456 réponses à ce sujet

[InfamousResult]

Kuato Livezz wrote...

There has been 15? MP balance changes. Nothing has nerfed the TC. What does that tell you? Its not being abused.

After 9 Balance Changes, they decreased the impact radius for Biotic Explosions- a power that affected not just one class, but at least half of them. Why is it unreasonable to think that it would then take 16 changes to rebalance Tactical Cloak, which only affects one class..?

[Demigod_3000]

Drussius wrote...

Demigod_3000 wrote...

Seriously. What are peoples' problems with TC? 'Scuse me Drussius, but we don't follow. Yeah, they can run and revive teammates safely, and yeah they can do the activate/deactivate objectives in secret, but THATS IT. Take away cloak, and the Infiltrator becomes a sorry support class. The only people playing it would be no-skill noobs who like the thought of turning invisible.

Demigod, you're calling out the wrong person. Thos comments about cloak being useful for those other things were directed AT me, not made BY me... Otherwise, to a point I agree with what you say here.

Yeah, mistake of ours. Sorry dude. We get fired up.

[Jernau11]

InfamousResult wrote...

Jernau11 wrote...

If those three reasons aren't enough to have you questioning bioware then I'm not sure what to tell you.

"Questioning" wasn't the point. "Proof" was. That's why it's called the burden of proof.

So, no, you're not sure what to tell me. I'm glad we got that out of the way.

I've always found it wise to know when your in a pissing match so you can avoid them. 

For any others, as I said:

Jernau11 wrote...

Id be happy to provide more evidence for this argument besides the ULM bug which 1.03 claimed to have fixed. This btw proves that their numbers are actually wrong. Look up ULM in the wiki and you'll see.

Lets look at another bioware game: Dragon Age. In dragon age the player base after extensive work managed to create a community patch which actually corrected the numerous bugs bioware included in its shipped final patched game. These included agro & healing increasing items not working as described. 

Second, biowares deliberate vagueness in its descriptions. At no point does bioware make it clear that the sniper bonus is a force multiplier vs a base multiplier. Anyone who's not in grade school sees the problems in this.

Modifié par Jernau11, 13 juin 2012 - 05:27 .

[ryoldschool]

No, just no. You guys are not game designers. I think the extended window for cloak damage bonus is for lag issues. Also some of the bonuses mentioned, proxy mine, are for all sources, not just infiltrator. Game is far from perfect but still fun as it is now.

[ryoldschool]

No, just no. You guys are not game designers. I think the extended window for cloak damage bonus is for lag issues. Also some of the bonuses mentioned, proxy mine, are for all sources, not just infiltrator. Game is far from perfect but still fun as it is now.

[AlienAtSystem]

Demigod_3000 wrote...

Seriously. What are peoples' problems with TC? 'Scuse me InfamousResult, but we don't follow. Yeah, they can run and revive teammates safely, and yeah they can do the activate/deactivate objectives in secret, but THATS IT.

How can you say such a thing when you just have to look at the numbers. 200% damage bonus, THATS IT.

Kuato Livezz wrote...

BW has stats. Not just stats on forum users or good players. Stats for all the players and in all game levels.

There has been 15? MP balance changes. Nothing has nerfed the TC. What does that tell you? Its not being abused.

The last released data showed Infiltrator usage at 19%, closely behind the Soldier. I guess it has been rising since then.

[ericjdev]

Infils should do the most damage. The only changes they should make to the cloak are 1) I shouldn't decloak immediately after cloaking 2)Geth rocket troopers shouldn't know where I am when I'm invisible. No way Bioware messes with them anyway, this whine-fest has been going on since the game started and it culminated in a minor Krysae nerf. If they nerf TC they have an outcry 20x what they have right now, trading a small group of jealous, i mean dissatisfied customers for a large group of them is never good business. If you want to be invisible, play an infilitrator.

[codename2o2]

Y'know, I would love it if bioware decided to do even a fraction of what this community suggested regarding TC. Know why? Because the amount of rage and outcry on these forums would be MONSTROUS.

Everyone would complain. EVERYONE. Why? Because the infiltrator couldn't take down the ravagers on the other side of the map before it killed everyone already. Because the infiltrator couldn't revive anyone because their TC was on cool down. Because the infiltrator couldn't get to the objective fast enough because their TC was once again on cool down.

Who gives a hoot about sneaking around and positioning against the enemy when you can't deliver the proper punch to said enemy to effectively and efficiently take them out.

All of this nerf/buff nonsense is completely moot, because in the end, bioware is in control, they know how each class works better than the most experienced players. If they feel something needs to be done, they will do it.

Modifié par codename2o2, 13 juin 2012 - 05:30 .

[Riscoliscious]

Leave the infiltrator alone!!! It does what it's supposed to do, deal large amounts of damage, primarily with weapons. If I take my Geth Infiltrator with a Valiant I (spec'd for no proximity mine) into a bronze match, I will typically destroy everything and score the most. However, on Gold, having 3 biotic specialists or 3 tech specialists and 1 infiltrator is best, and the only reason to not bring 4 biotic specialists or 4 tech specialists is because of cap objectives that are best for the infiltrator to do because of TC. Typically if I play a Gold match as an infiltrator with 3 engineers, I will score less than the rest because of all the tech explosions. So please BW, ignore these calls for nerfs on TC and leave it be. It does what it's supposed to do: MAKES THE GAME FUN. I love playing as Geth Engineer, Asari Adept, or even Turian Sentinel as well, so I'm not an infiltrator addict, but when I play as the infiltrator, I don't want to feel the same as when I'm playing another character. I want to watch things die quickly.

[Drussius]

Mevanna wrote...

Drussius wrote...
 But I'd love to see people offering ways to better balance this game without crying about more nerfs. Some POSITIVITY would be absolutely refreshing.

I hate repeating myself, but that is just not the issue. We want balance, that's all. It can take the form of nerfing everything down to Eagle level or buffing everything up to Geth Infiltrator level, but I'd prefer something in between.

You can balance things without any nerfing, sure... but if you get everything up to the level Infiltrators are on now, Gold difficulty will become the new Bronze, so I wouldn't recommend it.

So unless you want to pull all classes up to God Mode, balance is made up of buffs and nerfs.

But not everything should be buffed up to the level Infiltrators are at. Different classes are supposed to have different roles. I share everyone else's long-term goal in this discussion of seeing balance. But I'd like to see it achieved not by weakening good classes, but by bringing the others up, that's all. Infiltrators SHOULD be the kings of burst damage. That's what snipers do. Take out single targets with great efficiency. That's why I think they work well in their current form, albeit with a few glitches that could use some cleaning up.

But I'd love to see Bioware first give Soldiers an increase in weapon damage across the board... Nothing extreme, just something noticeable when you use a soldier with gun X and then some other class with the same gun. Soldiers should be proficient in dealing damage regardless of the weapon you put into their hands. Maybe also give engineers a boost to their Tech Power damage in the form of a passive increase. They should be awesome at Tech Powers. It makes sense. After these two buffs to classes that I sincerely feel NEED them, if the Infiltrator still seems horribly unbalanced to a fair number of people, THEN talk about nerfing the cloak.

THIS is the approach I'd like to see taken.

[Kuato Livezz]

Not saying its good or bad. If BW sees the stats rise above a certain threshold, I am sure they will do something about it. A good game relies on variety. Consistently joining games with 3 GI's or other infiltrator variants can get old.

If they do adjust the power:

adjust the 4th evo to sniper damage only.
only the first shot from the sniper rifle will carry the TC damage bonus.

[AlienAtSystem]

codename2o2 wrote...

Y'know, I would love it if bioware decided to do even a fraction of what this community suggested regarding TC. Know why? Because the amount of rage and outcry on these forums would be MONSTROUS.

Everyone would complain. EVERYONE. Why? Because the infiltrator couldn't take down the ravagers on the other side of the map before it killed everyone already. Because the infiltrator couldn't revive anyone because their TC was on cool down. Because the infiltrator couldn't get to the objective fast enough because their TC was once again on cool down.

Who gives a hoot about sneaking around and positioning against the enemy when you can't deliver the proper punch to said enemy to effectively and efficiently take them out.

All of this nerf/buff nonsense is completely moot, because in the end, bioware is in control, they know how each class works better than the most experienced players. If they feel something needs to be done, they will do it.

So basically, you want the Infiltrator to carry the team, and the rest is just support? Why not have the Soldier take down the Ravager while the Infiltrator focuses on reviving, disabling and getting the AI to run around like a headless chicken thanks to the "fire at last known position" tactic?

And I doubt BioWare knows how the game works in reality better than those people with an N7 score over 2000, simply because they have better things to do than play. I regularly design small board games, and continuosly loose when playing them. Knowing the Code and knowing the balance are two different things.

[mpompeo27]

Thoroughly opposed. Infiltrators are fine, and don't need a nerf. And this is coming from someone who barely uses them. I outperform infiltrators all the time with my soldiers and engineers. Player skill and effective tactics matter significantly more than any damage bonus. Fact.

On the flip-side, to those of you saying that a reduction in the Tac Cloak damage bonus would cripple the Infiltrator you are definitely overreacting. "Oh no! My dear Infiltrator's damage bonus is ONLY 50%! What ever shall I do?" Seriously? Are you really that incapable of functioning without a massive 90% damage bonus? Infiltrators would still be awesome. Period.

But I digress. Even though I recognize that Infiltrators would still be fine even if Tac Cloak was nerfed, I still oppose this idea.

Modifié par mpompeo27, 13 juin 2012 - 05:39 .

[Riscoliscious]

codename2o2 wrote...

Y'know, I would love it if bioware decided to do even a fraction of what this community suggested regarding TC. Know why? Because the amount of rage and outcry on these forums would be MONSTROUS.

Everyone would complain. EVERYONE. Why? Because the infiltrator couldn't take down the ravagers on the other side of the map before it killed everyone already. Because the infiltrator couldn't revive anyone because their TC was on cool down. Because the infiltrator couldn't get to the objective fast enough because their TC was once again on cool down.

Who gives a hoot about sneaking around and positioning against the enemy when you can't deliver the proper punch to said enemy to effectively and efficiently take them out.

All of this nerf/buff nonsense is completely moot, because in the end, bioware is in control, they know how each class works better than the most experienced players. If they feel something needs to be done, they will do it.

This.

[Kronner]

Kuato Livezz wrote...

Not saying its good or bad. If BW sees the stats rise above a certain threshold, I am sure they will do something about it. A good game relies on variety. Consistently joining games with 3 GI's or other infiltrator variants can get old.

If they do adjust the power:

adjust the 4th evo to sniper damage only.
only the first shot from the sniper rifle will carry the TC damage bonus.

Yea, and those of us who like to play backstabbing Infiltrator with a shotgun get booted? GTFO.

[Demigod_3000]

ericjdev wrote...

Infils should do the most damage. The only changes they should make to the cloak are 1) I shouldn't decloak immediately after cloaking 2)Geth rocket troopers shouldn't know where I am when I'm invisible. No way Bioware messes with them anyway, this whine-fest has been going on since the game started and it culminated in a minor Krysae nerf. If they nerf TC they have an outcry 20x what they have right now, trading a small group of jealous, i mean dissatisfied customers for a large group of them is never good business. If you want to be invisible, play an infilitrator.

You've got the right idea. The Infiltrator class has to deal with bugs that most of you other classes (we're looking at you, biotic power auto-aim spammers) don't have to deal with. Quit the whining and get a grip on reality. Isn't the truth obvious, people?

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

[Commander Castillo]

Keep dreaming guy. Bioware won't nerf tactical cloak because of your stupid petition. Besides who the hell are you to decide what needs to be done to a class so it can be "balanced".

[ryoldschool]

I guess nobody considers lag or that shotgun infiltrators are fun either.

[AlienAtSystem]

Stop posting these useless images. This crap is what turns serious threads into flamewars.

And for those to slow to have realized it by now: The Damage bonus of the Cloak lasts for approximately 1.5 seconds after the decloak animation begins. That is enough for 2 Black Widow Shots or three Valiant Shots, not to forget the power you can use beforehand.

[Kronner]

Commander Castillo wrote...

Keep dreaming guy. Bioware won't nerf tactical cloak because of your stupid petition. Besides who the hell are you to decide what needs to be done to a class so it can be "balanced".

This. So much this.

The TC nerf crybabies are the bane of this forum.

[Demigod_3000]

Drussius wrote...

Mevanna wrote...

Drussius wrote...
 But I'd love to see people offering ways to better balance this game without crying about more nerfs. Some POSITIVITY would be absolutely refreshing.

I hate repeating myself, but that is just not the issue. We want balance, that's all. It can take the form of nerfing everything down to Eagle level or buffing everything up to Geth Infiltrator level, but I'd prefer something in between.

You can balance things without any nerfing, sure... but if you get everything up to the level Infiltrators are on now, Gold difficulty will become the new Bronze, so I wouldn't recommend it.

So unless you want to pull all classes up to God Mode, balance is made up of buffs and nerfs.

But not everything should be buffed up to the level Infiltrators are at. Different classes are supposed to have different roles. I share everyone else's long-term goal in this discussion of seeing balance. But I'd like to see it achieved not by weakening good classes, but by bringing the others up, that's all. Infiltrators SHOULD be the kings of burst damage. That's what snipers do. Take out single targets with great efficiency. That's why I think they work well in their current form, albeit with a few glitches that could use some cleaning up.

But I'd love to see Bioware first give Soldiers an increase in weapon damage across the board... Nothing extreme, just something noticeable when you use a soldier with gun X and then some other class with the same gun. Soldiers should be proficient in dealing damage regardless of the weapon you put into their hands. Maybe also give engineers a boost to their Tech Power damage in the form of a passive increase. They should be awesome at Tech Powers. It makes sense. After these two buffs to classes that I sincerely feel NEED them, if the Infiltrator still seems horribly unbalanced to a fair number of people, THEN talk about nerfing the cloak.

THIS is the approach I'd like to see taken.

We wouldn't mind seeing this at all. This is a sensible approach to things. We despise that "crying over spilled milk" tactic that we've seen in most anti-inf posts.

[Riscoliscious]

How about if you don't like the current balance on the Infiltrator class, don't allow them into your lobbies? Or balance the class yourself by only using TC to res or do objectives, or don't take the last evolution that gives sniper rifles 40% damage boost? That way the rest of us (a LOT of us) can enjoy the class as it is, and you can enjoy it as you think it should be.  Just "balance" the class yourself.

Modifié par Riscoliscious, 13 juin 2012 - 05:43 .

[Seifer006]

Kronner wrote...

Commander Castillo wrote...

Keep dreaming guy. Bioware won't nerf tactical cloak because of your stupid petition. Besides who the hell are you to decide what needs to be done to a class so it can be "balanced".

This. So much this.

The TC nerf crybabies are the bane of this forum.

LMAO! This

bunch of nerf crybabies. get a life. Diablo 3 is out. Try that game, since you don't like ME:3 MP

Modifié par Seifer006, 13 juin 2012 - 05:44 .

[Drussius]

I just want to point out before I abandon this thread altogether that this is a pointless argument anyway. Infiltrator Haters are going to continue to argue that cloak is overpowered no matter what is said. Infiltrator Players will keep arguing that the cloak is fine.

And people like me, who feel that other things are more important to address first will continue to draw criticism and support from both sides. And so, let the argument continue. I think I'll just go PLAY.

[Manuel La Bor]

Gust4v wrote...

/Not signed

% doesn't mean much if you are ignoring the skills of each class. Also, infiltrators can't spam powers like the other caster classes.

They don't really need to spam powers. 

Cloak, Fire proxymine/Energy Drain, Shoot, 3 second cooldown, repeat. 

What needs to be toned down is the time after de cloaking that you have the damage boost active, 2.5 seconds is long enough to fire a claymore - reload cancel and fire again. That is absolutely INSANE damage potential.