[quote]Faerunner wrote...
[quote]Jademoon121 wrote...
[/quote]Elves have no honor, becuase there is none left for them. They must either resort to banditry, slavery, or servititude to survive. They lost, they are losing, and are almost gone from the world. Humans and Elves are no different when it comes to attaining their ends. Heck, there is no difference between a human and a city-elf. Both in fact detest the Dalish as barbarians, and
there are elven followers of the Maker that have more zeal than any templar.[/quote]
[/quote]Some, but not all. Of this entire paragraph, these are not universal characteristics that apply to all elves.[/quote]
[quote]Arlathan was swallowed into the earth via powerful magics by the Tevinter Imperium, an empire built on slavery and blood. They would not want any evidence of any past glories, that's why
they burned and destroyed all traces of Arlathan they could find, rather than preserve them. As for the immortality, we don't even know if they were truly immortal or not. Even then, it was contact with humanity that made them mortal if that was the case. Since humans are found all over Thedas, they cannot isolate themselves from them.[/quote]
Considering what traces keep popping up, I don't think they did a very good job. Who knows what more is out there?[/quote]
There very well maybe ruins of Arlathan out there, but not enough to spark an entire renaissance.
[/quote]
[quote]The Dales were slaves and "half-breeds" (eventhough there are no half-elves). All elves from all over Thedas came to the Dales, only to be sundered into the Dalish and City Elves after its fall to the Chantry.[/quote]
I think it goes without saying that they couldn't be "half-breeds" because all human/elf-born children and every descendent after are human, no matter how many elves are re-introduced into the bloodline afterwards, and the Dales would likely never have allowed humans into their borders. Even in the present Dragon Age, you never know which human you pass on the street has elven ancestry and to what quantity, but every elf you encounter is pretty guaranteed to have an all-elf heritage. [/quote]
But they're human nevertheless.[quote]Yes, the Dalish are the descendants of Elven nobility, but someone that lives in the trees and hunts animals like an animal, is not what a noble makes.[/quote]
[/quote]There's so much wrong with this argument that I barely know where to start.
I'll start with the obvious. The Dalish do not "live in the trees and hunt animals" because they want to, they have basically been forced to by circumstances beyond their control. Humans stripped them of their lands and titles
twice and they'll live how they can to survive unless or until circumstances lead them to regaining what they lost. [/quote]
The Dalish live by the strictures of the goddess Andruil, the Ter Vhendhal. They live in the forest, using bows and arrows, to hunt down prey. Yes, they are a people/government in exile, along with being vagabonds and poachers all things considered. They live in lands not privy to them, and are at the mercy of the owners of said land. [/quote] It's basically the same thing with the DN and HN Warden, (supposedly) Fergus Cousland and Nathaniel Howe. After loosing their lands and titles, they're all basically forced to live like animals as well (the Warden especially is hunted like an animal for over a year, and Nathaniel has to steal like one for several months) until they no longer need to do so. Do their survival methods during their exile automatically negate their nobility?[/quote]
No, because they still have a valid claim to their position. The Dalish, at best, have bloodlines and titles that mean nothing to current system.[/quote]I mean, heck, even nobles with better circumstances don't always do much better. I would think that drinking, gambling, womanizing and brutalizing all willy-nilly is "not what a noble makes" either, yet
plenty of human nobles that we've encountered so far have displayed such characteristics despite having
infinitely better opportunities to better themselves, and they wear such poor behaviour with pride. (Apparently acting useless and common doesn't make one useless or common as long as one has the blood to make up for it.) If having noble blood is all it takes to be a noble (as it seems to be for humans), then the Dalish have that down pat.[/quote]
They're noble by virtue of their ownership of land, armies, and estates. Dalish lack in those departments.[/quote]On behaviour, different countries and cultures (and time periods) have different standards for how they think their nobles should behave. Holding human standards of nobility to elven nobility and saying they fail at being nobles just because they don't behave like humans think their nobles ought to is fallacious at best. Plus, just going to say it, elven culture is closer to nature than humans. While the Dalish live admittedly closer to nature than they'd ideally like, they still live by their own standards better than humans. But hey, humans don't value it, therefore it has inherently no value at all, right? (Ethnocentricity, anyone?) [/quote]
Elven nobles aren't even recognized by other elves. City elves certainly don't consider Dalish to be their lords, and the Dalish themselves seem to hardly get along.[quote]Thedosian Elves, a
not moral, decent creatures of legend. They are paupers, slaves, prostitutes, and bandits who depend on humanity for their survival by any means. Even the Dalish are lowly things that must hide and cower, hunting innocent humans just to get by and to feed their delusions of grandure. [/quote]
[/quote]You say this like every elf, everywhere, no matter where they're from or what they do in life, all share these characteristics without variation or exception. None of them are moral, none of them are anything besides paupers, slaves, prostitutes and bandits (even though we've seen elves that fit other descriptions), the Dalish have nothing better to do than hunt poow widdwe innocent humans because dey're just dat evul (never mind that humans do the exact same thing back to them if given half the chance) et cetera.[/quote]
That maybe the case, but the Elves are almost incapable on expanding beyond their current state. City Elves are still poor, and Dalish Elves are still exiles.[quote]Arlathan is gone. Elvhenan is dead. This is the setting of Thedas, and that is what it shall be.[/quote]
[/quote]And no one in Thedas has ever been able to turn their luck around or discover ancient ruins or thaigs that had long since been lost or forgotten. The afforementioned nobles that lost their wealth, lands and titles? Gone forever! The Circles mages that live under Chantry rule? Oppressed forever! The Urn of Sacred Ashes? Myth! The Anvil of the Void? Buried forever!
You get the idea.[/quote]
Arlathan was swallowed, along with nearly every trace of Elvhenan. Like I said, I like to think that the city in the Eluvian is in fact Arlathan, but I"m not holding my breath.
My responses are in itailics.
Modifié par Jademoon121, 28 juillet 2012 - 12:00 .
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. I hope not, tell him i'm sorry and things will get better and give him a hug from me 
. His sacrifice will be rewarded in heaven 
. If you even read stories about elves you would know they are not all beautiful and powerful; they are not Gods. They bleed and age and die, and alot of times bad things happen to them like everybody else. If you think Tolkien elves and all the rest are perfect you clearly didn't read the books hard enough.
