456 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Rosario]

defleshing wrote...

bad thread op should feel bad. people shouldn't be punished for others short comings.

Ok, lets make all the other classes as strong as the Infiltrator.

Lets start with the Human Soldier since it is already pretty close thanks to Adreneline Rush.

Just gotta give make it so when you use it, you get all your shields back instead of just base shields at evolution 6, increase melee damage by 140% while using adreneline rush, make it so that adreneline rush's cooldown is not effected by the weight of your guns, also it should increase the damage of Cuncussive shot and frag grenade by 90% when they are used durring adreneline rush. Then it will do about the same as the Infiltrator.

Ok, that wasn't so hard.. Only 24 more classes to go.....

[AlienAtSystem]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Don't forget that he also wants to
make the 2.5 second damage window or whatever it is apply to only the
first power/shot fired, on top of a massive damage nerf and making you
unable to carry heavy weapons like a claymoe and black
widow/Widow/Javelin.

Yeah, solid and serious ''balance'' changes right there.

Learn to read (Not that you can anymore, since you people seem to be unable to acknowledge facts if the suggestions rubs you the wrong way and I therefore removed them).
I never said to remove the Damage Window when a shot was fired. I said it should be removed when a power is used, so that an Infiltrator cannot have insane power damage and weapon damage at the same time.
And why exactly is the Infiltrator entitled to ignore the encumbrance mechanic when all other classes, including the much meatier Krogan, cannot?

defleshing wrote...

bad thread op should feel bad. people shouldn't be punished for others short comings.

And what other shortcomings do Infiltrators have?

Modifié par AlienAtSystem, 15 juin 2012 - 09:23 .

[defleshing]

tactical cloak is already bugged for one. dosnt stay on. i don't find any class has short comings tho just the people playing them. i can take any character on gold and do just fine. it takes practice but isn't that hard.

[Lord Rosario]

Kronner wrote...



Weight DOES matter. If you have heavy loadout and spend more than one second Cloaked, your CD will go through the roof. The misconception that weight is irrelevant really needs to stop.
Flamer is the same. If you use it briefly, your cooldown is low no matter what, but if you use it for a couple of seconds with a heavy loadout, you will have very long CD.

I know that, but it needs to matter even if you fire in that first second. Flamer does far less damage when canceled earlier [pointing out the obvious, I know] but TC doesn't loose any damage for being fired early. Perhaps a simple increase to it's base cooldown to maybe 8 or 9 seconds [which can then be reduced with evolutions]

[defleshing]

also grenades are the only thing in this game other than rockets that net kill streaks and every class has them. nades are op if anything. if you know how to play the game you wouldn't be complaining.

[Lord Rosario]

defleshing wrote...

also grenades are the only thing in this game other than rockets that net kill streaks and every class has them. nades are op if anything. if you know how to play the game you wouldn't be complaining.

You sir are an idiot. Please, for the sake of your dignity, just stop now.

[A Wild Snorlax]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Don't forget that he also wants to
make the 2.5 second damage window or whatever it is apply to only the
first power/shot fired, on top of a massive damage nerf and making you
unable to carry heavy weapons like a claymoe and black
widow/Widow/Javelin.

Yeah, solid and serious ''balance'' changes right there.

Learn to read (Not that you can anymore, since you people seem to be unable to acknowledge facts if the suggestions rubs you the wrong way and I therefore removed them).
I never said to remove the Damage Window when a shot was fired. I said it should be removed when a power is used, so that an Infiltrator cannot have insane power damage and weapon damage at the same time.
And why exactly is the Infiltrator entitled to ignore the encumbrance mechanic when all other classes, including the much meatier Krogan, cannot?

Heavy snipers were pretty much built for infiltrators, therefore. Also, try using a low level javelin on an infiltrator, your cooldown will be really slow if you stay cloaked for more than a few seconds.

If you want a serious suggestion for a nerf, make infiltrators unable to carry 2 weapons, or give cloak a longer base cooldown if you equip 2 weapons. The current system should however apply if you choose to carry one heavy weapon. If an infiltrator can't carry a black widow/javelin effectively then having those weapons are a waste of disc space, because no other classes can use them without severly gimping themselves.

Also your suggestion for removing the damage boost window after a power is retarded. In that case you might as well specc out of any power that isn't a grenade or hunter mode, because using a power would be a waste of your cloak.

[defleshing]

Lord Rosario wrote...

defleshing wrote...

also grenades are the only thing in this game other than rockets that net kill streaks and every class has them. nades are op if anything. if you know how to play the game you wouldn't be complaining.

You sir are an idiot. Please, for the sake of your dignity, just stop now.

your the one insulting people also you are on my friends list we have played. gold is easy dosnt need to be easyier. you should know this. this thread should be locked nothing productive going on here.let me restate that were on my friends list. and if i remember u play infiltrator. dosnt matter have fun trying to ruin the game for no reason. learn to play before calling for nerfs

[Lord Rosario]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

AlienAtSystem wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

Don't forget that he also wants to
make the 2.5 second damage window or whatever it is apply to only the
first power/shot fired, on top of a massive damage nerf and making you
unable to carry heavy weapons like a claymoe and black
widow/Widow/Javelin.

Yeah, solid and serious ''balance'' changes right there.

Learn to read (Not that you can anymore, since you people seem to be unable to acknowledge facts if the suggestions rubs you the wrong way and I therefore removed them).
I never said to remove the Damage Window when a shot was fired. I said it should be removed when a power is used, so that an Infiltrator cannot have insane power damage and weapon damage at the same time.
And why exactly is the Infiltrator entitled to ignore the encumbrance mechanic when all other classes, including the much meatier Krogan, cannot?

Heavy snipers were pretty much built for infiltrators, therefore. Also, try using a low level javelin on an infiltrator, your cooldown will be really slow if you stay cloaked for more than a few seconds.

If you want a serious suggestion for a nerf, make infiltrators unable to carry 2 weapons, or give cloak a longer base cooldown if you equip 2 weapons. The current system should however apply if you choose to carry one heavy weapon. If an infiltrator can't carry a black widow/javelin effectively then having those weapons are a waste of disc space, because no other classes can use them without severly gimping themselves.

Also your suggestion for removing the damage boost window after a power is retarded. In that case you might as well specc out of any power that isn't a grenade or hunter mode, because using a power would be a waste of your cloak.

Only replying to your second point... No, that would make the 6th evolution for Tactucal Cloak where you can fire off a power without revealing yourself very VERY useful. Would force you to have to choose between 40% sniper rifle damage boost or a 90% damage power boost in adition to the other boosts that you'd still get for TC and weapons. I don't think that is that bad a deal there.

[Chealec]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Only replying to your second point... No, that would make the 6th evolution for Tactucal Cloak where you can fire off a power without revealing yourself very VERY useful. Would force you to have to choose between 40% sniper rifle damage boost or a 90% damage power boost in adition to the other boosts that you'd still get for TC and weapons. I don't think that is that bad a deal there.

Makes Claymore Infils even more powerful though (relatively speaking with the changes in place)...

Modifié par Chealec, 15 juin 2012 - 09:46 .

[AlienAtSystem]

defleshing wrote...

your the one insulting people also you are on my friends list we have played. gold is easy dosnt need to be easyier. you should know this. this thread should be locked nothing productive going on here.

Thanks to you and wild snorlax. We had a productive, constructive and overall polite discussion going on before you started to go around throwing baseless assumptions. If you have nothing productive to say, then by the spirits, do not post! All you do with saying that you have nothing to say is that you ruin the thread for those that do.

[Lord Rosario]

defleshing wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

defleshing wrote...

also grenades are the only thing in this game other than rockets that net kill streaks and every class has them. nades are op if anything. if you know how to play the game you wouldn't be complaining.

You sir are an idiot. Please, for the sake of your dignity, just stop now.

your the one insulting people also you are on my friends list we have played. gold is easy dosnt need to be easyier. you should know this. this thread should be locked nothing productive going on here.let me restate that were on my friends list. and if i remember u play infiltrator. dosnt matter have fun trying to ruin the game for no reason. learn to play before calling for nerfs

I play all the classes for one.. also, if you bring nothing productive to the thread, you shouldn't be posting here. In adition to that, your posts honestly do sound stupid to me. I don't insult people's inteligence often, but when I do, it is usually called for. Grenades op because they have the ability to get killstreaks? Well, as far as I know none of them can deal much more than 1300 damage and that simply isn't enough to to deal the damage nessecary to bring down that many enemie on gold. On bronze, maybe if you threw 8 grenades, but there are far mor powerful things than that for mass damage on bronze.

[Lord Rosario]

Chealec wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Only replying to your second point... No, that would make the 6th evolution for Tactucal Cloak where you can fire off a power without revealing yourself very VERY useful. Would force you to have to choose between 40% sniper rifle damage boost or a 90% damage power boost in adition to the other boosts that you'd still get for TC and weapons. I don't think that is that bad a deal there.

Makes Claymore Infils even more powerful though (relatively speaking with the changes in place)...

Would keep Claymore infils up while knocking multi use ones down a bit. Seems good enough to me. Don't need major game breaking changes to fix things. :]

[astheoceansblue]

Kronner wrote...
Weight DOES matter. If you have heavy loadout and spend more than one second Cloaked, your CD will go through the roof. The misconception that weight is irrelevant really needs to stop.
Flamer is the same. If you use it briefly, your cooldown is low no matter what, but if you use it for a couple of seconds with a heavy loadout, you will have very long CD.

Only really matters if you get silly with your weapon choice, ie: two heavy weapons. 

infiltrators get to use any single weapon they want and, for the most part they fire as soon as they cloak so encumbrance is ignored. And even in those instances when they have to remain cloaked, there really is no single weapon in the game that cripples them with its CD, even at full duration.

The benefit far outweighs the cost.

[defleshing]

at lord..... your comments on nades show your lack of understanding of the game. you clearly have no idea what your taking about. which is why your points are invalid. have fun talking about things you clearly can't comprehend.

[Chealec]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Chealec wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Only replying to your second point... No, that would make the 6th evolution for Tactucal Cloak where you can fire off a power without revealing yourself very VERY useful. Would force you to have to choose between 40% sniper rifle damage boost or a 90% damage power boost in adition to the other boosts that you'd still get for TC and weapons. I don't think that is that bad a deal there.

Makes Claymore Infils even more powerful though (relatively speaking with the changes in place)...

Would keep Claymore infils up while knocking multi use ones down a bit. Seems good enough to me. Don't need major game breaking changes to fix things. :]

True enough - much better to make progressive small changes rather than big, potentially buggy/gamebreaking changes in one go.

I'd like to see the tier 4, 40% damage increase toned down to 30% (which you can easily recover with gear now) and a more meaningful alternative given - one that would actually make you consider taking something other than 4b for certain builds.

Maybe remove the TC damage bonus from powers (so wherever it says "increase damage" make that "increase weapon damage"), IMO Infiltrator's are primarily for weapons based damage, Engies should be primarily for Tech damage - Sabotage's Backfire would need buffing up again, but since that's specific to QFIs buffing it doesn't affect any Engineers.

[Lord Rosario]

defleshing wrote...

at lord..... your comments on nades show your lack of understanding of the game. you clearly have no idea what your taking about. which is why your points are invalid. have fun talking about things you clearly can't comprehend.

Evidence? Point? Prove me wrong? Nothing? Come on. How can you even claim that I don't comprehend these things if your entire arguement consists of "No, your wrong, you don't know what you're talking about." That is about the inteligence level of a 2 year old. Here, I'll even give evidence to back that up. often times a 2 year old childs is known to be in their "terrible twos." A time where their only reply to anything they don't like is "No."

[Frost Spectre]

There is also the "delayed decloak".

I think it should be fixed,
since Tact Cloak has evolution "Bonus Power". Since the "delayed
decloak" exists, "Bonus Power" evolution is more like downgrade than
upgrade, since one can use power and shoot with the damage bonuses while
"delayed decloak" and more damage for sniper rifle overweight it's opposite evolution.

It could be that making decloaking immedietely after firing a weapon or using a power (Don't be stupid, Damage bonus applies of course, there just won't be second shot or power usage), the damage bonuses of Tact Cloak could be left untouched.

Modifié par Frost Spectre, 15 juin 2012 - 10:04 .

[Poison_Berrie]

Kronner wrote...

Weight DOES matter. If you have heavy loadout and spend more than one second Cloaked, your CD will go through the roof. The misconception that weight is irrelevant really needs to stop.
Flamer is the same. If you use it briefly, your cooldown is low no matter what, but if you use it for a couple of seconds with a heavy loadout, you will have very long CD.

Weight does matter to a small extend. 
When you stay a little longer yes, you can't synch your cycle with your reload, but unless you are carrying two weapons your can get into cloak 1 to 3 seconds later than normal (assuming normal is about 4 seconds from breaking cloak).
In that time you've used an extra power and probably fired a few shots. If not you are either capping, reviving or not near any enemies. 

The base Cloak duration could be significantly shorter, and then rank 4 Duration perk would give a much larger bonus.
As a result, you would either have Cloak as a damage power with a very short duration (4 seconds or so), so you could not maneuver that easily and could not escape from all dangerous situations OR you would have lower damage bonus (60% instead of 90%), but much longer duration (10+ seconds). A choice between utility and damage.

A good point.
I'd say add to that either a power not being castable in cloak unless evolution 6 or having that power delete your weapon bonus to make the evolution 6 worthwile.

[defleshing]

Lord Rosario wrote...

defleshing wrote...

at lord..... your comments on nades show your lack of understanding of the game. you clearly have no idea what your taking about. which is why your points are invalid. have fun talking about things you clearly can't comprehend.

Evidence? Point? Prove me wrong? Nothing? Come on. How can you even claim that I don't comprehend these things if your entire arguement consists of "No, your wrong, you don't know what you're talking about." That is about the inteligence level of a 2 year old. Here, I'll even give evidence to back that up. often times a 2 year old childs is known to be in their "terrible twos." A time where their only reply to anything they don't like is "No."

your words. nades only effective on bronze and it takes 8 to geta killstreak. it in fact takes two grenades to get a killstreak on gold. you just arnt any good. deal.

Modifié par defleshing, 15 juin 2012 - 10:06 .

[Kronner]

astheoceansblue wrote...
Only really matters if you get silly with your weapon choice, ie: two heavy weapons. 

infiltrators get to use any single weapon they want and, for the most part they fire as soon as they cloak so encumbrance is ignored. And even in those instances when they have to remain cloaked, there really is no single weapon in the game that cripples them with its CD, even at full duration.

The benefit far outweighs the cost.

Well, Adrenaline Rush is barely affected by encumberance too. My Claymore HS has Arush cooldown of 3.33seconds. That is pretty much Cloak-like. And I do even more damage thanks to instareload feature of Arush and 6.8 second long window of 70% extra weapon damage. 

IMHO reducing the base Cloak duration while significantly increasing rank 4 duration evolution forces Infiltrators to choose between damage and utility. To make it more balanced, the base Cloak damage could be increased from 50% to 60%, while rank 4 damage evolution would be decreased from 40% to 30%.

As a result: you could have either 90% weapon damage bonus and 4s long Cloak or 60% weapon damage bonus and 10s long Cloak. Or something like that.

Modifié par Kronner, 15 juin 2012 - 10:07 .

[Lord Rosario]

defleshing wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

defleshing wrote...

at lord..... your comments on nades show your lack of understanding of the game. you clearly have no idea what your taking about. which is why your points are invalid. have fun talking about things you clearly can't comprehend.

Evidence? Point? Prove me wrong? Nothing? Come on. How can you even claim that I don't comprehend these things if your entire arguement consists of "No, your wrong, you don't know what you're talking about." That is about the inteligence level of a 2 year old. Here, I'll even give evidence to back that up. often times a 2 year old childs is known to be in their "terrible twos." A time where their only reply to anything they don't like is "No."

your words. nades only effective on bronze and it takes 8 to geta killstreak. it in fact takes two grenades to get a killstreak on gold. you just arnt any good. deal.

Which grenades? Which bonuses? Which classes? What enemies are you using them against? How much damage have they already taken? Why is getting a killstreak op?

[A Wild Snorlax]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

defleshing wrote...

your the one insulting people also you are on my friends list we have played. gold is easy dosnt need to be easyier. you should know this. this thread should be locked nothing productive going on here.

Thanks to you and wild snorlax. We had a productive, constructive and overall polite discussion going on before you started to go around throwing baseless assumptions. If you have nothing productive to say, then by the spirits, do not post! All you do with saying that you have nothing to say is that you ruin the thread for those that do.

The thing is some of the points in your original post are so poorly thought out and it's so very obvious that you've made them based on a general lack of experience or skill, or both. To me your suggestions are so bad that I'd consider it borderline trolling/griefing because I really can't tell if you're trying to ruin the game for others, or if you're just completely clueless and thus shouldn't be posting any balancing ideas whatsoever.

I would try to be productive and constructive if it seemed like you had even a little bit of understanding of how this game and the classes work on the higher difficulties, however it's pretty obvious that you don't and your original post is based on this lack of understanding, therefore I don't bother.

Modifié par A Wild Snorlax, 15 juin 2012 - 10:09 .

[Chealec]

Kronner wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...
Only really matters if you get silly with your weapon choice, ie: two heavy weapons. 

infiltrators get to use any single weapon they want and, for the most part they fire as soon as they cloak so encumbrance is ignored. And even in those instances when they have to remain cloaked, there really is no single weapon in the game that cripples them with its CD, even at full duration.

The benefit far outweighs the cost.

Well, Adrenaline Rush is barely affected by encumberance too. My Claymore HS has Arush cooldown of 3.33seconds. That is pretty much Cloak-like. And I do even more damage thanks to instareload feature of Arush and 6.8 second long window of 70% extra weapon damage. 

IMHO reducing the base Cloak duration while significantly increasing rank 4 duration evolution forces Infiltrators to choose between damage and utility. To make it more balanced, the base Cloak damage could be increased from 50% to 60%, while rank 4 damage evolution would be decreased from 40% to 30%.

As a result: you could have either 90% weapon damage bonus and 4s long Cloak or 60% weapon damage bonus and 10s long Cloak. Or something like that.

... that might actually work for ironing out that particular niggle I have with tier 4 - at the moment the incentive to choose 4a just isn't there.

[Quxorda]

TC is perfectly fine as it is, this isn't an E-sport and it doesn't need that fine a level of "balance". Nearly every class (if not all of them) have been used to solo gold, if Infiltrators were the only ones capable of that then there may be an issue - but they aren't by a long shot, they aren't necessarily even the best at it.

Stop worrying about a scoreboard that doesn't matter and just play the game, or don't and find a different game to play that you enjoy more.