196 réponses à ce sujet

[zeal.assassin]

DNC Protoman wrote...

back to the intended message of this thread I think the following passive boosts should be given

solider- Weapon Damage Boost

Adept- Biotic Damage Boost

Engineer- Tech damage boost

Sent- Shield boost

Infil- acc. Boost

Vanguard- Not sure really

Maybe an Shield/Barrier Boost for Vanguards?  Its really only thing I can think of that would benefit them.

[Kronner]

Ashen Earth wrote...

The cooldown mechaninc matters to infiltrators, even if it's less of a concern than with power classes. Have you tried running objectives with a 20+ second cooldown?

My Human Soldier has a 42% CD bonus, (which is less than most of the Infiltrators I run across in the majority of the games I play) but the recharge speed on Adrenaline Rush is only 3.5 seconds.

But you don't see me crying for a Human Soldier nerf.

Exactly. My Claymore Solider has Adrenaline Rush cooldown of 3.33s. Arush lasts almost 7 seconds and gives extra 70% weapon damage. Overall, I can dish out as much damage as Infiltrator.

Also, try running Infiltrator with a negative cooldown bonus. Your Cloak will never be on 3s cooldown no matter what.

[Ashen One]

zeal.assassin wrote...

DNC Protoman wrote...

back to the intended message of this thread I think the following passive boosts should be given

solider- Weapon Damage Boost

Adept- Biotic Damage Boost

Engineer- Tech damage boost

Sent- Shield boost

Infil- acc. Boost

Vanguard- Not sure really

Maybe an Shield/Barrier Boost for Vanguards?  Its really only thing I can think of that would benefit them.

Increased weapon or power damage from weapon/power synergy evolution in the Biotic charge tree.

or increased duration on the existing evolutions.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 13 juin 2012 - 05:34 .

[Malditor]

I will never understand why people think all classes should be close in damage output for weapons. Different classes have different roles/abilities.

[Tankcommander]

Arppis wrote...

Atleast Vanguards are fine damagewise, imo.

But Soldiers could use some passive buffs. They should deal superior weapon damage.

Yeah, this is the only buff I really see being necessary. Adepts/Vanguards are great with biotics, Engineers are great support, Soldiers (at least Vorcha and Batarian) and Infiltrators dish out the pain, and Sentinels are good at everything. Have something to match every situation. That being said they are my least favorite class

[Sabbatine]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Since the main objective of this game is to kill enemies...

Thank you for revealing your ignorance so early in your post.  I was worried I might have to read the whole thing, but you showed us very early on you have no idea what you're talking about and saved me a little time.

[zeal.assassin]

Bedlam74 wrote...

Sentinels are over rated. I didn't like
them in ME1 or ME 2, and especially don't care for the class in ME 3. I
think people want Sentinels to be like SP. Sentinel Shepard is a boss
in SP for some people. When you can pick your squad mates and direct
them, the Sentinel excels. But in MP where you can't control your squad
mates' combat , I always feel stuck in the middle or indecisive about
how to approach combat. The class is supposed to be versatile which does
not equal being an expert.

A
Sentinel is a jack of all trades and a master of none. Seems like some
people want the Sentinel to be a master of all trades, which to me would
seem to be OP.

I always felt that sentinels is nothing more than an Adept with Tech Armor.  Well  thats true for the Human Sentinel .  The only useful Sentinel is really just the Turian.  The Batarian Sentinel fall short in comparison to the Batarian Soldier. You can make an power damage Batarian Soldier that can outperform its Sentinel counterpart. Krogan Sentinel only benefit the melee damage bonus it gets from TA.  I don't know what to say for the Vorcha Sentinel.

[dumael]

Ashen Earth wrote...

The cooldown mechaninc matters to infiltrators, even if it's less of a concern than with power classes. Have you tried running objectives with a 20+ second cooldown?

Honestly? Once or twice. Getting a 10+ second cooldown requires taking the heaviest possible weapons, most of which are too quirky for my tastes.

Secondly, it's more around the mid-range of cooldown times and oddities like cloaking->sabotage cooldowns is the problem that I wanted to point out. The statement you quoted is me being imprecise.

Edit: urgh, imprecise introduced by headache.

If I skip objectives (at most, 3 times per game) then protect objective cappers instead and don't play cloaked rez pony I have minimum cloak cooldown provided I always terminate cloak early.

Modifié par dumael, 13 juin 2012 - 05:47 .

[Pitznik]

Malditor wrote...

I will never understand why people think all classes should be close in damage output for weapons. Different classes have different roles/abilities.

Roles? That's not an RPG, aside from maybe justicar or some engineers, everyone's job is killing stuff with powers and weapons. Those who can't do it with powers - Krogan Sentinel to not look far, should have some weapon bonuses to compensate.

[Pitznik]

Sabbatine wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Since the main objective of this game is to kill enemies...

Thank you for revealing your ignorance so early in your post.  I was worried I might have to read the whole thing, but you showed us very early on you have no idea what you're talking about and saved me a little time.

Out of 10 waves 7 are about killing enemies. Objective waves also can be about killing enemies, and even if they are not, you still need to, surprise, kill enemies. So, tes, the main objective of this game is to kill enemies.

[Ashen One]

Pitznik wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I will never understand why people think all classes should be close in damage output for weapons. Different classes have different roles/abilities.

Roles? That's not an RPG, aside from maybe justicar or some engineers, everyone's job is killing stuff with powers and weapons. Those who can't do it with powers - Krogan Sentinel to not look far, should have some weapon bonuses to compensate.

Krogan Sentinels can kill enemies with powers.

A single lift grenade can wipe out a room full of troopers if you spec towards power damage, take the power bonus evolution in TA and use power boosting gear.

It's even worse if you Incinerate someone first, because the following fire explosion will usually kill anything that had shields up to survive the lift grenade.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 13 juin 2012 - 05:56 .

[Pitznik]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I will never understand why people think all classes should be close in damage output for weapons. Different classes have different roles/abilities.

Roles? That's not an RPG, aside from maybe justicar or some engineers, everyone's job is killing stuff with powers and weapons. Those who can't do it with powers - Krogan Sentinel to not look far, should have some weapon bonuses to compensate.

Krogan Sentinels can kill enemies with powers.

A single lift grenade can wipe out a room full of troopers if you spec towards power damage, take the power bonus evolution in TA and use power boosting gear.

That is how I play. What I really meant is, that your main source of kills will be weapon - grenades are somewhat scarce, and unreliable if you happen to join a match with Drell Adept and Batarian Soldier and the map in question is Firebase White. My typical silver game, when I am the only grenade user is 25 biotic kill medal and silver shotgun medal, or gold if we play with 3 people or team is lazy. Krogan Sentinel isn't an Adept or Human Sentinel, every possible build will have to rely on weapons.

[GODzilla]

What about the other main objective of this game - stay alive. Well if the soldier has over 1200 shields, I think the infiltrator should get those, too. And more health. And better armor. And krogan close combat abilities. And drell mobility. And crowd control skills like the adept. And...

-.-

[DNC Protoman]

ignore the nerf trolls everyone..

[ElectroNeonPanda]

Ashen Earth wrote...

The cooldown mechaninc matters to infiltrators, even if it's less of a concern than with power classes. Have you tried running objectives with a 20+ second cooldown?

My Human Soldier has a 42% CD bonus, (which is less than most of the Infiltrators I run across in the majority of the games I play) but the recharge speed on Adrenaline Rush is only 3.5 seconds.

But you don't see me crying for a Human Soldier nerf.

Equally, my GI with no points in weight reduction and sporting a Krysae X has a 100% PR Bonus which equates to a 3.92 sec recharge on TC.  The same GI with a Javelin VII has a -20% PR Bonus and a 7.41 sec recharge on TC.

I'm interested under what conditions you're arriving at a 20+ sec cooldown unless you're inferring you carry a slow weapon and a secondary SMG for dropping shields.  In which case... well duh!

While it's true most classes can top the scoreboards in the hands of an exceptionally skilled player the fact remains that Infiltrators are not equal with other classes in terms of damage output.  In the hands of the previously mentioned player the gap will just be even more noticeable.  

It should be noted that not all classes share the same level of utility though.  I play SE and GI pretty much to the exclusion of everything else and I'm happy to deal less damage when I'm on the SE because Decoy is a huge benefit to a team, albeit only on certain maps and less effective against Reapers than Cerb or Geth.  There are classes (VSo/FQE)  that have pretty much zero utility currently, however, that fall well behind in the damage stakes and that should be reviewed.  

If all an Infiltrator could do is deal damage and be weak as wet paper then I don't believe people would have an issue.  The reality is they currently have unparalleled damage delivery coupled with exceptional utility and enhanced survivability.  I accept that if TC is down and you have aggro you'll most likely die in seconds but the fact remains as an Infiltrator you're doing something wrong if you're regularly finding yourself in the position where that happens.

[Ashen One]

Pitznik wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I will never understand why people think all classes should be close in damage output for weapons. Different classes have different roles/abilities.

Roles? That's not an RPG, aside from maybe justicar or some engineers, everyone's job is killing stuff with powers and weapons. Those who can't do it with powers - Krogan Sentinel to not look far, should have some weapon bonuses to compensate.

Krogan Sentinels can kill enemies with powers.

A single lift grenade can wipe out a room full of troopers if you spec towards power damage, take the power bonus evolution in TA and use power boosting gear.

That is how I play. What I really meant is, that your main source of kills will be weapon - grenades are somewhat scarce, and unreliable if you happen to join a match with Drell Adept and Batarian Soldier and the map in question is Firebase White. My typical silver game, when I am the only grenade user is 25 biotic kill medal and silver shotgun medal, or gold if we play with 3 people or team is lazy. Krogan Sentinel isn't an Adept or Human Sentinel, every possible build will have to rely on weapons.

And the Krogan Sentinel has a definite clear advantage over every other weapon reliant Sentinel, being able to carry heavier and better weapons because he has a higher encumbrance capacity.

A weapon damage buff is just overkill.

[Hook-n-Swoop]

Eveyr weapon can damage every mob in the game. Every tech ability can damage/set up TBs/detonate TBs against every mob in the game. Only selected biotic abilities work against every mob in the game, thus you 'waste' a lot of points when you need to switch to guns when your pull can't detonate reave on the Atlas.

It's a balance issue, but I don't see nerfing infiltrators is the most probable correct way.

[Ashen One]

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

The cooldown mechaninc matters to infiltrators, even if it's less of a concern than with power classes. Have you tried running objectives with a 20+ second cooldown?

My Human Soldier has a 42% CD bonus, (which is less than most of the Infiltrators I run across in the majority of the games I play) but the recharge speed on Adrenaline Rush is only 3.5 seconds.

But you don't see me crying for a Human Soldier nerf.

Equally, my GI with no points in weight reduction and sporting a Krysae X has a 100% PR Bonus which equates to a 3.92 sec recharge on TC.  The same GI with a Javelin VII has a -20% PR Bonus and a 7.41 sec recharge on TC.

I'm interested under what conditions you're arriving at a 20+ sec cooldown unless you're inferring you carry a slow weapon and a secondary SMG for dropping shields.  In which case... well duh!

The implication being that if the cooldown was totally irrelevant to an infiltrator as is so often said on this forum, then I could easily go -200% and be totally unaffected which is just blatantly untrue.

I don't do that, because cooldown does matter to infiltrators. Not as much as it would to a power class, but that only makes sense because the infiltrators rely on weapons for damage. Cooldowns should mean less to them.

[Malditor]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I will never understand why people think all classes should be close in damage output for weapons. Different classes have different roles/abilities.

Roles? That's not an RPG, aside from maybe justicar or some engineers, everyone's job is killing stuff with powers and weapons. Those who can't do it with powers - Krogan Sentinel to not look far, should have some weapon bonuses to compensate.

Krogan Sentinels can kill enemies with powers.

A single lift grenade can wipe out a room full of troopers if you spec towards power damage, take the power bonus evolution in TA and use power boosting gear.

That is how I play. What I really meant is, that your main source of kills will be weapon - grenades are somewhat scarce, and unreliable if you happen to join a match with Drell Adept and Batarian Soldier and the map in question is Firebase White. My typical silver game, when I am the only grenade user is 25 biotic kill medal and silver shotgun medal, or gold if we play with 3 people or team is lazy. Krogan Sentinel isn't an Adept or Human Sentinel, every possible build will have to rely on weapons.

And the Krogan Sentinel has a definite clear advantage over every other weapon reliant Sentinel, being able to carry heavier and better weapons because he has a higher encumbrance capacity.

A weapon damage buff is just overkill.

Not to mention the health/shield numbers they have.

[BiO]

Ashen Earth wrote...

ElectroNeonPanda wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

The cooldown mechaninc matters to infiltrators, even if it's less of a concern than with power classes. Have you tried running objectives with a 20+ second cooldown?

My Human Soldier has a 42% CD bonus, (which is less than most of the Infiltrators I run across in the majority of the games I play) but the recharge speed on Adrenaline Rush is only 3.5 seconds.

But you don't see me crying for a Human Soldier nerf.

Equally, my GI with no points in weight reduction and sporting a Krysae X has a 100% PR Bonus which equates to a 3.92 sec recharge on TC.  The same GI with a Javelin VII has a -20% PR Bonus and a 7.41 sec recharge on TC.

I'm interested under what conditions you're arriving at a 20+ sec cooldown unless you're inferring you carry a slow weapon and a secondary SMG for dropping shields.  In which case... well duh!

The implication being that if the cooldown was totally irrelevant to an infiltrator as is so often said on this forum, then I could easily go -200% and be totally unaffected which is just blatantly untrue.

I don't do that, because cooldown does matter to infiltrators. Not as much as it would to a power class, but that only makes sense because the infiltrators rely on weapons for damage. Cooldowns should mean less to them.

You're missing the point, by saying cooldown doesn't matter, they are referring to using powers while cloaked, which gives them the cloak cool-down, not the power being used cooldown. And since most infiltrators carry only one weapon, even if it's heavy, cooldowns are never really a problem.

[ElectroNeonPanda]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Not as much as it would to a power class, but that only makes sense because the infiltrators rely on weapons for damage. Cooldowns should mean less to them.

You can't have it both ways with that argument.  If you choose weapons over powers then you should incur a sizeable penalty to your power cooldowns which equates to DoT reduction via lost TC bonuses/utility/survivability.  With the current mechanic you can circumvent the cooldown entirely as long as you don't let your TC run its full course.

And I take it you're admitting that you pulled that 20+ sec cooldown figure out your arse just to lend some credibility to your post.

[Pitznik]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I will never understand why people think all classes should be close in damage output for weapons. Different classes have different roles/abilities.

Roles? That's not an RPG, aside from maybe justicar or some engineers, everyone's job is killing stuff with powers and weapons. Those who can't do it with powers - Krogan Sentinel to not look far, should have some weapon bonuses to compensate.

Krogan Sentinels can kill enemies with powers.

A single lift grenade can wipe out a room full of troopers if you spec towards power damage, take the power bonus evolution in TA and use power boosting gear.

That is how I play. What I really meant is, that your main source of kills will be weapon - grenades are somewhat scarce, and unreliable if you happen to join a match with Drell Adept and Batarian Soldier and the map in question is Firebase White. My typical silver game, when I am the only grenade user is 25 biotic kill medal and silver shotgun medal, or gold if we play with 3 people or team is lazy. Krogan Sentinel isn't an Adept or Human Sentinel, every possible build will have to rely on weapons.

And the Krogan Sentinel has a definite clear advantage over every other weapon reliant Sentinel, being able to carry heavier and better weapons because he has a higher encumbrance capacity.

A weapon damage buff is just overkill.

Krogan Sentinel doesn't have cd based powers worth using, weight capacity isn't really so great for him.

Quick question - how does damage boost from tactical cloak affecting powers makes sense on Infiltrator, who you consider to be weapon based class?

[Zancloufer]

People say Cooldowns don't matter on infiltrators.

Take a Infiltrator with a Heavy Sniper Rifles and shotgun (weapon for all occasions) and objective cap with -200% Cooldown. You'll never say cooldown doesn't matter to them again.

Also, 'Tactical Cloak' is more "Get extra damage for 2-3 seconds and prevent enemies who have no idea where you are and are across the map from seeing you". Try cloaking to run away, I swear some weapons fire cloak seeking projectiles. Also some enemies just don't care your indivisible, around a corner hiding it cover. They'll find you, sneak up/fire around the corner and stomp your invisible ass.

[cuzIMgood]

I prefer option 1 as it is easier to nerf 1 class over buffing 4-5 others. Plus the game would be stupid easy if every class was was op as the infiltrator.

[Malditor]

Pitznik wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

Malditor wrote...

I will never understand why people think all classes should be close in damage output for weapons. Different classes have different roles/abilities.

Roles? That's not an RPG, aside from maybe justicar or some engineers, everyone's job is killing stuff with powers and weapons. Those who can't do it with powers - Krogan Sentinel to not look far, should have some weapon bonuses to compensate.

Krogan Sentinels can kill enemies with powers.

A single lift grenade can wipe out a room full of troopers if you spec towards power damage, take the power bonus evolution in TA and use power boosting gear.

That is how I play. What I really meant is, that your main source of kills will be weapon - grenades are somewhat scarce, and unreliable if you happen to join a match with Drell Adept and Batarian Soldier and the map in question is Firebase White. My typical silver game, when I am the only grenade user is 25 biotic kill medal and silver shotgun medal, or gold if we play with 3 people or team is lazy. Krogan Sentinel isn't an Adept or Human Sentinel, every possible build will have to rely on weapons.

And the Krogan Sentinel has a definite clear advantage over every other weapon reliant Sentinel, being able to carry heavier and better weapons because he has a higher encumbrance capacity.

A weapon damage buff is just overkill.

Krogan Sentinel doesn't have cd based powers worth using, weight capacity isn't really so great for him.

Quick question - how does damage boost from tactical cloak affecting powers makes sense on Infiltrator, who you consider to be weapon based class?

Being able to carry a heavier weapon gives him more flexiblity to carry a harder hitting weapon. He can carry a claymore for the huge damage from weapon use with little impact using the powers he does have. If you give him more weapon damage along with the health/shields and class powers of sentinel that would be unbalanced too.