196 réponses à ce sujet

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Since the main objective of this game is to kill enemies, there is simply no power that is more powerful than a gigantic damage bonus.  And right now, Infiltrator is the only class that gets this.  That should not be.  It's the one balance issue that should take priority over all others.  There are two options:

1) Nerf Tactical Cloak - Perhaps the most unfavorable option, since infiltrator snipers are used to their nice damage bonus that they've had for a while.

2) Buff Other classes - This is perhaps the more favorable option, as it would not weaken the Infiltrator.  It would simply improve weaker classes to be somewhat closer to the Infiltrator in terms of damage they can inflict.  There is no reason why Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

[Ashen One]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

Sentinels are not combat experts.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

Sentinels are not combat experts.

Then what are they?  What's the point of using them?  To play as a weak solider/biotic hybrid?  No thanks.

[Elite3141]

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

Sentinels are not combat experts.

In Mass Effect 3 they are, sadly.  Well, sort of.  They're paired with Soldiers in multiplayer (Vorcha and possibly Batarian Sentinels even get combat powers) and get the same weight capacity bonus as Vanguards and Infiltrators in singleplayer.

[Lee80]

If all the classes got weapon damage bonus, there would be no point to having different classes. Adepts are just as powerful, or more so if working in teams than an infiltrator. Engineers are great at what they do, and almost work in a way that's not comparable to the other classes. All the classes are unique for their own reasons.

Good players can top the score board with either of the classes(not that the score actually means anything). The balance thing is just not as big of an issue as people want it to be.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Elite3141 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

Sentinels are not combat experts.

In Mass Effect 3 they are, sadly.  Well, sort of.  They're paired with Soldiers in multiplayer (Vorcha and possibly Batarian Sentinels even get combat powers) and get the same weight capacity bonus as Vanguards and Infiltrators in singleplayer.

Regardless, multiplayer IS combat.  To say that somebody isn't a combat specialist...then what IS their specialty?  They really don't seem to have one.  There isn't really a reason to play as one.

[Ashen One]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

Sentinels are not combat experts.

Then what are they?  What's the point of using them?  To play as a weak solider/biotic hybrid?  No thanks.

Sentinels are Tech and Biotic.

Vanguards, Soldiers, and Infiltrators are the only combat experts in the game, therefore they are the only classes that should realistically get weapon damage bonuses in their respective class powers. (obviously there are some exceptions depending on race)

You should really learn about how the game works before you cry for a nerf, or post your misguided opinions on how to balance the game.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Lee80alabama wrote...

If all the classes got weapon damage bonus, there would be no point to having different classes. Adepts are just as powerful, or more so if working in teams than an infiltrator. Engineers are great at what they do, and almost work in a way that's not comparable to the other classes. All the classes are unique for their own reasons.

Good players can top the score board with either of the classes(not that the score actually means anything). The balance thing is just not as big of an issue as people want it to be.

What is unique about Sentinels?  What is the one thing they do better than anyone else?  How about soldiers?

And what do Engineers have that approaches the usefulness of the TC damage mod.

All classes should have their unique strengths.  I would argue that all should contribute in different, but equally effective ways.  Right now, this simply isn't the case.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

Sentinels are not combat experts.

Then what are they?  What's the point of using them?  To play as a weak solider/biotic hybrid?  No thanks.

Sentinels are Tech and Biotic.

Vanguards, Soldiers, and Infiltrators are the only combat experts in the game, therefore they are the only classes that should realistically get weapon damage bonuses in their respective class powers. (obviously there are some exceptions depending on race)

You should really learn about how the game works before you cry for a nerf, or post your misguided opinions on how to balance the game.

And you need to learn how to read before responding to posts.  There's no cry for a nerf here, buddy.  Take your nonsense elsewhere.

This is the Mass Effect 3 description of Sentinels:

"Sentinels are unique, bringing both tech and biotic abilities to the
battlefield. In addition to complete weapons training, Sentinels are
equipped with an advanced shield that makes taking cover much less
necessary and rushing their enemies much more productive. This armor
system can also be detonated to blast nearby enemies.
"

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 13 juin 2012 - 03:03 .

[Ashen One]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Elite3141 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

Sentinels are not combat experts.

In Mass Effect 3 they are, sadly.  Well, sort of.  They're paired with Soldiers in multiplayer (Vorcha and possibly Batarian Sentinels even get combat powers) and get the same weight capacity bonus as Vanguards and Infiltrators in singleplayer.

Regardless, multiplayer IS combat.  To say that somebody isn't a combat specialist...then what IS their specialty?  They really don't seem to have one.  There isn't really a reason to play as one.

You don't get it.

In Mass Effect, there are 3 specializations: Combat, Tech, Biotic

Adept: Biotic
Soldier: Combat
Engineer: Tech
Infiltrator: Tech and Combat
Sentinel: Tech and Biotic
Vanguard: Biotic and Combat

And to the guy saying Vorcha and Batarians get combat powers... lol.

Submission Net is Tech, Shockwave is Biotic.

Flamer is Tech, Cluster Grenade is Biotic. It's odd that the Vorcha Soldier in particular would have a Tech power, but that falls under "exceptions to specialization proficiencies depending on race" as I mentioned in another post. In general, you won't see that.

Sentinels don't need weapon damage boosts. If you want a weapon damage bonus, play a weapon class. The point of playing a Sentinels is acess to both Tech and Biotic powers, not to kill things quickly with weapons. It's always been that way, and there is no reason to change it now.

If anything, Vanguards should get a larger bonus from power/weapon synergy in the Biotic Charge tree, and Soldiers should get more weapon damage from Adrenaline Rush.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 13 juin 2012 - 03:09 .

[Frost Spectre]

I would suggest nerf on Tact Cloak, not in damage sense tho:

Firing weapon or using a power will decloak you without any delay.
Right now, Tact Cloak has the delay that allows power use and shooting weapon with the damage bonuses for both.

That's why there's the evolution known as "Bonus Power" in Tactical Cloak.

Shooting before power use, perhaps worked into "Bonus Power" evolution...

-----

class based advantages! Like:

Soldier: Faster movement speed on package retrieval.

Engineers: Faster hacks, enable and disable objectives

Biotics: ???

Rest Sentinel, Vanguard and Infiltrator would be combination of 2, but weaker bonuses. or no bonuses at all...

Modifié par Frost Spectre, 13 juin 2012 - 03:08 .

[Lee80]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Lee80alabama wrote...

If all the classes got weapon damage bonus, there would be no point to having different classes. Adepts are just as powerful, or more so if working in teams than an infiltrator. Engineers are great at what they do, and almost work in a way that's not comparable to the other classes. All the classes are unique for their own reasons.

Good players can top the score board with either of the classes(not that the score actually means anything). The balance thing is just not as big of an issue as people want it to be.

What is unique about Sentinels?  What is the one thing they do better than anyone else?  How about soldiers?

And what do Engineers have that approaches the usefulness of the TC damage mod.

All classes should have their unique strengths.  I would argue that all should contribute in different, but equally effective ways.  Right now, this simply isn't the case.

Soldiers like infiltrators get a major boost to weapon damage.  Is it the same, no.  Is it slightly worse, probably.  Though I dare say the difference is not that much, and they have unique traits that the other classes don't such as adrenilne rush, marksman etc.  

Sentinels are a mix of Adepts and engineers.  They have more flexibility then any of the other classes.  They can help with biotic combos or Tech bursts.  They are really awesome.  Add to that the vorcha can do all that and they get the damage boost that the soliders normally do.    (mind you he has to rely on grenades for the biotic side, so that does hurt him on that one area)


Let me know if I missed anything. :happy:

[Arppis]

Atleast Vanguards are fine damagewise, imo.

But Soldiers could use some passive buffs. They should deal superior weapon damage.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Elite3141 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

Sentinels are not combat experts.

In Mass Effect 3 they are, sadly.  Well, sort of.  They're paired with Soldiers in multiplayer (Vorcha and possibly Batarian Sentinels even get combat powers) and get the same weight capacity bonus as Vanguards and Infiltrators in singleplayer.

Regardless, multiplayer IS combat.  To say that somebody isn't a combat specialist...then what IS their specialty?  They really don't seem to have one.  There isn't really a reason to play as one.

You don't get it.

In Mass Effect, there are 3 specializations: Combat, Tech, Biotic

Adept: Biotic
Soldier: Combat
Engineer: Tech
Infiltrator: Tech and Combat
Sentinel: Tech and Biotic
Vanguard: Biotic and Combat

And to the guy saying Vorcha and Batarians get combat powers... lol.

Submission Net is Tech, Shockwave is Biotic.

Flamer is Tech, Cluster Grenade is Biotic. It's odd that the Vorcha Soldier in particular would have a Tech power, but that falls under "exceptions to specialization proficiencies depending on race" as I mentioned in another post. In general, you won't see that.

Sentinels don't need weapon damage boosts. If you want a weapon damage bonus, play a weapon class.

You aren't even responding to the point of the thread.  You are choosing to pick at an example, over something that has very little to do with the intended discussion.

Okay fine, Sentinels shouldn't get a damage bonus.  Well, they need SOMETHING.  What do Sentinels have right now in ME3 multiplayer that is on par with the Infiltrator's TC damage buff?  Was does ANY class have that's on par with this?

[neteng101]

I would like to see Adrenaline Rush and Marksman be turned into a tech armor/barrier/hunter mode full time type of power. Sentinels get powers and tech armor (and the new tech armor has been shown to be effective as a walking bomb, but people just don't use it that way very much). AR and Marksman just doesn't play well with other powers. Sentinels are also pretty tanky but Soldiers don't have that much hardening (even the Krogan, you're better off with the Kroguard for tanking).

Adepts were fine, but now they've made the enemies dodge Warp/Throw so easily, that adepts need the old Warp/Throw effectiveness back ie. less dodging. A team of biotics can still rock things, but 1 biotic is pretty weakish unless you're the Grenadier Drell. And he's squishy.

[Ashen One]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Elite3141 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

Sentinels are not combat experts.

In Mass Effect 3 they are, sadly.  Well, sort of.  They're paired with Soldiers in multiplayer (Vorcha and possibly Batarian Sentinels even get combat powers) and get the same weight capacity bonus as Vanguards and Infiltrators in singleplayer.

Regardless, multiplayer IS combat.  To say that somebody isn't a combat specialist...then what IS their specialty?  They really don't seem to have one.  There isn't really a reason to play as one.

You don't get it.

In Mass Effect, there are 3 specializations: Combat, Tech, Biotic

Adept: Biotic
Soldier: Combat
Engineer: Tech
Infiltrator: Tech and Combat
Sentinel: Tech and Biotic
Vanguard: Biotic and Combat

And to the guy saying Vorcha and Batarians get combat powers... lol.

Submission Net is Tech, Shockwave is Biotic.

Flamer is Tech, Cluster Grenade is Biotic. It's odd that the Vorcha Soldier in particular would have a Tech power, but that falls under "exceptions to specialization proficiencies depending on race" as I mentioned in another post. In general, you won't see that.

Sentinels don't need weapon damage boosts. If you want a weapon damage bonus, play a weapon class.

You aren't even responding to the point of the thread.  You are choosing to pick at an example, over something that has very little to do with the intended discussion.

Okay fine, Sentinels shouldn't get a damage bonus.  Well, they need SOMETHING.  What do Sentinels have right now in ME3 multiplayer that is on par with the Infiltrator's TC damage buff?  Was does ANY class have that's on par with this?

Access to both Tech and Biotic powers, and much more durability.

For example, a Turian Sentinel can set up both biotic detonations, and tech bursts. Which Infiltrator can do that?

I wouldn't be opposed to Sentinels getting a larger power damage bonus from their class ability (Tech Armor) but to suggest a weapon damage bonus on a non-weapons class is just.... no.

[Kronner]

No, they do not.
The grenade classes are now really, really powerful thanks to new gear.
Casters (Adepts, Engineers) have far better CC powers, so extra weapon damage is unwarranted.
Soldiers and Sentinels are just fine.
Vanguards are way too powerful already.

They should just lower the Cloak damage slightly to shut up the nerf crybabies and be done with it.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

neteng101 wrote...

I would like to see Adrenaline Rush and Marksman be turned into a tech armor/barrier/hunter mode full time type of power. Sentinels get powers and tech armor (and the new tech armor has been shown to be effective as a walking bomb, but people just don't use it that way very much). AR and Marksman just doesn't play well with other powers. Sentinels are also pretty tanky but Soldiers don't have that much hardening (even the Krogan, you're better off with the Kroguard for tanking).

Adepts were fine, but now they've made the enemies dodge Warp/Throw so easily, that adepts need the old Warp/Throw effectiveness back ie. less dodging. A team of biotics can still rock things, but 1 biotic is pretty weakish unless you're the Grenadier Drell. And he's squishy.

I agree.  The point is, the other classes have some sort of built-in limitation to the effectiveness of their class powers.  Infil with TC has no limitation at all.  There is no downside to using it.

[LadyAlekto]

Erm, bullsh*t?

Infiltrators are fine at what they are doing, so are other classes, in capable hands it is irrelevant what a class is, they will rock hard

Tc's damage is a small 1.5 seconds, thats just barely enough for a few shots with every weapon

A soldier delivers equal output just longer

i usually dont like this phrase but i have to

LEARN 2 PLAY!

*edit*

If you want to see a boost to sentinels, i'd rather see that the techarmor can always be detonated and that the cooldown of it is applied when activating the armor

Modifié par ShadedPhoenix, 13 juin 2012 - 03:23 .

[Kronner]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
I agree.  The point is, the other classes have some sort of built-in limitation to the effectiveness of their class powers.  Infil with TC has no limitation at all.  There is no downside to using it.

Of course there is a downside. You are not regenerating while you are Cloaked. Also, enemies do see through Cloak if they get too close. It is not a magical button that turns you into a God. Adrenaline Rush gives a similar damage bonus while actually repelnishing part of your shields every time you cast it thus increasing your durability significantly (due to the shieldgate mechanic).

Cloak is still probably the best overall power in the game so you do not need to make up **** to make it look good. You should just learn to play other classes, IMHO.

Modifié par Kronner, 13 juin 2012 - 03:23 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Kronner wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
I agree.  The point is, the other classes have some sort of built-in limitation to the effectiveness of their class powers.  Infil with TC has no limitation at all.  There is no downside to using it.

Of course there is a downside. You are not regenerating while you are Cloaked. Also, enemies do see through Cloak if they get too close. It is not a magical button that turns you into a God. Adrenaline Rush gives a similar damage bonus while actually repelnishing part of your shields every time you cast it thus increasing your durability significantly (due to the shieldgate mechanic).

Cloak is still probably the best overall power in the game so you do not need to make up **** to make it look good. You should just learn to play other classes, IMHO.

You do realize that only the Human Soldier has Adrenaline Rush, right?  You can stop trying to pass that off as something every soldier has.

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

Erm, bullsh*t?

Infiltrators
are fine at what they are doing, so are other classes, in capable hands
it is irrelevant what a class is, they will rock hard

Tc's damage is a small 1.5 seconds, thats just barely enough for a few shots with every weapon

A soldier delivers equal output just longer

i usually dont like this phrase but i have to

LEARN 2 PLAY!

*edit*

If
you want to see a boost to sentinels, i'd rather see that the techarmor
can always be detonated and that the cooldown of it is applied when
activating the armor

I couldn't have asked for a sillier reply.  EVERY character deals equal damage with ANY weapon over a long enough period of time.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 13 juin 2012 - 03:29 .

[Pitznik]

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Elite3141 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.  As it stands, certain classes are under-utilized because they're simply outclassed.

The bottom line is - other classes need a damage boost.

Sentinels are not combat experts.

In Mass Effect 3 they are, sadly.  Well, sort of.  They're paired with Soldiers in multiplayer (Vorcha and possibly Batarian Sentinels even get combat powers) and get the same weight capacity bonus as Vanguards and Infiltrators in singleplayer.

Regardless, multiplayer IS combat.  To say that somebody isn't a combat specialist...then what IS their specialty?  They really don't seem to have one.  There isn't really a reason to play as one.

You don't get it.

In Mass Effect, there are 3 specializations: Combat, Tech, Biotic

Adept: Biotic
Soldier: Combat
Engineer: Tech
Infiltrator: Tech and Combat
Sentinel: Tech and Biotic
Vanguard: Biotic and Combat

And to the guy saying Vorcha and Batarians get combat powers... lol.

Submission Net is Tech, Shockwave is Biotic.

Flamer is Tech, Cluster Grenade is Biotic. It's odd that the Vorcha Soldier in particular would have a Tech power, but that falls under "exceptions to specialization proficiencies depending on race" as I mentioned in another post. In general, you won't see that.

Sentinels don't need weapon damage boosts. If you want a weapon damage bonus, play a weapon class. The point of playing a Sentinels is acess to both Tech and Biotic powers, not to kill things quickly with weapons. It's always been that way, and there is no reason to change it now.

If anything, Vanguards should get a larger bonus from power/weapon synergy in the Biotic Charge tree, and Soldiers should get more weapon damage from Adrenaline Rush.

What about Blade Armor then? If it is Combat, it makes Batarian Sentinel Tech/Biotic/Combat hybrid, and if it is Tech, it makes Batarian Soldier Tech/Combat hybrid. Vanguards get access to Combat powers (Krogan), but Asari Vanguard has only biotics - your cathegories simply do not make much sense. Another thing - being in Combat cathegory doesn't mean you can't have weapon-related powers, just means that you can have Combat powers. Combat powers aren't strictly weapon related - prox mine, carnage. Krogan Soldier while being a weapon class both in your cathegories and in common sense, doesn't have ANY weapon-related power.

Also, the point of Sentinels is to kill stuff with combination of tech powers, biotic powers and weapons, in some cases with much bigger emphasis on weapons - ever played Krogan Sentinel - its one of the least affected by heavy weapon loadout class in the game.

Every class is a weapon class. Every class is a power class.

[Dilandau3000]

Although I'd be shooting myself in the foot with this, I think the best way to limit the usefulness of TC would be to make so that if a power is used, you don't also get weapon damage bonus (regardless of how fast you shoot), and it should get full cooldown if a power is used.

My Female Quarian Infiltrator is carrying a Black Widow (one of the heaviest weapons in the game) and a secondary weapon. If I use sabotage by itself, I get some pretty slow cooldown, which is to be expected. But if I just cloak and then use sabotage, I get a damage bonus and faster cooldown? That's kind of ridiculous, really.

Right now the only drawback to cloak is that it prevents regeneration while active. And that the visual effect glitches so often that half the time I can't tell if I'm cloaked or not, but that's another story.

[LadyAlekto]

@Cmdrscrubidlyn00by

I like how you do not understand what i posted.

[Immortal Strife]

Kronner wrote...

No, they do not.
The grenade classes are now really, really powerful thanks to new gear.
Casters (Adepts, Engineers) have far better CC powers, so extra weapon damage is unwarranted.
Soldiers and Sentinels are just fine.
Vanguards are way too powerful already.

They should just lower the Cloak damage slightly to shut up the nerf crybabies and be done with it.

Agreed. It's clear that these threads are going to continue on an on until a change is made to TC.