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PETITION: Balance the Tactical Cloak


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#1
AlienAtSystem

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Introduction:
In order to end the endless discussions asout wether Tactical Cloak is overpowered or not, I finally decided to do the math for all of you.
In the following sections, I will compare an Infiltrator that has been specced for max in either weapon or power damage to the characters that lore-wise should be able to compete with the Infiltrator. That is the Human Soldier with his Adrenaline Rush for the Weapon Damage, and the Engineer for the Power Damage.

How the numbers were calculated:
Unfortunately, Mass Effect 3 is rather inconsistent with Damage Bonuses. Most affect only the base damage, while others affect all damage, resulting in an overall mess when people try to do the math. Here is what I have gathered so far:
  • Bonuses that are given by powers affect the base damage unless otherwise noted. Those could be called "Additive Bonuses" because they are added together.
  • Vulnerabilities that are added to the target affect the whole damage, as far as I can tell. Those bonuses can be called "Force Multipliers", as they multiply the overall deadlyness.
  • The Sniper Rifle bonus of Tactical Cloak affects all damage instead of base damage and thus is a Force Multiplier.
To calculate the overall Damage Bonus, I first add all Additive Bonuses to the 100% Base Damage. Then I multiply that number with all Force Multipliers. In the end, I substract the 100% Base Damage again to get the overall bonus received. In a formula: (100% + Additive Bonuses)*Force Multipliers - 100% = Overall Bonus.
I will give the relevant numbers so you can follow my calculations.

Weapon Damage
Since Infiltrators and Soldiers have the same weapons to choose from, there is not much inconsistency here. Therfore, here the numbers:
Infiltrators
Additive Bonuses: 22.5 % Training, 90% Tactical Cloak, 17.5% Hunter Mode (Geth Only), 10% Geth Weapons (Geth Only)
Force Multipliers: 1.4 Cloak Sniper Bonus, 1.2 Proximity Mine Vulnerability (Geth and Salarian only), 1.325 Tactical scan vulnerability (Quarian Male only)
Bonuses, from highest to lowest:
  • Geth Infiltrator with Javelin: 303%
  • Quarian Male with Sniper Rifle: 294%
  • Geth or Salarian with Sniper Rifle: 286%
  • Human and Quarian Female with Sniper Rifle: 198%
  • Geth with other geth weapon: 188%
  • Quarian Male with other weapon: 182%
  • Geth or Salarian with other, non-geth weapon: 176%
  • Human or Quarian Female with other weapon: 113%
Human Soldier
Given that Adrenaline Rush is the only other power buffing Weapon Damage in a comparable way, it will be our competitor here.
Adrenaline Rush instantly reloads a weapon, which is generally seen as significant advantage, but that, in my opinion, balances out against the cooldown where you can't use the Adrenaline Rush.
Additive Bonuses: 27.5% Training, 70% Adrenaline Rush
Force Multipliers: None
Overall Bonus: 98 %
Turian Soldier
Marksman is not as comparable as Adrenaline Rush, but since it is the only other competitor, really, it shall be added. It's maximal rate of fire bonus is 70%, but to account for reload time and ammunition consumption, I will estimate the Force Multiplier as 1.5
Additive Bonuses: 30% Training
Force Multipliers: 1.5 Marksman RoF increase, 1.2 Proximity Mine
Overall Bonus: 134%
Conclusion
Even when not equipping a Sniper Rifle, an Infiltrator has a significantly larger bonus to weapon damage. The Turian Soldier somes closer, but still falls short to the Sniper Rifle bonus.
Additionally, an Infiltrator has, skilled for maximum weapon damage, still a bonus to power damage of 100%, while the Soldier has 10%. And while a Soldier has to struggle with the high encumbrance, and can only fire one power over approx. 7 seconds, the Infiltrator can fire one every 3.5 seconds, not matter what encumbrance.
In terms of survivability, the Infiltrator wins again, as the Soldier has to forego any defensive evolutions of Adrenaline Rush in this build, the Infiltrator has his invisibility that moves the aggro off him.

Power Damage
This section is much less infallible than the above, as power cooldowns are more or less even more complex to calculate than damage bonuses. For the sake of simplicity, I have made them Force multipliers with the respective bonuses, but that is most likely completely incorrect.
Additionally, it is impossible to calculate the impact of the tactical cloak on the powers. While some have less cooldown, others have more, and I generally have no idea how the minimal TC cooldown interacts with encumbrance and other cooldown modifiers.
At last, powers are of course not easily comparable, which I also have not taken into account, as this is not the purpose of the thread. I will just remark that the powers of the popular Infiltrators - Arc Grenade, Energy Drain, Proximity Mine - are generally seen as on the strong end of the power table.
Infiltrators
Additive Bonuses: 45% Training (40% for Geth), 90% Cloak, 17,5% Hunter Mode  general bonus(Geth only), 15% Hunter Mode damage bonus (Geth Only)
Force Multipliers: 1.325 Tactical Scan (Quarian Male only), 1.2 Proximity Mine vulnerability (Salarian and Geth only)
Bonuses, from high to low:
  • Quarian Male: 211%
  • Geth: 209%
  • Salarian: 182%
  • Other: 135%
Engineers
The obvious competitors. Note that the Force Multiplier of the Geth Engineer is most likely estimated way to high.
Additive Bonuses: 45% Training (40% Geth), 32.5% Hunter Mode (Geth Only)
Force Multipliers: 1.2 Hunter Mode recharge speed (Geth Only), 1.325 Tactical Scan (Quarian Male only)
Bonuses, from high to low:
  • Geth Engineer: 107%
  • Quarian Male: 92%
  • Other: 45%
Sentinels (Tech Armor)
As Sentinels can migitate damage with their armor, but are also mainly Power-Based, they shall be added here. Please consider that the Force multiplier of the Cooldown Reduction is most likely chosen way to high.
Additive Bonuses: 45% Training, 30% Tech Armor
Force Multipliers: 0.7 (except Grenadier Krogan)
Bonuses:
  • Grenadier Krogan: 75%
  • Other: 23%
Conclusion
While not overall conclusive data, the trend is clearly visible: The Infiltrators win against Power classes in terms of bonus.
Again, they also manage to have the higher weapon damage, too. I haven't run the numbers, but it should come down to about 50% maximum for the Engineers vs. 100% of the Infiltrators times the Sniper Force Multiplier.
In terms of survivability, Infiltrators and Engineers are similar, as both have an ability to shift the aggro (The exception is the Male Quarian, who makes up for it in damage).
Sentinels, Jacks of all trades, are of course nowhere near those two, but make up for it in other ways.

Overall Conclusion
It is rather obvious that the Infiltrator, the Half Tech, Half Combat fighter of Mass Effect 1 has grown into something that outperforms both pure Combat Specialists and Tech Specialists, thanks to his tactical cloak. Since someone will drop the n-word anyway, I shall say it out loud: The Tactical Cloak needs to be nerfed.
And since people are unable to read the last sentence, I have removed my suggestions in the last edit and will just leave this as my overall suggestion: Make the invisibility effect more effective to encourage sneaking instead of assassination.

Please Sign if you agree with me that the Tactical Cloak needs to be balanced. My suggestions are only numbers and can be discussed.

Modifié par AlienAtSystem, 15 juin 2012 - 09:17 .


#2
cronshaw

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What on earth do you need to sneak for? I see people proposing this idea as some sort of trade off for less damage modifiers. The faster you can kill stuff the better, sneaking around for 10 seconds is almost useless.

#3
-Event-Horizon-

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Signed. BW has to put an end to the needless nerfing of classes (GE) and weapons that were only OP on infiltrators.

Modifié par -Event-Horizon-, 13 juin 2012 - 04:40 .


#4
I7IDanny

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modok8 wrote...

What on earth do you need to sneak for? I see people proposing this idea as some sort of trade off for less damage modifiers. The faster you can kill stuff the better, sneaking around for 10 seconds is almost useless.


4 cap objectives? Escaping a clusterf*ck? I love my FQI with her Claymore, but I'm much more of an objective player.

#5
AlienAtSystem

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On Gold, having an Infiltrator do the Activate Objective while the rest of the teams draws aggro is not to be underestimated. And when you can sneak better around the map, your survivability increases, and people would actually notice how nicely the AI reacts to position changes, as they continue walking and firing towards the last known location. Better sneaking means flanking attacks.

#6
InfamousResult

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Signed. An intelligent look at the problem. Good job.

#7
Mozts

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+1

But I never saw a successful petition.

#8
Mevanna

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Signed with gusto. I appreciate hard facts and numbers.

And really, even playing as an Infiltrator, I still think they are too strong. There are lots of other balance issues that need work, but this is by FAR the most pressing one.

#9
Master Xanthan

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I would only support this if they un-nerfed hunter mode.

#10
Drussius

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I fail to see why everyone is so adamant that Infiltrators get nerfed. While I think the Male Quarian version is a bit too cool with the massive area of the Arc Grenade, if you nerf Tactical Cloak, you nerf everything that makes Infiltrators any good. Cut the damage bonuses in half (total) and you have a weak, barely-worthwhile class with little to no synergy between the other abilities. People need to stop asking for nerfs for good classes, and instead look for ways to buff the sub-par classes.

It's soldiers, sentinels and some engineers that need some buffs in my view, not Infiltrators that need nerfs. And before anyone claims I'm an infiltrator fanatic, I play all classes equally. I find Soldiers and Sentinels to be underwhelming, not any other classes to be overwhelming.

#11
tCruzin4lyfe

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Another one of these, smh. Just play the game & have fun.

#12
JaimasOfRaxis

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I'll only support this petition if the Infiltrators recieve commensurate buffs to compensate for how badly this will destroy their ability to provide mobile support or sustained firepower and DPS spikes.

#13
Nuisance78

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All this nerfing and buffing is going to kill the game, people that aren't as serious as you guys about this stuff are going to stop playing when their favorite classes and weapons become pea shooter.

#14
I7IDanny

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Drussius wrote...

It's soldiers, sentinels and some engineers that need some buffs in my view, not Infiltrators that need nerfs.


This.

#15
Adhok42

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....The **** did you include Sentinels for? Seriously? They tank crazy amounts of damage to preform slow burn kills. DPS is not their strong suit.

Hell DPS should NOT be the goal of ALL classes. Each one brings something different to the match to make it survivable. I seriously CANNOT believe that's all anyone focuses on. The fact that this is the basis of your "Solution" sickens me. It's like you're not even trying to see what the other classes do to help the match. I recommend you reevaluate your stance on class Roles instead of trying to balance all classes into a Vanilla Role where everybody does the same amount of damage.

Ugh... I can't stand to read any more of this. Pardon me while I go puke.

#16
Chaoswind

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+5

#17
InfamousResult

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Drussius wrote...

if you nerf Tactical Cloak, you nerf everything that makes Infiltrators any good


Hahah what.

"If they do anything LESS than TWO-TO-THREE TIMES the damage of other classes, they're useless."

So, besides the fact that they're the only class that'd be able to run in and Revive teammates safely, or the only class that can run and capture an Objective behind enemy ranks solo, they wouldn't be ANY good unless they had 100% more damage buffing capabilities over other classes? Really really?

Modifié par InfamousResult, 13 juin 2012 - 04:59 .


#18
AlienAtSystem

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Drussius wrote...

 Cut the damage bonuses in half (total) and you have a weak, barely-worthwhile class with little to no synergy between the other abilities.


The Data actually suggests that when you cut the bonus in half you arrive there where the other classes are now. I haven't calculated these numbers so that you can ignore them.

#19
Nuisance78

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Like I said all you guys that want every character weak is going to kill the game, but hey at least every character and weapon will be the same strength.

#20
Mevanna

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Drussius wrote...

eople need to stop asking for nerfs for good classes, and instead look for ways to buff the sub-par classes.


There really is absolutely no difference between the two in terms of balancing the classes out against one another, which is all we're asking.
The only difference from whether you buff or nerf to level out the differences would be the overall difficulty of the game, and we have different difficulty modes for that.

So please, stop bringing that argument. It is utterly empty.

#21
Mozts

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Drussius wrote...

I fail to see why everyone is so adamant that Infiltrators get nerfed. While I think the Male Quarian version is a bit too cool with the massive area of the Arc Grenade, if you nerf Tactical Cloak, you nerf everything that makes Infiltrators any good. Cut the damage bonuses in half (total) and you have a weak, barely-worthwhile class with little to no synergy between the other abilities. People need to stop asking for nerfs for good classes, and instead look for ways to buff the sub-par classes.

It's soldiers, sentinels and some engineers that need some buffs in my view, not Infiltrators that need nerfs. And before anyone claims I'm an infiltrator fanatic, I play all classes equally. I find Soldiers and Sentinels to be underwhelming, not any other classes to be overwhelming.


We need to balance cloak to be a real cloak. Right now its just a spamable 90% damage boost that can exchange cooldowns.

Buff cloaks duration. Buff cloak invisibility. Nerf the base damage and put it in some evolution, forcing the player to choose between duration, damage or maybe even power damage.

Right now cloak is build in one way and you can have almost everything it offers. 

Modifié par Mozts, 13 juin 2012 - 05:00 .


#22
landylan

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BUFF EVERYTHING. also you need to put the title in all caps and say its official

#23
-Event-Horizon-

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I7IDanny wrote...

Drussius wrote...

It's soldiers, sentinels and some engineers that need some buffs in my view, not Infiltrators that need nerfs.


This.


Sad reality is that if we did what you proposed there would be a need for another difficulty level, as gold would be too easy, its counter productive.

Modifié par -Event-Horizon-, 13 juin 2012 - 05:01 .


#24
Gust4v

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/Not signed

% doesn't mean much if you are ignoring the skills of each class. Also, infiltrators can't spam powers like the other caster classes.

#25
Mevanna

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InfamousResult wrote...

Drussius wrote...

if you nerf Tactical Cloak, you nerf everything that makes Infiltrators any good


Hahah what.

"If they do anything LESS than TWO-TO-THREE TIMES the damage of other classes, they're useless."

So, besides the fact that they're the only class that'd be able to run in and Revive teammates safely, or the only class that can run and capture an Objective behind enemy ranks solo, they wouldn't be ANY good unless they had 100% more damage buffing capabilities over other classes? Really really?


Now that is good ^_^