456 réponses à ce sujet

[Mevanna]

Malditor wrote...

Mevanna wrote...

So you're saying "Everyone should just play Infiltrators since they're the only class that's any good at this game." 
Way to go...

Way to seriously twist the statement made. You should maybe make an actual intelligent statement instead of an inane comment like that.

Skyance  wrote...

None of the other classes can kill things efficiently

Yes, of course. I must have completely misunderstood that.

So what are they there for, then? Reviving others? No, that's Infiltrators. Devices objectives. Infiltrators. Support? Distracting enemies? Also Infiltrators.

Modifié par Mevanna, 13 juin 2012 - 06:20 .

[AlienAtSystem]

Kronner wrote...

Correction: Good Infiltrators top the scoreboard. I've outscored so many Infiltrators while using non-Infiltrator classes it's not even funny. Fact is that majority of random Infiltrators suck. Like I said before, Cloak is not a magical button that turns any player into a dominant force.

While I agree that Infiltrator is difficult to play, I don't see why that gives them the right to be over the top, especially now that Quarian Male Infiltrators and the Krysae made Area of Effect infiltrators possible.

[Drummernate]

Re-buff the Geth.


Then think about nerfing anything else.

[Cyonan]

AlienAtSystem wrote...
Thanks for the corrections. It is a good thing to see someone do the math. I think I pointed out that they are different specs and that their weapon/power damage is lower, but still higher than that of the other class.
And I don't see how a Human Soldier is just as effective as a weak infiltrator, given their lower damage bonus over an on average lesser percentage of time.

It's because of a myriad of reasons. In the end though, our all Human Soldier speed run came within 10% of the world record held by some of the guys in the group. The record setup I believe was 2 GIs and 2 QMIs.

Video can be found here:

So they aren't quite as efficient as the QMI/GI setup, but they still kill incredibly fast. I would say being able to get within 10% is fairly good for a PvE oriented game.

[Malditor]

Mevanna wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Mevanna wrote...

So you're saying "Everyone should just play Infiltrators since they're the only class that's any good at this game." 
Way to go...

Way to seriously twist the statement made. You should maybe make an actual intelligent statement instead of an inane comment like that.

Malditor wrote...

None of the other classes can kill things efficiently

Yes, of course. I must have completely misunderstood that.

So what are they there for, then? Reviving others? No, that's Infiltrators. Devices objectives. Infiltrators. Support? Distracting enemies? Also Infiltrators.

Nice try, I know for a fact I didn't say that. Twisting posts does nothing to support your side. I can play multiple other class/race set ups and do as well as I do with inf. Also, distracting enemies is done well by engineers or biotics too and anyone can revive others, I do it often regardless of class I'm playing.... So yeah nice try

[AlienAtSystem]

Shampoohorn wrote...
Cloaked infiltrators also get damage and cooldown buffs to power use.  Proximine and ED are good examples of this.  SI can outdamage and outcast an SE.  So it's not just weapon damage on a 'weapon oriented class'.

Calling people crybabies is useless. The majority of criticism, including some of yours involve name calling, strawmen or ignorance.  Do better?

Thanks for a bit constructive critisism. I hoped to make the discussion a bit more objective by giving everyone the numbers, but seems like I failed.

[Immortal Strife]

InfamousResult wrote...

OP posts facts. Hard numbers. Proof.

General response is "no don't do it it's FINE".

.. Oh. Well, that sure is a compelling argument.

Could you really be swayed the other way? I have not once in all the nerf threads seen you acknowledge a counter argument as a legitament point. Based on your post history I think it's fair to say your opinion lays in concrete, so why then ask for any "proof".


*btw I agree the infiltrator could use a small nerf.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 13 juin 2012 - 06:17 .

[Mevanna]

Drummernate wrote...

Re-buff the Geth.


Then think about nerfing anything else.

I'm pretty sure the HM nerf was an attempt to get at the GI anyway, and it just hit the wrong character entirely. This is why I support the TC fix in the first place, so Bioware can stop nerfing other stuff when TC is where the problem lies.

[-Event-Horizon-]

Soo many infiltrator trolls, trying to defend a clearly unbalanced power. Its like a marijuana dealer trying to defend his stash from the cops.

[Mevanna]

EDIT : Removed, clicked on wrong button ^^

Modifié par Mevanna, 13 juin 2012 - 06:23 .

[Meatiershower]

Signed. No reason to have that massive of a damage modifier over other classes. Buff those classes, or cut the infinltrator back. Not much, just some. Attacking from cloak should do a lot of damage due to surprise.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

It needs to be balanced in some way. If not by reducing the damage buff, then by elevating all other classes in some way. Right now, TC is far and away the most powerful weapon in the game, and it isn't even close.

[Mevanna]

Malditor wrote...

Nice try, I know for a fact I didn't say that. Twisting posts does nothing to support your side. I can play multiple other class/race set ups and do as well as I do with inf. Also, distracting enemies is done well by engineers or biotics too and anyone can revive others, I do it often regardless of class I'm playing.... So yeah nice try

Sorry, checked and realized it was actually someone else's statement, you were just defending it as though it were your own. Doesn't change the point, though.

Someone said "All other classes are useless". I called them out on it. You said I was twisting your words.

That makes even less sense now, you know.

[Shampoohorn]

Immortal Strife wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

OP posts facts. Hard numbers. Proof.

General response is "no don't do it it's FINE".

.. Oh. Well, that sure is a compelling argument.

Could you really be swayed the other way? I have not once in all the nerf threads seen you acknowledge a counter argument as a legitament point. Based on your post history I think it's fair to say your opinion lays in concrete, so why then ask for any "proof".


*btw I agree the infiltrator could use a small nerf.

Is there a counter argument based on numbers or real facts?  If so, please link to it or articulate it.  :innocent:

[InfamousResult]

Immortal Strife wrote...

Could you really be swayed the other way? I have not once in all the nerf threads seen you acknowledge a counter argument as a legitament point. Based on your post history I think it's fair to say your opinion lays in concrete, so why then ask for any "proof".

*btw I agree the infiltrator could use a small nerf.

I could be swayed- I just haven't seen a point that would actually sway me. The truth is that I mostly reply to the people in these threads who give the silliest reasons for NOT balancing the game- or for complaining about complainers. The most common arguments, like "this is co-op, it doesn't matter" or "stop crying because you were outscored".

The kneejerk defense reactions.

[ToaOrka]

How about we fix the Geth's Hunter Mode and get rid of all the bugs that make the game unplayable before we worry about "fixing" the cloak, m'kay?

[cuzIMgood]

Agree 100% op. Nice post.

[Malditor]

Mevanna wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Nice try, I know for a fact I didn't say that. Twisting posts does nothing to support your side. I can play multiple other class/race set ups and do as well as I do with inf. Also, distracting enemies is done well by engineers or biotics too and anyone can revive others, I do it often regardless of class I'm playing.... So yeah nice try

Sorry, checked and realized it was actually someone else's statement, you were just defending it as though it were your own. Doesn't change the point, though.

Someone said "All other classes are useless". I called them out on it. You said I was twisting your words.

That makes even less sense now, you know.

I never said twisting my words, read again.

[Skyance]

This thread amuses me.

Signed,
An Infiltrator

[Mevanna]

Malditor wrote...

Mevanna wrote...

Malditor wrote...

Nice try, I know for a fact I didn't say that. Twisting posts does nothing to support your side. I can play multiple other class/race set ups and do as well as I do with inf. Also, distracting enemies is done well by engineers or biotics too and anyone can revive others, I do it often regardless of class I'm playing.... So yeah nice try

Sorry, checked and realized it was actually someone else's statement, you were just defending it as though it were your own. Doesn't change the point, though.

Someone said "All other classes are useless". I called them out on it. You said I was twisting your words.

That makes even less sense now, you know.

I never said twisting my words, read again.

Still, I provided proof that the words were said almost precisely as I quoted them, even if not by you. So stop yelling at me already.

[Dorje Sylas]

Kuato Livezz wrote...

BW has stats. Not just stats on forum users or good players. Stats for all the players and in all game levels.

There has been 15? MP balance changes. Nothing has nerfed the TC. What does that tell you? Its not being abused.

They may have the stats but we can't trust them with it. Bioware has 0 trust these days. I say make the numbers public so we can crunch them ourselves. They won't though because just like how we catch them on all kinds of glitches we'll likely very quickly find that they aren't running the back end numbers right either.

[Milkies]

/signed

[dumael]

Agreed. (copy pasting myself from another topic)

Adjust TC in three specific ways: reduce the total damage bonus by 10 / 15%, remove the cooldown exploit (always take the highest cooldown for things like sabotage) and remove the usage scaled cooldown.

Also:

Kronner wrote...

Sniper Rifles may get insane bonus, but they will never one shot a stupid Centurion anyway. All that damage is wasted.

Kishock. Cloaked geth heavy melee. Cloak->ed->(head/body)shot. I'm sure there are other techniques for dealing with shielded enemies.

At least Infiltrator requires you to aim well. If you miss, all the bonuses in the world are ****ing useless.

Krysae, Falcon, Reegar, Scorpion. Run up to their faces and drop a grenade or two.

Meanwhile, asari adept etc. can spam auto-aim powers that do AoE damage and/or stagger enemies or even enemy groups (Overload).

Ok, I have to aim for prox mine, arc grenade. Krysae not so much.

On top of all of that I can also play rez pony, objective capper. Also, Infiltrators can abuse the early cancellation feature of cloak to get 3~ second cooldowns.

Modifié par dumael, 13 juin 2012 - 06:33 .

[Princess Rolf]

/NOT signed

You maybe, just maybe, should consider the three possible perks one char has, insted of just fokusing on one and basing all your "findings" on that..

[Cyonan]

Dorje Sylas wrote...
They may have the stats but we can't trust them with it. Bioware has 0 trust these days. I say make the numbers public so we can crunch them ourselves. They won't though because just like how we catch them on all kinds of glitches we'll likely very quickly find that they aren't running the back end numbers right either.

They do put out numbers from time to time. Not all of them but some of them.

Soldiers are always the most played class. The average gamer just doesn't do the math to figure out that the Infiltrator can kill exactly 12.54% faster(Yay for made up numbers!) than anything else. They just play the class that they enjoyed playing in singleplayer the most, and maybe try out the other classes from time to time.