730 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir Edric]

Brockololly wrote...

Cool elves:

Looks like tattooed humans with pointy ears.

[coles4971]

Vrex_12 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Cool elves:

Looks like tattooed humans with pointy ears.

and dwarves look like short humans

your point?

get it ... 'point'? because we're talking about elves who ...

i'll shut up now 

[TEWR]

Cool elves:

Part of what makes this Elf so badass stems more from the armor he's wearing, where his sword and sheath are placed, the way he's standing, the demeanor the picture seems to convey, and long hair that I wish DA would start allowing us to have.

He looks insanely different from the Elves we see in-game in DAO. Not in terms of physical appearance, but in terms of everything else.

When you compare DAO Elves to this image, the image clearly comes out as the winner. DAO Elves can't hold a candle to this guy.

And I'd argue that given enough representation and visualization of the Elven culture in DAII -- along with tweaks to the new body design. -- Elves can look this badass.

Any time this topic comes up -- Elves were better here then in DAII -- I reference tmp's mod that made DAO Elves look like DAII Elves, with some tweaks to it.

It showed, IMO, that the design change is superior to DAO's Elves, even if the culture is very much lacking in representation and visualization.

Mearell wrote...

Maric met Fiona....

That's one of the more glaring and horrifying Elves that you see in DAII, for many reasons. The rushed nature of the game being one, clown make-up being another, and her god-awful eyes being the last.

But I wouldn't hold her up as why the design is inherently inferior now.

=============================================================================

This thread just shows how people are willing to take the best Elves from elsewhere and compare them with the worst Elves in DAII, saying that the new design is automatically a failure.

Which is unfair and does not lend itself well to any sort of rational argument.

So I'm going to post the good-looking Elves (IMO) as a counterpoint to all of the "bad-looking Elves":

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

he Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
















the new elf design actually keeps in line with the shriek design. And also, the people who say the elves look like Na'vi because of their ears need to look at where the shrieks ears are. That's more Na'vi than the elves, who aren't Na'vi-esque in my opinion.







and these are unmodded elves.

I also consider Zevran, Varania, and Orana to be among the good-looking Elves personally.

And I will point out that there are some god-awful looking Elves in DAII, some more excuseable than others.

Nyssa looked bad -- though give her a different hairstyle and she won't be so bad I think -- as did Huon. Sketch looked pretty bad, though since he was a minor cameo it's excuseable... for now.

Tomwise was bad. Some Elven NPCs that weren't the low-res furniture Elves looked bad. And so on and so forth.

[coles4971]

no way is that second elf (with the ginger hair) you quoted real

that has to be a photoshop

[Jademoon121]

I think the elves look fine; you just have to fine-tune them a bit. It's no secret that DA2 was a tad rushed; everyone looked artificial. Had they have more time to work on the elves, they'd all look pretty good.

[TEWR]

coles4971 wrote...

no way is that second elf (with the ginger hair) you quoted real

that has to be a photoshop

Which one? The one under the Merrill pic -- whose name is Athenril -- or the one that's standing to the side?

Both are real. Athenril is the better looking one under the Merrill pic. The NPC in the Viscount's Keep is a ghastly creature that should be chained in a coffin that's sent into a chasm, falls into a pit of spikes, where a river of boiling lava flows over it.

And an army of pigeons then **** in that lava river.

[blaidfiste]

Elton John is dead wrote...

GodWood wrote...

I actually liked just having elves being small, lithe humans with pointy ears.

Me too but I think BW made it clear that they aren't going back to that design. True BW can make the elves and humans look like what they want but when you get guys looking like the guys below then you really have to question BW...



 

I always look for her pic in these "change the elves" threads.  Poor Oranna, she loved papa's soup 

[Eternal Phoenix]

@The Ethereal Writer Redux

The three elves before Orinoco are ruined by their long pointy ears which stick out sideways. All the other elves you included looked good though.

The point with this thread was that if Bioware want to make elves look more unique and not like humans it will take more than just bigger and pointier ears to convey that look. Elves in the forgotten realms (at least how they're shown in art) look different from humans in their facial features and body sizes. Yet they don't have big pointy ears which proclaim, "Hey look at me! I'm an elf! trees are pretty! la~la~la!" and that's because they don't need big pointy ears to proclaim that they're different from humans.

Bioware aren't really creating anything new by using the pointy eared elf model anyways. No matter what new faces they give to the elves they will always be inspired by Tolkien's take on elves (or am I wrong in thinking he came up with the whole pointy ear and noble styled elves?) and even the lore for elves in DA has similarities with elves from Middle Earth. DA lore states that elves were once immortal and in LOTR elves are immortal still.

Personally I would have prefered Bioware to have been consistent with their own universe rather than creating such a dramatic change for the elves.

And yes there were some ugly elves in Dragon Age: Origins:

 
 
 

Now I just want to add this image to say something:

 

Zavthrin - to me - looks different from humans - like most other elves - in that his entire complexion is different. Most Dalish elves also had tattoos. For me it was these differences that made the elves look different from humans back in DA:O. Then we had the city elves which didn't have the tattoos and looked more oppressed. The point being is that differences needn't always be shown via a complete change in everything. DA:O elves did look quite human but DA2 elves - at least the good looking ones - look quite human too save for the eyes.

I think the major problem with DA2 elves is the facial construction and some of the elves have very big ears long ears that stick out sideways. It almost makes them look cartoonish and like a farce. Again however I think some of the poor designs are down to rush development and I think Dragon Age 3 (or whatever it's called) will see better looking elves that retain the original look Bioware had in mind for elves in Dragon Age 2. So I'm kinda hoping we see elves that look more like Fenris and Merrill (realistic and believable) in Dragon Age 3 rather than elves that look like Oranna.

Ugliness is different from alien. Some elves in DA2 looked alien and their faces looked utterly wrong in proportions. I don't want elves to look beautiful, I just want them to look right. Qunari look right, dwarves look right but elves? No.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 16 juin 2012 - 01:02 .

[TEWR]

Elton John is dead wrote...

The point with this thread was that if Bioware want to make elves look more unique and not like humans it will take more than just bigger and pointier ears to convey that look.

I agree with this, partially. While I think the ears are the same size -- but obviously placed at a different angle -- I think what Bioware needs to do is work on the visualization and representation of Elven culture.

Which I tried to tackle in this thread.

And obviously, give detail to the majority of their Elves, which I feel DAII did for the more important ones. You can see some great-looking Elves and some ugly Elves if they show up in cutscenes, while the NPCs may look more....

well... horrifying.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 juin 2012 - 01:38 .

[raist747]

Honestly, I'm happy with the DA:2 Elves. The mix of Uncanny Valley yet human figure establishes that Elves are an entirely different species than humans. You can actually tell the difference between an Elf and a Human from a distance! Something impossible in most games

The generic "LOTR Elves" look that nearly every other game or illustration uses strikes me more as a sign of creative stagnation or just sheer laziness. "Oh, I ran out of ideas, so I'll just rip of Tolkien like everyone else does!" Its not homage, its laziness.

This argument honestly reminds me of different renditions of classical masterpieces. Unless your a Professional Musician, you can't tell the difference between someone's take on Beethoven's Symphony No. 5: I, and the original except for a one or two lengths of pauses. People are rocking the "Nostalgia Glasses" so hard that developers/composers are too afraid to rock the boat or take it as an indication that they can afford to neglect the Art or Story of a game or a piece. The Rite of Spring by Igor Stravinsky is an excellent example. He rocked the boat so hard people rioted.


TL:DR, I don't want Generic Elf #6325729,  yet another Human With Pointy Ears.

Modifié par raist747, 16 juin 2012 - 05:00 .

[wsandista]

raist747 wrote...

Honestly, I'm happy with the DA:2 Elves. The mix of Uncanny Valley yet human figure establishes that Elves are an entirely different species than humans. You can actually tell the difference between an Elf and a Human from a distance! Something impossible in most games

The generic "LOTR Elves" look that nearly every other game or illustration uses strikes me more as a sign of creative stagnation or just sheer laziness. "Oh, I ran out of ideas, so I'll just rip of Tolkien like everyone else does!" Its not homage, its laziness.

This argument honestly reminds me of different renditions of classical masterpieces. Unless your a Professional Musician, you can't tell the difference between someone's take on Beethoven's Symphony No. 5: I, and the original except for a one or two lengths of pauses. People are rocking the "Nostalgia Glasses" so hard that developers/composers are too afraid to rock the boat or take it as an indication that they can afford to neglect the Art or Story of a game or a piece. The Rite of Spring by Igor Stravinsky is an excellent example. He rocked the boat so hard people rioted.


TL:DR, I don't want Generic Elf #6325729,  yet another Human With Pointy Ears.

DA2 elves were ripped from LotR.

http://t2.gstatic.co...C9irGGLjL8tAYBg

http://t1.gstatic.co...12wt9LR-dhlwtOE


See how similar they look?

[raist747]

Different body proportions. Larger forehead. Your comparing Chimpanzees to Baboons.

Modifié par raist747, 16 juin 2012 - 05:09 .

[wsandista]

raist747 wrote...

Different body proportions. Larger forehead. Your comparing Chimpanzees to Baboons.

Same ears, same nose. Larger fore head is due to receding hairline.

[raist747]

So,
http://t0.gstatic.co...aDW7f1zYI4Ou-4Q
looks like


Even then, your not taking into account skeletal structure, body silhouette, and other far more important factors.  That origonal image is not even an elf, and the Movies are one factet of interpretation.

My point still stands, the DA:2 Elves are nice break from the generic Human with pointed ears variant that's in almost every rendition of elves.

[wsandista]

raist747 wrote...

So,
http://t0.gstatic.co...aDW7f1zYI4Ou-4Q
looks like

Not at all.

Even then, your not taking into account skeletal structure, body silhouette, and other far more important factors.  That origonal image is not even an elf, and the Movies are one factet of interpretation.

My point still stands, the DA:2 Elves are nice break from the generic Human with pointed ears variant that's in almost every rendition of elves.

No it wasn't, because it was implemented badly.

This was a nice break

Modifié par wsandista, 16 juin 2012 - 05:31 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

She does look better with eyebrows. She actually looks better when you view her from the front. The reason why Oranna is used as the posterchild of everything awful about elves however is simply because of her facial structure. From the side you see that her cheeks are retracted. That's one of the major problems with DA2 elves. That and huge foreheads.

[nightscrawl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The NPC in the Viscount's Keep is a ghastly creature that should be chained in a coffin that's sent into a chasm, falls into a pit of spikes, where a river of boiling lava flows over it.

And an army of pigeons then **** in that lava river.

Rofl... ahahaha. That's... some description. Tell us how you really feel! XD

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

This thread just shows how people are willing to take the best Elves from elsewhere and compare them with the worst Elves in DAII, saying that the new design is automatically a failure.

Which is unfair and does not lend itself well to any sort of rational argument.

Agree 100%.

As an aside, I find it odd that they didn't keep Athenril in her unique armor that you see at the start of the game . Also, I've always thought the DA2 elves were more like the Zora from the Zelda games than Na'vi. The Na'vi are too cat-like IMO.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 16 juin 2012 - 03:55 .

[LPPrince]

Generally when I think of elves I think of them as being attractive to human beings.

I say generally because in DA2's case its quite the opposite.

Modifié par LPPrince, 19 juin 2012 - 07:00 .

[Zanallen]

Elton John is dead wrote...

She does look better with eyebrows. She actually looks better when you view her from the front. The reason why Oranna is used as the posterchild of everything awful about elves however is simply because of her facial structure. From the side you see that her cheeks are retracted. That's one of the major problems with DA2 elves. That and huge foreheads.

That seems to be a problem with Bioware's character creator in general. A number of elves are suffering from beard syndrome without the beard.

[LPPrince]

Retracted cheeks suck, but it didn't start there. Hell, my very first and canon Warden had very VERY slightly retracted cheeks. Always bothered me a little bit, but I could never recreate him.