730 réponses à ce sujet

[Sealy]

Tsk, this argument is getting ridculous and I don't even know where the bestiality thing is coming from, but I am getting some weird flashbacks to the Fenris thread getting a little on the crazy side of sanity a while back.

The race as a whole isn't hidious, and as long as I can feel vicarious attraction to my LI through Hawke I could really care less about the other elves. Merrill was very pretty. Her neck was sort of weird but we can chalk that up to a rushed game. Fenris, once I adjusted to the elf revamp was damn hot imho. Zevran? Well thats a cross between "This isn't the elf I remember romancing! What did you dooooo?" and never getting to see him for more then a five minute quest so there really isn't much of an opportunity to reastablish what you found attractive about him in the first place.

Now I know that what is attractive to me isn't going to be attractive to the person next to me, but I am going to go out on a limb here and say a majority of people found the elves in DA2 unattractive hence the popularity of bashing them through internet meme's. Sure the elven design in DA2 didn't hurt anyones gaming experience as far as I know, it didn't add to it either and as some of us a hoping to get "elf" back as a playable race is DA3 a revamp to bring back some (not all) of their classical beauty traits wouldn't go amiss. As we learned with ME3 debacle it may not always help one hundred percent to make fans happy but, Bioware does a bit of catering to it's fans when the majority speaks and it never hurts to.

Modifié par Fleshdress, 31 juillet 2012 - 10:50 .

[Lord Athena]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

It's called an opinion, Lord Athena. It just so happens people are entitled to them. Try to keep in mind that this is a forum for discussion of the game. All of us disagree with each other on one thing or another. But that doesn't give you the right to start making nasty remarks towards people you disagree with.

In case you missed it -------------> site rules.

In case you missed it that applies to you as well. Don't link the rules when you have no intent to follow them as well. Try to remind yourself that not me and stop being a forum ****, thats Bioware's job not yours. 

People are entitled to speak their mind, but not to start name calling others which clearly some of you did! I admit I snaped but some of your so called "people" provoked it further by starting the name calling. Do I have to repeat and quote what most of you said? Or will you finally drop it and move on?

Doesn't give me the right to start making nasty remarks? Have you blindly forgotten what most of your side argument said as well? I think calling someone a "fool" is hardly a capital offence compared to your side agruments nasty remarks. Seriously drop it EpicBoot2daFace! Because i'm starting to feel like kicking you right now and I don't like feeling like that, so can you please shut up and get back on topic or don't say anything at all.

Right now your dragging something that was dead a couple of hours ago or do you feel the need to report me, do it if it will shut you up. Your side of the discussions are no saints either and they know who they are! They should be a shamed of the kind of language they used.

Now can we please move on? I swear I won't say the word "idiot" as long as I can use the word stupid  fine I won't use that word either. You all sound like my mother.....
I like being an oath breaker though so be warned 

[esper]

Lord Athena wrote...

"Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder""WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH! It’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. You can't use that on people. What if you’re a little girl who is probably a little chubby? And you look into a mirror and you say to yourself, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? Then that means I’m not beautiful to anyone but my family. That is the STUPIDEST saying ever."

This is just a quote from another person and not my words. I have to agree with him.

No that is actually not bull****. You have to understand that beauty is a subjective word. I think that the elves in da2 are beutifull. At the very least the elves that they had care for making.
Orana is not beutifull, but as a starved and slaver from Tevinter, that is fully understandable.

The little chubby girl might be only beutifull in her family eyes, she might also be beatuifull in her own eyes, she might be beutifull in her friends eyes and in her lover's eyes, but she might also be ugly in the eyes of the bully that see only her faults. Beutay is subjective and the people of Fereldan grew up with elves for them the elves might be exotic beitufull, like for those people in our real world who find other ethnetices attractive for being different that usual (just as there are those who find other ethnetices unattrative for being different and prefer those they now.)

Beutay and attractiveness are and will always be subjective and in the eye of the beholder. I like the da2 elves for not being like the one in tolkien. It didn't see what was so great about the da:o elves.

-Put me on a list or not, I don't care.

Modifié par esper, 01 août 2012 - 12:04 .

[Lord Athena]

addiction21 wrote...


What the hell does beastility even come in? What the hell are you even talking about?
Do you find every single person attractive? Imple question yes or no.

Because most of you think that the elves being farm animals is attractive. Thats why I said that, I don't understand people who think looking like some sort of goat would be attractive to anyone who calls himself human. It's just plain wrong.

No I don't find everybody attractive, your point? The fact is that the DA humans find them attractive enough to breed with. I'm sure that requires them to be almost similar in design if so many would think to mate with another race rather than their own, maybe because they are a better versions of their own wives/husbands back at home. Have you watched "Species"? Kind of like that, even though she really looks like a scary alien under the disguise.

If you look at other aliens you can see that most of the ones that people find attractive have a human face. 

No a debate is more then you declaring you are correct and then talking about bestiality as a strawman to distract from the point you can not argue against.

I never declared myself correct i'm just speaking my opinion just like you are. I said that because I assumed that you thought looking like a goat/cow elf was attractive and just stated races looking like a farm animal reminded me of. WOW does that and so does TERA Online. No it's not a distraction, it's the truth and sometimes it hurts.



"A picture says a thousand words" Well this expresses my point  of what was on my mind. And if elves lead to an animal design instead of a more human one, i'm running! I'm sure they won't look like a Panda, but they are starting to look like goats/cows. Thats what I meant, so my opinion on this is still vaild. 

The "irony"  is I have never posted in this thread so I am not sure how I could of said anything at all on pages 10-20.

(hits facepalm) I was not referring to you personally I said people like you. Just don't expect people to change their views because you got tired of looking at their side of the discussion.

[Lord Athena]

esper wrote...


No that is actually not bull****. You have to understand that beauty is a subjective word. I think that the elves in da2 are beutifull. At the very least the elves that they had care for making.
Orana is not beutifull, but as a starved and slaver from Tevinter, that is fully understandable.

The little chubby girl might be only beutifull in her family eyes, she might also be beatuifull in her own eyes, she might be beutifull in her friends eyes and in her lover's eyes, but she might also be ugly in the eyes of the bully that see only her faults. Beutay is subjective and the people of Fereldan grew up with elves for them the elves might be exotic beitufull, like for those people in our real world who find other ethnetices attractive for being different that usual (just as there are those who find other ethnetices unattrative for being different and prefer those they now.)

Beutay and attractiveness are and will always be subjective and in the eye of the beholder. I like the da2 elves for not being like the one in tolkien. It didn't see what was so great about the da:o elves.

-Put me on a list or not, I don't care.

No I won't put you on my list, because your the first person that hasn't turned me into psychotic diva. I think that being fat is still not beautiful, the human body shoudn't be that way and neither is being skinny. As far as facial structure is concerned I think that is an opinion on what people find more eye pleasing. The point is they still need to almost pass as having a proper human structure without messing it up. If you want a triangular elf face then at least do it correctly.
I have seen people with more triangular faces and they don't look like that 

[Lord Athena]

Fleshdress wrote...

Tsk, this argument is getting ridculous and I don't even know where the bestiality thing is coming from, but I am getting some weird flashbacks to the Fenris thread getting a little on the crazy side of sanity a while back.

The race as a whole isn't hidious, and as long as I can feel vicarious attraction to my LI through Hawke I could really care less about the other elves. Merrill was very pretty. Her neck was sort of weird but we can chalk that up to a rushed game. Fenris, once I adjusted to the elf revamp was damn hot imho. Zevran? Well thats a cross between "This isn't the elf I remember romancing! What did you dooooo?" and never getting to see him for more then a five minute quest so there really isn't much of an opportunity to reastablish what you found attractive about him in the first place.

Now I know that what is attractive to me isn't going to be attractive to the person next to me, but I am going to go out on a limb here and say a majority of people found the elves in DA2 unattractive hence the popularity of bashing them through internet meme's. Sure the elven design in DA2 didn't hurt anyones gaming experience as far as I know, it didn't add to it either and as some of us a hoping to get "elf" back as a playable race is DA3 a revamp to bring back some (not all) of their classical beauty traits wouldn't go amiss. As we learned with ME3 debacle it may not always help one hundred percent to make fans happy but, Bioware does a bit of catering to it's fans when the majority speaks and it never hurts to.

The bestiality thing came to me after thinking about all the people saying that the goat/cow versions of the elves were attractive. And it reminded me of game developers that did that weird thing, you don't understand.... playing argonian, khajiit and Panda races may sound fun, but after you read the ingame stories of how they tricked humans or elves into mating with them made me vomit my dinner everytime I read it or saw it.... Now i'm having flashbacks.....

Yes I like bashing!  and you can count  on me not stopping until they return to the darkness where they belong or DA3 proves me wrong. 

If you want to make them more "unique" (may God strike me down for miss using the words meaning) then you can play around with the custom options until they look like deformed monsters and we can get nice presets to play around with.

[Lord Athena]

Great now i'm going to have bad dreams tonight..... Pedo-animals is nasty and wrong....

[Lord Athena]

Cutlasskiwi wrote....

You think they look like freaks, I don't. Just because you say they look like freaks does not mean that is true for everyone else. It does not make my opinion invalid.

I get it you have your weird kicks of what attractive is for elves.

But it's not an accepted fact that the whole race looks ugly.

Tell that to the majority of us that are bashing and hating the DA2 elves. Somebody even quoted on here that even the author of DA has no love for the DA2 elves. 

I get it, you hate the DA2 elves. I like them and that's not messed up.

 Oh you just got that? I thought it was pretty obvious that i'm on the debate side "for change" not against it like you are.
They are not messed up if you want a Dobbey elf that is.... 

Also, I said beauty not attractive. Where the hell did the bestiality come from?! Don't know how you made that leap. 

Well the humans find them attractive as in "want to mate and make hot love", so I don't think the beauty as you see is even relevant because you view it as a non-sexual way. But the fact is the humans have these beings as sex toys and I don't think letting them look as a horse, goat, cow or any other animal to be realistic.

Read harder i'm not your mummy. 

Plenty of things can be beautiful without me being attracted to them. My aunt bought a horse a while back and she's beautiful. The painting my friend just finished is beautiful. The speech my cousin held at out grandpas birthday was beautiful. I'm attracted to none of the things I just listed but they are all beautiful. But this is in no way related to the elves anymore..

I get your point in beauty, i'm talking about the sexual beauty.

[TEWR]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
 I see all sensible discourse went out the window with a set of concrete blocks chained to its feet, causing it to fall towards the depths of Oblivion.

Still holds true. In fact, now sensible discourse is being tortured by demonic beings intent on saying anyone with a different opinion is wrong.

Poor sensible discourse. We must save it! I hereby authorize the rescue of sensible discourse from the depths of Oblivion! Join me in my crusade!

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I hereby authorize the rescue of sensible discourse from the depths of Oblivion!

Oblivion? Which plane of Oblivion, Ethereal?

As for the discussion about elves, I thought Merrill was handled well. In contrast, I thought Zevran was not handled well. Many of the elves seemed to get minimal effort in their appearance, which came across as being shoddy.

[wsandista]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Poor sensible discourse. We must save it! I hereby authorize the rescue of sensible discourse from the depths of Oblivion! Join me in my crusade!

I'll go search for it in the Soul Carin.

BTW does anyone know when Dawnguard gets released on PC?

Modifié par wsandista, 01 août 2012 - 03:48 .

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Oblivion? Which plane of Oblivion, Ethereal?

Not an Elder Scrolls type of Oblivion. 'Tis the type of Oblivion the video game series I've been outlining in my head and on Word would have.

Now all I need is a crapton of money and a job at a game development studio. Also, people to help.

But I'm lacking on all fronts

wsandista wrote...

BTW does anyone know when Dawnguard gets released on PC?

Wasn't it supposed to be released alongside the PS3 version a few days ago?

[esper]

Lord Athena wrote...

esper wrote...


No that is actually not bull****. You have to understand that beauty is a subjective word. I think that the elves in da2 are beutifull. At the very least the elves that they had care for making.
Orana is not beutifull, but as a starved and slaver from Tevinter, that is fully understandable.

The little chubby girl might be only beutifull in her family eyes, she might also be beatuifull in her own eyes, she might be beutifull in her friends eyes and in her lover's eyes, but she might also be ugly in the eyes of the bully that see only her faults. Beutay is subjective and the people of Fereldan grew up with elves for them the elves might be exotic beitufull, like for those people in our real world who find other ethnetices attractive for being different that usual (just as there are those who find other ethnetices unattrative for being different and prefer those they now.)

Beutay and attractiveness are and will always be subjective and in the eye of the beholder. I like the da2 elves for not being like the one in tolkien. It didn't see what was so great about the da:o elves.

-Put me on a list or not, I don't care.

No I won't put you on my list, because your the first person that hasn't turned me into psychotic diva. I think that being fat is still not beautiful, the human body shoudn't be that way and neither is being skinny. As far as facial structure is concerned I think that is an opinion on what people find more eye pleasing. The point is they still need to almost pass as having a proper human structure without messing it up. If you want a triangular elf face then at least do it correctly.
I have seen people with more triangular faces and they don't look like that 

Back before the greek when a lot of our societoes were and agriculture, being fat was not just conideried beitufull. It was considered the thing. Being for examples symbol of fertility for the women and for both gender a sign that you had more than enough to eat which made you powerfull and beitufull. Today the most common understanding is that to be beutifull, you must hold a weight that show you now how to take care of yourself, but it still doesn't mean that it doesn't change. It is subjective and cultural and a whole lot of other things. For the thedians the elves have always existed, thus they are calculated into how the people of thedas see  and describe beuaty, they are used to elves looking like that and there have emerged a understanding that such features are generally seen as beutifull in thedas. 

I am guessing it is the one of two thing or a mix of both, one is the exoctic beuaty thing. They doesn't look like, meaning it is different, exiting and well beutifull.

The other is much worse and comes from a long time of the elves being secondclass and abused citizien. Having power over another human tempts to abuse, sexually as well... so I  can easily see it being a long time of the elves being sexual objects in certain areas that have turned them into 'beutifull' or rather 'attractive'. Being attractive is not always a good thing.

As for the triangular face not looking like any human you have seen... That was kinda what bioware was going for.

I understand that you like tolkiens elves, the are powerfull, ethereal and magical creatures, but I think it fits DA for the elves not to be that. We don't know how Alarthan was, and to be fair not in the first Dales knew that either. We don't know if they were ever ethereal. I am thinking not. For today dales Arlathan is a myth, a glorius shadow of the greatness they think they once held, but nothing we know of in Thedas have ever held greatness without have a very ugly side as well. I rather doubt Arlathan was any different.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Nevermind....

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 02 août 2012 - 07:50 .

[LobselVith8]

wsandista wrote...

BTW does anyone know when Dawnguard gets released on PC?

No one knows. The Microsoft 30 day exclusivity time period already ran out, so it should have been released on the 26th. However, there has been no news from BGS about when it will be released, or why it is being withheld from release. There was actually a twitter message from someone at BSG saying there was no news to tell about Dawnguard - essentially, an announcement that they had no announcement to make.

Some think Todd Howard might make an announcement this Thursday (at QuakeCon) about the PS3 and PC versions of Dawnguard, but that's simply speculation.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 01 août 2012 - 12:43 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

Lord Athena wrote...

Cutlasskiwi wrote....

You think they look like freaks, I don't. Just because you say they look like freaks does not mean that is true for everyone else. It does not make my opinion invalid.

I get it you have your weird kicks of what attractive is for elves.

Eh, no? I am simply saying that just because you declare them ugly does not make it so for every person. My opinion is just as valid as yours.

Lord Athena wrote...

Cutlasskiwi wrote....
But it's not an accepted fact that the whole race looks ugly.

Tell that to the majority of us that are bashing and hating the DA2 elves. Somebody even quoted on here that even the author of DA has no love for the DA2 elves. 

That still doesn't make it an accepted fact that the whole race is ugly.

Lord Athena wrote...

Cutlasskiwi wrote....
I get it, you hate the DA2 elves. I like them and that's not messed up.

 Oh you just got that? I thought it was pretty obvious that i'm on the debate side "for change" not against it like you are.
They are not messed up if you want a Dobbey elf that is.... 

Oh for crying out loud! I didn't just get it. It has been pretty obvious since your first post. But you have to accept that there are people who are in favor of the new design and calling those people ignorant gets the discussion nowhere.

Lord Athena wrote...

Cutlasskiwi wrote....

Also, I said beauty not attractive. Where the hell did the bestiality come from?! Don't know how you made that leap. 

Well the humans find them attractive as in "want to mate and make hot love", so I don't think the beauty as you see is even relevant because you view it as a non-sexual way. But the fact is the humans have these beings as sex toys and I don't think letting them look as a horse, goat, cow or any other animal to be realistic.

Read harder i'm not your mummy. 

I don't think that they look like goats, cows or horses. That's why your comment is so jarring to me and I'm not surprised that people reacted to it.

[jillabender]

With complete respect to those who liked the appearance of the elves in DA2, I find their proportions so exaggerated that, to me, they look very cartoonish compared to the dwarves, humans, and kossith, in a way that's jarring.

I agree with what Mearall said toward the beginning of the thread about the original DA:O elf designs. I admit that those designs weren't perfect, and I can appreciate that some people might not like them, but, like Mearall, I liked the way that elves in DA:O were portrayed as having natural sex appeal. It's been more typical in fantasy fiction to portray elves as beautiful in an untouchable, otherwordly way, so, like Mearall, I found it refreshing that Bioware portrayed elves in DA:O as sexually attractive.

When I look at most of the DA2 elves, I just can't find them sexually attractive, for the same reason that I wouldn't find a person built like a six-foot Barbie doll to be sexually attractive. As Mearall wrote, sex appeal requires a degree of naturalness, and when I look at the DA2 elves, I find it hard to believe that a person could actually exist with those proportions.

But again, that's just me, and I appreciate that different people look for different things when they look at elves. I also think that the DA2 elf designs have a lot of potential – with some refinement, and maybe some changes to the art style of the game, I think that Bioware could eliminate many of the problems that I and others had with the way elves looked in DA2.

Modifié par jillabender, 04 août 2012 - 12:20 .

[Maclimes]

I can't decide if Athena is one of the most successful trolls I've ever seen, or just a genuinely crazy person.

Anyway, the origin of the "goat" comparison is the DA2 Elf's nose bridge (or lack thereof). The strange sloping nose/forehead, combined with the shape/position/size of the eyes does create a vague resemblence to a Caprid (the scientific term for goats, sheep, antelope, and similar animals, likely halla as well). However, I don't think that's enough to make claims of "bestiality".

Playboy models for years wore rabbit ears. That doesn't mean Playboy readers wanted to have sex with rabbits. Small animalistic features have been used for a long period of time to increase sex appeal. Consider also the Japanese love of girls with cat ears, or the Greek satyr, a half-goat half-man creature of lust.

This is not "bestiality". It's an appeal to the more base, primal elements of attraction.

I'm not saying I like the new elves, because I don't. But to call it "bestiality" is just ignorance.

[Lord Athena]

Eh, no? I am simply saying that just because you declare them ugly does not make it so for every person. My opinion is just as valid as yours.

Yeah I know that, a few people will find strange new things to look the best thing they have ever seen. I just tell those people to get out more, lol. And just because you guys declare them as beautiful doesn't make them so either.

That still doesn't make it an accepted fact that the whole race is ugly.

How many would it take then? Maybe a few are ok, but the rest look like monsters and i'm not the only person here that thinks that. 

Oh for crying out loud! I didn't just get it. It has been pretty obvious since your first post. But you have to accept that there are people who are in favor of the new design and calling those people ignorant gets the discussion nowhere.

 

Are you still looking me in a negative way? because I said the word "idiot" and "ignorant" hours ago. I already told one of you before to drop that or do you want me to quote all the things your side said? I knew you guys would use that against me to make me less serious about the discussion, just remember your side said alot of that and worse.

I don't think that they look like goats, cows or horses. That's why your comment is so jarring to me and I'm not surprised that people reacted to it.

Well alot of people do think they look like human goats and cows, hence why we have all those parody wallpapers about them and a forum already calling them that. wow! finally you show your true colours! I also find your comments jarring.

"i'm not surprised that some people reacted to it" - Well haters going to hate after all, when they read something they don't agree on. Didn't you guys just preach to me that all opinions are vaild and now your hating on mine? Did I ask you to read it? No! If it causes you a painful shock don't read it!

The only people reacting to my posts are the same people that I have seen since I joined the forum. And I knew you can't resist preaching your views against mine. Hence why we call it a debate! 

[jillabender]

Maclimes wrote…

Anyway, the origin of the "goat" comparison is the DA2 Elf's nose bridge (or lack thereof). The strange sloping nose/forehead, combined with the shape/position/size of the eyes does create a vague resemblence to a Caprid (the scientific term for goats, sheep, antelope, and similar animals, likely halla as well). However, I don't think that's enough to make claims of "bestiality".

Playboy models for years wore rabbit ears. That doesn't mean Playboy readers wanted to have sex with rabbits. Small animalistic features have been used for a long period of time to increase sex appeal. Consider also the Japanese love of girls with cat ears, or the Greek satyr, a half-goat half-man creature of lust.

This is not "bestiality".

I agree – I didn't like the way elves looked in DA2 either, but I don't think it's fair to accuse those who liked them of bestiality just because DA2 elves have some physical traits that we tend to associate with certain animals.

I'd also add that many of those who liked the way elves looked in DA2 liked them not because they found them sexually attractive, but for other reasons – and that's fine, even though I personally find some of those reasons a bit odd.

Modifié par jillabender, 01 août 2012 - 03:24 .

[Lord Athena]

Maclimes wrote...

I can't decide if Athena is one of the most successful trolls I've ever seen, or just a genuinely crazy person.

 So now i'm being called crazy and a troll? Yeah Athena don't you dare name call others! or you will be banned!!! Yet your doing it to me? Name calling is bad and you just broke the forum rules 2x times.

This is not "bestiality". It's an appeal to the more base, primal elements of attraction. 

Tell that to the pedo-pandas and other animal races in games then. Because looking like a goat man is not normal.

I'm not saying I like the new elves, because I don't. But to call it "bestiality" is just ignorance.

Could of fooled me? Eh, didn't you guys just preach to me the rule forums about name calling? Yet it's ok for you guys to call people ignorant? I knew you were all hypocrites! I knew it! 

:police:Maclimes, you are banned for repeated violations of the verbal morality statute and forum rules.

Modifié par Lord Athena, 01 août 2012 - 03:48 .

[Lord Athena]

I'm not a troll I just like defending my opinions as you would do the same. If you have to name call me something just call me obsessive not troll. 

Modifié par Lord Athena, 01 août 2012 - 03:55 .

[Zkyire]

@Lord_Athena

What do you expect?

You keep using phrases like "pedo" and "beastiality" when referring to people liking DA2 Elves.

And you're then shocked when people don't respond to you with respect and politeness?

[Lord Athena]

Zkyire wrote...

@Lord_Athena

What do you expect?

You keep using phrases like "pedo" and "beastiality" when referring to people liking DA2 Elves.

And you're then shocked when people don't respond to you with respect and politeness?

I expect you to follow the rules, I really want to call you names too but after you linked the forum rules about name calling you have to follow them. Make good on your threats and not contradict them! Because it makes you look like a... opps i'm doing it again.... i'm just going to say silly person...

I didn't call the DA2 elves "pedo" thats just shows your not reading and understanding at the same time. I said the other games like WOW and TERA have "pedo pandas" and other animals. 

[Lord Athena]

You know what every hater just name call me anything you want. I won't report you because unlike you i'm not a nasty snitch. I can take a beating without being a sad little baby and crying about it that the others aren't being friendly.

And Zkyire you and the others were name calling others that were liking other elves from different fantasy books and series, so why do you expect me to show yours any respect? Jademoon121 made that very clear to me so just be quiet...

Many of you said we don't want "generic", "boring", "illusion", "standard classic", "stereotype", "parody", "copies".... the list goes on and you want me to be fair to DA2 elves?

And don't say that none of you said that because alot of that came from Jademoon121 and others.

Modifié par Lord Athena, 01 août 2012 - 04:19 .