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[Sealy]

Lord Athena wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...


 

I disagree they are merely giving their opinion and it shows a lack of actually listening to others in debates to resort to calling someone stupid just because they don't agree with you, it also destroys the how serious people can take your own arguments.


[/quote

Actually listening to others? wow, how can you expect people to agree with your debates when others are also name calling and at the same time quoting that they are wrong and insulting every fantasy genre just so you can say Bioware elves are unique. Me and some of the others are just voicing our opinions as well. So don't act as if your a saint and preach whats right and wrong to me.

I'm sure name calling people "child" and "d**k riding hard" and telling people they should go and read wikipedia and research before making yourself "stupid" and studing the basis of medieval studies before posting is pretty offence too.

Why you think I snap so easily when you guys say things like that? If you don't want me to insult you don't to it to me and show some respect to other fantasy genres instead calling them generic, boring, illusion, parody, fake, bad copies. How can I listen to someone that name calls other great fantasy works? Seriously think about that before you start pointing a finger, look at yourself first and tell me your not guilty? 

What? To be honest I haven't read every post but somene called you a "d**k riding hard" thats unkind... and doesn't make sense. I don't know how to respond to this post and so I'll just reiterate what you seemed to have missed. I agree that elves could use a revamp, I don't think there is any problem wanting to want attractive elves since Bioware have said that elves are attractive.  I haven't called any fantasy genres generic. I love elves and their Tolkien lore. So... *looks at self* Uhhh, not guilty?

 

Lord Athena wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...


I am not saying your a bad person, I am saying that name calling should really be a last resort in any intelligent conversation. I mean we're all aldults here (I think), have access to a vast vocabulary and the ability to agree to disagree. Most of the time... unless someone is calling out one of the character I love, or thinks about being mean about a character I love. Or thinks about thinking about it! Aaarrrgg! *hulk smash* You're all so dumb!

"aldults" are you sure you have access to a vast vocabulary? Lol I'm sorry i'am being a grammar **** and I make mistakes too, but I had too do it. It was too ironic not to...... Forgive me......

 Having access to a vast vocabulary doesn't mean I don't spell words incorrectly. I don't spell check, I'm lazy. I'm a sad excuse as an english student. truely I don't know how I pass any classes. I suppose I'll forgive you, to grammar **** is only human. But God, he may never forgive you... he hates it when people correct me... I'll see if I can intervene on your behalf.

Modifié par Fleshdress, 31 juillet 2012 - 05:24 .

[Huntress]

@ Alexandrine Delassixe:

Now lets hit DA lore:

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Elves

A humanoid race, elves are typically shorter than their human companions and have a slender, lithe build and pointed ears.

Long ago, the elves were the dominant race on Thedas, and had lived in a civilization based on nature and magic.

 Elves of Thedas live no longer than humans, but elven legends state that this was not always the case. Once, they say, they were an immortal and magically talented race that lived in harmony with the natural world and followed the elven pantheon. The first shemlen (a term meaning "quick children" that was used by the ancient elves to describe the humans and denote their shorter lives they encountered were tribals who came south from Par Vollen.

The ancient elves grew friendly with humans, but soon discovered that breeding with humans produced only human babies, while exposure to the "quick children" caused the elves to quicken themselves. For the first time, elves began to age and die.

Though overall treatment varies kingdom to kingdom, city elves are universally held as second-class citizens. Elves are unable to join most legal organizations like the Chantry, and the law often shows a blind eye to their woes. Slavery of elves is still legal in the Tevinter Imperium and there's a lucrative demand for elven slaves along with servants for nobles. They are often seen as beautiful by humans despite their low status.


In DA2 elves are everything but Beautiful.

Modifié par Huntress, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:21 .

[Lord Athena]

Fleshdress wrote...


What? To be honest I haven't read every post but somene called you a "d**k riding hard" thats unkind... and doesn't make sense. I don't know how to respond to this post and so I'll just reiterate what you seemed to have missed. I agree that elves could use a revamp, I don't think there is any problem wanting to want attractive elves since Bioware have said that elves are attractive.  I haven't called any fantasy genres generic. I love elves and their Tolkien lore. So... *looks at self* Uhhh, not guilty?

 

It was something like "your d**k riding hard and you should take a rest honey" I rather not bring that up, he was just being a very sick person and he did the same to Faerunner I think. Thank God he's not still on this forum anymore.
:innocent:Anyway i'm still not 100% innocent and I have said really bad things on this forum that I hope people never read and it cost me a ban from Chris Priestly. I also tried to get him to join the discussion but he rather just read and ban people, but I guess thats his job. We will just have to wait and see....

Yes I know you haven't but the list of names I mentioned especially Jademoon121 did and at the same time said he liked them and read the books? Yet he calls them those nasty names and responds to hate if I mention them. I want the majority of elves to at least look normal and have beauty and a few that have given up hope and have fallen victim to grief and depression, which is the worst way an elf can slowly die and age. 

 Having access to a vast vocabulary doesn't mean I don't spell words incorrectly. I don't spell check, I'm lazy. I'm a sad excuse as an english student. truely I don't know how I pass any classes. I suppose I'll forgive you, to grammar **** is only human. But God, he may never forgive you... he hates it when people correct me... I'll see if I can intervene on your behalf.

 Thank you for your great generosity, i'am forever in your debet, kind sir.

Modifié par Lord Athena, 31 juillet 2012 - 06:12 .

[Lord Athena]

Huntress wrote...

@ Alexandrine Delassixe:

Now lets hit DA lore:

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Elves

A humanoid race, elves are typically shorter than their human companions and have a slender, lithe build and pointed ears.

Long ago, the elves were the dominant race on Thedas, and had lived in a civilization based on nature and magic.

 Elves of Thedas live no longer than humans, but elven legends state that this was not always the case. Once, they say, they were an immortal and magically talented race that lived in harmony with the natural world and followed the elven pantheon. The first shemlen (a term meaning "quick children" that was used by the ancient elves to describe the humans and denote their shorter lives they encountered were tribals who came south from Par Vollen.

The ancient elves grew friendly with humans, but soon discovered that breeding with humans produced only human babies, while exposure to the "quick children" caused the elves to quicken themselves. For the first time, elves began to age and die.

Though overall treatment varies kingdom to kingdom, city elves are universally held as second-class citizens. Elves are unable to join most legal organizations like the Chantry, and the law often shows a blind eye to their woes. Slavery of elves is still legal in the Tevinter Imperium and there's a lucrative demand for elven slaves along with servants for nobles. They are often seen as beautiful by humans despite their low status.


In DA2 elves are everything but Beautiful.

Thanks Huntress. If Bioware want different races then they should have made sure that their lore rules matched that change. They didn't and now its a right mess.

Bioware and it's artists can whine all they want about artistic freedom and change. But if you want to be an artist you have to follow the rules of your own lore and what the buyer wants.

I'm an illustrator and even I know that. I can't tell my buyer to jump off a bridge because "it's my story, my art" and "my game" he would sack me.

And when I buy games i'm the boss for a change, I tell Bioware what I want to see. I'm the commissioner and if my artist tells me no we won't do that, there will be no payment because they failed to meet my standards. It's harsh but so is life and it's as simple as that.

Modifié par Lord Athena, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:09 .

[Lord Athena]

A Bethesda Wood elf that had a makeover with simple mods to look a little less alien. Still isn't perfect, because even the humans don't look like real men and woman but at least they tried.

If I want to play something different i'll play as an evil orc or wraith not turn the folklore into a mirror image of itself.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Huntress wrote...

@ Alexandrine Delassixe:

Now lets hit DA lore:

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Elves

A humanoid race, elves are typically shorter than their human companions and have a slender, lithe build and pointed ears.

Long ago, the elves were the dominant race on Thedas, and had lived in a civilization based on nature and magic.

 Elves of Thedas live no longer than humans, but elven legends state that this was not always the case. Once, they say, they were an immortal and magically talented race that lived in harmony with the natural world and followed the elven pantheon. The first shemlen (a term meaning "quick children" that was used by the ancient elves to describe the humans and denote their shorter lives they encountered were tribals who came south from Par Vollen.

The ancient elves grew friendly with humans, but soon discovered that breeding with humans produced only human babies, while exposure to the "quick children" caused the elves to quicken themselves. For the first time, elves began to age and die.

Though overall treatment varies kingdom to kingdom, city elves are universally held as second-class citizens. Elves are unable to join most legal organizations like the Chantry, and the law often shows a blind eye to their woes. Slavery of elves is still legal in the Tevinter Imperium and there's a lucrative demand for elven slaves along with servants for nobles. They are often seen as beautiful by humans despite their low status.


In DA2 elves are everything but Beautiful.

I don't see how the DA2 design contradicts any of that. Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think plenty of the elves in DA2 are beautiful and it will be interesting to see what Bio will do with character design when they don't need to rush the game.

[Lord Athena]

And the Dunedain are similar to the Dalish in the concept that both lost all their kingdoms and their bloodline diminished.

The Dunedain's first kingdom was Numenor but it was destroyed, then they created two great kingdoms; Arnor and Gondor. Gondor started to marry into lesser men and so their bloodlines diminished and their was no longer any pure blood Numenoreans. Arnor and it's kingdoms remained pure but fell to the Witch King Of Angmar and the remaining Dunedains became exiled wanderers and married into lesser races of man.

Same for the Dalish in the concept that they have lost what makes them elves and their kingdoms.

Ok i'm just going off topic, heres a pic of a bad human elf hunter that has captured an elf.



So you see that the enslaved elf thing has been done before, people just haven't noticed it yet.

[Maclimes]

Huntress wrote...

A humanoid race, elves are typically shorter than their human companions and have a slender, lithe build and pointed ears.

Why is the humanoid part bolded? Humanoid means one head, two arms, two legs. Human-shaped. It refers to basic bone structure and layout (as well as a generally upright stance and opposable thumbs).

Orcs, Trolls, Giants, Dwarves, DA2 Elves, DAO Elves, Skyrim Elves, Klingons, Khajit ....

ALL of those are "humanoid".

Mermaids, for example, are NOT. Even though they are often presented with very "normal" human facial structure and asthetics, they are not humanoid, because they lack legs.

WORD OF THE DAY: HUMANOID

[addiction21]

Cutlasskiwi wrote...

I don't see how the DA2 design contradicts any of that. Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think plenty of the elves in DA2 are beautiful and it will be interesting to see what Bio will do with character design when they don't need to rush the game.

Well that appears to be some perples real issue. The see that phrase "Humans find them attractive/beautiful" and automatically assume it must conform to their standards of attractiveness and beauty as if its some mandate from heaven or some factual thing.
Like its just a silly to believe every "fictional" humanbeing in Thedas has the same exact prefrences for beauty

maybe that came out a little more harsh then I ment but then again after going thru the last half a dozen pages I have no more interest in a thread since theres no actual discussion. Just a couple of people repeating themselves.

Modifié par addiction21, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:46 .

[Lord Athena]

Cutlasskiwi wrote...


I don't see how the DA2 design contradicts any of that. Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think plenty of the elves in DA2 are beautiful and it will be interesting to see what Bio will do with character design when they don't need to rush the game.

Nice to see a familiar face!

 :sick:wow you Bioware fans breed like bactria, but don't worry because i'm the cure 

I have seen you before if i'am right? I have a big list of names of biased Bioware royal fans that keep ignoring the Bioware folklore. Film directors do the same thing to writer's books as well and i'm sick of it. You know it and I know it so stop playing the ignorant person.

"beauty is in the eye of the beholder" - Yeah thats nice, so you walk around the farms and say your a beautiful farm animal? And you also get really solid when you see a goblin too because we are all beautiful in are own way right? There is beauty and there is beast and something inbetween "You can't have your cake and eat it." so please give up with that total nonsense.

Modifié par Lord Athena, 31 juillet 2012 - 07:58 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

Lord Athena wrote...

Cutlasskiwi wrote...


I don't see how the DA2 design contradicts any of that. Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think plenty of the elves in DA2 are beautiful and it will be interesting to see what Bio will do with character design when they don't need to rush the game.

Nice to see a familiar face!

 :sick:wow you Bioware fans breed like bactria, but don't worry because i'm the cure 

I have seen you before if i'am right? I have a big list of names of biased Bioware royal fans that keep ignoring the Bioware folklore. Film directors do the same thing to writer's books as well and i'm sick of it. You know it and I know it so stop playing the ignorant person.

Yeah I've comment about the elves before.

I'm not ignoring 'BioWare's folklore'. I am simply stating my opinion, that I don't see how the DA2 design contradicts the established lore. But please, explain how that makes me ignorant and biased. No really, please do because I really want to hear that explanation.

"beauty is in the eye of the beholder" - Yeah thats nice, so you walk around the farms and say your a beautiful farm animal? And you also get really solid when you see a goblin too because we are all beautiful in are own way right? There is beauty and there is beast and something inbetween 

You missed my point but I'll make it again. Not everyone will find the exact same things beautiful.

"You can't have your cake and eat it." so please give up with that total nonsense.

What? What nonsense?

[Lord Athena]

addiction21 wrote...

Cutlasskiwi wrote...

I don't see how the DA2 design contradicts any of that. Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think plenty of the elves in DA2 are beautiful and it will be interesting to see what Bio will do with character design when they don't need to rush the game.

Well that appears to be some perples real issue. The see that phrase "Humans find them attractive/beautiful" and automatically assume it must conform to their standards of attractiveness and beauty as if its some mandate from heaven or some factual thing.
Like its just a silly to believe every "fictional" humanbeing in Thedas has the same exact prefrences for beauty

maybe that came out a little more harsh then I ment but then again after going thru the last half a dozen pages I have no more interest in a thread since theres no actual discussion. Just a couple of people repeating themselves.

You do know guys that beastiality is illegal right? Because yes it does matter they look humanoid normal people. Do humans walk around saying "Oh boy! that little dog looks nice.... licks lips...."? Well do they? If you want to roleplay as a panda/cow go play WOW or TERA Online. Because you are clearly playing the wrong game for that kind of stuff your talking about.

"A couple of people repeating themselves?" Oh sorry how rude let's just change our views and agree with you? That would defeat the whole purpose of a debate you silly person. If politicians acted like that were would we be?

And the irony coming from the same guys I have seen on page 10-20 saying how Bioware is unique? When are you going to get tired of that same narrow minded view? You can repeat that a thousand times but your still abusing that poor words meaning to death.

And I have no more intrest in you guys saying the same argument for being right.

"silly to believe every "fictional" human being in Thedas has the same exact prefrences for beauty" I think its pretty sick myself that a human fictional or not could find a creature not even humanoid to be beautiful. If I see a human in any fiction finding a animal beast attractive I will say it is animal molestation... now i'm going to be sick 

Modifié par Lord Athena, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:25 .

[Atakuma]

Elves should look like fish people in DA3, just for the hell of it.

[Face of Evil]

I prefer DA2's elves. Merrill looks much prettier in DA2 than her DAO incarnation.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:28 .

[Maclimes]

Lord Athena wrote...

I think its pretty sick myself that a human fictional or not could find a creature not even humanoid to be beautiful. 

DA2 Elves ARE humanoid. Humanoid means "having two arms, two legs, and a head, in a bipedal shape and stance, often with opposable thumbs".

Klingons from Star Trek are humanoid.
Khajit from Skyrim are humanoid.
Orcs from Lord of the Rings are humanoid.
Bugs Bunny is humanoid.
DA2 Elves are humanoid.

Mermaids, however they may be presented, are NOT humanoid, because they lack legs and the bipedal shape.

Modifié par Maclimes, 31 juillet 2012 - 08:36 .

[Lord Athena]

Yeah I've comment about the elves before.

I'm not ignoring 'BioWare's folklore'. I am simply stating my opinion, that I don't see how the DA2 design contradicts the established lore. But please, explain how that makes me ignorant and biased. No really, please do because I really want to hear that explanation.
 

Yes you are and now your using the "beauty is what people make it" as an excuse for the elves to look like freaks. And I want to know why you call Bioware elves are unique? And i'm still waiting for that explanation....

"You missed my point but I'll make it again. Not everyone will find the exact same things beautiful."

No I didn't. Yes I know people find ugly things attractive, so does that justify and entire race to look ugly?

"You can't have your cake and eat it." so please give up with that total nonsense.

What? What nonsense? 

That "beauty is in the eye....." that nonsence. I'm sorry but looking at an animal is not attractive, it's cute but not attractive and looking like a bad super model is not beauty or cute, it's messed up.

Modifié par Lord Athena, 01 août 2012 - 01:24 .

[Lord Athena]

Maclimes wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...

I think its pretty sick myself that a human fictional or not could find a creature not even humanoid to be beautiful. 

DA2 Elves ARE humanoid. Humanoid means "having two arms, two legs, and a head, in a bipedal shape and stance, often with opposable thumbs".

Klingons from Star Trek are humanoid.
Khajit from Skyrim are humanoid.
Orcs from Lord of the Rings are humanoid.
Bugs Bunny is humanoid.
DA2 Elves are humanoid.

Mermaids, however they may be presented, are NOT humanoid, because they lack legs and the bipedal shape.

Opps I mean't  a cross between a farm animal and a bad super model, not humanoid. 

[Face of Evil]

Maclimes wrote...

DA2 Elves ARE humanoid. Humanoid means "having two arms, two legs, and a head, in a bipedal shape and stance, often with opposable thumbs".

Technically speaking, humanoid refers to anything with a human-like shape. Golems are humanoid. Darkspawn are humanoid.

[Maclimes]

Face of Evil wrote...

Maclimes wrote...

DA2 Elves ARE humanoid. Humanoid means "having two arms, two legs, and a head, in a bipedal shape and stance, often with opposable thumbs".

Technically speaking, humanoid refers to anything with a human-like shape. Golems are humanoid. Darkspawn are humanoid.

Correct on Darkspawn. Although the word "humanoid" was originally used by paleontologists to refer to bone structure, so I'm not sure if golems would apply or not, as they have no bones. (The meaning has likely shifted a bit over the years, though.)

[Lord Athena]

Filament wrote...

Lord Athena wrote...

I have seen you before if i'am right? I have a big list of names of biased Bioware royal fans that keep ignoring the Bioware folklore. Film directors do the same thing to writer's books as well and i'm sick of it. You know it and I know it so stop playing the ignorant person.

Watch out, she's got a list. Better not disagree with her or she'll put you on it too.

 Thats it your on my naughty list too!

[addiction21]

Lord Athena wrote...

You do know guys that beastiality is illegal right? Because yes it does matter they look humanoid normal people. Do humans walk around saying "Oh boy! that little dog looks nice.... licks lips...."? Well do they? If you want to roleplay as a panda/cow go play WOW or TERA Online. Because you are clearly playing the wrong game for that kind of stuff your talking about.

"A couple of people repeating themselves?" Oh sorry how rude let's just change our views and agree with you? That would defeat the whole purpose of a debate you silly person. If politicians acted like that were would we be?

And the irony coming from the same guys I have seen on page 10-20 saying how Bioware is unique? When are you going to get tired of that same narrow minded view? You can repeat that a thousand times but your still abusing that poor words meaning to death.

And I have no more intrest in you guys saying the same argument for being right.

"silly to believe every "fictional" human being in Thedas has the same exact prefrences for beauty" I think its pretty sick myself that a human fictional or not could find a creature not even humanoid to be beautiful. If I see a human in any fiction finding a animal beast attractive I will say it is animal molestation... now i'm going to be sick 

What the hell does beastility even come in? What the hell are you even talking about?
Do you find every single person attractive? Imple question yes or no.

No a debate is more then you declaring you are correct and then talking about bestiality as a strawman to distract from the point you can not argue against.

The "irony"  is I have never posted in this thread so I am not sure how I could of said anything at all on pages 10-20.

[Lord Athena]

"Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder""WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH! It’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. You can't use that on people. What if you’re a little girl who is probably a little chubby? And you look into a mirror and you say to yourself, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Then that means I’m not beautiful to anyone but my family. That is the STUPIDEST saying ever."

This is just a quote from another person and not my words. I have to agree with him.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Lord Athena wrote...

Cutlasskiwi wrote...

Yeah I've comment about the elves before.

I'm not ignoring 'BioWare's folklore'. I am simply stating my opinion, that I don't see how the DA2 design contradicts the established lore. But please, explain how that makes me ignorant and biased. No really, please do because I really want to hear that explanation. 

 

Yes you are and now your using the "beauty is what people make it" as an excuse for the elves to look like freaks. And I want to know why you call Bioware elves are unique? And i'm still waiting for that explanation....

You think they look like freaks, I don't. Just because you say they look like freaks does not mean that is true for everyone else. It does not make my opinion invalid.

And I didn't call BioWare's elves unique. But you didn't explain how my opinion makes me ignorant and biased and I still want to know that.

Lord Athena wrote...

Cutlasskiwi wrote...

You missed my point but I'll make it again. Not everyone will find the exact same things beautiful."

No I didn't. Yes I know people find ugly things attractive, so does that justify and entire race to look ugly?

But it's not an accepted fact that the whole race looks ugly.

Lord Athena wrote...

That "beauty is in the eye....." that nonsence. I'm sorry but looking at an animal is not attractive, it's cute but not attractive and looking like a bad super model is not beauty or cute, it's messed up.

I get it, you hate the DA2 elves. I like them and that's not messed up.

Also, I said beauty not attractive. Where the hell did the bestiality come from?! Don't know how you made that leap.  Plenty of things can be beautiful without me being attracted to them. My aunt bought a horse a while back and she's beautiful. The painting my friend just finished is beautiful. The speech my cousin held at out grandpas birthday was beautiful. I'm attracted to none of the things I just listed but they are all beautiful. But this is in no way related to the elves anymore..

[EpicBoot2daFace]

It's called an opinion, Lord Athena. It just so happens people are entitled to them. Try to keep in mind that this is a forum for discussion of the game. All of us disagree with each other on one thing or another. But that doesn't give you the right to start making nasty remarks towards people you disagree with.

In case you missed it -------------> site rules.