunari. Of course, he doesn't need one for his scout-out-the-darkspawn thing (which I think is honest) and it provides a cover for his spying on Ferelden (I think he's multi-tasking.)

He kill the farmers because he fear the farmers reveal his secret/identity...but he get caught by the Templars, he don't resist capture, because he need to be alive to report back...

He doesn't bother hiding his identity, and nobody can really prove he's spying on Ferelden. (As proof, I offer the fact that nobody took the precaution of actively wasting him, even though the Templars had him prisoner. And while there are likely those in the Templar Order who'd sell out whatever country they're in in a second, there's no way they'd do it for the Qunari. Even if they did, it seems to me they'd let Sten go rather than imprisoning him with the intent of slow execution.)

That is why he don't care if we release him from the cage or not and give no reason to us to release him...if we release him, then it is a bonus to him, he is free to collect infos...if he die in the cage, that give an excuse to Arishok to attack Ferelden because "human kill him in the cage" (there is a dialogue path to Revered Mother about this)

I don't remember that dialogue option, but there's no way that would work out. Even leaving aside that the Arishok ends up preoccupied in the next game (which neither Sten, the Warden, nor probably even the Arishok saw coming, hence why I'm not emphasizing that) there's no way the Arishok would be able to find him or what happened to him.

He always want to rush on things, not even want to stop...he give excuse "the darkspawn are waiting"...we can bust him out saying "what is your hurry?", there you see he get caught "you say hurry but i call it duty", then we can say "it is not your duty to against the Blight"...why he want to hurry? because he want to spy on everything FAST

Part spying, part honest curiousity, part cultural aversion to wasting time (not explicity said anywhere, but they don't waste anything), part wanting the Blight to end so the country he's living in doesn't go belly-up. (The exact manner in which it would go belly-up is darkspawn, so anyone in that country has a vested interest in either that not happening, or not being in the country when it happens. Whether because he's spying, or whether that sword thing is the truth, he can't do that second one.)

and he is very secretive not even tell his real name...now figure that out...lols...if you guys aware...he is very defensive from revealing anything to us...we just assume "all Qunari are like that"...

No, apparently that last bit holds up according to Q&A threads from Bioware, and info from the second game. What we would consider a personal name is used by the Qunari priests to determine who to breed with who. (Qunari culture is creepy.)

[Corker]

Nizaris1 wrote...

He is a soldier, sent to Ferelden, his main mission is to spy on Ferelden, his secondary mission is to investigate the Blight, then report back to Arishok. he said he can't report back because he lost his sword...and that maybe his cover up, we don't know it is really the Qunari custom or just a made up... we only hear about Qunari from him...

...

and he is very secretive not even tell his real name...now figure that out...lols...if you guys aware...he is very defensive from revealing anything to us...we just assume "all Qunari are like that"...

Haven't played DA2, I take it.

I believe that Sten's primary mission was to investigate the Blight.  But naturally, he'd report back on whatever else he sees while he's in Ferelden.

Besides, he's not the one you have to worry about. It's the viddathari spies - elves, humans, dwarves - that provide the real field intelligence.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I give a perspective in DA:O environment and DA:O game-play, not DA2, we can bust him out if we aware the dialogue path with/about him, his reaction, body language, party banter, Ferelden map, story comparison ect when playing, we can know who he really is in DA:O, no need DA2

Which has nothing to do with the information in that game which is inconvenient to one of your arguments, of course.

[Corker]

Nizaris1 wrote...

I give a perspective in DA:O environment and DA:O game-play, not DA2, we can bust him out if we aware the dialogue path with/about him, his reaction, body language, party banter, Ferelden map, story comparison ect when playing, we can know who he really is in DA:O, no need DA2

That depends. If you're trying to formulate what, in-character, your Warden might think of Sten, then no, you don't need to reference DA2.

If you're trying to assert in some absolute, lore-referenced fashion what is or isn't true, then you can and you should.  The qunari in DA2 support much of what Sten says in Origins, leading one to believe, out of character, that he's truthful.

In-character, your Warden can believe whatever you like.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
He describes the bargain as "A prudent choice, even if such foul magic must be involved." (I think I got the exact words.) As for Connor and the Circle... the Qunari are paranoid about abominations. They are so completely insanely paranoid that if a qunari mage is separated from their handler (who literally keeps them on a leash), then that mage and any non-handler who comes into contact with them has to die. (I guess Sten and the Warden don't qualify because they're technically acting as handlers.)

On the other hand, he also gets creeped out by the Anvil of the Void. As far as I can tell, the qunari are okay with direct attack magic, and that only used sparingly and under close supervision. The increased vitality thing is an exception, because it results in stengthening an existing warrior rather than sacrificing a living being to create a giant stone monster. (And I gotta admit, those things are scary.)

But you only get increased vitality by sacrificing many innocent elves using the worst magic. In fact in terms of pure strength, I think it is less benefitial to slightly boost the toughness of one organic warrior than to create a giant stone or metal one. Moreover, it's far more inefficiant, since the anvil requires one organic to create one golem. The ritual kills many elves. If Sten regerets killing those families, why would he not feel the same for the elves? If anything I'd imagine he'd feel worse since elves tend to be more likely to embrace the Qun if given the chance.

I'll admit it makes more sense after they acknowledge him being unhappy with blood magic being used. Still why would he approve of ANY action encouraged by TEVINTER MAGES?

 I think the worst part is he approves of letting his mortal enemies go with more slaves. The Qunari aren't exactly paragons of freedom but when Tevinter Magisters atrocities are invovled there is no part of that situation that  Sten should have approved of.

The bas saarebas belonging to the only nation that is still at war with his people gets away with more slaves instead being put down.

I looked it up online, and yes, he approves of killing the demon no matter the cost. It's the only choice wikia mentions as giving approval points for him.

Hmm, I never had him for the decision I think, so I must have misremembered what I read about it.

Could you be more specific?

I think he will react dissapprovingly when other characters like Anora or Zathrien betray the party, yet he actually expects you to break your promise to Owen in Redcliff and apparently he approves of getting Zathrien down to the Werewolves to kill him under the pretense of talking. I suppose one could argue that he only gets upset when it happens to him, but he doesn't seemt to have this same issue with other things.

Admittedly this issue seems to be similar with other Qunari. In Dragon Age 2, the Arishok is uncomfortable even having his named attached to a debt that he didn't make, yet neither he nor Sten nor any Qunari really make any secret of the fact that they are going break the Llomerryn Accords in the future.

Nizaris1 wrote...

Lols, i realized he is a spy as soon as he said that in my very first playthrough....

He is a soldier, sent to Ferelden, his main mission is to spy on Ferelden, his secondary mission is to investigate the Blight, then report back to Arishok. he said he can't report back because he lost his sword...and that maybe his cover up, we don't know it is really the Qunari custom or just a made up... we only hear about Qunari from him...he said he kill the farmers because panicked he lost his sword...that is BS...how far Lake Calenhad and Lothering Chantry?

He kill the farmers because he fear the farmers reveal his secret/identity...but he get caught by the Templars, he don't resist capture, because he need to be alive to report back...

That is why he don't care if we release him from the cage or not and give no reason to us to release him...if we release him, then it is a bonus to him, he is free to collect infos...if he die in the cage, that give an excuse to Arishok to attack Ferelden because "human kill him in the cage" (there is a dialogue path to Revered Mother about this)

He always want to rush on things, not even want to stop...he give excuse "the darkspawn are waiting"...we can bust him out saying "what is your hurry?", there you see he get caught "you say hurry but i call it duty", then we can say "it is not your duty to against the Blight"...why he want to hurry? because he want to spy on everything FAST

and he is very secretive not even tell his real name...now figure that out...lols...if you guys aware...he is very defensive from revealing anything to us...we just assume "all Qunari are like that"...

Sten is not a very good spy then, because you said he tells you he is a spy. And tells you that the Qunari will attack Thedas. The Arishok does not need a reason to attack Ferelden, spreading the Qun is reason enough. Letting himself die would not have helped and even if it did, how would the Arishok have known about it? How would the farmers have known his "secret identity?" If he really wanted to spy on Ferelden why would he follow the Warden around? He could travel faster and more efficiently by himself. Also, For Qunari, their roles are their names. Sten is reluctant to talk about what he considers superfluous things, but he doesn't make a secret of his duty.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 16 juin 2012 - 04:27 .

[caradoc2000]

Does Sten's character make sense

"Make war, not sense", is the Creed of the Antaam.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

If he was a spy, why would he admit it at all? And why wouldn't he try to kill the Warden after he defeated the Archdemon then?

[gandanlin]

I'd say Sten makes sense as a character.

He and other members of his culture seem to live according to a Bushido/Spartan-type of warrior philosophy. He has no respect for those who do not fight in their own defense, he abhors magical practices, and he is very direct (and literal) in his manner of speech.

He is a member of the vanguard, so he is both a spy and an omen of an impending invasion.

[Get Magna Carter]

My main frustration with him was after persuading the smith to get to work (promising to try to rescue his daughter) but while still within earshot Sten asked "Is that another promise you don't intend to keep?"
Very blunt and totally lacking tact
On the spy thing, I do understand there was a point in history when (at least some) spies were open about it (seems odd now but I suppose spying was simpler then).

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

If he was a spy, why would he admit it at all? And why wouldn't he try to kill the Warden after he defeated the Archdemon then?

He only admits it to a Warden he respects. I guess he feels that Warden deserves the truth. As to the trying to kill the Warden thing... he's seen first-hand what a bad idea that is. On the other hand, he did offer to take my Warden to Par Vollen, which I can only assume implies an attempt to convert him to the Qun...

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 25 juin 2012 - 12:57 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I'll admit it makes more sense after they acknowledge him being unhappy with blood magic being used. Still why would he approve of ANY action encouraged by TEVINTER MAGES?

Why would he disapprove of a useful weapon just because it's being granted by the Tevinters? If he distrusted it, that would be one thing, and it would arguably be a smart move. But he's shown as taking the Tevinter at his word, and thinking only of the deal by it's own merits. He seems to write off the slaves more easily than he should, and it looks weird since he doesn't like the Anvil. Although maybe he just trusts a slightly strengthened Warden more than a massively empowered dwarf that Branka can completely control?

 I think the worst part is he approves of letting his mortal enemies go with more slaves. The Qunari aren't exactly paragons of freedom but when Tevinter Magisters atrocities are invovled there is no part of that situation that  Sten should have approved of.

The bas saarebas belonging to the only nation that is still at war with his people gets away with more slaves instead being put down.

The qunari would see all the Magisters put down like the mad dogs many of them are. But then, I don't think that's Sten's job at the moment. Sten is being sent to find out what the deal is with the Blight, and one might easily assume he's trying to scout out Ferelden too. If letting a magister escape with more non-qunari slaves helps with that, why not?

Could you be more specific?

I think he will react dissapprovingly when other characters like Anora or Zathrien betray the party, yet he actually expects you to break your promise to Owen in Redcliff and apparently he approves of getting Zathrien down to the Werewolves to kill him under the pretense of talking. I suppose one could argue that he only gets upset when it happens to him, but he doesn't seemt to have this same issue with other things.

Admittedly this issue seems to be similar with other Qunari. In Dragon Age 2, the Arishok is uncomfortable even having his named attached to a debt that he didn't make, yet neither he nor Sten nor any Qunari really make any secret of the fact that they are going break the Llomerryn Accords in the future.

He disapproves of the promise to Owen he expects you to break. As to Zathrian, he'd already massively misrepresented his part in the affair to the Warden. Maybe he no longer considers Zathrian to be worthy of fair play?

Sten is not a very good spy then, because you said he tells you he is a spy. And tells you that the Qunari will attack Thedas. The Arishok does not need a reason to attack Ferelden, spreading the Qun is reason enough. Letting himself die would not have helped and even if it did, how would the Arishok have known about it? How would the farmers have known his "secret identity?" If he really wanted to spy on Ferelden why would he follow the Warden around? He could travel faster and more efficiently by himself. Also, For Qunari, their roles are their names. Sten is reluctant to talk about what he considers superfluous things, but he doesn't make a secret of his duty.

Traveling a country that has an Archdemon in it by yourself is not a good idea. Sten had a platoon with him, now he doesn't. I think that's part of why he travels with the Warden. The rest is that he sticks out like a sore thumb, and because his primary objective is the Blight you're trying to end. As to the rest of that, I think you have it.

[PizzaThe Hutt]

I think the Sten was just scouting for the Arishok and if he got information on enemy armies, why would he pass that up?  Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Arigena or Ariqun already had spies stationed in Fereldan.  Remember in MOTA Tallis was trying to recover a list of spy names and locations?  I wouldn't be surprised if some names on that list were stationed in Fereldan...  I don't really think the Antaam feel it necessary for them to have spies as well since they are more of fighters and not information gatherers of the Qunari.