42 réponses à ce sujet

[sunnydxmen]

We don't for certain that flemeth takes children that's all rumors nothing more.

[sunnydxmen]

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

It is heavily implied Morrigan was stolen as a baby by Flemeth in DAO.

If that wasn't concrete enough just like Cirram55 said at the alter atop Sundermount in DA2, Flemeth clearly states that Morrigan is neither her daughter nor her enemy.

Actually flemeth said When hawk says he not sure whether she your daughter or enemy flemeth says neither is she. meaning morrigan is not sure if she her enemy or mother ,also flemeth said she a girl that think she knows better then anyone else but why not I raise her to be that way. meaning flemeth trained morrigan be what she is today meaning morrigan is just pawn in her game in morrigan is doing what flemeth whether she knows it or not.

[hussey 92]

brushyourteeth wrote...

If Morrigan knows/suspects that Flemeth isn't her real mother, why does she get so touchy when Alistair says during banter that she and Flemeth look alike?

Morrigan also says that it was routine when she was growing up for Flemeth to invite/ensorcel male guests back at the hut. Why bother with sex if you're not human and/or can't produce kids? The witches of the wilds are always reputed to be great beauty's too, as was Flemeth. 'Course she could use magical means to ensure that they're attractive, but I was really under the impression that Morrigan was actually hers.

Morrigan does suspect that Flemeth might not be her real mother, she said so herself. 

I'm not sure what the rest of your post means.  

Although I might be able to answer your "why bother with sex if [you] can't produce kids" question 

[Scarlet Rabbi]

brushyourteeth wrote...
I totally respect your theory, although we both know that Flemeth never ever "clearly states" anything.

Ha, this is true.

sunnydxmen wrote...

Actually flemeth said When hawk says he not sure whether she your
daughter or enemy flemeth says neither is she. meaning morrigan is not
sure if she her enemy or mother ,also flemeth said she a girl that think
she knows better then anyone else but why not I raise her to be that
way. meaning flemeth trained morrigan be what she is today meaning
morrigan is just pawn in her game in morrigan is doing what flemeth
whether she knows it or not.

I gotta be honest, I can't really understand what you're trying to say in the first half of your paragraph, but as for the second half I never challanged that stance. Morrigan could be a clueless pawn in Flemeth's game and, yes, Flemeth did say Morrigan is the way she is because that's how Flemeth raised her, I never said anything to the contrary.

Back to the main point though, I don't know how you interpereted what Flemeth said (regarding her being Morrigan's mother) but it's fairly straight-forward answer she gives Hawke.

Hawke: "I don't know whether she (Morrigan) is your daughter or your enemy."

Flemeth: "Neither is she."

This means, according to Flemeth, Morrigan is neither her daughter nor her enemy. It's pretty clear. I don't know how you got Morrigan being unsure if Flemeth is her real mother from that answer. That is reaching, my friend.

[brushyourteeth]

hussey 92 wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

If Morrigan knows/suspects that Flemeth isn't her real mother, why does she get so touchy when Alistair says during banter that she and Flemeth look alike?

Morrigan also says that it was routine when she was growing up for Flemeth to invite/ensorcel male guests back at the hut. Why bother with sex if you're not human and/or can't produce kids? The witches of the wilds are always reputed to be great beauty's too, as was Flemeth. 'Course she could use magical means to ensure that they're attractive, but I was really under the impression that Morrigan was actually hers.

Morrigan does suspect that Flemeth might not be her real mother, she said so herself. 

I'm not sure what the rest of your post means.  

Although I might be able to answer your "why bother with sex if [you] can't produce kids" question 

LOL - well that's what I meant when I included "if you're not human" - as in if she's some kind of weird abomination/higher power with no desire to reproduce, her interest in sex would be.... unexpected? Interesting? Creepy as hell?

So the rest of my post was basically giving support for the fact that Flemeth may actually be a birthing type woman-thing.

I'll trust you on the Morrigan saying Flemeth may not be her mother. It's admittedly been at least 8 months since I played, and my memory tends to be pretty Alistair-centric.

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...
Back to the main point though, I don't know how you interpereted what Flemeth said (regarding her being Morrigan's mother) but it's fairly straight-forward answer she gives Hawke.

Hawke: "I don't know whether she (Morrigan) is your daughter or your enemy."

Flemeth: "Neither is she."

Actually, what Flemeth replies is "Neither does she."

As in "Morrigan doesn't know whether she's [more like] my daughter or [more like] my enemy either."

[hussey 92]

If I remember correctly, one story was that Flemeth was once human but after her lover was killed she sold her soul to a demon (or something like that).

Also Desire Demons arn't human but you can, you know...do them.

[Scarlet Rabbi]

Wow...I'll totally concede and admit if I'm wrong, but I'm 99.9% sure Flemeth says, "Neither is she."

I've done all my DA2 playthroughs with subtitles on and if I misread (and heard) 'is' instead of 'does' this entire time I'll feel really stupid. Again though, I'm almost certain Flemeth says 'is'.

However, if she doesn't then yeah, that would cast some doubt on my certainty that Morrigan isn't Flemeth's blood relative....wow, this is totally bugging me now! Does Flemeth really say "Neither does she"???

EDIT: nope, sorry just checked. Flemeth does indeed say, "Neither IS she". Lol I knew it. In retrospect though, I may have interpreted that too poetically and maybe Flemeth just means Morrigan isn't certain if Flemeth is her mother or her enemy either....Or it could mean what I originally thought: Flemeth is saying Morrigan is neither my daugher nor is she my enemy.

"Neither is she..."

Haha, yeah, I like that one. Much more dramatic.

[brushyourteeth]

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

Wow...I'll totally concede and admit if I'm wrong, but I'm 99.9% sure Flemeth says, "Neither is she."

I've done all my DA2 playthroughs with subtitles on and if I misread (and heard) 'is' instead of 'does' this entire time I'll feel really stupid. Again though, I'm almost certain Flemeth says 'is'.

However, if she doesn't then yeah, that would cast some doubt on my certainty that Morrigan isn't Flemeth's blood relative....wow, this is totally bugging me now! Does Flemeth really say "Neither does she"???

EDIT: nope, sorry just checked. Flemeth does indeed say, "Neither IS she". Lol I knew it. In retrospect though, I may have interpreted that too poetically and maybe Flemeth just means Morrigan isn't certain if Flemeth is her mother or her enemy either....Or it could mean what I originally thought: Flemeth is saying Morrigan is neither my daugher nor is she my enemy.

"Neither is she..."

Haha, yeah, I like that one. Much more dramatic.

True - I just looked it up and we were both wrong. Hawke says "I'm not sure whether she's your daughter or your enemy." and Flemeth says "neither is she." But I think the implication is the same.

So I'm still not completely convinced, but still intruigued.  (not that where I stand is really of any importance at all).

[Cirram55]

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

I've done all my DA2 playthroughs with subtitles on and if I misread (and heard) 'is' instead of 'does' this entire time I'll feel really stupid.

For this exact reason I keep tons of saves right before important convos. So you can always go back and check them out.



Flemeth says very little in DAII (and in general), but this is exactly the reason why I am inclined to believe her no matter what.
I mean, if you never talk, and when you do you're talking in riddles, and when so you're lying too, what the hell!
Just shut up no?

Aehm, so basically yes, I've always seen her as the embodiment of regret and thought she had no reason to lie to me, being her something surely bigger than my warden or Hawke.

Modifié par Cirram55, 15 juin 2012 - 10:08 .

[Jerrybnsn]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

She could have been stolen...or she could be the sister of Alistair!! DA-DA-DUHN!!!

Alistair's dad did do something in private with Flemeth...

And Flemeth's line about Morrigan in DA2 is clearly about Morrigan being unsure about Flemeth, not the other way around.

Of course, this is very, very unlikely considering Alistair has the option of carrying out the Dark Ritual with Morrigan.  Ewwwww!

No story teller would ever allow that...unless you're Thomas Malory.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 16 juin 2012 - 12:15 .

[Androme]

I'm here to end this debate:

We don't know. Perhaps we will know. But we don't know atm if Morrigan is the biological daughter of Flemeth or not.

[tesaiga]

i dont know if they are realy Mother and Daughter but they bot have the same eyes golden color if i remember so maybe they are

[Schlochtenberg]

Flemeth is some kind of bodysnatcher.
She achieves her longevity not by prolonging the lifefunctions of her current body but by possesing a completly new one. When her current body ages and weakens she attacks her daughter or a granddaughter and takes over her body,

So the curent Flemeth could have given birth to Morrigan before she was been taken over by the former Flemeth, i.e. Flemeth mother/Morrigans grandmother.

The old god baby will be in the same situation if Flemeth manages to take over Morrigan and Morrigan becomes the new Flemeth. Who will be her mother? Morrigan? Flemeth? Morrigan turned into Flemeth?

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

It's been outright stated that Morrigan is one of the children that Flemeth abducts, and one in a line of many, going back for generations.

In fact, I think it was stated by Morrigan herself, when she comes back to you after reading Flemeth's diary, and gives you the quest to kill her.

[Jerrybnsn]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

It's been outright stated that Morrigan is one of the children that Flemeth abducts, and one in a line of many, going back for generations.

In fact, I think it was stated by Morrigan herself, when she comes back to you after reading Flemeth's diary, and gives you the quest to kill her.

I'm think she might be King Maric's & Flemeth's  daughter.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 juin 2012 - 11:57 .

[Han Shot First]

Plaintiff wrote...

I never saw anything that implied Morrigan was stolen as a child. I always just assumed that Flemeth's physical human form was human ENOUGH to allow interbreeding.

She's a shapeshifter, isn't she? With the right partner, maybe she could have any kind of baby she wants.

There is dialogue where Morrigan speculates about the origins of Flemeth's daughters.

The two theories she puts forward was that Flemeth takes lovers from the Chasind or that she flat out abducts Chasind infants. So either way, Morrigan at least had a Chasind father.

I'm think she might be King Maric's & Flemeth's  daughter

Both Morrigan's dialogue and her appearance hints at Chasind ancestry. She's got a darker appearance than most Fereldens, and the Theirin Kings all appear to be very blonde.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 24 juin 2012 - 02:33 .