196 réponses à ce sujet

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Soldiers need major buffs to their passives. It's ridiculous that they are equal in weapon damage, health, and shields, to everyone else.

As for people saying infiltrators aren't inherently OP well maybe but this game is very biased in favor of snipers and other single shot weapons. It makes most other weapons and play styles useless.

Exactly.  I'm not sure why everyone is getting so defensive, as if they're personally being attacked.  The suggestion is to boost the weaker classes and characters so that their specific utility approaches that of the infiltrator.  Not necessarily with direct damage, but strengthing whatever their inherent powers are.  So that people would actually choose to play Quarian Female Engineer or Drell Vanguard, for example.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Ashen Earth wrote...

DNC Protoman wrote...


once more, no one but you said a word about weapon damage bonus for caster classes

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

2) Buff Other classes - This is perhaps the more favorable option, as it would not weaken the Infiltrator.  It would simply improve weaker classes to be somewhat closer to the Infiltrator in terms of damage they can inflict.  There is no reason why Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.

Learn to read, troll.

The discussion started off about damage, but it has clearly moved beyond that.  Yet you stay stuck on one detail.  Let it go.

[Gust4v]

Terrible idea. Everyone has a role.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

As for people saying infiltrators aren't inherently OP well maybe but this game is very biased in favor of snipers and other single shot weapons. It makes most other weapons and play styles useless.

The shield gate begs to differ. You must be playing Bronze.

LOLWUT?

Not only are you dumb but you're also condescending. Claymore, Widow, Black Widow, Valiant, Carnifex, Palladin, GPS, are all widely considered the best weapons in the game. Please don't make stupid statements in the future.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 13 juin 2012 - 04:36 .

[Pitznik]

Ashen Earth wrote...

DNC Protoman wrote...

whats hard not to laugh at is your post and incomprehension of the written word.  The OP never said he wanted classes to be the SAME, he wants the classes to excel in their specialties just as well as infiltrators do.

Except that Sentinels do not specialize with weapons, and therefore should not get bonuses with specific weapons as Infiltrators do with sniper rifles.

Now if they got a higher power damage boost from having Tech Armor active, that would be another story.

Even ME1 Sentinels had heavy pistol bonus increasing with thei class ability. Every rule you try to come up with is so full of exceptions it's not a rule anymore. Unless you would be fine with giving some Sentinels weapon based abilities and calling it an exception? Some already have passive weight reduction for certain weapon classes, that clearly suggests some sort of specialization.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

paincanbefun wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Since the main objective of this game is to kill enemies, there is simply no power that is more powerful than a gigantic damage bonus. 

@op: this is what i'm reffering to.  it sounds like you want equal killing potential.

utility (like krogan damage resistance, ect) has many forms.  your response to me sounds like you aknowledge utility as being about more than damage, but i still don't see anything in the argument that isn't apples and oranges.

if your point is that infiltrators are so good at what they do (apples) that you want more of what other classes do (oranges), then i just happen to disagree with you.  i'm getting plenty of oranges with my sentinels and engineers and whatever.

it really does look, though, as though your intent is for other classes to get a damage boost, since you say that "nothing is more powerful than that", no ammount of oranges are as good as the apples.

I still think other classes should get damage bonuses with certain types of weapons.  But yes, I've acknowledged that improvements could be made in other areas as well.  That is, it doesn't need to be damage only. 

[DNC Protoman]

Ashen Earth wrote...

DNC Protoman wrote...


once more, no one but you said a word about weapon damage bonus for caster classes

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

2) Buff Other classes - This is perhaps the more favorable option, as it would not weaken the Infiltrator.  It would simply improve weaker classes to be somewhat closer to the Infiltrator in terms of damage they can inflict.  There is no reason why Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.

Learn to read, troll.

Soldiers certainly should get a passive bonus to ALL weps.  they should outdamage infiltrators with everything besisdes snipers.

The OP has already stated that Sentinels were a poor example to be used in that statement, adding they should be given a boost to tech or bio abilities instead.

Hanging on a mere typo is a defeated agrument, you are beaten.

Troll.

[taomang]

Orrrrr they shouldn't do anything to any class because the game was fine the first time it came out Then all of people who can't aim and shoot at the same time like that "other guy" in their team, came crying.

[Binary_Helix 1]

UKStory135 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Soldiers need major buffs to their passives. It's ridiculous that they are equal in weapon damage, health, and shields, to everyone else.

As for people saying infiltrators aren't inherently OP well maybe but this game is very biased in favor of snipers and other single shot weapons. It makes most other weapons and play styles useless.

Sniper Rifles are super effective against shield gate:whistle:

Yes they are. More so than rapid fire pea shooters that leave you exposed and do little to no damage.

Pew, pew, pew, reloads, pew, pew, pew, repeats process 1-10 times with phaeston against single enemy.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 13 juin 2012 - 04:40 .

[Ashen One]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

As for people saying infiltrators aren't inherently OP well maybe but this game is very biased in favor of snipers and other single shot weapons. It makes most other weapons and play styles useless.

The shield gate begs to differ. You must be playing Bronze.

LOLWUT?

Not only are you dumb but you're also condescending. Claymore, Widow, Black Widow, Valiant, Carnifex, Palladin, GPS, are all widely considered the best weapons in the game. Please don't make stupid statements in the future.

Of all the weapons you posted, the Widow and Claymore are the only single shot weapons, and oddly enough only half of those guns are sniper rifles. You aren't doing much to support your point about the game being biased towards single shot rifles like the Widow, Javelin and the Mantis.

If you think having to shoot a Centurion twice with a Javelin to kill it is "unbalanced" and the Javelin is so incredibly OP then I really don't know what to say.

[DNC Protoman]

Ignoring all the mindless nerfer trolling this thread brings up many good points.

I agree that each class could use a base passive added that will improve it in order to help them catch up with infiltrator.

As the OP has mentioned it wouldn't have to be a damage bonus at all.

Suggestions like these are what can help improve the game, diversify builds and maybe open up the door for a greater difficulty were we can achieve greater rewards.

[DNC Protoman]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

UKStory135 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Soldiers need major buffs to their passives. It's ridiculous that they are equal in weapon damage, health, and shields, to everyone else.

As for people saying infiltrators aren't inherently OP well maybe but this game is very biased in favor of snipers and other single shot weapons. It makes most other weapons and play styles useless.

Sniper Rifles are super effective against shield gate:whistle:

Yes they are. More so than rapid fire pea shooters that leave you exposed and do little to no damage.

Pew, pew, pew, reloads, pew, pew, pew, repeats process 1-10 times with phaeston against single enemy.

let the  nerfer trolls go Binary.  You are clearly correct - they are seeking to distract everyone from what could help the game evolve.

[Ashen One]

DNC Protoman wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

DNC Protoman wrote...


once more, no one but you said a word about weapon damage bonus for caster classes

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

2) Buff Other classes - This is perhaps the more favorable option, as it would not weaken the Infiltrator.  It would simply improve weaker classes to be somewhat closer to the Infiltrator in terms of damage they can inflict.  There is no reason why Soldiers and Sentinels should not get a big damage modifier for certain types of weapons.

Learn to read, troll.

Soldiers certainly should get a passive bonus to ALL weps.  they should outdamage infiltrators with everything besisdes snipers.

The OP has already stated that Sentinels were a poor example to be used in that statement, adding they should be given a boost to tech or bio abilities instead.

Hanging on a mere typo is a defeated agrument, you are beaten.

Troll.

I'm not opposed to increased weapon damage for Soldiers. If you actually read my posts, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that a few times.

If the OP thinks that power damage is more appropriate for a power class, then the OP should be changed to reflect that. It's not "hanging on to a mere typo", and my argument was certainly not defeated if the OP has now acknowledged that it makes more sense to give a power damage bonus to a power class as opposed to Infiltrator/Soldier type weapon damage bonuses to power classes.

[lpconfig]

The desired effect you are looking for is a reduction in effectiveness of TC. You can achieve this by buffing EVERY other aspect of the game by a certain amount, which is a **** ton of buffs. When making this many changes, the potential for making a huge blunder isnt just possible, its pretty much 100 % likely. The same effect is done more easily and a much lower margin for error, by simply tweaking the one factor that you perceive to be overpowered.

Personally, I think the classes are fine as is and do not need any manipulation.

[paincanbefun]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...


I still think other classes should get damage bonuses with certain types of weapons.  But yes, I've acknowledged that improvements could be made in other areas as well.  That is, it doesn't need to be damage only. 

fair enough.  i can respect your opinion although i still disagree with it.

however, the title of the article, which is still about a damage boost, and that silly little fellow who is behaving like your incredibly rude sidekick make it likely, in my opinion, that this will get more argument then actual conversation.

[Prince Bubblegeth]

Lessen the damage output of ALL infiltrators while they stay away from the heat of the battle and cloak and while the rest of the enemies give me all their love? No, thanks.

Even as an Inflitrator, I can't do my job properly (killing off baddies like ravagers and brutes and pyros and phantoms, etc before they reach my team) when my team keeps on dying (notably when they use the less privileged characters) and I have to run great distances to rescue them. If this remains AND the TC gets nerfed significantly, it won't really be nice for anyone.

All soldiers and some sentinels should just be made significantly less squishy (and at least give them a degree of stagger resistance too) and assault rifles should be given damage buffs. BTW, I've seen human soldiers rock the scoreboards with the proper use of adrenaline rush. Engineers are already good at what they do (except the FQE) but they surely could use more durable and more effective drones and turrets (though I already love the drones, they just cease to exist too quickly).

Adepts and Vanguards are already greatly reliable (if vanguards are hosts).

[Binary_Helix 1]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

As for people saying infiltrators aren't inherently OP well maybe but this game is very biased in favor of snipers and other single shot weapons. It makes most other weapons and play styles useless.

The shield gate begs to differ. You must be playing Bronze.

LOLWUT?

Not only are you dumb but you're also condescending. Claymore, Widow, Black Widow, Valiant, Carnifex, Palladin, GPS, are all widely considered the best weapons in the game. Please don't make stupid statements in the future.

Of all the weapons you posted, the Widow and Claymore are the only single shot weapons, and oddly enough only half of those guns are sniper rifles. You aren't doing much to support your point about the game being biased towards single shot rifles like the Widow, Javelin and the Mantis.

If you think having to shoot a Centurion twice with a Javelin to kill it is "unbalanced" and the Javelin is so incredibly OP then I really don't know what to say.

Can you believe the denial here?

Only half of the best guns in the game are snipers therefore the game isn't biased towards sniper rifles.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 13 juin 2012 - 04:47 .

[Ashen One]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

As for people saying infiltrators aren't inherently OP well maybe but this game is very biased in favor of snipers and other single shot weapons. It makes most other weapons and play styles useless.

The shield gate begs to differ. You must be playing Bronze.

LOLWUT?

Not only are you dumb but you're also condescending. Claymore, Widow, Black Widow, Valiant, Carnifex, Palladin, GPS, are all widely considered the best weapons in the game. Please don't make stupid statements in the future.

Of all the weapons you posted, the Widow and Claymore are the only single shot weapons, and oddly enough only half of those guns are sniper rifles. You aren't doing much to support your point about the game being biased towards single shot rifles like the Widow, Javelin and the Mantis.

If you think having to shoot a Centurion twice with a Javelin to kill it is "unbalanced" and the Javelin is so incredibly OP then I really don't know what to say.

Can you believe the denial here?

Only half of the best guns in the game are snipers therefore the game isn't biased towards sniper rifles.

>Implying the only good guns are the ones you listed

[DNC Protoman]

The nerfers will lie, cheat and steal to achieve thier means. The will deny the obvious facts while spouting non-sense that only leads to more nerfing. Let thier troll posts die.

[Mal3fact0r]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Soldiers need major buffs to their passives. It's ridiculous that they are equal in weapon damage, health, and shields, to everyone else.

As for people saying infiltrators aren't inherently OP well maybe but this game is very biased in favor of snipers and other single shot weapons. It makes most other weapons and play styles useless.

Single shot weapons favor burst damage, which for a pretty large amount of enemies is all you need to take them down. Rapid fire/multi-shot weapons lack burst but have sustained DPS, there are less enemies where DPS like this comes in useful, throw in staying out of cover on gold gets you dead real fast and you see the issue with sustainted DPS weapons. It's why we see many Claymore users, for example (Infils, Soldiers).

Perhaps added survivability when firing from cover would help rapid fire multi-shot weapons out.

[DNC Protoman]

back to the intended message of this thread I think the following passive boosts should be given

solider- Weapon Damage Boost

Adept- Biotic Damage Boost

Engineer- Tech damage boost

Sent- Shield boost

Infil- acc. Boost

Vanguard- Not sure really

[Bedlam74]

Sentinels are over rated. I didn't like them in ME1 or ME 2, and especially don't care for the class in ME 3. I think people want Sentinels to be like SP. Sentinel Shepard is a boss in SP for some people. When you can pick your squad mates and direct them, the Sentinel excels. But in MP where you can't control your squad mates' combat , I always feel stuck in the middle or indecisive about how to approach combat. The class is supposed to be versatile which does not equal being an expert.

If I want to debuff enemies, I should've chosen and Engineer. If I want to set up BE, I should've used and Adept, or for TE an Engineer. With a Sentinel, I can't ever seem to do both, especially since TA slows recharge.

I also think some players are just better than others, regardless of class. It is inevitable. I still used the Krysae on my SI after the nerfing, and still did the same amount of damage. I got kicked. So I switched back to my trusty BW and played a match in Silver, did just as well, if not better.

People can call for nerfing of TC but that wont change anything. It just means that Infiltrators would just need a shot or 2 more to take down bosses, and to be a bit more cautious.

A Sentinel is a jack of all trades and a master of none. Seems like some people want the Sentinel to be a master of all trades, which to me would seem to be OP.

[Demigod_3000]

We are proud to play exclusively as the Geth Infiltrator. 752 runtimes favor the following as our course of spoken action if TC is nerfed:

[dumael]

I say do both.

Appropriate buffs for underpowered characters. My preference/suggestion there would be for general buffs rather than things like +specific weapon damage.

Adjust TC in three specific ways: reduce the total damage bonus by 10 / 15%, remove the cooldown exploit (always take the highest cooldown for things like sabotage) and remove the usage scaled cooldown.

It seems incredibly strange that an entire class can virtually ignore the cooldown mechanics when other some classes have to make sacrifices to achieve the same effect.

Edit: underpowered classes -> underpowered characters (the AA hardly needs a buff).

Modifié par dumael, 13 juin 2012 - 05:22 .

[Ashen One]

dumael wrote...

It seems incredibly strange that an entire class can virtually ignore the cooldown mechanics when other some classes have to make sacrifices to achieve the same effect.

The cooldown mechaninc matters to infiltrators, even if it's less of a concern than with power classes. Have you tried running objectives with a 20+ second cooldown?

My Human Soldier has a 42% CD bonus, (which is less than most of the Infiltrators I run across in the majority of the games I play) but the recharge speed on Adrenaline Rush is only 3.5 seconds.

But you don't see me crying for a Human Soldier nerf.