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[Lord Athena]

Maclimes wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

Here, for your reading:
http://tolkien.slimy...tml#DwarfBeards 

Thats not really fact, unless Tolkien said it himself with quotes it is just speculation... But hey if people want to believe that, fine by me. And yes I saw that his son saying something about it being true, but unless Tolkien said it then it's alot of rubbish...

I guess you didn't actually read it.

In The War of the Jewels ("The LaterQuenta Silmarillion: Of the Naugrim and the Edain", written ~1951), Tolkien wrote that "...no Man nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf - unless he were shaven in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame... For the Naugrim have beards from the beginning of their lives, male and female alike..."

No I did read it, but I missed that part.... Tolkien what were you thinking? lol Well I guess its ok for BioWare to add beards to female dwarves, makes sence.

Elves= More Fair than humans and all the other races even when diminshed by grief and sorrow

Men= Fair and ugly

Dwarves= ugly, but have a brave heart....

Makes sence to me, do it BioWare!

Modifié par Lord Athena, 20 juillet 2012 - 09:39 .

[Lord Athena]

New page....my pictures are gone, dam quotes take too much room....

Do you think BioWare will take till 2014 to make Dragon Age 3? Well if they improve it like the leap from Oblivion to Skyrim, then it's worth it.

[thats1evildude]

I'd prefer 2013, myself.

[Maclimes]

Lord Athena wrote...

Know I did read it, but I missed that part.... Tolkien what were you thinking? lol Well I guess its ok for BioWare to add beards to female dwarfs, makes sence.

Elves= More Fair than humans and all the other races even when diminshed by grief and sorrow

Men= Fair and ugly

Dwarves= ugly, but have a brave heart....

Makes sence to me, do it BioWare!

...

I think you missed the point. The point is, in the Tolkien universe, female dwarves are hidden, have big beards, and are indistinguishable from men. In Dragon Age, female dwarves can certainly take on a level of femininity, and identify themselves by gender as readily as any other race.

Just as Tolkien dwarves are not the same as Dragon Age dwarves, nor should Tolkien elves be the same as Dragon Age elves.

In Tolkien, Elves are immortal, graceful people who live in massive tree-cities, have a strong influence on the world, and are in a position of (diminishing) power.

In Dragon Age, Elves are downtrodden, poor people. Whether living in roaming gypsy-style caravans in the wilderness, slave-camps in Par Vollen, or in slums in the Alienages, the Elves are a defeated people. Though they are trying to regain their lost heritage, it is an uphill battle.

Just as their culture is not the same, their appearance does not need to match, either.

[Lord Athena]

Maclimes wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...

Know I did read it, but I missed that part.... Tolkien what were you thinking? lol Well I guess its ok for BioWare to add beards to female dwarfs, makes sence.

Elves= More Fair than humans and all the other races even when diminshed by grief and sorrow

Men= Fair and ugly

Dwarves= ugly, but have a brave heart....

Makes sence to me, do it BioWare!

...

I think you missed the point. The point is, in the Tolkien universe, female dwarves are hidden, have big beards, and are indistinguishable from men. In Dragon Age, female dwarves can certainly take on a level of femininity, and identify themselves by gender as readily as any other race.

Just as Tolkien dwarves are not the same as Dragon Age dwarves, nor should Tolkien elves be the same as Dragon Age elves.

In Tolkien, Elves are immortal, graceful people who live in massive tree-cities, have a strong influence on the world, and are in a position of (diminishing) power.

In Dragon Age, Elves are downtrodden, poor people. Whether living in roaming gypsy-style caravans in the wilderness, slave-camps in Par Vollen, or in slums in the Alienages, the Elves are a defeated people. Though they are trying to regain their lost heritage, it is an uphill battle.

Just as their culture is not the same, their appearance does not need to match, either.

Good point! Yes I don't want all the elves to be like Celeborn and Galadriel, because that wouldn't make any sence. They were once like that. But the race of Men destroyed that era.... their Gods should have helped them. They didn't and so they fell, but even though their power has diminshed doesn't mean they should lose their great beauty. They should still possess their beauty/grace features but look less semi-divine (like bright light aura around them) 

Modifié par Lord Athena, 20 juillet 2012 - 10:44 .

[Maclimes]

I give up.

[Lord Athena]

"Long ago, the elves were the dominant race on Thedas, and had lived in a civilization based on nature and magic. Once they were an immortal and magically talented race that lived in harmony with the natural world and followed the elven pantheon."


 

^They were once like that, you see semi-divine immortals, they were almost God like

"After its fall to the Tevinter Imperium and their generations of slavery however, the elves had lost most of their cultural heritage and identity."



After the fall they now look like this, see they still have beauty, but it isn't WOW factor anymore! They shouldn't look like freaks that are different, especially the city elves since they are cross breed with humans. They are more human than elf now.

Modifié par Lord Athena, 20 juillet 2012 - 10:38 .

[Lord Athena]

Maclimes wrote...

I give up.

Read my follow up, lol you give up too easily.... And I like our arguing, it's fun. Debates are suppose to be like this anyway.... in secret you enjoy it too....

Modifié par Lord Athena, 20 juillet 2012 - 10:41 .

[Maclimes]

Is that Janene Garofalo as an elf?

Also, I honestly think that if they fixed the weird "nose-bridge", the rest would fall into place.

As near as I can figure it, visually speaking:

Humans are circles. Everything is rounder. Round muscles, round bellies, round breasts, round cheeks, round jaws. Lots of curving, lots of rounded edges.

Dwarves are squares. Square chin, square body, square head, square brow. Everything is stocky and blocky,

Elves should be isosceles triangles. Triangular chins, triangular noses, triangular torsos. Everything should be slender and sharp, with few curves but lots of sharp angles.

[Lord Athena]

Also how can they be different from humans? They enslaved them and i'm sure they didn't have a cup of tea and merry parties with them? The men raped the elven women (so obvious because we all know what men think 99% of the time) And after centuries of abuse and rape and producing bastard children the elven race turned into the mirror image of the human race.

And because of that they lost

1. Immortality (Dam that sucks)
2. Divine Beauty (Yet still always better looking than the average human)
3. Power
4. Homeland
5. Knowledge of great magic and forging
6. Elven language (Some still know it)

I'm sure some escaped this fate, so there must be a pure blood clan of elven in the world that are still immortal, like the Thalmor. That would be very interesting to see! Pure blood elves hiding for centuries to reveal themselves and enslave the human race for revenge after subjecting their race to a millennia of slavery.

[Lord Athena]

Maclimes wrote...

Is that Janene Garofalo as an elf?

Elves should be isosceles triangles. Triangular chins, triangular noses, triangular torsos. Everything should be slender and sharp, with few curves but lots of sharp angles.

I have no idea? Maybe.....

Triangular, can you show or draw me what that would look like? I would love to see it. 

[Lord Athena]

If that is triangular....... I think i'll pass

[The Hierophant]

Lord Athena wrote...

I'm sure some escaped this fate, so there must be a pure blood clan of elven in the world that are still immortal, like the Thalmor. That would be very interesting to see! Pure blood elves hiding for centuries to reveal themselves and enslave the human race for revenge after subjecting their race to a millennia of slavery.

I highly doubt this because they would need a sizable population in the hundreds of thousands to survive the millenia without them devolving into inbred troglodytes, and with a population of that size they could have turned the tide at Arlathan/Dales.

 

[Lord Athena]

The Hierophant wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...

I'm sure some escaped this fate, so there must be a pure blood clan of elven in the world that are still immortal, like the Thalmor. That would be very interesting to see! Pure blood elves hiding for centuries to reveal themselves and enslave the human race for revenge after subjecting their race to a millennia of slavery.

I highly doubt this because they would need a sizable population in the hundreds of thousands to survive the millenia without them devolving into inbred troglodytes, and with a population of that size they could have turned the tide at Arlathan/Dales.

 

 Thats were your wrong. Outright battle would not win their war, their true weapons are being cunning, manipulative and using treachery against their enemies, while hiding in the shadows. Using their enemies as pawns against each other. For example starting the Templar/Mage War, making their enemies weak while they grow stong. And population wouldn't be a problem, they are immortal, and i'm sure they would disguise themselves as a common city elf while taking a bride/groom and then leave with the child or persuade other elves to join them. Then once the Empire was in a disorganised mess they would start the rebellion in the cities, and the poor humans would not have the strength for another war.



"Your Tyrant Empire was intrusted to lead the lands of Thedas and beyond, but you were deceived as our powers of the ancient elven lore have blinded you.... and now we have returned!"

(Big roar cheer of Noldor elves and Thalmor as they massacre the Tevinter Imperium and sack their cities.) LoL imagine the shock on the human's faces...

Ok I ripped off SW TOR, but they wolud most likely say something like that....

Modifié par Lord Athena, 20 juillet 2012 - 11:53 .

[Lord Athena]

I would like to see this in dragon age 3!

[Maclimes]

That picture you just posted is a perfect example of what I mean by "triangular". See the general shape of the armor, the head-pieces, the shoulders? The way the chin narrows to a severe point from the cheeks? The slant of the brow and the eyes? It's very triangular (which is very close to, but not quite the same as, spiky).

Whereas a dwarf would have more "squared" features. Square chins, thicker flat brows, barrel chests. Check out the Legion of the Dead armor (the most "dwarf specific" armor in the game). The shoulder pauldrons are square, with small angled square shapes, and even the "logo" is very blocky.

And humans have more rounded features, such as sloping brows, round cheeks, and more subdued (or at least rounded) chins. Look at Duncan's armor: Rounded shoulder pieces, lots of sloping curves and curly details.

[Gebert]

While I agree that the Elves in DA2 were... peculiar looking, I must say I almost wholly disagree with everything you are saying, Lord Athena. The Elves of DA should not look like D&D's elves, nor Tolkien's, nor TES's, they should have their own design. Sure, they should have the basic traits usually associated with Elves (i.e. lithe bodies and pointy ears), and I agree with what Maclimes said about the shapes of the races.

If Bioware would look try to make their Elves actually look like they do in the concept art for DA2, I would be happy, for those were original and unique, but still undoubtedly Elves.

Oh, and throw some footwear in their direction, please.

[Maclimes]

Gebert wrote...

Oh, and throw some footwear in their direction, please.

Next time I play through DA2, I'm gonna have to take a close look at Zevran. If he's not wearing leather boots, considering that was one of his major plot gifts in DA:O, I'll be a sad panda.

[frostajulie]

anything would be an approvement from the godawful assonface ugly things we got in DA2, except for Fenris it worked for him for some reason.

[Gebert]

Maclimes wrote...

Gebert wrote...

Oh, and throw some footwear in their direction, please.

Next time I play through DA2, I'm gonna have to take a close look at Zevran. If he's not wearing leather boots, considering that was one of his major plot gifts in DA:O, I'll be a sad panda.

Heh, never thought about that. 

[Lord Athena]

Maclimes wrote...

That picture you just posted is a perfect example of what I mean by "triangular". See the general shape of the armor, the head-pieces, the shoulders? The way the chin narrows to a severe point from the cheeks? The slant of the brow and the eyes? It's very triangular (which is very close to, but not quite the same as, spiky).

Whereas a dwarf would have more "squared" features. Square chins, thicker flat brows, barrel chests. Check out the Legion of the Dead armor (the most "dwarf specific" armor in the game). The shoulder pauldrons are square, with small angled square shapes, and even the "logo" is very blocky.

And humans have more rounded features, such as sloping brows, round cheeks, and more subdued (or at least rounded) chins. Look at Duncan's armor: Rounded shoulder pieces, lots of sloping curves and curly details.

Oh, but alot of the Skyrim high elves don't look attractive at all, with the females you can make their chin more round and make the brows closer to the eyes and eyes closer to the nose, same for the mouth. Having a long weird shaped face like that is not beauty in anyway, unless you were blind and couldn't sence images by touch.

The males are the worst though, at least the females are somewhat ok.

[Lord Athena]

Gebert wrote...

While I agree that the Elves in DA2 were... peculiar looking, I must say I almost wholly disagree with everything you are saying, Lord Athena. The Elves of DA should not look like D&D's elves, nor Tolkien's, nor TES's, they should have their own design. Sure, they should have the basic traits usually associated with Elves (i.e. lithe bodies and pointy ears), and I agree with what Maclimes said about the shapes of the races.

If Bioware would look try to make their Elves actually look like they do in the concept art for DA2, I would be happy, for those were original and unique, but still undoubtedly Elves.

Oh, and throw some footwear in their direction, please.

Em? You don't want TES elves, yet you agree with Maclimes about the shapes being triangle like? You do know thats what Bethesda did with the Elder Scrolls elves design don't you? They made the face more triangular?

[Lord Athena]

If you want unique thats what your going to get, Elder Scroll elves. I'm sure Bethesda will be proud that their design is being emulated by BioWare. I'm sure BioWare said they were going to check out Skyrim for ideas for DA3. Good God the elves are doomed....

[Lord Athena]

Thats a better bone structure... Better than what ever the hell that thing above looks like?

Modifié par Lord Athena, 21 juillet 2012 - 12:36 .