456 réponses à ce sujet

[BlackoutOmega]

death_for_sale wrote...

I support this petition.

Your picture makes me die a bit inside.

[Poison_Berrie]

OP: I agree that there need to be some balance changes to TC, but I don't completely agree with those numbers.
I'd say keep initial to 50% and the rank 4 evolution to 20%, together with a lowering of base duration and higher rank 4 duration increase will make that choice a bit more interesting without crippeling the damage output. 

That said I'd rather see that Encumberance would really effect cooldown more when breaking cloak early and powers not standardly being usable while cloaked. Thus forcing them to not spend all their time cloaked. 

Gust4v wrote...

% doesn't mean much if you are ignoring the skills of each class. Also, infiltrators can't spam powers like the other caster classes.

They can use them every cloak cycle for 90% extra damage no matter how heavy the weapon.

[UKStory135]

EvanKester wrote...

I'd be in favor of rebalancing Tactical Cloak and sniper rifles such that still do roughly the same damage for Infiltrators as they currently do (except for the Krysae), but also buffing the damage sniper rifles do without the rank 6 bonus.

In other words: Nerf the Tactical Cloak Sniper Rifle bonus in some way, and then buff every sniper rifle that isn't the Krysae. Net result: Overall value of Sniper Rifles increased, Krysae remains good on non-Infiltrators and stops being overpowered with the rank 6 bonus.

I'd be fine with that, too.  The SR is not overpowered, and if it weren't for the krysae, the buttthurt would be focused somewhere else.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Infiltrator is a combat/tech combo class, right? The solution is simple...

Figure out what the highest amount of damage is that a Soldier can do with a weapon + Adrenaline Rush. Multiply this by 2/3. You now have the highest amount of damage that an Infiltrator should be capable of inflicting using tactical cloak.

[Beasty-Krogan]

yeh im not signing anything as its pointless and stupid . But not to worry in the end all of those wanting balance and nerfs are only going to kill the mp aspect of the game and we all also kno u are all the ones who gets their way with bw and ea As im one of the majority and what we say means scrape all . Thats just imo anyways

[Lord Rosario]

RGFrog wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Both wrong. Infiltrators are supposed to be support, not glass cannons. 

 

But how are they supposed to be support? What about their weapons or powers are support related? My SI has nothing support related so if he's not a glass cannon (which is why he can/should use a Widow/Jav in the first place) then he's just an extremely weak solidier. Even at max fitness the inf is still a paper tiger.

Take away his only fangs and he's just another defanged, declawed house cat waiting to be stomped on.

Tactical cloak... it makes you hidden and less of a target to enemies. That is made to go help up your partners, go do objectives, and the bonus damage is so you can help knock down a few enemies every once in a while. Tactical cloak was also to give you time to line up a shot without getting hit all the time. All those damage bonuses weren't thought out well. They were to make snipers more damaging, but also slower because you'd have to take the time to cloak, line up the head shot, and fire. People have taken it far beyond it's intended use.

[gaminazn]

I am sure someone has already pointed this out to you in the last 8 pages, but you are wrong about TC Sniper damage being a force multiplier. If that were true, than a BW 1 would be able to body shot a Cannibal without equipment. This is not the case. In order to do so, you need to use both an ammo power and a rail amp.

If you don't believe me, go try it. Anything less than a BW 6 or 7 will not OHKO body shot a Cannibal without the armor buff. Without the new equipment.

[nasteerus]

the soldier should have more damage because that guy has to be visible and take the damage to make the shots. Infiltrator has the ability to line a shot without getting shot at. the balance needs to be there. nerfing sucks improve never take away.

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

I'm confused ... shouldn't a sniper firing from a hidden location (TC) do more damage?
I mean that's pretty much how it's been for most games no?
Attacking someone when they don't expect it (ie from shadows, from behind, from an active cloak)
almost always does more damage per hit than the warrior/soldier that attacks head on

Also, shouldn't a Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle do significantly more spike damage than the M-4 carbine a regular soldier might carry?
And then when that Barrett sniper rifle is fired with the target not expecting it ... shouldn't it then cause even more damage?

TC damage is fine ... its the "use a power AND fire for 1.5 seconds after AND with the benefit of the damage bonus" that is causing the problem.

An infiltrator firing a sniper rifle (or any gun actually) from hiding SHOULD do massive spike damage.

The problem I have, and I think a few others have mentioned, is ...
Nerfing TC ... or nerfing/buffing anything ...
should all take a back burner and sit on the bottom of the list ...
FIX ALL TEH BROKEN THINGS FIRST!

[GM Jaken]

Has anyone mentioned that Tactical Cloak only gives you all that bonus for like.. one shot?

Also, having playing each class extensively, the Tactical Cloak damage output is the only thing keeping the Infiltrator a decent class. The rest of the powers have little tactical or combo power. Other than the Sentinel, this is my least played class "for fun," however it is my primary class for Gold, since my group runs 2 snipers + 2 control, and I can snipe slightly better than the other two.

Take away the damage output (via nerf) kills the class.

You can math all you want, you're still dead wrong.

[Kalas Magnus]

Last I checked the salarian was on par with the asari adept in terms on effectiveness before the krysae. If the problem was cloak I would see a lot more infiltrators inevery game like the human, quarian (m/f), or salarian. The geth is the real problem with hunter mode he manages to squeeze more shots into the cloak and breaking it.  and who uses sniper rifles anyway shield gate makes them useless. It is all about the claymore GI.

[GM Jaken]

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

And then when that Barrett sniper rifle is fired with the target not expecting it ... shouldn't it then cause even more damage?

Um, realistically, no. A bullet is a bullet is a bullet.  Whether you see it coming or not, you're still (more than likely) dead.

I know, realism - who needs it, but you did bring real weapons to the table.

I also don't disagree with you. I just thought I'd troll a bit.

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

Lord Rosario wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Both wrong. Infiltrators are supposed to be support, not glass cannons. 

 

But how are they supposed to be support? What about their weapons or powers are support related? My SI has nothing support related so if he's not a glass cannon (which is why he can/should use a Widow/Jav in the first place) then he's just an extremely weak solidier. Even at max fitness the inf is still a paper tiger.

Take away his only fangs and he's just another defanged, declawed house cat waiting to be stomped on.

Tactical cloak... it makes you hidden and less of a target to enemies. That is made to go help up your partners, go do objectives, and the bonus damage is so you can help knock down a few enemies every once in a while. Tactical cloak was also to give you time to line up a shot without getting hit all the time. All those damage bonuses weren't thought out well. They were to make snipers more damaging, but also slower because you'd have to take the time to cloak, line up the head shot, and fire. People have taken it far beyond it's intended use.

You didn't create the game nor the tactical cloak power ... where do you find BW stating the "intended use" of tactical cloak?

Please do not presume to speak for the developer ... I highly doubt that Bioware unintentionally put in the damage bonuses to tactical cloak.

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

GM Jaken wrote...

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

And then when that Barrett sniper rifle is fired with the target not expecting it ... shouldn't it then cause even more damage?

Um, realistically, no. A bullet is a bullet is a bullet.  Whether you see it coming or not, you're still (more than likely) dead.

I know, realism - who needs it, but you did bring real weapons to the table.

I also don't disagree with you. I just thought I'd troll a bit.

>_<
I've never been shot by a bullet when I wasn't looking 
nor have I been shot by a bullet when I was
So I can't say either way ... but I have been punched both ways ... and its always worse when you don't expect that!

lol

[Lariscus Obscurus]

I like my Tactical Cloak as it is.
There is no need to change anything.

[Mevanna]

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

I'm confused ... shouldn't a sniper firing from a hidden location (TC) do more damage?
I mean that's pretty much how it's been for most games no?
Attacking someone when they don't expect it (ie from shadows, from behind, from an active cloak)
almost always does more damage per hit than the warrior/soldier that attacks head on

Well, this is basically meant to simulate the fact that when attacking from stealth, you are at liberty to aim for lethal spots with all the time in the world. But a base damage bonus on top of the fact that you get more 'criticals' (head shots) seems off. I'd rather see that bonus nerfed and the headshots restored on bosses to make an Infiltrator more of a tactical class, rather than just cloak-spamming.

[nasteerus]

the exploits of the TC needs to be fixed, not the damage one for sure is the two shot hunter mode while cloaked

[CmnDwnWrkn]

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

I'm confused ... shouldn't a sniper firing from a hidden location (TC) do more damage?
I mean that's pretty much how it's been for most games no?
Attacking someone when they don't expect it (ie from shadows, from behind, from an active cloak)
almost always does more damage per hit than the warrior/soldier that attacks head on

Also, shouldn't a Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle do significantly more spike damage than the M-4 carbine a regular soldier might carry?
And then when that Barrett sniper rifle is fired with the target not expecting it ... shouldn't it then cause even more damage?

TC damage is fine ... its the "use a power AND fire for 1.5 seconds after AND with the benefit of the damage bonus" that is causing the problem.

An infiltrator firing a sniper rifle (or any gun actually) from hiding SHOULD do massive spike damage.

The problem I have, and I think a few others have mentioned, is ...
Nerfing TC ... or nerfing/buffing anything ...
should all take a back burner and sit on the bottom of the list ...
FIX ALL TEH BROKEN THINGS FIRST!

And all that would be okay, but ME3 snipers don't have to deal with all of the factors that snipers do in real life.  They get the benefits, but don't have to deal with any of the downsides.  For example, you cannot simply run around with a Barrett .50 and fire while standing up.  It's way too heavy, and there's way too much recoil.

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

GM Jaken wrote...

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

And
then when that Barrett sniper rifle is fired with the target not
expecting it ... shouldn't it then cause even more damage?

Um,
realistically, no. A bullet is a bullet is a bullet.  Whether you see
it coming or not, you're still (more than likely) dead.

I know, realism - who needs it, but you did bring real weapons to the table.

I also don't disagree with you. I just thought I'd troll a bit.

>_<
I've never been shot by a bullet when I wasn't looking 
nor have I been shot by a bullet when I was
So I can't say either way ... but I have been punched both ways ... and its always worse when you don't expect that!

lol

If you get shot with a a sniper bullet between the eyes, I don't think it will matter much whether you were expecting it or not.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 13 juin 2012 - 09:30 .

[Lord Rosario]

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Both wrong. Infiltrators are supposed to be support, not glass cannons. 

 

But how are they supposed to be support? What about their weapons or powers are support related? My SI has nothing support related so if he's not a glass cannon (which is why he can/should use a Widow/Jav in the first place) then he's just an extremely weak solidier. Even at max fitness the inf is still a paper tiger.

Take away his only fangs and he's just another defanged, declawed house cat waiting to be stomped on.

Tactical cloak... it makes you hidden and less of a target to enemies. That is made to go help up your partners, go do objectives, and the bonus damage is so you can help knock down a few enemies every once in a while. Tactical cloak was also to give you time to line up a shot without getting hit all the time. All those damage bonuses weren't thought out well. They were to make snipers more damaging, but also slower because you'd have to take the time to cloak, line up the head shot, and fire. People have taken it far beyond it's intended use.

You didn't create the game nor the tactical cloak power ... where do you find BW stating the "intended use" of tactical cloak?

Please do not presume to speak for the developer ... I highly doubt that Bioware unintentionally put in the damage bonuses to tactical cloak.

Ok.. they totally meant to have the Geth Infiltrator do 400% damage with the javelin and another 300% damage with their nuke melee. I'm sure they wanted the infiltratro to do everything better than any other class. if that is the case then they are just stupid. I am sorry if I take the side that Bioware knows what they are doing and didn't purposely make a class that would outperform every other class in their inteded areas besides biotics.

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

Mevanna wrote...

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

I'm confused ... shouldn't a sniper firing from a hidden location (TC) do more damage?
I mean that's pretty much how it's been for most games no?
Attacking someone when they don't expect it (ie from shadows, from behind, from an active cloak)
almost always does more damage per hit than the warrior/soldier that attacks head on

Well, this is basically meant to simulate the fact that when attacking from stealth, you are at liberty to aim for lethal spots with all the time in the world. But a base damage bonus on top of the fact that you get more 'criticals' (head shots) seems off. I'd rather see that bonus nerfed and the headshots restored on bosses to make an Infiltrator more of a tactical class, rather than just cloak-spamming.

I agree that the bosses definitely need some kind of weak spot that would benefit skillful play.

However, nerfing infiltrators and then adding headshots back to bosses does not seem right ... everyone gets to benefit from shooting bosses in the head.  Hell I get a lot more head shots when I'm not playing a sniping infiltrator.

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

Lord Rosario wrote...

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

 

Tactical cloak...  People have taken it far beyond it's intended use.

You didn't create the game nor the tactical cloak power ... where do you find BW stating the "intended use" of tactical cloak?

Please do not presume to speak for the developer ... I highly doubt that Bioware unintentionally put in the damage bonuses to tactical cloak.

Ok.. they totally meant to have the Geth Infiltrator do 400% damage with the javelin and another 300% damage with their nuke melee. I'm sure they wanted the infiltratro to do everything better than any other class. if that is the case then they are just stupid. I am sorry if I take the side that Bioware knows what they are doing and didn't purposely make a class that would outperform every other class in their inteded areas besides biotics.

Oh ... so they're not stupid enough to make a class/build that can do massive spike damage ... 
yet they ARE stupid enough to accidently do it?  Because, obviously they did do it ... the infiltrators with TC bonus is in the game ...

so which is it?  
So stupid they made it
or
So stupid they accidentally made it

Modifié par xxHiDa SuFixx, 13 juin 2012 - 09:35 .

[Batgang alumni]

Leave my GI alone!!!

[Poison_Berrie]

gaminazn wrote...

I am sure someone has already pointed this out to you in the last 8 pages, but you are wrong about TC Sniper damage being a force multiplier. If that were true, than a BW 1 would be able to body shot a Cannibal without equipment. This is not the case. In order to do so, you need to use both an ammo power and a rail amp.

It seems that it's widely accepted to indeed be multiplative rather than additive damage.

Mind you on a BW 1 and Salarian Infiltrator without equipment that's about 1500 damage, which is about 500 short of 1 shotting a Cannibal at 2025 health.

GM Jaken wrote...

Has anyone mentioned that Tactical Cloak only gives you all that bonus for like.. one shot?

 
No. You have to seconds after cloak disables. 
Which helps multishot snipers compared to single shots, like the Raptor and Indra and even the Valiant and BW.

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...
And all that would be okay, but ME3 snipers don't have to deal with all of the factors that snipers do in real life.  They get the benefits, but don't have to deal with any of the downsides.  For example, you cannot simply run around with a Barrett .50 and fire while standing up.  It's way too heavy, and there's way too much recoil.

No class has to deal with all the factors any of them would in real life.

But to answer what you're trying to say ... if that is the case then when I go into Tactical Cloak I should remain hidden until the enemy can some how find me.  I mean that's how real snipers can hold down a position against a vastly larger force right?

ok ok lets get away from real vs game

In all the other games I can remember ... attacking from hiding does more damage.
Infiltrators attacking from cloak are attacking from hiding.
Thus infiltrators SHOULD do more damage than the guy who stands in front of the enemy in plain sight.

[Snoopy1955]

G Kevin wrote...

For once, a nerf I can agree on for now.

I would think a simple fix would be to increase the cooldown for TC along with it being affected by encumbrance. Thus making it a power reserved for stronger enemies or a "get out of jail" card.

Again, have fun bleeding out when I can't bring up my tactical cloak to save you.

Your issues aren't really with how long TC lasts, or how often I can use it. Your issues are with how much damage it can potentially deal out.

It seems to me that everyone is happy with TC when it is reviving people, or when it is deactivating devices, it is just when it is being used for super-murder that the issues arise. Dropping the damage buff would keep the infiltrators from beating your score, which makes you happy, and it lets me continue to revive and do devices, which makes both you and I happy. Now, if the damage bonus does get nerfed, I'd need an inscentive to ever use it for that. Currently, my shields don't restore when I'm cloaked, which means if I use it for damage I am in for massive amounts of close ranged rape for just the average long range damage. Why would I ever do that?