456 réponses à ce sujet

[Immortal Strife]

I'm glad Bioware does the balance changes and not the forum goers or I would have stoped playing a long time ago because everything would be broken by now.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 13 juin 2012 - 09:45 .

[Dynamik78]

I would just make the cooldown always the same and not dependant on the time you stay cloaked...let's say 8 seconds without touching the damage buff of TC
That I bet would do the trick much more than try to balance difficult game mechanics: I mean the infiltrator HAS to hit hard but it's no sporty that he has a ridiculous cooldown to this enormous damage bonus
Sorry if I made mistakes but english is not my native language and I am a bit drunk lol

[Lord Rosario]

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...


Oh ... so they're not stupid enough to make a class/build that can do massive spike damage ... 
yet they ARE stupid enough to accidently do it?  Because, obviously they did do it ... the infiltrators with TC bonus is in the game ...

so which is it?  
So stupid they made it
or
So stupid they accidentally made it

They failed to see that so many different weapons, abilities, stats, and things would all be stuck together to make something that shouldn't exist. It happens in every game. Every... Single... Game... There is no game that the developers saw through every loophole before releasing it, especially releasing extra content. That is not stupidity, but purposely making it to be overpowered would be.

[avenged100fold]

Literally copy pasta from the board I last put this in but was utterly ignored, please give opinions.

I actually think the problem is more because the infiltrator is the one multiplayer class done right. The class is all about two things: sneaking around completing objectives, and rewarding accuracy with sniper rifles with huge damage (the Kyrsae being a slight exception as accuracy is unnecessary). This is how all of the classes out to be. Focuse on two main attributes, and create a character around them. Instead, we have two skill trees that are virtually identical for every character. What is the point of having melee boosting skils on a infiltrators? Why not only give those to specific classes topped to melee damage, and make the bonuses larger? What I'm proposing is this: Each class should focus on two attributes (like power damage, sidearm damage, assault rifle damage, survivability, melee damage) that VASTLY improve performance of the class in those two areas. This would either be two separate trees, or just one that makes you prioritize. Then, the racial trees should be changed to reflect that race's specific skills (similar to attributes, but more specific. Things like maneuverability, awareness, recoil reductions, ammo capacity, health regen, faster cool downs, longer duration - many of which we already have, and many of which are already in this tree, but should be emphasized more severely. Things like headshot bonuses ought not be so universal, but be higher where they exist ). I feel like Bioware went too much with their new "any class, any weapon" deal and tried to make every class a jack of all trades but a king of none. The lone exception being the infiltrator.

I would like to submit an idea to you. Off the top of my head, let's do human vanguard. Let's say his attributes are power area of effect increases and shotgun damage. Racial skills are faster cool downs and maneuverability. Powers are Biotic charge, shockwave, and Nova still, and their stats remain the same. Racial tree would be something like
1: reduce cool downs 15%
2: increase movement speed 10%
3: increase initial encumbrance 20% ( all rank threes would do this maybe?)
4: evolution 1:reduce cool down by 25% |evolution 2: increase movement speed 20%
5: evolution 1: 40% chance of not having a cool down |evolution 2: 40% chance of avoiding stagger
6: evolution 1: reduce cool downs 40%, 15% chance of no cool down (stacks with 5:1 of course) |evolution 2: movement speed up 30%, 100% faster melee.

The last tree would be the attribute tree.
1: increase area of effect 40%. If no area of effect exists, create area of effect of 3 meters.
2: increase traditional (not long range, excludes gps, gst, crusader) shotgun damage 10%
3: increase power force by 30%, greater chances to stagger and greater stagger effects from powers/shotgun
4: evolution 1: increase area of effect 50% |evolution 2: increase traditional shotgun damage 20%
5: evolution 1: 35% chance all small enemies (non-bosses) in range will be knocked down by biotic abilities. |evolution 2: increase shotgun damage 100% to enemies within 5 meters
6: evolution 1: increase area of effect 75%, force penetrates armor to knockdown/stagger |evolution 2: increase traditional shotgun damage 30%, shots where all pellets hit garunteed stagger, shots within 2 meters knockdown all but toughest opponents (bosses).

What do you guys think? Is this specializing, or is it pigeonholing? Bonuses may seem extreme but keep in mind this would be the go to class for people who like shotguns and disrupting the enemy. Other classes would have extreme bonuses, and powers that fit a specific style of play. I did human vanguard because they are normally considered suicide on gold, but this way they can clean house with small mobs be (pulling a geth) and leaving the enemy in perpetual stagger/knockdown. I can do a human soldier maybe if you guys care to see how I would change a different useless gold class to be just as good for a specific (but different) play style than charge and knockdown. Please, I would like some feedback on this. Should I create my own board? Am I derailing the topic? Or saying infiltrators are a decent guide to how classes should be?

[wargamesrawsum]

Dont nerf the clase it can only carry 1 heavy sniper and a WEAK smg it has less heath and sheilds you would understand if u ever used the infiltrate also infiltrater isnt any good with out a good team that covers his or her back so quit whinning about it and dont nerf i poll -1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-11-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-100000000000

[Snoopy1955]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Both wrong. Infiltrators are supposed to be support, not glass cannons.

Your point is only valid when as many points can be achieved in a support role as they can in a cannon role. Until this becomes true I must assume that bioware actually means for everyone to play damage dealer roles, after all, that is certainly how it seems when you are always at the bottom of the match rsnking because so much of your time is spent locked up with devices, which give roughly one killworth of points each, and revives, which give you points if you do 5, 10, and 15, and thats it. Assuming that points matter to me, if the damage buff goes awaycompletely, why would I ever play infiltrator?

[Gruntburner]

Interesting note, if you fire the Black widow fast enough, the first two shots get the damage bonus. Basically you can annihilate tougher enemies, even on gold.

[rollblows]

nope


just play the ****ing game and have fun its not like this is pvp STFU

[Poison_Berrie]

Gruntburner wrote...

Interesting note, if you fire the Black widow fast enough, the first two shots get the damage bonus. Basically you can annihilate tougher enemies, even on gold.

All three if you specced for it in Hunter mode.

[Lord Rosario]

Snoopy1955 wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Both wrong. Infiltrators are supposed to be support, not glass cannons.

Your point is only valid when as many points can be achieved in a support role as they can in a cannon role. Until this becomes true I must assume that bioware actually means for everyone to play damage dealer roles, after all, that is certainly how it seems when you are always at the bottom of the match rsnking because so much of your time is spent locked up with devices, which give roughly one killworth of points each, and revives, which give you points if you do 5, 10, and 15, and thats it. Assuming that points matter to me, if the damage buff goes awaycompletely, why would I ever play infiltrator?

Points... matter? Since when? Everyone gets the same credits and the same experience at the end of every match. All the score means is that you were shooting more people. I much preffer to help my team out of impossible situations, you know, so you can finish the match. Score means squat if you get downed and no one wants to help you because all you care about is your score.

[Lord Rosario]

N7 Rixus wrote...

Oh cmon GI already got a HM 7.5% damage loss now you want to balance the TC make GI even less effective.

7.5% damage lost. Only about 300% more to go to make it balanced.

Edit: Obvous overstatement.

Modifié par Lord Rosario, 13 juin 2012 - 09:59 .

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

Lord Rosario wrote...

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...


Oh ... so they're not stupid enough to make a class/build that can do massive spike damage ... 
yet they ARE stupid enough to accidently do it?  Because, obviously they did do it ... the infiltrators with TC bonus is in the game ...

so which is it?  
So stupid they made it
or
So stupid they accidentally made it

They failed to see that so many different weapons, abilities, stats, and things would all be stuck together to make something that shouldn't exist. It happens in every game. Every... Single... Game... There is no game that the developers saw through every loophole before releasing it, especially releasing extra content. That is not stupidity, but purposely making it to be overpowered would be.

I see ... they failed to see all the TC abuse since release ... so they decided to release an explosive 3 round sniper bazooka to help ... along with gear that can increase sniper rifle damage an additional 15% on top of all that abuse that was already around.

I think its more likely that a minority of players are feeling like they need to change things for the majority.

I play pretty frequently and 90% of the time its on PUG R/R/G ... I hardly see infiltrator abuse and we almost always make the money in the 10th round.

[BoomDynamite]

Other classes need buffs, not Infiltrator nerfs.

[Mevanna]

Snoopy1955 wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Both wrong. Infiltrators are supposed to be support, not glass cannons.

Your point is only valid when as many points can be achieved in a support role as they can in a cannon role. Until this becomes true I must assume that bioware actually means for everyone to play damage dealer roles, after all, that is certainly how it seems when you are always at the bottom of the match rsnking because so much of your time is spent locked up with devices, which give roughly one killworth of points each, and revives, which give you points if you do 5, 10, and 15, and thats it. Assuming that points matter to me, if the damage buff goes awaycompletely, why would I ever play infiltrator?

Nobody said it should disappear completely, but considering how many other things Infiltrators have going for them (invisibility, ignoring weapon weight, etc) the huge damage bonus on top of all that seems unfair.

[Firmijn]

signed.

[Snoopy1955]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Snoopy1955 wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Both wrong. Infiltrators are supposed to be support, not glass cannons.

Your point is only valid when as many points can be achieved in a support role as they can in a cannon role. Until this becomes true I must assume that bioware actually means for everyone to play damage dealer roles, after all, that is certainly how it seems when you are always at the bottom of the match rsnking because so much of your time is spent locked up with devices, which give roughly one killworth of points each, and revives, which give you points if you do 5, 10, and 15, and thats it. Assuming that points matter to me, if the damage buff goes awaycompletely, why would I ever play infiltrator?

Points... matter? Since when? Everyone gets the same credits and the same experience at the end of every match. All the score means is that you were shooting more people. I much preffer to help my team out of impossible situations, you know, so you can finish the match. Score means squat if you get downed and no one wants to help you because all you care about is your score.

Except for when people decide that I'm awful because my score isn't high enough so I can't possibly be helpful.

I would be willing to accept the damage bonus going down if it meant I could regenerate my shields while cloaked, and could still use it to revive people.

[Lord Rosario]

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...


Oh ... so they're not stupid enough to make a class/build that can do massive spike damage ... 
yet they ARE stupid enough to accidently do it?  Because, obviously they did do it ... the infiltrators with TC bonus is in the game ...

so which is it?  
So stupid they made it
or
So stupid they accidentally made it

They failed to see that so many different weapons, abilities, stats, and things would all be stuck together to make something that shouldn't exist. It happens in every game. Every... Single... Game... There is no game that the developers saw through every loophole before releasing it, especially releasing extra content. That is not stupidity, but purposely making it to be overpowered would be.

I see ... they failed to see all the TC abuse since release ... so they decided to release an explosive 3 round sniper bazooka to help ... along with gear that can increase sniper rifle damage an additional 15% on top of all that abuse that was already around.

I think its more likely that a minority of players are feeling like they need to change things for the majority.

I play pretty frequently and 90% of the time its on PUG R/R/G ... I hardly see infiltrator abuse and we almost always make the money in the 10th round.

Your agruement hinges on that infiltrators are the only ones that use snipers which is just not true. Im not one to call for nerfs, but uh, a class that can hide, do more damage with weapons AND tech than any other class, and still has two other abilities to throw out with that is just plain too much.

I don't want infiltrators nerfed into nothing, but they do need some toning down. That, or others need some strengthening.

[Poison_Berrie]

BoomDynamite wrote...

Other classes need buffs, not Infiltrator nerfs.

That's a whole lot of buffs for most of the classes, though.

[Jonathan Shepard]

modok8 wrote...

What on earth do you need to sneak for? I see people proposing this idea as some sort of trade off for less damage modifiers. The faster you can kill stuff the better, sneaking around for 10 seconds is almost useless.

Apparently someone Rambos through waves 3, 6, and 10, without notice to something very important called objectives, which actually earn you credits.

OP, you've done well, and I agree wholeheartedly. If such a nerf is implemented, and it should be!-- then Hunter Mode should be restored to its well-designed incarnation.

[Kalas Magnus]

Gruntburner wrote...

Interesting note, if you fire the Black widow fast enough, the first two shots get the damage bonus. Basically you can annihilate tougher enemies, even on gold.

It is an automatic. Hold the trigger and you can fire ALL THREE shots with the cloak bonus.

[Death8the8Kid8]

1. This is a TEAM GAME. I don't think having a squadmate killing all the big mean people is such a bad thing.
2. Sniper classes are *usually* supposed to have big damage bonuses so they can do what they were intended to do, sniping.
3. TC is already wonky enough as it is! Do you not see that when Infiltrators cloak, they still get shot at by the enemy?
4. And I'm sure that not ALL Infiltrators go for the uber powerful sniper rifle of doom type build. (I am one of them, though I do have a GI made to murder everything in it's path)
5. There's things that we can do to other classes that can help them play the role they were supposed to play.
And by the way, I refuse to sign this petition! >

[xxHiDa SuFixx]

 According to this telemetry info from March

gallery.thatvideogameblog.com/albums/mass-effect-3/set-13/mp-telemetry-datanew.jpg


only 16% of players played infiltrator
and only 1% of all successful matches were on Gold

Hardly seems like the majority of players were abusing infiltrators and "making gold into bronze"

According to this telemetry info from May

1.bp.blogspot.com/-qrMgKbTaLpU/T6tXZrRD2II/AAAAAAAAAkU/dTwC0Yzl5R0/s640/ME3MP_Telemetry_201205.jpg

Infiltrators have moved up to 19.2% but are still behind soldiers
and the gold success rate has skyrocketed to 3.5%


The stats do not show a tactical cloak geth infiltrator abusing infested gaming community.

Modifié par xxHiDa SuFixx, 13 juin 2012 - 10:16 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

xxHiDa SuFixx wrote...

 According to this telemetry info from March

gallery.thatvideogameblog.com/albums/mass-effect-3/set-13/mp-telemetry-datanew.jpg


only 16% of players played infiltrator
and only 1% of all successful matches were on Gold

Hardly seems like the majority of players were abusing infiltrators and "making gold into bronze"

According to this telemetry info from May

1.bp.blogspot.com/-qrMgKbTaLpU/T6tXZrRD2II/AAAAAAAAAkU/dTwC0Yzl5R0/s640/ME3MP_Telemetry_201205.jpg

Infiltrators have moved up to 19.2% but are still behind soldiers
and the gold success rate has skyrocketed to 3.5%


The stats do not show a tactical cloak geth infiltrator abusing infested gaming community.

The Krysae was only introduced at the end of May, so that won't be reflected in the data yet.

[AlienAtSystem]

Death8the8Kid8 wrote...
3. TC is already wonky enough as it is! Do you not see that when Infiltrators cloak, they still get shot at by the enemy?

And another person, who thanks to the 3-second cloak cycle never noticed how cloak actually works. Enemies continue shooting at your last known position and can actually only see through cloak when you come close. When you always sit on the same spot in cover, of course they open fire on you.
It would be perfect for fast position changes if that function wasn't overshadowed by the constant large damage buff when used only to be broken immediately again.