456 réponses à ce sujet

[robarcool]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

PETITION: Make the Infiltrator class useless.

[UKStory135]

I'm not a signer.
I agree with the numbers that the OP posted, but I still don't think that they show that the Sniper Rifles on an Infiltrator is OP. Even if he is brutally efficient, he would still have to hit every shot to kill as fast as a good biotic tag team. With the exception of the Krysae, every rifle takes a lot of skill and one miss punishes more than with any other gun. With shield-gates, shockwaves, and big fat Krogans getting in your way, there are plenty of obstacles getting in the way of snipers already. Also TC takes out your shield regen on what are already squishy characters.

Yes, sniper rifles dish out a bunch of damage, but they are supposed too.

[budzai]

frist they should remove the bugs (uncloaking, enemys still see you)... and by the way scores are very luckbased...

[CaptainAchilles]

Agree with OP ......Infiltrator needs to be nerfed. All the babies who cry for it not to be nerfed will have to actuallly start working on team skills....no more insta dropping aggro and ignoring the team and objectives (not that everyone does that, but too many do).

[robarcool]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

Chealec wrote...

Not read the responses (keeping an eye on pizza in oven) but your initial hypothesis fails to take into account the fact that Adrenaline rush, maxed out, can provide a damage buff for 6.8 seconds whereas Tactical Cloak is only ever 2 seconds - in theory AR should be stronger when used with sustained-fire weapons (assault rifles and smgs) whereas TC will be stronger with single-shot, high damage weapons (snipers and shotguns).

Thanks for a serious post. I miss them.

While Adrenaline Rush lasts longer, it also has longer cooldown, especially thanks to encumbrance. That results it being available for let's say 50% of the time, more if you pack less weight, thus weaker weapons, making your overall DPS not really going up.

Tactical Cloak however lasts for about 2 seconds, and in a perfect cloak-cycle is available every 3 seconds. That is 66% of the time, and 100% of the shots on most hard-hitting weapons.

I agree that Shield gating is a serious issue on Gold, but when it is adressed, the high damage multiplier of the Tactical Cloak will make them even stronger.

1. Shield gate is not an issue. It was put there in the first place to restrict the most powerful weapons
2. TC lasts for 2 seconds and AR lasts for 3 seconds. However, there is also the point that one shot breaks the cloak, one shot doesn't break AR. AR provides a free reload, TC doesn't. You could argue that it is depending on how good the player is if he can't even remember to reload, but  I am counting the facts to compare.

[Mevanna]

robarcool wrote...


1. Shield gate is not an issue. It was put there in the first place to restrict the most powerful weapons
2. TC lasts for 2 seconds and AR lasts for 3 seconds. However, there is also the point that one shot breaks the cloak, one shot doesn't break AR. AR provides a free reload, TC doesn't. You could argue that it is depending on how good the player is if he can't even remember to reload, but  I am counting the facts to compare.

1 - It only restricts half of the powerful weapons. Shotguns aren't affected. Plus, powerful weapons are powerful because they're heavy. That should be enough restriction in and of itself, but the Infiltrator just breaks that particular rule, so shieldgate was needed for compensation. In hindsight, it doesn't seem particularly well-thought-out.
2 - TC lasts for 2 seconds after it's broken.

[Cyonan]

robarcool wrote...
1. Shield gate is not an issue. It was put there in the first place to restrict the most powerful weapons
2. TC lasts for 2 seconds and AR lasts for 3 seconds. However, there is also the point that one shot breaks the cloak, one shot doesn't break AR. AR provides a free reload, TC doesn't. You could argue that it is depending on how good the player is if he can't even remember to reload, but  I am counting the facts to compare.

Adrenaline Rush lasts 4 seconds base, and 5.2 seconds if you have the third rank in it, which if you got 1 point of AR you most likely got 3.

[Chealec]

Cyonan wrote...

robarcool wrote...
1. Shield gate is not an issue. It was put there in the first place to restrict the most powerful weapons
2. TC lasts for 2 seconds and AR lasts for 3 seconds. However, there is also the point that one shot breaks the cloak, one shot doesn't break AR. AR provides a free reload, TC doesn't. You could argue that it is depending on how good the player is if he can't even remember to reload, but  I am counting the facts to compare.

Adrenaline Rush lasts 4 seconds base, and 5.2 seconds if you have the third rank in it, which if you got 1 point of AR you most likely got 3.

6.8 if you have rank 5

[NCRZombie]

Cool. Guess people aren't allowed to have fun anymore.

Fun is successfully nerfed.

Game is working as intended now.

Buff ALL the classes; let everyone else join in. If more of you people played the game as much as you spent complaining on the forums you might actually enjoy the game.

[LoboFH]

Snipers are always highly specialized elite units...it's logic they are more powerful than average soldier troops.

[Malditor]

Mevanna wrote...

robarcool wrote...


1. Shield gate is not an issue. It was put there in the first place to restrict the most powerful weapons
2. TC lasts for 2 seconds and AR lasts for 3 seconds. However, there is also the point that one shot breaks the cloak, one shot doesn't break AR. AR provides a free reload, TC doesn't. You could argue that it is depending on how good the player is if he can't even remember to reload, but  I am counting the facts to compare.

1 - It only restricts half of the powerful weapons. Shotguns aren't affected. Plus, powerful weapons are powerful because they're heavy. That should be enough restriction in and of itself, but the Infiltrator just breaks that particular rule, so shieldgate was needed for compensation. In hindsight, it doesn't seem particularly well-thought-out.
2 - TC lasts for 2 seconds after it's broken.

To be honest, the extra damage lasting after TC breaks is kinda screwy. I saw someone say it's to compensate for lag, but not sure anything is going to hit a target 2 seconds after you shoot. I understand some extra time for it to count after taking the shot though, for things like proximity mine. Perhaps someone with more knowledge would be able to explain why the damage bonus lasts that long after the cloak breaks.

[megawug]

I disagree with this. At least nerfing sniping damage. Infiltrator is about cloaking and sniping.

You guys want to ruin the shotgun builds, fine. But don't mess with the sniping.

[Mevanna]

Malditor wrote...
To be honest, the extra damage lasting after TC breaks is kinda screwy. I saw someone say it's to compensate for lag, but not sure anything is going to hit a target 2 seconds after you shoot. I understand some extra time for it to count after taking the shot though, for things like proximity mine. Perhaps someone with more knowledge would be able to explain why the damage bonus lasts that long after the cloak breaks.

I think the original intention was to give the Infiltrator a chance to use continuous-fire weapons as well, which he couldn't really do if the damage bonus only applied to the first shot.

[Malditor]

Mevanna wrote...

Malditor wrote...
To be honest, the extra damage lasting after TC breaks is kinda screwy. I saw someone say it's to compensate for lag, but not sure anything is going to hit a target 2 seconds after you shoot. I understand some extra time for it to count after taking the shot though, for things like proximity mine. Perhaps someone with more knowledge would be able to explain why the damage bonus lasts that long after the cloak breaks.

I think the original intention was to give the Infiltrator a chance to use continuous-fire weapons as well, which he couldn't really do if the damage bonus only applied to the first shot.

Ah, such as the triple shot snipers, which are mostly not good anyway... Makes sense

[CmnDwnWrkn]

CaptainAchilles wrote...

Agree with OP ......Infiltrator needs to be nerfed. All the babies who cry for it not to be nerfed will have to actuallly start working on team skills....no more insta dropping aggro and ignoring the team and objectives (not that everyone does that, but too many do).

They'll probably just stop playing when that happens.  Hiding and using their teammates as decoys is all they know.  It will be too much of an adjustment when they have to worry about enemies firing back at them.

[AdrianC25]

If TC is op and "unfair" then why do I usually beat infiltrators on gold score wise if i play a soldier, vanguard , adept or engineer? and oh why do all these people care? its a co op game why are you looking to damage team mates? I almost never play infiltrator anymore and I still see no reason to nerf them.. they seem perfectly fine to me.

yes infiltrators are a "Easier" class to start with but in the end they are all the same once you get used to everything.

[NCRZombie]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

CaptainAchilles wrote...

Agree with OP ......Infiltrator needs to be nerfed. All the babies who cry for it not to be nerfed will have to actuallly start working on team skills....no more insta dropping aggro and ignoring the team and objectives (not that everyone does that, but too many do).

They'll probably just stop playing when that happens.  Hiding and using their teammates as decoys is all they know.  It will be too much of an adjustment when they have to worry about enemies firing back at them.

As opposed to the babies who cry about the babies crying about things not needing to be nerfed crying about the people crying about things needing to be nerfed.

Honestly why can't we just enjoy the game?

There's someone on the other end of that console that paid for the game in order to enjoy it just like you did. If he wants to play one way who's to say he shouldn't be allowed to play that way? If it becomes such an issue start setting some ground rules, only play with friends, and don't use the classes that don't make the game fun for you.

[Snoopy1955]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

Decrease base Duration and increase Duration evolution gain to make infiltrators choose between survivability and damage.

Enjoy bleeding out because I had to choose between revives and devices, or not showing up at the bottom of the match standings becuse these things already don't award enough points.

The fact of the matter is that TC probably is too large of a damage buff, but there are less points to be awarded from saving a team that is worth its salt, than there are for headshotting enemies, and apparently these points are deeply meaningful to some people, to the point that they try to kick yousometimes when you don't score enough. Now, personally, I am apathetic towards the damage buff of TC, because when I am cloaked it is either because something snuck up behind me and this is my last ditch effort to not die (which tends not to save me as shields don't restore during TC, and enemies have taken to shooting you in the face even if you are cloaked lately) or I'm trying to get through a mob to keep someone from bleeding out. What I do care about is durration.

If you go too far when you adjust the risk/reward of being able to save a soldier who went down across the map, you might find that the results that you reap are less than satisfactory.

[Kenadian]

megawug wrote...

I disagree with this. At least nerfing sniping damage. Infiltrator is about cloaking and sniping.

You guys want to ruin the shotgun builds, fine. But don't mess with the sniping.

Allow me to say, screw that ****. Shotgun builds are the lifeblood of my Infiltrators. How about we just take away the spammability of it perhaps? You know, the only that is legitimately OP about Tac Cloak.

[Lord Rosario]

One major flaw that I don't know if it's been pointed out yet. While I agree that tactical cloak does far to many things and needs some weakening in the damage department, it's damage bonuses last for far shorter than any of the other characters. This leads to a 98% damage bonus for soldiers that lasts for a good 8 seconds as opposed to the tactical cloak which lasts far shorter. Because of the length of time that the character gets more damage for, they can deal much more damage than that infiltrator total.

Example: Infiltrator with Claymore can get 1 shot off with about 200% damage bonus. The soldier can get 3 or even 4 shots off with about 100% damage bonus. This means the soldier just doubled the Infiltrator's damage by using Adrenaline Rush. These numbers are obviously approximates.

Still, taking everything else that Tactical cloak does into account, it is still FAR better. But looking at numbers and damage multipliers doesn't tell you everything you need to know.

[Kittstalkur]

The only thing that's really broken about tactical cloak and sniper rifles is the Krysae. It compensates for the snipefiltrator weaknesses of enemies at close range, and groups of enemies. The main reason you see infiltrators topping the boards is because they're good shots and can Finger of God enemies from across the map. Considering most teams bunker down in one spot, the one person who's effective at long to extreme range is going to have the most time to hit a target. The ability to pick off one, maybe two enemies every three seconds is not terribly overpowered, again, it's really only the Krysae that's the problem. Sadly, fixing it would necessitate making it a useless weapon or removing it entirely.

[Lord Rosario]

Kenadian wrote...

megawug wrote...

I disagree with this. At least nerfing sniping damage. Infiltrator is about cloaking and sniping.

You guys want to ruin the shotgun builds, fine. But don't mess with the sniping.

Allow me to say, screw that ****. Shotgun builds are the lifeblood of my Infiltrators. How about we just take away the spammability of it perhaps? You know, the only that is legitimately OP about Tac Cloak.

Both wrong. Infiltrators are supposed to be support, not glass cannons.

[RGFrog]

Countdown to Infiltrators becoming useless... give it 2 weeks.

Kittstalkur wrote...
The only thing that's really broken about tactical cloak and sniper rifles is the Krysae. It compensates for the snipefiltrator weaknesses of enemies at close range, and groups of enemies. The main reason you see infiltrators topping the boards is because they're good shots and can Finger of God enemies from across the map. Considering most teams bunker down in one spot, the one person who's effective at long to extreme range is going to have the most time to hit a target. The ability to pick off one, maybe two enemies every three seconds is not terribly overpowered, again, it's really only the Krysae that's the problem. Sadly, fixing it would necessitate making it a useless weapon or removing it entirely.

 

and this ^^ a realistic look at the infiltrator.

Lord Rosario wrote...

Both wrong. Infiltrators are supposed to be support, not glass cannons. 

 

But how are they supposed to be support? What about their weapons or powers are support related? My SI has nothing support related so if he's not a glass cannon (which is why he can/should use a Widow/Jav in the first place) then he's just an extremely weak solidier. Even at max fitness the inf is still a paper tiger.

Take away his only fangs and he's just another defanged, declawed house cat waiting to be stomped on.

Modifié par RGFrog, 13 juin 2012 - 09:01 .

[Grunt_Platform]

I'd be in favor of rebalancing Tactical Cloak and sniper rifles such that still do roughly the same damage for Infiltrators as they currently do (except for the Krysae), but also buffing the damage sniper rifles do without the rank 6 bonus.

In other words: Nerf the Tactical Cloak Sniper Rifle bonus in some way, and then buff every sniper rifle that isn't the Krysae. Net result: Overall value of Sniper Rifles increased, Krysae remains good on non-Infiltrators and stops being overpowered with the rank 6 bonus.

Modifié par EvanKester, 13 juin 2012 - 09:04 .

[G Kevin]

For once, a nerf I can agree on for now.

I would think a simple fix would be to increase the cooldown for TC along with it being affected by encumbrance. Thus making it a power reserved for stronger enemies or a "get out of jail" card.

Modifié par G Kevin, 13 juin 2012 - 09:10 .