Modifié par Elton John is dead, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:05 .
Elton John is dead wrote...
Lord Athena wrote...
Remember the Holy Crusade? What was Holy about church tyrants? Their purpose was to claim land, take booty and exploit people whose culture differed from the people in western Europe. They also raped and murdered woman and children in their Gods name.
"Kill'em all, and let God sort'em out" is adopted by the Marines and the Green Berets.
"Burn the Heretics and blasphemers in the name of our Lord Christ!"
Sounds familar to what the humans did to the elves thousands of years ago in Dragon Age and other real myths.
The Crusades were politically motivated. The Seljuq empire was expanding its territory and attacking The Orthodox Church who requested aid from the Catholic Church which begun The First Crusade. Though there was terrible corruption in later crusades but all honorable and noble goals are eventually corrupted.
http://www.middle-ag...of-crusades.htm
Now as far as I know, elves before Tolkien invented the popular version of them never had the pointy ears found in some fantasy works today. I know some stories from centuries ago where elves were actually abducting children and were portrayed as being evil. The Norse had them down as being divine beings that man could become too. However as I mentioned beforehand you had other depictions of them too and faeries were one of them.Maclimes wrote...
That's Tolkien's elves, not Thedas elves.
Tolkien's dwarves did not have females. Should Bioware have emulated Tolkien in that regard, as well?
No, these are all new elves. Not Tolkien, not D&D, not Keebler, but Dragon Age. And I have no problem with them having their own distinct look, background, and outlook from Tolkien elves.
Tolkien's dwarves did have females but they were just rare and view like in Dragon Age 2 where they are virtually non-existent (once again Bioware borrows from Tolkien).
-------
Back to the discussion of elves:
I don't want a semi-divine beautiful race. I want a race whose members can be fair or ugly just like with humans. Dragon Age 2 however only had 3 decent looking elves with every other elf looking as though they were deformed. No one wants that. Even the dwarves looked better than DA2 elves (and as far as I know, don't humans in DA consider most of them unattractive because MOST of them are unattractive?).
My point was that elves can be made to look unique without being made into ugly deformed and twisted creatures.Jademoon121 wrote...
Lord Athena wrote...
I really want to play as a decedant of a noble "elvhen" the ancient name of what the elves were called when they were immortal. And I think that would be possible, because i'm sure a royal family of the Elven Empire escaped and then they would drift into "centuries-long slumber". That would be a nice origin to play, because i'm really sick of only human nobles.
They would look like this (image below)
Noble Elvhen Race
(snip)
"Immortal and ready to burn the human heretic scum and bring our elven people to it's former glory!" [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie]
Now that design is unique! I love the dress! she looks pretty and I would love this origin to pop in Dragon Age 3! I played the underdog already, I know that perceptive already! I want to look through the eyes of a noble elven family that has survied the persecution of the humans and now the last lineage to a once proud noble race! Like "Return Of The King" but better and more intresting to see a strong leader and future Empress/Emperor lead his people and give them their immortality back!
As far as I know, all of the elven cities where destroyed along with everything and everyone within them. Chances are, there are no Arlathan Elves anymore. Besides, that'll wreck the entire theme of Thedas' Elves. Personaly, I like playing an impoverished pauper in a ghetto, or a woodland dweller that's barely better than a bandit.
Same here. DA's elves were unique because of their culture, history and lore. They didn't need to be changed. There's no LOTR elves with tattoos as far as I recall whereas dalish elves in DA had tattoos and were more tribal than LOTR's elves. This set them apart for me. Further more while the appearance of DA elves was clearly inspired by LOTR elves it should be noted that DA elves had some differences such as having bigger and pointer ears, being smaller and also being more thinner.
There were also some deliberately ugly elves showing that elves in DA aren't some semi-divine race whose members are blessed with great beauty.
(snips)
Now find me a Tolkien elf that looks like one of these two elves.
If Bioware really wanted to make a unique elf, they could have simply made the ears much much smaller and given them something distinctive like horns. Yeah I know the kossith have horns too but they don't have to be exclusive only to them and the elves could have had smaller horns.
Perhaps Bioware should look to real world mythology such as Greek Mythology for ideas of how to design something new. But I guess that's stealing too.
What was that quote? That all ideas are copied and simply built upon? I mean Tolkien's elves were based on the Norse elves and the orcs were based on other creatures from myth too. I'm sure the first people who came up with these creatures had something which inspired their creation.
I mean the extinct Elasmotherium was most likely the insprition for the unicorn which is why Marco Polo called one a unicorn.
Elton John is dead wrote...
Yeah. The concept art of the elves looked alright but the more I think of it, the more I wouldn't put it down to "a rush job" because even characters like Mathari (who clearly had some time spent on them) didn't look that good.
Jademoon121 wrote...
As far as I know, all of the elven cities where destroyed along with everything and everyone within them. Chances are, there are no Arlathan Elves anymore. Besides, that'll wreck the entire theme of Thedas' Elves. Personaly, I like playing an impoverished pauper in a ghetto, or a woodland dweller that's barely better than a bandit.
Modifié par Lord Athena, 22 juillet 2012 - 03:39 .
Modifié par Lord Athena, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:58 .
Modifié par Lord Athena, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:14 .
Lord Athena wrote...
Anyway is it a crime to want to look like a badass royal elf?
SNIP
I'm going to mod it either way so why bother making them look like a thing nobody will play with?
instead of Shrieks. Either way they should be put down fast to stop the taint from spreading. 
Modifié par SirCrashalot, 22 juillet 2012 - 06:09 .
SirCrashalot wrote...
While I think the Elves in DA2 were horrid, I wouldn't really have had that much of an issue with them if they were set in a different (non DA) universe. The big issue for me is that Bioware broke the DA universe by making the DA2 Elves completely different from DA:O Elves, at least the Qunari changes are easily explained as they are made up of several different races anyway.
How can the rapid mutation of all Elves into Goblinesque caricatures be explained in order to keep some form of continuity?
Perhaps the taint fell out of the ugly tree hitting every branch on the way down before infecting every Elf of Theldas and turning them into these things
Saberchic wrote...
I also am not a huge fan of the elf redseign, but I think with some minor tweaking, they'd be fine. Fenris and Merrill look alright, but that's because they don't look like other elves--they have a more square face than the others (who have ridiculously slender and angled faces).
I don't mind that BW wanted to make elves a little more different, but I think they went overboard with it. If they had to design Fenris and Merrill like they did so that they looked "cool," then obviously there's a problem with the overall elf design. I'm interested in seeing what BW will come up with on the new redesign.
Lord Athena wrote...
Saberchic wrote...
I also am not a huge fan of the elf redseign, but I think with some minor tweaking, they'd be fine. Fenris and Merrill look alright, but that's because they don't look like other elves--they have a more square face than the others (who have ridiculously slender and angled faces).
I don't mind that BW wanted to make elves a little more different, but I think they went overboard with it. If they had to design Fenris and Merrill like they did so that they looked "cool," then obviously there's a problem with the overall elf design. I'm interested in seeing what BW will come up with on the new redesign.
Minor tweaking? More like Major Overhaul! LOL
They just need to keep adjusting what they're doing. Eventually, I think we'll find a happy medium.
Saberchic wrote...
Lord Athena wrote...
Saberchic wrote...
I also am not a huge fan of the elf redseign, but I think with some minor tweaking, they'd be fine. Fenris and Merrill look alright, but that's because they don't look like other elves--they have a more square face than the others (who have ridiculously slender and angled faces).
I don't mind that BW wanted to make elves a little more different, but I think they went overboard with it. If they had to design Fenris and Merrill like they did so that they looked "cool," then obviously there's a problem with the overall elf design. I'm interested in seeing what BW will come up with on the new redesign.
Minor tweaking? More like Major Overhaul! LOL
Nah. I like that Bioware wanted to try something different to separate the elves a bit more from looking like humans. I'm just not fond of the result.
thats fine by me.
Modifié par Lord Athena, 22 juillet 2012 - 11:39 .
Lord Athena wrote...
Jademoon121 wrote...
As far as I know, all of the elven cities where destroyed along with everything and everyone within them. Chances are, there are no Arlathan Elves anymore. Besides, that'll wreck the entire theme of Thedas' Elves. Personaly, I like playing an impoverished pauper in a ghetto, or a woodland dweller that's barely better than a bandit.
If that was true there wouldn't be any Dales, it is said they escaped and hide. So i'm sure a few hundreds-thousands escaped and turned into smaller tribes that decided to break-off in groups, because if they tried to make another city it would just get sacked like the 1st and 2nd city they built. And so they hide the elves that still had their immortality and let them protect what was left of their royal/noble familes.
So there will be Arlathan elves still alive, maybe only a few. But they are not dead and their royal family would be the first to run and flee, even if it was only a few of them.
Well humans can be bandits and nobles, so why can't the elves have the option too? I like royal lineage who starts off as a ranger and becomes a King/Queen. It's only fair! All you would have to do is make Arlathan Dales, it's not hard.... We already have the dirty underdog city elves and having two underdogs is stupid. I want to help my race! Not sit and watch them get raped while I hide in a tree or be mounted by four human guards because they see I look like a fine **** to exploit!
Plus i'm sure they had other smaller Elven Empires apart from Thedas, but if that were true they would of helped them. Unless they decided not too, incase they too got the disease the humans had spread upon the others.
Modifié par Jademoon121, 23 juillet 2012 - 05:15 .
Jademoon121 wrote...
Lord Athena wrote...
Jademoon121 wrote...
As far as I know, all of the elven cities where destroyed along with everything and everyone within them. Chances are, there are no Arlathan Elves anymore. Besides, that'll wreck the entire theme of Thedas' Elves. Personaly, I like playing an impoverished pauper in a ghetto, or a woodland dweller that's barely better than a bandit.
If that was true there wouldn't be any Dales, it is said they escaped and hide. So i'm sure a few hundreds-thousands escaped and turned into smaller tribes that decided to break-off in groups, because if they tried to make another city it would just get sacked like the 1st and 2nd city they built. And so they hide the elves that still had their immortality and let them protect what was left of their royal/noble familes.
So there will be Arlathan elves still alive, maybe only a few. But they are not dead and their royal family would be the first to run and flee, even if it was only a few of them.
Well humans can be bandits and nobles, so why can't the elves have the option too? I like royal lineage who starts off as a ranger and becomes a King/Queen. It's only fair! All you would have to do is make Arlathan Dales, it's not hard.... We already have the dirty underdog city elves and having two underdogs is stupid. I want to help my race! Not sit and watch them get raped while I hide in a tree or be mounted by four human guards because they see I look like a fine **** to exploit!
Plus i'm sure they had other smaller Elven Empires apart from Thedas, but if that were true they would of helped them. Unless they decided not too, incase they too got the disease the humans had spread upon the others.
You are forgetting the lore.
Those that fled the Dales became the Dalish, and that was thousands upon thousands of years after Arlathan's fall along with everything that made them elven, immortality included. Any "true elf" that were in dreaming or alive, are most likely dead. The Dales was the only elven realm in the entire world, consisting of slaves from all corners of Thedas. Although it's not often referenced in game, the elves are not large in number.
Elves cannot be nobles because Elves are a lesser race of once-slaves and pickpockets that spend their days bemoaning about their lost empire, or festering in poverty. We do not allow them into the Chantry or the army because they'd most likely steal everything of value. The closest thing that the Elves have to nobles are the Keepers, mages who cannot be trusted as they'll sooner be possessed by deamons than lead their people.
Arlathan has fallen. Elvish immortality, religion, and language are dust in the wind. Any hope or returning to the days of Arlathan is gone so long as the Dalish wander, and the flat-ears become more and more like men. The only place were you can find dignified and beautiful elves, is either in the local bordello to feed her kids, or deep in the forest living like animals.
If you want to see a noble race with a touch of faerie in them, Thedas is not the place.
A new tribe, adapted to a life in the deep roads, aka dark elves.
Jademoon121 wrote...
You are forgetting the lore.
Those that fled the Dales became the Dalish, and that was thousands upon thousands of years after Arlathan's fall along with everything that made them elven, immortality included. Any "true elf" that were in dreaming or alive, are most likely dead. The Dales was the only elven realm in the entire world, consisting of slaves from all corners of Thedas. Although it's not often referenced in game, the elves are not large in number.
Elves cannot be nobles because Elves are a lesser race of once-slaves and pickpockets that spend their days bemoaning about their lost empire, or festering in poverty. We do not allow them into the Chantry or the army because they'd most likely steal everything of value. The closest thing that the Elves have to nobles are the Keepers, mages who cannot be trusted as they'll sooner be possessed by deamons than lead their people.
Arlathan has fallen. Elvish immortality, religion, and language are dust in the wind. Any hope or returning to the days of Arlathan is gone so long as the Dalish wander, and the flat-ears become more and more like men. The only place were you can find dignified and beautiful elves, is either in the local bordello to feed her kids, or deep in the forest living like animals.
If you want to see a noble race with a touch of faerie in them, Thedas is not the place.
Modifié par Lord Athena, 23 juillet 2012 - 03:06 .
Lord Athena wrote...
Jademoon121 wrote...
You are forgetting the lore.
Those that fled the Dales became the Dalish, and that was thousands upon thousands of years after Arlathan's fall along with everything that made them elven, immortality included. Any "true elf" that were in dreaming or alive, are most likely dead. The Dales was the only elven realm in the entire world, consisting of slaves from all corners of Thedas. Although it's not often referenced in game, the elves are not large in number.
Elves cannot be nobles because Elves are a lesser race of once-slaves and pickpockets that spend their days bemoaning about their lost empire, or festering in poverty. We do not allow them into the Chantry or the army because they'd most likely steal everything of value. The closest thing that the Elves have to nobles are the Keepers, mages who cannot be trusted as they'll sooner be possessed by deamons than lead their people.
Arlathan has fallen. Elvish immortality, religion, and language are dust in the wind. Any hope or returning to the days of Arlathan is gone so long as the Dalish wander, and the flat-ears become more and more like men. The only place were you can find dignified and beautiful elves, is either in the local bordello to feed her kids, or deep in the forest living like animals.
If you want to see a noble race with a touch of faerie in them, Thedas is not the place.
Elves are not faeries, but thanks for the insult. And i'd rather see that then biased people who think only humans should be noble. Your talking about the elves as if they have no honour, humans are the most likely people who will be stealing among other things like rape and murder. The land doesn't even belong to them and yet they claim it's theirs?
Also Arlathan is a city not it's people, just because a city falls doesn't mean that they all die. Yes it says they lost there immortality but does that make them less noble? And just because it says the Dales lost their immortality, they were almost getting it back. Thats why I want to see them get it back because they have it inside them they just don't know how to use it. That's the whole point? I don't want to see dragon age 3 with more God damn slaves! I want them to get a kingdom and have a Queen and King and nobles again.
Are you forgeting the lore? Because it seems you just putting your own words in there? It never said Dales were half pure blood that consisted of elf slaves. It said they escaped from their second kingdom in Dales, instead of getting dominated by the humans with their false God and prophet.
Also the Dales are not composed of slaves, they hate the city elves! Are you making this crap up just because you don't want pure blood elves? Because I hate to say this to you but the Dalish are the Dales who fled from their first home which makes them Arlathan. So they are pure blood Arlathan, just because they are not wearing noble clothes does not mean they are not noble blood.
Modifié par BobSmith101, 23 juillet 2012 - 03:36 .
Eilaras wrote...
Jademoon121 wrote...
Lord Athena wrote...
Jademoon121 wrote...
As far as I know, all of the elven cities where destroyed along with everything and everyone within them. Chances are, there are no Arlathan Elves anymore. Besides, that'll wreck the entire theme of Thedas' Elves. Personaly, I like playing an impoverished pauper in a ghetto, or a woodland dweller that's barely better than a bandit.
If that was true there wouldn't be any Dales, it is said they escaped and hide. So i'm sure a few hundreds-thousands escaped and turned into smaller tribes that decided to break-off in groups, because if they tried to make another city it would just get sacked like the 1st and 2nd city they built. And so they hide the elves that still had their immortality and let them protect what was left of their royal/noble familes.
So there will be Arlathan elves still alive, maybe only a few. But they are not dead and their royal family would be the first to run and flee, even if it was only a few of them.
Well humans can be bandits and nobles, so why can't the elves have the option too? I like royal lineage who starts off as a ranger and becomes a King/Queen. It's only fair! All you would have to do is make Arlathan Dales, it's not hard.... We already have the dirty underdog city elves and having two underdogs is stupid. I want to help my race! Not sit and watch them get raped while I hide in a tree or be mounted by four human guards because they see I look like a fine **** to exploit!
Plus i'm sure they had other smaller Elven Empires apart from Thedas, but if that were true they would of helped them. Unless they decided not too, incase they too got the disease the humans had spread upon the others.
You are forgetting the lore.
Those that fled the Dales became the Dalish, and that was thousands upon thousands of years after Arlathan's fall along with everything that made them elven, immortality included. Any "true elf" that were in dreaming or alive, are most likely dead. The Dales was the only elven realm in the entire world, consisting of slaves from all corners of Thedas. Although it's not often referenced in game, the elves are not large in number.
Elves cannot be nobles because Elves are a lesser race of once-slaves and pickpockets that spend their days bemoaning about their lost empire, or festering in poverty. We do not allow them into the Chantry or the army because they'd most likely steal everything of value. The closest thing that the Elves have to nobles are the Keepers, mages who cannot be trusted as they'll sooner be possessed by deamons than lead their people.
Arlathan has fallen. Elvish immortality, religion, and language are dust in the wind. Any hope or returning to the days of Arlathan is gone so long as the Dalish wander, and the flat-ears become more and more like men. The only place were you can find dignified and beautiful elves, is either in the local bordello to feed her kids, or deep in the forest living like animals.
If you want to see a noble race with a touch of faerie in them, Thedas is not the place.
But there still might be some places in Thedas that has not been fully explored, at least in the deep roads. I hope that somewhere in the deep roads, you can find
a) The last ancient elves
Lord Athena wrote...
Jademoon121 wrote...
You are forgetting the lore.
Those that fled the Dales became the Dalish, and that was thousands upon thousands of years after Arlathan's fall along with everything that made them elven, immortality included. Any "true elf" that were in dreaming or alive, are most likely dead. The Dales was the only elven realm in the entire world, consisting of slaves from all corners of Thedas. Although it's not often referenced in game, the elves are not large in number.
Elves cannot be nobles because Elves are a lesser race of once-slaves and pickpockets that spend their days bemoaning about their lost empire, or festering in poverty. We do not allow them into the Chantry or the army because they'd most likely steal everything of value. The closest thing that the Elves have to nobles are the Keepers, mages who cannot be trusted as they'll sooner be possessed by deamons than lead their people.
Arlathan has fallen. Elvish immortality, religion, and language are dust in the wind. Any hope or returning to the days of Arlathan is gone so long as the Dalish wander, and the flat-ears become more and more like men. The only place were you can find dignified and beautiful elves, is either in the local bordello to feed her kids, or deep in the forest living like animals.
If you want to see a noble race with a touch of faerie in them, Thedas is not the place.
Elves are not faeries, but thanks for the insult. And i'd rather see that then biased people who think only humans should be noble. Your talking about the elves as if they have no honour, humans are the most likely people who will be stealing among other things like rape and murder. The land doesn't even belong to them and yet they claim it's theirs?
Also Arlathan is a city not it's people, just because a city falls doesn't mean that they all die. Yes it says they lost there immortality but does that make them less noble? And just because it says the Dales lost their immortality, they were almost getting it back. Thats why I want to see them get it back because they have it inside them they just don't know how to use it. That's the whole point? I don't want to see dragon age 3 with more God damn slaves! I want them to get a kingdom and have a Queen and King and nobles again.
Are you forgeting the lore? Because it seems you just putting your own words in there? It never said Dales were half pure blood that consisted of elf slaves. It said they escaped from their second kingdom in Dales, instead of getting dominated by the humans with their false God and prophet.
Also the Dales are not composed of slaves, they hate the city elves! Are you making this crap up just because you don't want pure blood elves? Because I hate to say this to you but the Dalish are the Dales who fled from their first home which makes them Arlathan. So they are pure blood Arlathan, just because they are not wearing noble clothes does not mean they are not noble blood.
Modifié par Jademoon121, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:19 .
It depends on lore yet to be revealed relating to how attractive humans find donkeys and donkey/humanoid hybrids.hussey 92 wrote...
What confuses me is that DA lore says humans find elves attractive, So doesn't the new direction of elves contradict the lore?
Modifié par Lord Athena, 26 juillet 2012 - 03:17 .
Guest_Faerunner_*
Jademoon121 wrote...
Elves have no honor, becuase there is none left for them. They must either resort to banditry, slavery, or servititude to survive. They lost, they are losing, and are almost gone from the world. Humans and Elves are no different when it comes to attaining their ends. Heck, there is no difference between a human and a city-elf. Both in fact detest the Dalish as barbarians, and there are elven followers of the Maker that have more zeal than any templar.
Arlathan was swallowed into the earth via powerful magics by the Tevinter Imperium, an empire built on slavery and blood. They would not want any evidence of any past glories, that's why they burned and destroyed all traces of Arlathan they could find, rather than preserve them. As for the immortality, we don't even know if they were truly immortal or not. Even then, it was contact with humanity that made them mortal if that was the case. Since humans are found all over Thedas, they cannot isolate themselves from them.
The Dales were slaves and "half-breeds" (eventhough there are no half-elves). All elves from all over Thedas came to the Dales, only to be sundered into the Dalish and City Elves after its fall to the Chantry.
Yes, the Dalish are the descendants of Elven nobility, but someone that lives in the trees and hunts animals like an animal, is not what a noble makes.
Thedosian Elves, a not moral, decent creatures of legend. They are paupers, slaves, prostitutes, and bandits who depend on humanity for their survival by any means. Even the Dalish are lowly things that must hide and cower, hunting innocent humans just to get by and to feed their delusions of grandure.
Arlathan is gone. Elvhenan is dead. This is the setting of Thedas, and that is what it shall be.
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