456 réponses à ce sujet

[Mevanna]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

Death8the8Kid8 wrote...
3. TC is already wonky enough as it is! Do you not see that when Infiltrators cloak, they still get shot at by the enemy?

And another person, who thanks to the 3-second cloak cycle never noticed how cloak actually works. Enemies continue shooting at your last known position and can actually only see through cloak when you come close. When you always sit on the same spot in cover, of course they open fire on you.
It would be perfect for fast position changes if that function wasn't overshadowed by the constant large damage buff when used only to be broken immediately again.

It's not just Infiltrators either... any class can sneak off, and if the enemies don't see where you went, they'll keep firing at where they last spotted you.
Of course, since everyone is just using Tactical Cloak as a damage spam rather than, you know, tactically, nobody seems to notice this.

[nicethugbert]

AlienAtSystem wrote...
In terms of survivability, Infiltrators and Engineers are similar, as
both have an ability to shift the aggro (The exception is the Male
Quarian, who makes up for it in damage).
Sentinels, Jacks of all trades, are of course nowhere near those two, but make up for it in other ways.

No, I don't agree with this.  Infiltrators DUMP AGGRO ON TEAM.  That is entirely different from having a drone/decoy.  A drone or decoy takes aggro off the entire team if they take cover near it.  When an infiltrator cloaks, everything on the map comes hunting for you.

Sentinels and other classes for all their decoys, drones, armor, Barrirer, or increased shields/barriers still have to be extremely careful.  Many enemies on gold can one shot 1200 shields/barirers with easy, even through DR.  Health drains in a few rounds which is not hard to drain in a map full of opponents with super human accuracy, reflexes, and awareness.

You can take away the damage bonuses from tac cloak and it will continue to dump aggro on team.  But, perhaps nobody would play or play with infiltrators if the bonuses were eliminated or severely reduced.  I could live with that..

Modifié par nicethugbert, 13 juin 2012 - 10:33 .

[Chealec]

Death8the8Kid8 wrote...

1. This is a TEAM GAME. I don't think having a squadmate killing all the big mean people is such a bad thing.

- so you're happy to leech?

Death8the8Kid8 wrote...

2. Sniper classes are *usually* supposed to have big damage bonuses so they can do what they were intended to do, sniping.

Which is absolutely fine - should they be area detonating proxy mines, stripping shields or gaining huge bonuses with shotguns and pocket bazookas as well?

Death8the8Kid8 wrote...

3. TC is already wonky enough as it is! Do you not see that when Infiltrators cloak, they still get shot at by the enemy?

Not all enemies, not even most - and it's not so much wonky as "deliberately flawed" (probably)

Death8the8Kid8 wrote...

4. And I'm sure that not ALL Infiltrators go for the uber powerful sniper rifle of doom type build. (I am one of them, though I do have a GI made to murder everything in it's path)

I don't always go Ginfiltrator with a pocket nuke - but when I do, I murder everything in my path. (sorry, couldn't resist)

Death8the8Kid8 wrote...

5. There's things that we can do to other classes that can help them play the role they were supposed to play.
And by the way, I refuse to sign this petition! >

Fair enough - I suggested a few many pages back...

Oh, and my main class is QFI, and I don't think a small reduction to TC damage with a small increase to assault rifle damage would hurt anyone - but it might mix things up a bit.

[Chealec]

nicethugbert wrote...
...

You can take away the damage bonuses from tac cloak and it will continue to dump aggro on team.  But, perhaps nobody would play or play with infiltrators if the bonuses were eliminated or severely reduced.  I could live with that..

Now show me on the dolly where the bad infiltrator touched you...

[Pugz82]

This community is a JOKE...you ever actually really read what you all post. Cry a river over everything, nerf this, nerf that. YOU ALL will be the downfall of this game.

Bet more than half of you ****ing about TC in this thread used it during an Insanity run of the SP...sure you didn't mind all that extra damage it did when no one could revive you.

If you all get your wish an the infiltrator is made a useless class I can see a ton of people just saying F this game. I have plenty of friends who stopped playing altogether already and seriously all the nerfing doesn't help...all it does is create more to **** about on this forum.

Everyone here is so concerned where they fall on the scoreboard...who cares, its a team game for credits, period.

Modifié par Pugz82, 13 juin 2012 - 10:37 .

[AlienAtSystem]

nicethugbert wrote...

No, I don't agree with this.  Infiltrators DUMP AGGRO ON TEAM.  That is entirely different from having a drone/decoy.  A drone or decoy takes aggro off the entire team if they take cover near it.  When an infiltrator cloaks, everything on the map comes hunting for you.

All of these statements were made to be as objective as possible. You are of course right that shifting aggro to a decoy impacts less on the other players, but given that on gold, you have to stick to cover as often as possible anyway, it is difficult to determine how bad this is.
Personally, I have not problem with an Infiltrator dumping a bit of aggro on me. It would of course be nice if he took it back when decloaking, but his DPS usually take care of that.

Pugz82 wrote...



Bet more than half of you ****ing about TC
in this thread used it during an Insanity run of the SP...sure you
didn't mind all that extra damage it did when no one could revive you.

Insanity run was with Vanguard, thanks. And I'm not talking about stomping TC into the ground, just shift its focus away from the insane damage to the support and survivability bonus.

Modifié par AlienAtSystem, 13 juin 2012 - 10:42 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Pugz82 wrote...

This community is a JOKE...you ever actually really read what you all post. Cry a river over everything, nerf this, nerf that. YOU ALL will be the downfall of this game.

Bet more than half of you ****ing about TC in this thread used it during an Insanity run of the SP...sure you didn't mind all that extra damage it did when no one could revive you.

If you all get your wish an the infiltrator is made a useless class I can see a ton of people just saying F this game. I have plenty of friends who stopped playing altogether already and seriously all the nerfing doesn't help...all it does is create more to **** about on this forum.

Everyone here is so concerned where they fall on the scoreboard...who cares, its a team game for credits, period.

Your friends leaving was a good start.  Now hopefully you'll do the same.

[Chaoz1994]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

I'll only support this petition if the Infiltrators recieve commensurate buffs to compensate for how badly this will destroy their ability to provide mobile support or sustained firepower and DPS spikes.

QFT. And including tactical scan is a dirty dirty cheap trick. Tactical Scan applies TO EVERYONE IN THE PARTY...

And if I ever need more than one headshot to kill a normal guy, I'm gonna be pissed off. There is no point in having a sniper class if I can't one shot headshot a basic enemy. Removal of weak spots has already put a MASSIVE dent in my killing power. I can no longer take down a geth prime in 6 shots. It takes me well over 18 now (BW II). No more nerfs are needed. Krysae needed a nerf, yes, but that's fixed now.  An adept spamming BE will do WAY more damage than an infiltrator, AND it's AoE. Stop whining about infiltrators. They are fine.

Actually, no. Nerf infiltrators into the ground. Tactical cloak is cosmetic. Enemies still attack you. Passive -80% damage bonus, increasing to -95% when cloaked. 5 Widow X headshots to kill a trooper. Infiltrators now take 3x longer to revive and cap objectives than other classes. Then watch the butthurt commence as people can no longer do gold because there are no infiltrators to revive their sorry asses, and get THEM credits.

Edit:

I don't understand the issue everyone has with tactical cloak. It seems so petty. Infiltrators don't do too much damage. They do BURST SINGLE TARGET damage. They spend at least as long as they spent shooting on reloading. A good adept can take out 3-4 people every few seconds. I consider myself a skilled infiltrator, and I consistently get more points with my AJA than I do with my QMI. I tac scan enemies, I revive people, I do the objective. I snipe people across the map. I can get 2 kills in one cloak cycle with my BW, because I have a good aim and can headshot consistently. Tactical Cloak damage buff allows me to keep up vs bosses against power spamming classes. Tech Bursts and Biotic Explosions are FAR more powerful than any sniper shot, AND they are AoE. It takes all my skill to keep up with a skilled adept, because they do so much damage. Soldiers are underwhelming atm anyway. classes which use powers outshine them. Batarian and Turian have decent powers, and therefore can keep up incredibly well. The rest usually don't do as well, unless the player is really skilled. And go and pick up a widow/black widow. Max sniper damage. Go on Gold and hit a geth prime. You'll do 2-3 bars with the widow and about 1 with the black widow. Now, you're gonna have to do that several more times with long reload in between. Is that overpowered?

Modifié par Chaoz1994, 13 juin 2012 - 10:53 .

[Chealec]

Pugz82 wrote...

This community is a JOKE...you ever actually really read what you all post. Cry a river over everything, nerf this, nerf that. YOU ALL will be the downfall of this game.

Bet more than half of you ****ing about TC in this thread used it during an Insanity run of the SP...sure you didn't mind all that extra damage it did when no one could revive you.

If you all get your wish an the infiltrator is made a useless class I can see a ton of people just saying F this game. I have plenty of friends who stopped playing altogether already and seriously all the nerfing doesn't help...all it does is create more to **** about on this forum.

Everyone here is so concerned where they fall on the scoreboard...who cares, its a team game for credits, period.

Wow - somebody needs a Snickers...

[Chealec]

Chaoz1994 wrote...
...

Krysae needed a nerf, yes, but that's fixed now.

...

Yeah, that massive ~10% reduction to damage made a whole lot of difference to Infiltrators...

[B.Shep]

Another topic about this...When some people will stop whinning about this?

[InfamousResult]

B.Shep wrote...

Another topic about this...When some people will stop whinning about this?

People will stop asking for this balance when it gets implemented, I imagine.

When will some people stop whining about people whining, I wonder?

[Chealec]

B.Shep wrote...

Another topic about this...When some people will stop whinning about this?

Personally I'm hoping to keep it going until we choke the database server and knock the forum offline...

[Kronner]

InfamousResult wrote...

People will stop asking for this balance when it gets implemented, I imagine.

When will some people stop whining about people whining, I wonder?

No, they will not.

[Chaoz1994]

Chealec wrote...

Chaoz1994 wrote...
...

Krysae needed a nerf, yes, but that's fixed now.

...

Yeah, that massive ~10% reduction to damage made a whole lot of difference to Infiltrators...

It's big enough to allow me to compete with my AJA and my BW salarian sniper, so yes, it's better now. Pre-nerf it was ridiculous. Now, it's merely powerful. And I'd like to keep it that way. Whenever people cry for a nerf the guns usually get made useless (Falcon etc.). I'd rather have one more usable gun than an overpowered gun nerfed into oblivion. BW may nerf the Krysae more but I believe it's balanced now. I would rather see fully auto weapons buffed first, than anything else nerfed. If all guns were good, then we wouldn't notice the particularly good ones. Right now, since there are only like 3/4 good ones per weapon category, it's very noticeable when a gun is good. If all the crappy weapons were made equal, THEN maybe everything brought down a notch, that would be fine.



Look if BW really cared about balancing snipers for everyone they would remove cloak damage bonus and add 90% or whatever damage into all snipers. But then who in their right mind would pick an infiltrator. Going invisible for a few seconds is useful, but everything they can do would be done by everyone else, and better at that. Infiltrators were obviously balanced around doing high damage with snipers. Hence why they are pretty useless if you use a build which ignores cloak (shotgun infiltrators are balanced too except they can ignore thee last tac cloak points).

Modifié par Chaoz1994, 13 juin 2012 - 11:16 .

[InfamousResult]

Kronner wrote...

No, they will not.

Damn, ya'll, we got a psychic up in here.

Yo, Nostredamus, can you tell me what I'm gonna' eat for dinner tomorrow? I wanna' make sure I have all the ingredients and I don't rip apart the whole space-time continuum, dawg.

[Kalas Magnus]

Kronner wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

People will stop asking for this balance when it gets implemented, I imagine.

When will some people stop whining about people whining, I wonder?

No, they will not.

Then they would complain about everything being similar with a different skin.

[AlienAtSystem]

Could you please keep this pointless meta-ranting out of this thread? There will always be people who complain, but that is not the point.

[Rodrrigoww]

Let's take a look at this then :
kroguard health + barrier = 3200
GI shields + health with HM activated + something less than 600.With shields that start regenerating after some 30 seconds if you don't take damage in between your cloaks.

Wow that's so unfair , i have an idea , buff the GI health to 3200 total too , then reduce its DPS to that of a kroguard , then let's do this to every other class and achieve true balance.

Knock all this idiotic crap off ,if you wanna do damage you play as an infiltrator , it's THAT simple , if you want endurance Kroguard is for you and so on.Each class has their cons and pros.

[InfamousResult]

Rodrrigoww wrote...

Each class has their cons and pros.

And?

The argument is that the tradeoff isn't even.

[megawug]

Rodrrigoww wrote...

Let's take a look at this then :
kroguard health + barrier = 3200
GI
shields + health with HM activated + something less than 600.With
shields that start regenerating after some 30 seconds if you don't take
damage in between your cloaks.

Wow that's so unfair , i have an
idea , buff the GI health to 3200 total too , then reduce its DPS to
that of a kroguard , then let's do this to every other class and achieve
true balance.

Knock all this idiotic crap off ,if you wanna do
damage you play as an infiltrator , it's THAT simple , if you want
endurance Kroguard is for you and so on.Each class has their cons and
pros.

I think some people don't understand the difference between a "tank" vs. a "glass cannon".

Modifié par megawug, 13 juin 2012 - 11:37 .

[Rodrrigoww]

InfamousResult wrote...

Rodrrigoww wrote...

Each class has their cons and pros.

And?

The argument is that the tradeoff isn't even.

Yes it is , biotic explosions are ridiculously powerful , gigantic radius and stasis is an insta phantom killer .
A tsunami of tech bursts , arc grenades and incinerate are just as good.Health regeneration with 1300 health.Insta shield recharge of a 1600 shield ( possible 2100). 70% damage + double shields or 40% damage + double shields +40% DR and frag 'nades.I'm sorry I'm able to do as good as my GI with any other class in this game , if you can't  , you suck , on top of that , a lot of classe have sinergy with ech other , while infs have no sinergy at all.Turian sentinel for example , tons of tech bursts , tons of biotic explosions , overload and tech armor , I can outscore an infi with that , put an AA in the team and he'll probably be the third or fourth.
About the trade off , here's the trade off : Not a single power of an infiltrator is able to do decent damage  , their health and shield suck , every sniper rifle can take 1 to 2 enemies before it needs to reload WITH TC , granted you scored a headshot on targets that are most of the time moving and dodging and on cover on gold.So as you can see it goes like this : Infiltrators are shi* without TC , we give them TC , now it's even.Let's compare to asari adepts just for the hell of it , they don't even need to aim to create biotic explosions in the same time an infiltrator would shoot his widow reload and finally shoot again to kill a target AAs would have exploded along with other enemies and with stasis under the sleeve.Yet you don't see me complaining about  AAs which i can own any infiltrator when i use it.

Modifié par Rodrrigoww, 13 juin 2012 - 11:55 .

[nicethugbert]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

No, I don't agree with this.  Infiltrators DUMP AGGRO ON TEAM.  That is entirely different from having a drone/decoy.  A drone or decoy takes aggro off the entire team if they take cover near it.  When an infiltrator cloaks, everything on the map comes hunting for you.

All of these statements were made to be as objective as possible. You are of course right that shifting aggro to a decoy impacts less on the other players, but given that on gold, you have to stick to cover as often as possible anyway, it is difficult to determine how bad this is.
Personally, I have not problem with an Infiltrator dumping a bit of aggro on me. It would of course be nice if he took it back when decloaking, but his DPS usually take care of that.

You can count the number of times someone dies, or other actions or statuses.  It maybe be difficult.  But it is objective.

Two infiltrators is not a bit of aggro dump, three is much worse.

[nicethugbert]

Rodrrigoww wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

Rodrrigoww wrote...

Each class has their cons and pros.

And?

The argument is that the tradeoff isn't even.

Yes it is , biotic explosions are ridiculously powerful , gigantic radius and stasis is an insta phantom killer .
A tsunami of tech bursts , arc grenades and incinerate are just as good.Health regeneration with 1300 health.Insta shield recharge of a 1600 shield ( possible 2100). 70% damage + double shields or 40% damage + double shields +40% DR and frag 'nades.I'm sorry I'm able to do as good as my GI with any other class in this game , if you can't  , you suck , on top of that , a lot of classe have sinergy with ech other , while infs have no sinergy at all.Turian sentinel for example , tons of tech bursts , tons of biotic explosions , overload and tech armor , I can outscore an infi with that , put an AA in the team and he'll probably be the third or fourth.

No, it's not even because all those actions you mention are being done while tacking damage on gold.  But, with Tac Cloak, you can stay safe while you line up a shot then run away when you shoot.

[Treacherous J Slither]

You guys are going to ruin my favorite class with all this nerf talk and reduce Infiltrators to medics no matter how you spec them.

Sad face.*sniff*