456 réponses à ce sujet

[AlienAtSystem]

Commander Castillo wrote...

Keep dreaming guy. Bioware won't nerf tactical cloak because of your stupid petition. Besides who the hell are you to decide what needs to be done to a class so it can be "balanced".

I intended to release the thread without a suggestion, but that would have seemed strange to most people. I am not suggesting anything, really. I merely gave you the numbers so that you are allowed to choke on that "Reduce TC bonus and the class becomes crap."

[InfamousResult]

OP posts facts. Hard numbers. Proof.

General response is "no don't do it it's FINE".

.. Oh. Well, that sure is a compelling argument.

[Demigod_3000]

Drussius wrote...

I just want to point out before I abandon this thread altogether that this is a pointless argument anyway. Infiltrator Haters are going to continue to argue that cloak is overpowered no matter what is said. Infiltrator Players will keep arguing that the cloak is fine.

And people like me, who feel that other things are more important to address first will continue to draw criticism and support from both sides. And so, let the argument continue. I think I'll just go PLAY.

Well said man. We can say right now that the biggest problem on our list is not this cess pool of a thread. We are gone.

[Mevanna]

Riscoliscious wrote...

How about if you don't like the current balance on the Infiltrator class, don't allow them into your lobbies? Or balance the class yourself by only using TC to res or do objectives, or don't take the last evolution that gives sniper rifles 40% damage boost? That way the rest of us (a LOT of us) can enjoy the class as it is, and you can enjoy it as you think it should be.  Just "balance" the class yourself.

Really? This is the Krysae all over again. Wish I had a dollar for every time someone says "If you don't like it, don't use it."

I do like it. Everyone likes Infiltrator, because of course playing in God Mode makes you feel good.
And shame on me if I actually want to play fair...

[sliverofamoon]

Drussius wrote...

I fail to see why everyone is so adamant that Infiltrators get nerfed. While I think the Male Quarian version is a bit too cool with the massive area of the Arc Grenade, if you nerf Tactical Cloak, you nerf everything that makes Infiltrators any good. Cut the damage bonuses in half (total) and you have a weak, barely-worthwhile class with little to no synergy between the other abilities. People need to stop asking for nerfs for good classes, and instead look for ways to buff the sub-par classes.

It's soldiers, sentinels and some engineers that need some buffs in my view, not Infiltrators that need nerfs. And before anyone claims I'm an infiltrator fanatic, I play all classes equally. I find Soldiers and Sentinels to be underwhelming, not any other classes to be overwhelming.

^This!^
Leave TC alone! I don't see an actual poll, or I would have voted no.

[Malditor]

Mevanna wrote...

Riscoliscious wrote...

How about if you don't like the current balance on the Infiltrator class, don't allow them into your lobbies? Or balance the class yourself by only using TC to res or do objectives, or don't take the last evolution that gives sniper rifles 40% damage boost? That way the rest of us (a LOT of us) can enjoy the class as it is, and you can enjoy it as you think it should be.  Just "balance" the class yourself.

Really? This is the Krysae all over again. Wish I had a dollar for every time someone says "If you don't like it, don't use it."

I do like it. Everyone likes Infiltrator, because of course playing in God Mode makes you feel good.
And shame on me if I actually want to play fair...

Not everyone likes playing Infiltrator, and you calling it "god mode" isn't accurate because you are definitely able to be killed by a lot of different things.

[codename2o2]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

Y'know, I would love it if bioware decided to do even a fraction of what this community suggested regarding TC. Know why? Because the amount of rage and outcry on these forums would be MONSTROUS.

Everyone would complain. EVERYONE. Why? Because the infiltrator couldn't take down the ravagers on the other side of the map before it killed everyone already. Because the infiltrator couldn't revive anyone because their TC was on cool down. Because the infiltrator couldn't get to the objective fast enough because their TC was once again on cool down.

Who gives a hoot about sneaking around and positioning against the enemy when you can't deliver the proper punch to said enemy to effectively and efficiently take them out.

All of this nerf/buff nonsense is completely moot, because in the end, bioware is in control, they know how each class works better than the most experienced players. If they feel something needs to be done, they will do it.

So basically, you want the Infiltrator to carry the team, and the rest is just support? Why not have the Soldier take down the Ravager while the Infiltrator focuses on reviving, disabling and getting the AI to run around like a headless chicken thanks to the "fire at last known position" tactic?

And I doubt BioWare knows how the game works in reality better than those people with an N7 score over 2000, simply because they have better things to do than play. I regularly design small board games, and continuosly loose when playing them. Knowing the Code and knowing the balance are two different things.

You're putting words in my mouth. The goal in everyone's mind should be to not be downed at all so revives are not necessary. The soldier shouldn't have to take the ravagers out from across the map while a banshee is bearing down on the rest of the team. Because of the role infiltrators play now, they are the best equipped to deal with long range threats like that so everyone can focus on the stuff in the teams face. Of course there are those who choose to deal with everything with a shotgun but that's on the player, not the class.

And you're trying to make an argument that someone with a high "score"(if N7 levels can be called that) knows a game better than the developer and creator of said "score". No one here has inside access to bioware information so there are no grounds to make the assumption that they don't know what their doing. Of course there is also no grounds to make the opposite claim but it's a safe bet to say they do because they designed it. Anecdotal refrences are moot because everyone is fundamentally different from everyone else.

Modifié par codename2o2, 13 juin 2012 - 05:52 .

[sirjimmus86]

Can someone make a petition to leave TC alone ?

[Kronner]

InfamousResult wrote...

OP posts facts. Hard numbers. Proof.

General response is "no don't do it it's FINE".

.. Oh. Well, that sure is a compelling argument.

OP is not thought out well.

Sniper Rifles may get insane bonus, but they will never one shot a stupid Centurion anyway. All that damage is wasted.

Yes, you get high damage bonus for other weapons too, but that is because Infiltrator is a freaking weapon oriented class.
Soldier has better sustained DPS, Infiltrator is the king of burst DPS. What the hell is the problem here?

At least Infiltrator requires you to aim well. If you miss, all the bonuses in the world are ****ing useless.

Meanwhile, asari adept etc. can spam auto-aim powers that do AoE damage and/or stagger enemies or even enemy groups (Overload). But somehow Cloak needs a freaking 40% weapon damage nerf, shorter damage bonus window and longer cooldown. LOL

Bunch of crybabies are ruining this forum.

[Skyance]

I just find it funny how you're using DAMAGE as a reason to nerf the TC. There's a reason why there are DIFFERENT classes in ME3: to perform DIFFERENT roles in a game. Some are better off as support while others are good for blowing enemies apart - fast. If the infiltrators aren't the ones to dole out massive damage to save your behind, then who is? The squishy adept with a missile launcher? The NovaGuard charging around the map on GOLD? None of the other classes can kill things efficiently, and by efficiently, I mean quickly without glitching/lagging.

And I certainly hope that you know that whatever model your using here doesn't always find up being the case in in-game situations. The soldier taking the down the ravager? Here's praying that there aren't 2 banshees chasing him/her.

[Cyonan]

A few notes:

> Turian Soldiers have Proxy Mine, it's not a Salarian and Geth only thing.
> A Salarian with a Sniper Rifle is +257% damage, not +286%. They don't equal Geth since they lack Hunter Mode. Salarian other weapon will be +155%.
> Human Infiltrator with Sniper Rifle is +205% damage. Alliance training offers better weapon damage. Human Infiltrator with other weapon will be 218%
> Humans only get 35% power damage from Alliance Training.
> You're making them look a lot better by letting them have some theoretical spec where they have 22.5% weapon damage and 45% power damage at the same time.

Power damage is also going to be a weird thing to calculate properly. You're right in saying that cooldowns as a force multiplier is incorrect. The higher your % is, the less effective getting more of it becomes. Tactical Cloak also has the cooldown override built into it, my QFI's Sabotage has an 8.48 second cooldown, but I can use it every 3 seconds if I'm shooting right away with TC.

Of course, there's also the fact that a Human Soldier can be basically just as effective as a non Geth/Quarian Male Infiltrator.

Modifié par Cyonan, 13 juin 2012 - 05:56 .

[Malditor]

http://social.biowar...14/polls/35267/

You can put your votes for or against change of TC. Just because I saw someone say a poll should be here. Not that I have a lot of faith in polls though rofl.

Modifié par Malditor, 13 juin 2012 - 05:57 .

[Manuel La Bor]

Drussius wrote...

I just want to point out before I abandon this thread altogether that this is a pointless argument anyway. Infiltrator Haters are going to continue to argue that cloak is overpowered no matter what is said. Infiltrator Players will keep arguing that the cloak is fine.

My most played class is infiltrator, geth specifically. And I believe that TC needs to have more of a drawback for the amount of +'s it gives you. Especially the 2.5 seconds of enhanced damage after you de cloak. 

One thing though, reducing the damage bonus from TC will basically force me into using the claymore exclusively. As my eviserator and wraith build (If I ever get it) will not be able to perform to an acceptable standard. Right now I can 1 shot headshot any non boss unit, and 2 shot body shot almost every non boss unit (damn hunters). Reducing the TC damage bonus significantly (say down to 40% total) basically makes this build less than obsolete, but the claymore is still 1 shot to every non boss even at great ranges. What a TC damage nerf would really do is make boss units take 1-2 more shots to kill from the big guns, but it would strangle anyone who tries to use other (weaker) weapons. 

So in short, don't nerf the damage. Find some other way to balance out the insane damage potential. 

[Tankcommander]

Drussius wrote...

I fail to see why everyone is so adamant that Infiltrators get nerfed. While I think the Male Quarian version is a bit too cool with the massive area of the Arc Grenade, if you nerf Tactical Cloak, you nerf everything that makes Infiltrators any good. Cut the damage bonuses in half (total) and you have a weak, barely-worthwhile class with little to no synergy between the other abilities. People need to stop asking for nerfs for good classes, and instead look for ways to buff the sub-par classes.

It's soldiers, sentinels and some engineers that need some buffs in my view, not Infiltrators that need nerfs. And before anyone claims I'm an infiltrator fanatic, I play all classes equally. I find Soldiers and Sentinels to be underwhelming, not any other classes to be overwhelming.

You sir deserve an award. Batarian and Vorcha Soldiers rock, but the rest need more weapon damage. Sentinels, well that's the only class I don't play so I'm not qualified to say.

[audicdm]

Well written analysis.
+7 on Xbox

[Mevanna]

Skyance wrote...

I just find it funny how you're using DAMAGE as a reason to nerf the TC. There's a reason why there are DIFFERENT classes in ME3: to perform DIFFERENT roles in a game. Some are better off as support while others are good for blowing enemies apart - fast. If the infiltrators aren't the ones to dole out massive damage to save your behind, then who is? The squishy adept with a missile launcher? The NovaGuard charging around the map on GOLD? None of the other classes can kill things efficiently, and by efficiently, I mean quickly without glitching/lagging.

So you're saying "Everyone should just play Infiltrators since they're the only class that's any good at this game." 
Way to go...

[taomang]

lol what a ridiculous thread

[Malditor]

Mevanna wrote...

Skyance wrote...

I just find it funny how you're using DAMAGE as a reason to nerf the TC. There's a reason why there are DIFFERENT classes in ME3: to perform DIFFERENT roles in a game. Some are better off as support while others are good for blowing enemies apart - fast. If the infiltrators aren't the ones to dole out massive damage to save your behind, then who is? The squishy adept with a missile launcher? The NovaGuard charging around the map on GOLD? None of the other classes can kill things efficiently, and by efficiently, I mean quickly without glitching/lagging.

So you're saying "Everyone should just play Infiltrators since they're the only class that's any good at this game." 
Way to go...

Way to seriously twist the statement made. You should maybe make an actual intelligent statement instead of an inane comment like that.

[richcz3]

Signed

This really is Infiltrator vs Infiltrator
So many Infiltrator players over the past months have been using their class to showcase how overpowered weapons are. Never taking into consideration that Tactical Cloak makes most any weapon OP - Hello Krysae Sniper Rifle Nerf.

Of course people who use other classes don't feel weapons are OP and so the heated debates continue. There is no way Bioware is going to Buff the other classes because one power of one class is OP
Once TC is balanced, it won't be used as a benchmark for demonstrating OP weapons.

With that said Bioware - Fix the uncloak bug. That has to one of the most annoying bugs a player has to contend with playing the Infiltrator class

[AlienAtSystem]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I mean seriously, Infiltrators rely on snipers. Infiltrators need a one shot kill. If it takes more than one shot to take someone down, odds are the Infiltrator is not going to survive that encounter.

Somehow, Infiltrators still top scoreboards on Gold where you need two shots to take everything down. I am not against Sniper Rifles ignoring Shieldsgate. I am just poiting out that an Infiltrator makes every gun work in his hands better than a Soldier does, or make every power user look weak.

Cyonan wrote...

A few notes:

> Turian Soldiers have Proxy Mine, it's not a Salarian and Geth only thing.
>
A Salarian with a Sniper Rifle is +257% damage, not +286%. They don't
equal Geth since they lack Hunter Mode. Salarian other weapon will be
+155%.
> Human Infiltrator with Sniper Rifle is +205% damage.
Alliance training offers better weapon damage. Human Infiltrator with
other weapon will be 218%
> Humans only get 35% power damage from Alliance Training.
>
You're making them look a lot better by letting them have some
theoretical spec where they have 22.5% weapon damage and 45% power
damage at the same time.

Power damage is also going to be a weird
thing to calculate properly. You're right in saying that cooldowns as a
force multiplier is incorrect. The higher your % is, the less effective
getting more of it becomes. Tactical Cloak also has the cooldown
override built into it, my QFI's Sabotage has an 8.48 second cooldown,
but I can use it every 3 seconds if I'm shooting right away with TC.

Of
course, there's also the fact that a Human Soldier can be basically
just as effective as a non Geth/Quarian Male Infiltrator.

Thanks for the corrections. It is a good thing to see someone do the math. I think I pointed out that they are different specs and that their weapon/power damage is lower, but still higher than that of the other class.
And I don't see how a Human Soldier is just as effective as a weak infiltrator, given their lower damage bonus over an on average lesser percentage of time.

[Kronner]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

Somehow, Infiltrators still top scoreboards on Gold where you need two shots to take everything down. I am not against Sniper Rifles ignoring Shieldsgate. I am just poiting out that an Infiltrator makes every gun work in his hands better than a Soldier does, or make every power user look weak.

Correction: Good Infiltrators top the scoreboard. I've outscored so many Infiltrators while using non-Infiltrator classes it's not even funny. Fact is that majority of random Infiltrators suck. Like I said before, Cloak is not a magical button that turns any player into a dominant force.

[BlackoutOmega]

 

Every. Single. Day. Can you people just shut up and enjoy the game? It seems like all you can do is whine and complain about things being OP and unbalanced when this is a co-op game. It's about the team winning, not about how many points you get. Have you ever thought that BSN is only a small fraction of the people who play ME3 MP? Just because a decent amount of people here want to ruin the game for people who enjoy it the way it is, doesn't mean the majority of people do.
Everytime I get a new favorite class or weapon that I have a ton of fun with, it gets nerfed because of the volume of people who can't just move to a different game if they don't like how it is.

[Shampoohorn]

Kronner wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

OP posts facts. Hard numbers. Proof.

General response is "no don't do it it's FINE".

.. Oh. Well, that sure is a compelling argument.

OP is not thought out well.

Sniper Rifles may get insane bonus, but they will never one shot a stupid Centurion anyway. All that damage is wasted.

Yes, you get high damage bonus for other weapons too, but that is because Infiltrator is a freaking weapon oriented class.
Soldier has better sustained DPS, Infiltrator is the king of burst DPS. What the hell is the problem here?

At least Infiltrator requires you to aim well. If you miss, all the bonuses in the world are ****ing useless.

Meanwhile, asari adept etc. can spam auto-aim powers that do AoE damage and/or stagger enemies or even enemy groups (Overload). But somehow Cloak needs a freaking 40% weapon damage nerf, shorter damage bonus window and longer cooldown. LOL

Bunch of crybabies are ruining this forum.

Cloaked infiltrators also get damage and cooldown buffs to power use.  Proximine and ED are good examples of this.  SI can outdamage and outcast an SE.  So it's not just weapon damage on a 'weapon oriented class'.

Calling people crybabies is useless. The majority of criticism, including some of yours involve name calling, strawmen or ignorance.  Do better?