196 réponses à ce sujet

[OniGanon]

Infiltrators are the rogues. They have reduced aggro and do large amounts of damage to single targets.

Vanguards are scrappers. They charge into the fray and put themselves at incredible risk, but in return they have amazing potential for destruction.

Adepts and Engineers are casters. They support the team with damaging powers, aoe biotic/tech explosions, crowd control, decoys, wallhacks, heals, protective bubbles and so on.

By rights the Soldier should be a weapons/dps tank, and the Sentinel should be a caster/support tank. And on lower difficulties, they are. Unfortunately due to the ridiculous damage of Gold level enemies, their increased survivability only amounts to an additional second or two under fire. You can't really fix that either because if a Krogan Sentinel got any tougher, nothing on Bronze could ever kill them.

Maybe Soldiers could get increased threat generation or a free taunt skill or something.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

@Cmdrscrubidlyn00by

I like how you do not understand what i posted.

I understand every word and nuance of what you posted.  It's just that what you wrote is so absurd, I don't even know how to respond.

[darkblade]

What is unique about Sentinels?

you wan't one thing or a list?

And what do Engineers have that approaches the usefulness of the TC damage mod.

Shield stripping and aggro decoys.

Right now, this simply isn't the case.

It's as close as it's going to get. some classes will just be better at stuff than other classes. No way around it.

The entire point of the infiltrator class is to kill heavy stuff fast. their damage bonuses are irrelevant in the face of normal mobs because the all die in about the same amount of time from any class lvl 20 with decent gear.

[Ashen One]

Pitznik wrote...

What about Blade Armor then? If it is Combat, it makes Batarian Sentinel Tech/Biotic/Combat hybrid, and if it is Tech, it makes Batarian Soldier Tech/Combat hybrid. Vanguards get access to Combat powers (Krogan), but Asari Vanguard has only biotics - your cathegories simply do not make much sense.

Maybe you should go have another look at my post where I clearly state that there are some exceptions depending on race, but the categories are there as a general statement. It makes sense to me, and should to anyone else who has played through ME 1 and 2 as every class.

Pitznik wrote...
Another thing - being in Combat cathegory doesn't mean you can't have weapon-related powers, just means that you can have Combat powers. Combat powers aren't strictly weapon related - prox mine, carnage. Krogan Soldier while being a weapon class both in your cathegories and in common sense, doesn't have ANY weapon-related power.

My point wasn't that combat classes should always get weapon related powers, even though in reality I think they should. My point was that non-weapon classes should not get weapon damage bonuses from their class powers, and certainly should not get weapon damage bonuses equivalent to the Soldier and Infiltrator classes.

Pitznik wrote...
Also, the point of Sentinels is to kill stuff with combination of tech powers, biotic powers and weapons, in some cases with much bigger emphasis on weapons - ever played Krogan Sentinel - its one of the least affected by heavy weapon loadout class in the game.

Krogan Sentinel is somewhat of an exception, but as for "least affected by heavy weapon loadouts" that really depends on how you spec him. If you outright ignore Incinerate, and don't care about using Tech Armor for anything else other than damage reduction, then sure.

Pitznik wrote...

Every class is a weapon class. Every class is a power class.

Lol, not really.

Making a weapon focused Asari Adept with a Widow is possible in ME 3, but that doesn't make it intelligent.

Focusing on Power Damage on a Turian Soldier to buff Proximity Mine, and Concussive Shot may also be possible through class passives, but it's still just as stupid.

[LadyAlekto]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

@Cmdrscrubidlyn00by

I like how you do not understand what i posted.

I understand every word and nuance of what you posted.  It's just that what you wrote is so absurd, I don't even know how to respond.

No you did not

A Hsoldier for example is a brute, the warrior, deals massive damage over time while able to take as they give, but they have no real finesse

A turian marksman can dish out one devastating and accurate salvo

A infiltrator deals one quick and lethal strike at a specific target, theyre the assasins

Adepts and engineers are caster, they debiltate the enemy and either utterly destroy them or make them weak enough that a evil stare from any other temmember makes short work of them

Sentinels are paladins, they are there, watching everyones ass, capable of soaking some damage and can debilitate the enemys

Oniganons post basically hits the nail on the head

In other words

Learn to play

[CmnDwnWrkn]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

@Cmdrscrubidlyn00by

I like how you do not understand what i posted.

I understand every word and nuance of what you posted.  It's just that what you wrote is so absurd, I don't even know how to respond.

No you did not

A Hsoldier for example is a brute, the warrior, deals massive damage over time while able to take as they give, but they have no real finesse

A turian marksman can dish out one devastating and accurate salvo

A infiltrator deals one quick and lethal strike at a specific target, theyre the assasins

Adepts and engineers are caster, they debiltate the enemy and either utterly destroy them or make them weak enough that a evil stare from any other temmember makes short work of them

Sentinels are paladins, they are there, watching everyones ass, capable of soaking some damage and can debilitate the enemys

Oniganons post basically hits the nail on the head

In other words

Learn to play

I know how to play.  You need to learn how to compare.  Every class does have a specialty.  Nobody is disagreeing with that.  It's just that these specialties vary in their overall utility by a rather wide margin.

"A infiltrator deals one quick and lethal strike at a specific target, theyre the assasins"  - Yeah okay, but they have this ability AND invisibility.  I could see your point if it was just one thing.

[Fliprot]

I cant think of any other reason for nerfing TC or infiltrators than being butthurt over infiltrators topping the scoreboard too much. (Scoreboard means nothing)

So what if they actually have an advantage? Are you playing for fun or what?
Why do people act like a game is real life. Its even a Coop game in this case.. Even worse.

Why cant you choose to play as one of the "weaker" classes?
Is it humiliating? Does it affect people emotionally?
I mostly close my eyes, and pick a random character and roll with it on U/U/U.
Just have fun.

"OP" Infiltrators are hurting nothing but people's egos.

[Ashen One]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

"A infiltrator deals one quick and lethal strike at a specific target, theyre the assasins"  - Yeah okay, but they have this ability AND invisibility.  I could see your point if it was just one thing.

Human Soldier can wipe out entire spawns with Adrenaline Rush instant reload, and the Krysae/Scorpion while also getting temporary damage reduction.

Nerf them, they're OP

[VVereVVulf]

People who cry for infiltrator nerfs are mad because they can't aim properly.

Anything I can do on my infiltrators I can do on most other classes.
There's not much of a difference.

Just gimme a claymore and I'll wreak havoc on gold.

[Pitznik]

@ Ashen Earth

ME1 and ME2 were different from ME3, and especially ME3 multiplayer. If there are so many exceptions, that means that division on weapon classes/nonweapon classes is just in your head, leftover from ME1/ME2, but no longer real in ME3. Biotic Charge, being clearly a biotic power (it even has biotic in its name!) gives weapon synergy, and the ME3 world didn't collapse.

There is absolutely no reason to not give Sentinels some weapon related goodness. Is there a reason to do that? I don't really know, I don't feel it is needed. I personally do not feel that Sentinels are gimped.

Power-based Batarian Soldier or Krogan Soldier aren't exactly bad, btw. Also, the only Sentinel which can absolutely ignore weapons and still be fine is probably Human Sentinel, maybe Turian also, others really rely on weapons and their mix of Biotic/Tech can't replace them.

Modifié par Pitznik, 13 juin 2012 - 03:57 .

[capn233]

TC only needs a small tweak if anything.

Then the weapon balance needs to be more coherent.  That's about it.

[LadyAlekto]

No they are rogues, assasins, they strike from one ambush at a specific moment of their choosing, theyr damage bonus is short and in overall is equal to marksmen and adrenaline rush

You do not comprehend the speciality, what they are or what they are meant to

The damage bonus is 1.5 seconds, adrenaline rush is more then 4 times! as much

Learn to play

[ETDM]

Most nerfers sound like CoD kids who never heard of support roles...

[darkblade]

What about Blade Armor then? If it is Combat, it makes Batarian Sentinel Tech/Biotic/Combat hybrid, and if it is Tech, it makes Batarian Soldier Tech/Combat hybrid. Vanguards get access to Combat powers (Krogan), but Asari Vanguard has only biotics - your cathegories simply do not make much sense. Another thing - being in Combat cathegory doesn't mean you can't have weapon-related powers, just means that you can have Combat powers. Combat powers aren't strictly weapon related - prox mine, carnage. Krogan Soldier while being a weapon class both in your cathegories and in common sense, doesn't have ANY weapon-related power.

Dafuq is this im reading?

Carnage is a weapon power...that was established in ME1, and proximity mine is tech but so what the only not tech class with it is turian soldier and he only has it because garrus has it. grenades are considered grenades despite what effects they cause, blade armor is racial, just like bloodlust, it doesnt have a category.

In SP vanguard shepard has no combat powers in SP. but now with weight capacity in the mix one of its definite features is high with capacity then a biotic class. you cant say that a class doesnt have X type power thus shouldnt be in Y class.

Quite acting like ME3 MP is the only canon. The best example of each class is shepard.

[MetalHeadDev]

I think what other classes need is a damage resistance bonus - because this game is bias towards single shot snipers - you pop out of cover for a mere heartbeat, fire your widow, death or heavy damage, and instantly you're in cover again. Other weapons require you to stay out of cover and spray ammo while soaking up damage. classes need a DR bonus to compensate.

[landylan]

WHY ARE SENTINELS COMBAT classES NOW? shouldnt they be power spammers with the best of both worlds. i would really like more sentinels like the turian sentinel. in me1 i think they were the only class that couldnt even get weapons training in pistols....maybe certain sentinels need the buff, but i just dont like the idea of them a whole lot. the vanguards should get huge damage bonuses too. i think they should either get a big damage bonus right out of their charge or damage bonuses should stack as they charge more

[IAMREALITY]

Tactical Cloak is fine and nerfing it would be idiotic. And no, other classes don't need to be buffed. Thinking all has to be equal is beyond short sighted. Get over yourself.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

No they are rogues, assasins, they strike from one ambush at a specific moment of their choosing, theyr damage bonus is short and in overall is equal to marksmen and adrenaline rush

You do not comprehend the speciality, what they are or what they are meant to

The damage bonus is 1.5 seconds, adrenaline rush is more then 4 times! as much

Learn to play

Learn to understand the difference between a class and character within a class.  Soldier is a class.  Human soldier is a subset of the Soldier class.  We're talking about classes here.  Every infiltrator has TC.  Not every soldier has AR.  Learn the difference.  Go back to school or something.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

IAMREALITY wrote...

Tactical Cloak is fine and nerfing it would be idiotic. And no, other classes don't need to be buffed. Thinking all has to be equal is beyond short sighted. Get over yourself.

No, coming to the conclusion that this thread is about nerfing TC would be idiotic, given the title, the original post, and the discussion.

You are way too paranoid and sensitive.  Automatically assuming everyone is out to weaken your favorite power.

[LadyAlekto]

I just stop here, you seem to incapable of understanding

The soldiers have different class powers and each of them if played right is a monster on their own

[CmnDwnWrkn]

MetalHeadDev wrote...

I think what other classes need is a damage resistance bonus - because this game is bias towards single shot snipers - you pop out of cover for a mere heartbeat, fire your widow, death or heavy damage, and instantly you're in cover again. Other weapons require you to stay out of cover and spray ammo while soaking up damage. classes need a DR bonus to compensate.

This would be another possible way of addressing the disparity.  I like this idea.

[Pitznik]

darkblade wrote...

What about Blade Armor then? If it is Combat, it makes Batarian Sentinel Tech/Biotic/Combat hybrid, and if it is Tech, it makes Batarian Soldier Tech/Combat hybrid. Vanguards get access to Combat powers (Krogan), but Asari Vanguard has only biotics - your cathegories simply do not make much sense. Another thing - being in Combat cathegory doesn't mean you can't have weapon-related powers, just means that you can have Combat powers. Combat powers aren't strictly weapon related - prox mine, carnage. Krogan Soldier while being a weapon class both in your cathegories and in common sense, doesn't have ANY weapon-related power.

Dafuq is this im reading?

Carnage is a weapon power...that was established in ME1, and proximity mine is tech but so what the only not tech class with it is turian soldier and he only has it because garrus has it. grenades are considered grenades despite what effects they cause, blade armor is racial, just like bloodlust, it doesnt have a category.

In SP vanguard shepard has no combat powers in SP. but now with weight capacity in the mix one of its definite features is high with capacity then a biotic class. you cant say that a class doesnt have X type power thus shouldnt be in Y class.

Quite acting like ME3 MP is the only canon. The best example of each class is shepard.

Carnage is a Combat power, not weapon power. In game mechanics (unlike ME1) it has absolutely nothing to do with weapons. Tactical Cloak, Adrenaline Rush - powers that are working with weapons.

Shepard can have biotic powers even as an Infiltrator or Engineer, and doesn't suddenly become Sentinel because of that.

Some classes are defined in a very clear way (Infiltrator, Vanguard), but some aren't really. With so many exceptions, lack of what makes a class distinct there is absolutely no ground for saying "Sentinel can't have weapon related power because he is Sentinel".

[Kick In The Door]

The only way to solve the infiltrator problem is to remove cloak from the game. Also take away GI's Hunter mode and Proximity bombs but make the half shield handicap for HM baseline for the class. I'd also op for removing sniper rifles or nerfing them to be as powerful as a sniping Predator V.

Oh! And don't EVEN get me started on what needs to be done about those pesky biotics!

[Ashen One]

Pitznik wrote...

Biotic Charge, being clearly a biotic power (it even has biotic in its name!) gives weapon synergy, and the ME3 world didn't collapse.

.... The point that I'm trying to make is that it actually makes sense to give a weapon damage bonus with a Vanguard power because Vanguards are also combat specialists. You know, for the exact same reason the KV has Carnage?

Pitznik wrote...

There is absolutely no reason to not give Sentinels some weapon related goodness. Is there a reason to do that?

No there is not in general. But like I said, racial traits are the exception. Turians get a passive that increases weapon stability, regardless of the fact that Sentinels are not combat experts.