456 réponses à ce sujet

[JonasPeti]

Mevanna wrote...

Basically, the problem is that an Infiltrator can outscore all classes except biotics in their own area of expertise.
He'll do more tech damage than an Engineer, more weapon damage than a Soldier and more melee damage than a Krogan.
While a skilled player with any of these classes will still be able to match up to an average Infiltrator, if you compare people with similar skill levels, the Infiltrator is just going to be better off.
Lately, players seem to have been noticing this and the percentage of people playing the class is rising pretty dramatically. (From personal experience. Bioware official numbers are few and far between, but they do show that increase too). 
So for the sake of variety, we really need to make sure the different classes are roughly equal in 'worth' (I'm deliberately not saying 'damage') unless we want to end up with everyone playing the same build.

Oh, I got it. 
I won't support this because:
a) this theory haven't any proof (we have only proof of more damage and fast power spamming, but the gameplay is not just about that)
i don't like solutions based on thoughts "I don't have enough score at the end of the match, so nerf something"
c) on silver/gold the score-hunting players will fall faster and they will not be success.. if the infiltrator plays good, then I will welcome him (all of them)... on the other hand if he is running up and down cloaked and hunting spawnpoints instead of helping team and dying every 5 sec then I'll left him bleed to death on the battlefield

I think there is an ultimate solution for all problems like in this thread: BW should drop off the score system. Who cares how many scores do you have?! It is only good to generate problems and threads and worries like this. People worrying on their scores instead of playing in a team. Annoying.

Poison_Berrie wrote...
Basically Infiltrators get to lug
around high weight and damage weapons and still be able to spam powers
as often (or more often sometimes) at a higher damage potential than say
another class with same power and with the same weapon.
I gave an example of a Salarian Engineer and Infiltrator with similar ED specs and both carrying a Widow.
By the time the Salarian Engineer's ED Cooldown is over, the Infiltrator has started his next Cloak cycle.

Thanks, but that wasn't my question.

[ExecutorBG]

Poison_berrie wrote...
I gave an example of a Salarian Engineer and Infiltrator with similar ED specs and both carrying a Widow.
By the time the Salarian Engineer's ED Cooldown is over, the Infiltrator has started his next Cloak cycle.

Who said that a Salarian engineer is supposed to play with a widow, and be considered effective?
He is much better off with a lighter weapon spamming powers!

Now go try using a light weapon on the infiltrator and tell me how imba you are... oh wait you are not... because the cooldown is STILL 3 seconds...

Modifié par ExecutorBG, 15 juin 2012 - 06:40 .

[gaminazn]

OP still hasn't corrected the lie about sniper rifle damage being a "damage modifier"....

[Darksaberexile]

Question for the OP:
Why do you chose to compare the damage bonus of sentinels to that of infiltrators, but then neglect to compare the damage bonus on powers of adepts to infiltrators? This seems odd, since some sentinels have the exact same spammable powers as some adepts.

Example: Human Sentinel and Asari Adept.
Both characters have Warp and Throw as their go-to powers, so why choose to do a comparison with only one of the characters?

[AlienAtSystem]

The calculations for Adepts would basically be the same as for Engineers, since I can't really delve into a power strength comparison, and their Power Damage bonuses from Training are more or less in the same order of magnitude. And given that their Biotics have a wholly different effect, unlike the Tech Powers, where you have some overlaps between Engineers and Infiltrators, it is difficult to compare based on the bonuses alone.

The Sentinel was more or less to show how other numbers are more balanced. The Sentinel, while gaining more Power Damage than the Engineer due to his armor, looses the advantage due to his higher Cooldown, while the Infiltrator, thanks to cloak-cycling, can Cooldown-wise keep up with an Engineer.

And the Argument that an Infiltrator shouldn't carry light weapons underlines the inbalance Poison_berrie wanted to point out. And Engineer has to watch his encumbrance and carry very light weapons to keep up in ways of Cooldown to an Infiltrator who can carry what he likes, just has to watch out to activate and deactivate cloak at the right times.
On the side of Math:
Energy drain has a Cooldown of 5.33 seconds when specced for it. With negilibile encumbrance, it comes down to 1.77 seconds. The Infiltrator has 3 seconds both on normal and light encumbrance, but in return his Energy drain is 90% more worth (ok, less, given the additive nature of the Bonus. I'll calculate with 70%). That means an Engineer has effectively 0.56 Energy Drains per seconds, and the Infiltrator as well.(Damage-wise. The Engineer has of course more often the Shield Boost, but the difference there has no significant impact on the survivability)

Modifié par AlienAtSystem, 15 juin 2012 - 07:37 .

[A Wild Snorlax]

Petition: someone teach the OP how to play the other classes so he can stop whining on the forums.

[charon45]

Breaking news: infiltrators can typically kill one non-boss enemy per cloak cycle. This is such a ridiculous topic to get up in arms over. Sniper classes are supposed to do lots of damage to a single enemy. The math is really irrelevant because the mechanics of the class make it very difficult to use every cycle to is full potential.

[AlienAtSystem]

I play every class on Silver. I even managed to get a Quarian Engineer through Gold once. So why exactly are you posting a comment that is ad hominem when we just had such a nice streak of arguments ad rem?

[Poison_Berrie]

ExecutorBG wrote...

Who said that a Salarian engineer is supposed to play with a widow, and be considered effective?
He is much better off with a lighter weapon spamming powers!

Now go try using a light weapon on the infiltrator and tell me how imba you are... oh wait you are not... because the cooldown is STILL 3 seconds...

Not my point. The Salarian Infiltrator can do both, whereas the Engineer will have to choose whether to use powers or a heavy weapon.
For an Infiltrator considerations most classes have to make regarding encumberance and power usage are irrelevant. 

gaminazn wrote...

OP still hasn't corrected the lie about sniper rifle damage being a "damage modifier"....

People who have checked the game files and/or done the math say it's a multiplative bonus. 

[DragonRageGT]

I7IDanny wrote...

Drussius wrote...

It's soldiers, sentinels and some engineers that need some buffs in my view, not Infiltrators that need nerfs.

This.

This too!

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Petition: someone teach the OP how to play the other classes so he can stop whining on the forums.

/signed

Modifié par DragonRageGT, 15 juin 2012 - 08:01 .

[tallinn]

Nuisance78 wrote...

All this nerfing and buffing is going to kill the game, people that aren't as serious as you guys about this stuff are going to stop playing when their favorite classes and weapons become pea shooter.

Even an asari adept can't finish a phantom that fast like an infiltrator with a krysae. Actually you feel like a noob when you are fighting a phantom and the inf steps in and crush her to meat in an instant.

Infiltrator is the favourite class for many guys as lobbies on gold without at least one inf in them are as rare as gold lobbies that are not FBWGG. Given the typical nature of the average video gamer the fun of this class and its popularity is based on the fact that it "owns" all other players on the team.

Now decreasing the excessive damage buff of TC that can be even more enhanced by using gear and equipment will not turn the inf into a pea shooter. How many BEs do you need to take down an atlas? How much time do you need for that? Compare that the number of shots and the time an inf needs to take an atlas down and you see both why infs are OP and how much damage buff decrease is needed.

[A Wild Snorlax]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

I play every class on Silver. I even managed to get a Quarian Engineer through Gold once. So why exactly are you posting a comment that is ad hominem when we just had such a nice streak of arguments ad rem?

I am because silver players calling for nerfs is ridiculous, and anyone with even a tiny bit of skill can use any class on silver no problem. Calling weapons and classes overpowered when you're playing on easymode difficulty is stupid. Also you ''managing to get an engineer thorgh gold once'' proves nothing. I've had many a teammate ''manage to get through gold'' by getting carried and scoring 15k points at the end of a 25 minute game, doesn't exactly prove anything.

Every class has it's uses on gold. I've never seen someone I know is a GOOD player(someone that can beat gold with all the classes) complain about infiltrators. Also, it's not hard to outscore infiltrators with certain other classes, and your OP fails to adress other class abilities such as combos and  grenade spam. Your balancing changes would also make the infiltrators close to obsolete and shows you pretty much don't have a clue as it would make them much weaker then for example soldiers. Also, ''encourage sneaking instead of asassination''? This is not metal gear solid or deus ex, this notion is so ridiculous I don't even know what to say really.

In fact the massive amount of nerf calls on this board is ridiculous, except for when it was about the krysae as that was justified. All I play is gold, 9/10 players I meet in gold are god awful and can't finish a game without getting carried most of the game. Even if they play infiltrators this is the case more often than not. Given this general lack of skill throughout the playerbase I find the amount of nerf cries baffling. 

Modifié par A Wild Snorlax, 15 juin 2012 - 08:11 .

[Simbacca]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

Introduction:
In order to end the endless discussions asout wether Tactical Cloak is overpowered or not, I finally decided to do the math for all of you.
In the following sections, I will compare an Infiltrator that has been specced for max in either weapon or power damage to the characters that lore-wise should be able to compete with the Infiltrator. That is the Human Soldier with his Adrenaline Rush for the Weapon Damage, and the Engineer for the Power Damage...

{body snipped for space concerns}

Very nice analysis of the disparity between Damage bonuses across the various classes AlienAtSystem! And that's just the Damage bonuses!

I also wrote up my own analysis based on my time with this game since the demo as it relates to this ongoing discussion. It's a bit different as it discusses how the Infiltrator not only is the best for it's intented roles but also how it better than half the classes at their roles. The analysis, and my subsequent replies, seem a good fit for this thread.

Peronally I don't care if they nerf Cloak or leave it be. I don't ever come on the forums to emotionally call for nerfs or buffs and honestly I wish there was less of it and a whole lot more strategy and build discussion.  I love playing every class and have completed gold runs with all of them even with all random teammates, especially back during the demo before weekly balance updates, before DLC weapon and race power creep, before FBWGG ever existed. Hell I've definitely played Infiltrators a little more than any other class simply because they're all so fun and also because it is undeniably easier to clutch a mission if I get paired with randoms that shouldn't actually be in a gold room yet. If Bioware wants to leave an easy class in their co-op game for people, that's fine.  Still if I was asked to objectively analyze how well the various classes fill their roles, I can not deny what I believe to be the truth of this snippet from my linked post:

The point is an Infiltrator can best perform it's intended roles as well as utilize weapons (and more weapons) better than an AR Soldier and has more survivability than a TA Sentinel.  And since Infiltrators have larger, and effectively even higher due to power while cloak from rank 1, weapon damage bonues than any other skill, it can do all this with all the advantages listed and be not only a better AoE controller but an AoE nuker than the caster classes with weapons like the Krysae and Scorpion.  This class is both a jack of all trades as well as a master of most.

Modifié par Simbacca, 15 juin 2012 - 02:56 .

[heybigmoney]

Simbacca wrote...

AlienAtSystem wrote...

Introduction:
In order to end the endless discussions asout wether Tactical Cloak is overpowered or not, I finally decided to do the math for all of you.
In the following sections, I will compare an Infiltrator that has been specced for max in either weapon or power damage to the characters that lore-wise should be able to compete with the Infiltrator. That is the Human Soldier with his Adrenaline Rush for the Weapon Damage, and the Engineer for the Power Damage...

{body snipped for space concerns}

...Overall Conclusion
It is rather obvious that the Infiltrator, the Half Tech, Half Combat fighter of Mass Effect 1 has grown into something that outperforms both pure Combat Specialists and Tech Specialists, thanks to his tactical cloak. Since someone will drop the n-word anyway, I shall say it out loud: The Tactical Cloak needs to be nerfed.
My short-term suggestions: Reduce the Damage Bonus to 50% (30% initial, 20% on evolution) and the Force Multiplier of Sniper Rifles to 1.2. Decrease base Duration and increase Duration evolution gain to make infiltrators choose between survivability and damage.
My long-term suggestions: Make the Damage Bonus end immediately when a power is used. Make the Sniper Rifle bonus additive instead of multiplying. Have the Cooldown affected by encumbrance. Make the invisibility effect more effective to encourage sneaking instead of assassination.

Please Sign if you agree with me that the Tactical Cloak needs to be balanced. My suggestions are only numbers and can be discussed.

Very nice analysis of the disparity between Damage bonuses across the various classes AlienAtSystem! And that's just the Damage bonuses!  I also wrote up my own analysis based on my time with this game since the demo as it relates to this ongoing discussion. It's a bit different as it discusses how the Infiltrator not only is the best for it's intented roles but also how it better than half the classes at their roles. The analysis, and my subsequent replies, seem a good fit for this thread.

Peronally I don't care if they nerf Cloak or leave it be. I don't ever come on the forums to emotionally call for nerfs or buffs and honestly I wish there was less of it and a whole lot more strategy and build discussion.  I love playing every class and have completed gold runs with all of them even with all random teammates, especially back during the demo before weekly balance updates, before DLC weapon and race power creep, before FBWGG ever existed. Hell I've definitely played Infiltrators a little more than any other class simply because they're all so fun and also because it is undeniably easier to clutch a mission if I get paired with randoms that shouldn't actually be in a gold room yet. If Bioware wants to leave an easy class in their co-op game for people, that's fine.  Still if I was asked to objectively analyze how well the various classes fill their roles, I can not deny what I believe to be the truth of this snippet from my linked post:

The point is an Infiltrator can best perform it's intended roles as well as utilize weapons (and more weapons) better than an AR Soldier and has more survivability than a TA Sentinel.  And since Infiltrators have larger, and effectively even higher due to power while cloak from rank 1, weapon damage bonues than any other skill, it can do all this with all the advantages listed and be not only a better AoE controller but an AoE nuker than the caster classes with weapons like the Krysae and Scorpion.  This class is both a jack of all trades as well as a master of most.

+1

[AlienAtSystem]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

I am because silver players calling for nerfs is ridiculous, and anyone with even a tiny bit of skill can use any class on silver no problem. Calling weapons and classes overpowered when you're playing on easymode difficulty is stupid.

Silver is not easymode, or shouldn't be. The fact that you dismiss the point of the argument based on a not before mentioned premise on your side shows that you can't back your own argumentation up.

And why is sneaking not part of the Gameplay? As was mentioned numerous times here, most people prefer to see Infiltrators on gold that instead of cloak-cycling endlessly go around and support by doing objectives behind the enemies and to revive those in danger.

The premise for the analysis was that without modifiers, all powers are equal in their overall potential, includinh power combos and the possibility of grenade spam. And since Energy Drain (Salarian Infiltrator) is able to set off Tech Bursts and Arc Grenade (Quarian Male Infiltrator) is certainly spammable, considering them separately is not really tipping the scales.

[Mevanna]

Simbacca wrote...

AlienAtSystem wrote...

Introduction:
In order to end the endless discussions asout wether Tactical Cloak is overpowered or not, I finally decided to do the math for all of you.
In the following sections, I will compare an Infiltrator that has been specced for max in either weapon or power damage to the characters that lore-wise should be able to compete with the Infiltrator. That is the Human Soldier with his Adrenaline Rush for the Weapon Damage, and the Engineer for the Power Damage...

{body snipped for space concerns}

...Overall Conclusion
It is rather obvious that the Infiltrator, the Half Tech, Half Combat fighter of Mass Effect 1 has grown into something that outperforms both pure Combat Specialists and Tech Specialists, thanks to his tactical cloak. Since someone will drop the n-word anyway, I shall say it out loud: The Tactical Cloak needs to be nerfed.
My short-term suggestions: Reduce the Damage Bonus to 50% (30% initial, 20% on evolution) and the Force Multiplier of Sniper Rifles to 1.2. Decrease base Duration and increase Duration evolution gain to make infiltrators choose between survivability and damage.
My long-term suggestions: Make the Damage Bonus end immediately when a power is used. Make the Sniper Rifle bonus additive instead of multiplying. Have the Cooldown affected by encumbrance. Make the invisibility effect more effective to encourage sneaking instead of assassination.

Please Sign if you agree with me that the Tactical Cloak needs to be balanced. My suggestions are only numbers and can be discussed.

Very nice analysis of the disparity between Damage bonuses across the various classes AlienAtSystem! And that's just the Damage bonuses!  I also wrote up my own analysis based on my time with this game since the demo as it relates to this ongoing discussion. It's a bit different as it discusses how the Infiltrator not only is the best for it's intented roles but also how it better than half the classes at their roles. The analysis, and my subsequent replies, seem a good fit for this thread.

Peronally I don't care if they nerf Cloak or leave it be. I don't ever come on the forums to emotionally call for nerfs or buffs and honestly I wish there was less of it and a whole lot more strategy and build discussion.  I love playing every class and have completed gold runs with all of them even with all random teammates, especially back during the demo before weekly balance updates, before DLC weapon and race power creep, before FBWGG ever existed. Hell I've definitely played Infiltrators a little more than any other class simply because they're all so fun and also because it is undeniably easier to clutch a mission if I get paired with randoms that shouldn't actually be in a gold room yet. If Bioware wants to leave an easy class in their co-op game for people, that's fine.  Still if I was asked to objectively analyze how well the various classes fill their roles, I can not deny what I believe to be the truth of this snippet from my linked post:

The point is an Infiltrator can best perform it's intended roles as well as utilize weapons (and more weapons) better than an AR Soldier and has more survivability than a TA Sentinel.  And since Infiltrators have larger, and effectively even higher due to power while cloak from rank 1, weapon damage bonues than any other skill, it can do all this with all the advantages listed and be not only a better AoE controller but an AoE nuker than the caster classes with weapons like the Krysae and Scorpion.  This class is both a jack of all trades as well as a master of most.

This is a pretty good sum-up. Not too different from this thread's OP, but sadly enough, one well-made argument never changed the world. The same argument made several times by different people... yes.

[nicethugbert]

[quote]Lord Rosario wrote...

[quote]nicethugbert wrote...

[quote]Lord Rosario wrote...

[quote]nicethugbert wrote...

[quote]Lord Rosario wrote...

[quote]nicethugbert wrote...

Riddle me this:
If I "dump" aggro on my team, why would anyone want to play with me EVEN IF I make up for that with my damage output? It is a TEAM game.  Know anybody who sees tactcal cloak and thinks to themselves, "Awesome!  I so want to be a decoy and a bullet sponge!  I don't actually want to do anything but try to find cover only to be flushed out again and shreaded by crossfire as I run around.  I like lots of running around, especially by the infiltrators.  It makes stuff spawn everywhere so I can get mobbed so much easier.  Glad someone else can get us through the match."

Incidentally, my score is a lot better and the game a lot easier when I play infiltrator and I'm far from the best player, even without the Krysae or Reeger.  That is besides the point that tac cloak is UNFAIR to non-infiltrators.  It doesn't matter how shippy or not the infiltrator is.  Aggro dump is aggro dump, a decoy is a decoy,  a bullet sponge is a bullet sponge.  I don't want to play as decoy or bullet sponge.[/quote]

Salarian Engineers and Krogan Vanguards love to be bullet sponges! Anyhow, that aside, Infiltrators are supposed to make up for dumping agro on their team not with damage output. They are supposed to use that cloak to keep their team up and alive while using their other abilities as support [at least I think so]. Makes for an all around better experience for everyone.
[/quote]

Yeah, on Bronze where nothing can just strip away 1200 Shields with 30% DR in one shot.  Even 1600 shields with 30% DR is only good for one hit.  The second bites right into your health.  Sadly, Krogan don't regenerate as they are supposed to.

[/quote]

Try putting shield boost consumables and gear on. You will be untouchable. 3500 shields and you can tank two geth primes. For anything besides Geth, you really don't even need the consumables.

[/quote]

It's amazing what a flippant attitude people have towards the effect of infiltrators on the game, and on non-infiltrators, of the forced choice between playing decoy/bullet-sponge or not playing with people who play the class.  But, we must nerf the Krysae and Reeger.  Somehow, having to structure the game and one's game play around one class does not make that class OP.  But, Krysae and Reeger are OP.  So, those weapons must be nerfed yet the Infiltrator doesn't suffer from the nerf nearly as much as the other classes do.  By the time those guns are nerfed so that they are not WMD in the hands of an infiltrator, they'll be water guns in the hands of all the other classes.  But, the problem is still somehow not the infiltrator.

[/quote]

Where did I say infiltrators are not op? Here is my standpoint on infiltrators:

"Only good arguement I have heard on the side of not balancing the TC is
that many people will leave if Bioware does change it. That is not
acceptable to the creators of the game even if it means making the game
better. Tactical cloak in a nutshell: "They have higher weapon dps than a
soldier, better survivability than a sentinel, and better power damage
than an engineer." [quote from cuzIMgood] With a shotgun and high melee
an infiltrator is now better at close range than vanguards too and on
top of all that infiltrators make the best medics. PLEASE tell me how
that is not op? "

Being able to hide from enemies is not the problem with TC. There are a lot of issues with it, but that is the one thign it should do if nothing else.

[/quote]

I never said the infiltrator was OP.  I said it was UNFAIR.

[A Wild Snorlax]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

I am because silver players calling for nerfs is ridiculous, and anyone with even a tiny bit of skill can use any class on silver no problem. Calling weapons and classes overpowered when you're playing on easymode difficulty is stupid.

Silver is not easymode, or shouldn't be. The fact that you dismiss the point of the argument based on a not before mentioned premise on your side shows that you can't back your own argumentation up.

And why is sneaking not part of the Gameplay? As was mentioned numerous times here, most people prefer to see Infiltrators on gold that instead of cloak-cycling endlessly go around and support by doing objectives behind the enemies and to revive those in danger.

The premise for the analysis was that without modifiers, all powers are equal in their overall potential, includinh power combos and the possibility of grenade spam. And since Energy Drain (Salarian Infiltrator) is able to set off Tech Bursts and Arc Grenade (Quarian Male Infiltrator) is certainly spammable, considering them separately is not really tipping the scales.

Use any grenade class on silver and tell me it's not easy :/ Or equip a leveled harrier, paladin, talon, claymore, falcon, krysae, gps, black widow, saber, carnifex etc and tell me it's not easy.

Sneaking would be absolutely useless. At best you need to do objectives in stealth 3/11 rounds, usually it's only one or 2 rounds, and you can do that with cloak as it is now, same goes for reviving.. ''Supporting'' by reviving and getting behind enemies is absolutely useless anyway when you can just kill anything before this even becomes relevant. Unless you're doing an activation objective there's no need for stealth even if you're playing a drell on gold, so why would you need to sneak with a guy that allready can go invisible?

Once again, silver players trying to introduce nerfs that will also come into effect on gold is absolutely ridiculous. If the class is so overpowered on silver, go use it on gold. Based on what you're writing I bet that would be more than enough of a challenge for you.

And yes, silver easy mode. The amount of ''hard'' enemies you face compared to on gold is laughable. Bronze is hand-eye coordination problems mode.

[Mevanna]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

AlienAtSystem wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

I am because silver players calling for nerfs is ridiculous, and anyone with even a tiny bit of skill can use any class on silver no problem. Calling weapons and classes overpowered when you're playing on easymode difficulty is stupid.

Silver is not easymode, or shouldn't be. The fact that you dismiss the point of the argument based on a not before mentioned premise on your side shows that you can't back your own argumentation up.

And why is sneaking not part of the Gameplay? As was mentioned numerous times here, most people prefer to see Infiltrators on gold that instead of cloak-cycling endlessly go around and support by doing objectives behind the enemies and to revive those in danger.

The premise for the analysis was that without modifiers, all powers are equal in their overall potential, includinh power combos and the possibility of grenade spam. And since Energy Drain (Salarian Infiltrator) is able to set off Tech Bursts and Arc Grenade (Quarian Male Infiltrator) is certainly spammable, considering them separately is not really tipping the scales.

Use any grenade class on silver and tell me it's not easy :/ Or equip a leveled harrier, paladin, talon, claymore, falcon, krysae, gps, black widow, saber, carnifex etc and tell me it's not easy.

Sneaking would be absolutely useless. At best you need to do objectives in stealth 3/11 rounds, usually it's only one or 2 rounds, and you can do that with cloak as it is now, same goes for reviving.. ''Supporting'' by reviving and getting behind enemies is absolutely useless anyway when you can just kill anything before this even becomes relevant. Unless you're doing an activation objective there's no need for stealth even if you're playing a drell on gold, so why would you need to sneak with a guy that allready can go invisible?

Once again, silver players trying to introduce nerfs that will also come into effect on gold is absolutely ridiculous. If the class is so overpowered on silver, go use it on gold. Based on what you're writing I bet that would be more than enough of a challenge for you.

And yes, silver easy mode. The amount of ''hard'' enemies you face compared to on gold is laughable. Bronze is hand-eye coordination problems mode.

Look, either make sensible arguments instead of going 'you're all such N00bs' or find yourself a different thread to post in. We're trying to be constructive here, and you're not helping.

[A Wild Snorlax]

Mevanna wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

AlienAtSystem wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

I am because silver players calling for nerfs is ridiculous, and anyone with even a tiny bit of skill can use any class on silver no problem. Calling weapons and classes overpowered when you're playing on easymode difficulty is stupid.

Silver is not easymode, or shouldn't be. The fact that you dismiss the point of the argument based on a not before mentioned premise on your side shows that you can't back your own argumentation up.

And why is sneaking not part of the Gameplay? As was mentioned numerous times here, most people prefer to see Infiltrators on gold that instead of cloak-cycling endlessly go around and support by doing objectives behind the enemies and to revive those in danger.

The premise for the analysis was that without modifiers, all powers are equal in their overall potential, includinh power combos and the possibility of grenade spam. And since Energy Drain (Salarian Infiltrator) is able to set off Tech Bursts and Arc Grenade (Quarian Male Infiltrator) is certainly spammable, considering them separately is not really tipping the scales.

Use any grenade class on silver and tell me it's not easy :/ Or equip a leveled harrier, paladin, talon, claymore, falcon, krysae, gps, black widow, saber, carnifex etc and tell me it's not easy.

Sneaking would be absolutely useless. At best you need to do objectives in stealth 3/11 rounds, usually it's only one or 2 rounds, and you can do that with cloak as it is now, same goes for reviving.. ''Supporting'' by reviving and getting behind enemies is absolutely useless anyway when you can just kill anything before this even becomes relevant. Unless you're doing an activation objective there's no need for stealth even if you're playing a drell on gold, so why would you need to sneak with a guy that allready can go invisible?

Once again, silver players trying to introduce nerfs that will also come into effect on gold is absolutely ridiculous. If the class is so overpowered on silver, go use it on gold. Based on what you're writing I bet that would be more than enough of a challenge for you.

And yes, silver easy mode. The amount of ''hard'' enemies you face compared to on gold is laughable. Bronze is hand-eye coordination problems mode.

Look, either make sensible arguments instead of going 'you're all such N00bs' or find yourself a different thread to post in. We're trying to be constructive here, and you're not helping.

Don't like it don't read it, if you feel offended it's probably because what I'm saying applies to you. What I'm saying is true and based on extensive experience playing this game on gold. When I se terrible balancing ideas by obviously inexperienced players like those in the OP I'm going to disagree with it.

Also the OP's balancing changes would turn the infiltrator into a gimped soldier with tech powers, pretty much. No one in their right mind would pick them over say a human soldier.

Modifié par A Wild Snorlax, 15 juin 2012 - 08:55 .

[Kronner]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...
When I se terrible balancing ideas by obviously inexperienced players like those in the OP I'm going to disagree with it.

Also the OP's balancing changes would turn the infiltrator into a gimped soldier with tech powers, pretty much. No one in their right mind would pick them over say a human soldier.

Pretty much. The encumberance and damage nerf suggestions included in the OP are downright silly.

Modifié par Kronner, 15 juin 2012 - 09:00 .

[A Wild Snorlax]

Kronner wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...
When I se terrible balancing ideas by obviously inexperienced players like those in the OP I'm going to disagree with it.

Also the OP's balancing changes would turn the infiltrator into a gimped soldier with tech powers, pretty much. No one in their right mind would pick them over say a human soldier.

Pretty much. The encumberance and damage nerf suggestions included in the OP are downright silly.

Don't forget that he also wants to make the 2.5 second damage window or whatever it is apply to only the first power/shot fired, on top of a massive damage nerf and making you unable to carry heavy weapons like a claymoe and black widow/Widow/Javelin.

Yeah, solid and serious ''balance'' changes right there.

[defleshing]

bad thread op should feel bad. people shouldn't be punished for others short comings.

[Lord Rosario]

Kronner wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...
When I se terrible balancing ideas by obviously inexperienced players like those in the OP I'm going to disagree with it.

Also the OP's balancing changes would turn the infiltrator into a gimped soldier with tech powers, pretty much. No one in their right mind would pick them over say a human soldier.

Pretty much. The encumberance and damage nerf suggestions included in the OP are downright silly.

A gimped soldier with tech powers... hmm, that sounds similar to something? Perhaps the Sentinal that is a gimped soldier with biotic powers? A class isn't supposed to do everything better than someone who is experienced in just one thing. How stupid would it be if you made a warrior/mage in a fantasy game and it's spells were twice as strong as the best mage and it's weapon skills were twice as strong as the best warrior? That would just be plain silly.

Personally, I don't agree with the OP's proposed idea either, but something needs changing. Make it so that you have to choose between power damage and weapon damage for TC, fix it so weight actually matters, make sure that only the gun gets a damage boost from after TC drops or the power fired instead of both and as many shots as you can get off in 2.5 seconds.

Not asking that Infiltrators loose their ability to infiltrate or deal serious damage with their sniper/shotgun/melee/power, only that they have to choose one of these things to specialize in instead of all of it or even most of it.

[Kronner]

Lord Rosario wrote...
Personally, I don't agree with the OP's proposed idea either, but something needs changing. Make it so that you have to choose between power damage and weapon damage for TC, fix it so weight actually matters, make sure that only the gun gets a damage boost from after TC drops or the power fired instead of both and as many shots as you can get off in 2.5 seconds. 

 

Weight DOES matter. If you have heavy loadout and spend more than one second Cloaked, your CD will go through the roof. The misconception that weight is irrelevant really needs to stop.
Flamer is the same. If you use it briefly, your cooldown is low no matter what, but if you use it for a couple of seconds with a heavy loadout, you will have very long CD.

Lord Rosario wrote... 
Not asking that Infiltrators loose their ability to infiltrate or deal serious damage with their sniper/shotgun/melee/power, only that they have to choose one of these things to specialize in instead of all of it or even most of it.

The base Cloak duration could be significantly shorter, and then rank 4 Duration perk would give a much larger bonus.
As a result, you would either have Cloak as a damage power with a very short duration (4 seconds or so), so you could not maneuver that easily and could not escape from all dangerous situations OR you would have lower damage bonus (60% instead of 90%), but much longer duration (10+ seconds). A choice between utility and damage.