173 réponses à ce sujet

[InfamousResult]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Vorcha get instant regeneration, Krogan get invulnerability. Why don't other classes get that? Everyone likes heatlh.

You realize you're only enforcing the sarcasm in the point I was making, right?

I mean, thanks, but I just figured I'd warn you that you're actually helping prove my point that what he said was silly.. And, in turn, the same thing you've been actively defending in this whole thread.

[Feauce]

Curzyfish wrote...

"One time" since firing off a power, and emptying 3 rounds from a sniper (yes you can do this with the krysae as well) is "one time." Not to mention "one time" every 3 seconds.  I'm not saying it needs to get thrown to the floor, stomped on, then dragged through a grimey alley or two, but it currently is the most powerful ability in the game.

Becoming visible right away is also your choice, and as for cloak bugging out, that's pretty rare unless you are using charge up weapons, where it can become uncommon rather than rare.

"One-time" meaning you get the bonus, then you lose it and have to use the ability again, as opposed to fire-and-forget powers like Blade Armor and Hunter Mode that give you constant bonuses. The Cloak bugging out isn't rare; apparently if you're the only person left in a wave, there's a pretty good chance that the invisibility portion won't work at all. I've noticed the salarian's Decoy not working properly at random times as well.

This is all also ignoring the fact that with Fitness and the aforementioned Blade Armor, a batarian Sentinel can achieve a 135% damage bonus on melee attacks (210% after a heavy melee kill), along with a Submission Net that can stop enemies from attacking and hold them for his long heavy melee wind-up, as well as return 75-150% of melee damage dealt to him... How exactly is Tactical Cloak broken again?

[CmnDwnWrkn]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

ParadoxFaet wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

All I'm saying is the damage buffs are the only real advantage Infiltrators have. Nerfing them to eternity would ruin the game for a lot of people. Sniper rifles have always been the Infiltrators signature gun, it makes sense that they do more damage with them. I think that the Soldier needs a buff to be comparable with the Infiltrator. They are weapon specialists after all. I wouldn't stop playing this game because I'm not skilled enough to play it, I'd stop playing out of principle. Hurting a classes signature power is hurting the class overall. Hurting the class overall is hurting the overall play style. Hurting the overall play style hampers the fun had while implementing the play style. Does that make sense?

No, it doesn't make sense, because everything you're saying is either outright untrue or an illogical opinion. 

Even if the damage bonuses were completely removed, infiltrators are the ONLY class with the capability to turn invisible. Which makes them the best at doing what the class was meant for: infiltrating. It makes them the best candidate for doing hack objectives and the best candidate for reviving downed teammates.

They'd still be one of the most useful classes in the game. Therefore, your rant is meaningless. Sorry.

Um, and what exactly is the point of turning invisible, besides capping the 4 module objectives and reviving team mates? That's only about 20% of what needs to be done in a round. TC is not really all that useful in the hack circle. Taking away damage buffs takes away some of the Infiltrators lethality. So, what are Infiltrators supposed to do for the other 80% of the game? Watch their Widow NOT take out a Cannibal in one shot? Yes, I know getting headshots is the solution. But I think asking me to pull off 50 headshots in one match is a bit much. I can usually get about 20. I know score doesn't matter, it's just annoying to hit an opponent with a sniper rifle and see only two bars of health dissapear.

Is this a serious question?

Did you just ignore the rest of my post?

The ability to cloak and prevent enemies from seeing you is extremely powerful, even if it doesn't work 100% of the time.  Even if it works just some of the time, no other class gets anything like this ability. 

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Feauce wrote...

Curzyfish wrote...

"One time" since firing off a power, and emptying 3 rounds from a sniper (yes you can do this with the krysae as well) is "one time." Not to mention "one time" every 3 seconds.  I'm not saying it needs to get thrown to the floor, stomped on, then dragged through a grimey alley or two, but it currently is the most powerful ability in the game.

Becoming visible right away is also your choice, and as for cloak bugging out, that's pretty rare unless you are using charge up weapons, where it can become uncommon rather than rare.

"One-time" meaning you get the bonus, then you lose it and have to use the ability again, as opposed to fire-and-forget powers like Blade Armor and Hunter Mode that give you constant bonuses. The Cloak bugging out isn't rare; apparently if you're the only person left in a wave, there's a pretty good chance that the invisibility portion won't work at all. I've noticed the salarian's Decoy not working properly at random times as well.

This is all also ignoring the fact that with Fitness and the aforementioned Blade Armor, a batarian Sentinel can achieve a 135% damage bonus on melee attacks (210% after a heavy melee kill), along with a Submission Net that can stop enemies from attacking and hold them for his long heavy melee wind-up, as well as return 75-150% of melee damage dealt to him... How exactly is Tactical Cloak broken again?

You do know that meleeing requires you to get right up next to an enemy?  You can't melee from the other side of the map while invisible.

[InfamousResult]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I was trying to point out that every class has it's stengths.

I know. His point was that Infiltrators should be able to be medics and cap points, AND do lots of damage, because "every other class can do it, and everybody likes to kill things". That's what he said.

Then I made a sarcastic jab by saying "Oh yeah, and we should all be invisible because everybody likes to not get shot".

Then you chimed in and helped me prove my point.

So.. Thanks.

Modifié par InfamousResult, 13 juin 2012 - 06:55 .

[XFactor777]

Ok how bout we just make TC rank 6 a headshot bonus instead of a general bonus then any infiltrators getting rediculous damage would deserve it cause a headshot at least requires some skill and since bosses dont have heads apparently they cant just 2shot everything

[CaptainAchilles]

Mozts wrote...

You can't preach in public Hanar, should I ask Shepard again?

LOL

[GGW KillerTiger]

They nerfed tactical cloak before but the problem is they nerfed the wrong part. Instead of nerfing the bonus damage they nerfed the effectiveness of being cloaked. BioWare will forever be BioFail.

[Schneidend]

XFactor777 wrote...

Ok how bout we just make TC rank 6 a headshot bonus instead of a general bonus then any infiltrators getting rediculous damage would deserve it cause a headshot at least requires some skill and since bosses dont have heads apparently they cant just 2shot everything

This seems reasonable. The Sniper Rifle bonus seems to be the crux of the issue, being multiplicative. Still, the fact that TC has a better potential damage bonus that applies to all damage instead of just weapons versus Adrenaline Rush being a lower bonus and limited to weapons boggles the mind.

[GGW KillerTiger]

Schneidend wrote...

XFactor777 wrote...

Ok how bout we just make TC rank 6 a headshot bonus instead of a general bonus then any infiltrators getting rediculous damage would deserve it cause a headshot at least requires some skill and since bosses dont have heads apparently they cant just 2shot everything

This seems reasonable. The Sniper Rifle bonus seems to be the crux of the issue, being multiplicative. Still, the fact that TC has a better potential damage bonus that applies to all damage instead of just weapons versus Adrenaline Rush being a lower bonus and limited to weapons boggles the mind.

So make rank 6 of tactical cloak pointless seeing as how the only enemies it would be useful on are the boss class enemies that "don't" have heads anyways ..... Yea >.>

[Feauce]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Feauce wrote...

Curzyfish wrote...

"One time" since firing off a power, and emptying 3 rounds from a sniper (yes you can do this with the krysae as well) is "one time." Not to mention "one time" every 3 seconds.  I'm not saying it needs to get thrown to the floor, stomped on, then dragged through a grimey alley or two, but it currently is the most powerful ability in the game.

Becoming visible right away is also your choice, and as for cloak bugging out, that's pretty rare unless you are using charge up weapons, where it can become uncommon rather than rare.

"One-time" meaning you get the bonus, then you lose it and have to use the ability again, as opposed to fire-and-forget powers like Blade Armor and Hunter Mode that give you constant bonuses. The Cloak bugging out isn't rare; apparently if you're the only person left in a wave, there's a pretty good chance that the invisibility portion won't work at all. I've noticed the salarian's Decoy not working properly at random times as well.

This is all also ignoring the fact that with Fitness and the aforementioned Blade Armor, a batarian Sentinel can achieve a 135% damage bonus on melee attacks (210% after a heavy melee kill), along with a Submission Net that can stop enemies from attacking and hold them for his long heavy melee wind-up, as well as return 75-150% of melee damage dealt to him... How exactly is Tactical Cloak broken again?

You do know that meleeing requires you to get right up next to an enemy?  You can't melee from the other side of the map while invisible.

You mean those blue orbs I see flying around aren't people's long-range spirit-punches? </sarcasm> People seem really hung up on the damage bonus from the Cloak, assuming it's way too high; this is my point that you so widely missed. Another class (Batarian Sentinel) can get an equivalent, constant-use damage bonus, damage protection, damage reflection, and the ability to use it against single targets without getting shot, same as a working Cloak. This same class also has knockback that goes through walls and other barriers, no matter how thick, and just got a range increase to boot (Shockwave). People are looking at a single ability and missing the larger picture of what the entire class can do.

[Oz not Ozzy]

Before I start I'd just like to state, for the record, that my favourite character is the Salarian Infiltrator. But despite any potential nerf to Tactical Cloak affecting my preferred play style, I have to agree that this...

Schneidend wrote...

Personally, I think it should just follow standard cooldown/weight mechanics.

...would go a long way to balancing Tactical Cloak. You want to get a big damage bonus with that Widow, Claymore or other heavy weapon... that's cool.... but you'll have to wait for your full recharge time before you can use the cloak again just like any other power.... Seems pretty fair to me!

Modifié par Oz not Ozzy, 13 juin 2012 - 07:03 .

[Ashen One]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

XFactor777 wrote...

Ok how bout we just make TC rank 6 a headshot bonus instead of a general bonus then any infiltrators getting rediculous damage would deserve it cause a headshot at least requires some skill and since bosses dont have heads apparently they cant just 2shot everything

This seems reasonable. The Sniper Rifle bonus seems to be the crux of the issue, being multiplicative. Still, the fact that TC has a better potential damage bonus that applies to all damage instead of just weapons versus Adrenaline Rush being a lower bonus and limited to weapons boggles the mind.

So make rank 6 of tactical cloak pointless seeing as how the only enemies it would be useful on are the boss class enemies that "don't" have heads anyways ..... Yea >.>

For once, I actually agree with you.

[CaptainAchilles]

InfamousResult wrote...

"Balance TC" =/= "Ruin TC"

Sorry if you believe that having ridiculous damage buffs AND cloaking are absolutely necessary to the Infiltrator and that ANY reduction to damage or cooldown would absolutely ruin the class, and the game, for you. That is truly a shame.

ditto. I am cool with someone going invisible....that by itself is a huge benefit.....like dropping aggro....like capping objectives....like rezzing downed teammates......HUGE benefit alone. There is no need to add a damage bonus to that. The soldier can't go invis....but I go over 100k in games running one. How? Proxy mine + some OP weapon like the Krysae or Harrier. Simple. There is an Infiltrator that has a proxy mine.....try it. You don't need a massive damage boost from going invis to hit the 100k mark. Bioware ought to bring the headshot damage back though, because that is why snipers are snipers....headshots.....if they wanted body shots all day, they would be a soldier.

[Feauce]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

the only enemies [headshot damage] would be useful on are the boss class enemies that "don't" have heads anyways ..... Yea >.>

This is why we can't have nice things. Because they patch them out.

[XFactor777]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

XFactor777 wrote...

Ok how bout we just make TC rank 6 a headshot bonus instead of a general bonus then any infiltrators getting rediculous damage would deserve it cause a headshot at least requires some skill and since bosses dont have heads apparently they cant just 2shot everything

This seems reasonable. The Sniper Rifle bonus seems to be the crux of the issue, being multiplicative. Still, the fact that TC has a better potential damage bonus that applies to all damage instead of just weapons versus Adrenaline Rush being a lower bonus and limited to weapons boggles the mind.

So make rank 6 of tactical cloak pointless seeing as how the only enemies it would be useful on are the boss class enemies that "don't" have heads anyways ..... Yea >.>

ok fine make it only apply the damage to bosses then at least im making suggestions instead of just saying no to everything

[Feauce]

CaptainAchilles wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

"Balance TC" =/= "Ruin TC"

Sorry if you believe that having ridiculous damage buffs AND cloaking are absolutely necessary to the Infiltrator and that ANY reduction to damage or cooldown would absolutely ruin the class, and the game, for you. That is truly a shame.

ditto. I am cool with someone going invisible....that by itself is a huge benefit.....like dropping aggro....like capping objectives....like rezzing downed teammates......HUGE benefit alone. There is no need to add a damage bonus to that. The soldier can't go invis....but I go over 100k in games running one. How? Proxy mine + some OP weapon like the Krysae or Harrier. Simple. There is an Infiltrator that has a proxy mine.....try it. You don't need a massive damage boost from going invis to hit the 100k mark. Bioware ought to bring the headshot damage back though, because that is why snipers are snipers....headshots.....if they wanted body shots all day, they would be a soldier.

You guys also understand that in order to have a long enough duration to cap most objectives with our Cloak we have to give up a 50% increase to the damage buff, right? Plus for some objectives, like the retrieval missions, we can't use our Cloaks at all.

[Mojenator12345]

Buff the invisibility (so that it actually works properly), nerf the damage bonus. And restore HM to pre-nerf. Problem solved.

[Immortal Strife]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Mozts wrote...

You can't preach in public Hanar, should I ask Shepard again?

+1

Just get BW to nerf the krysae again...

edit: they should actually nerf the sniper damage bonus to +30% instead of +40% (30% is still big) and buff melee bonus to +70% damage bonus.

Fixed.
The bonus was already 50%, yet cloak already doesn't help at all, since heavy melee forces cloak to end before the damage is done, and standard melee does eagle all.

Reduce sniper damage but increase melee, I'm guessing that you use a melee geth inf. I hate melee players so I veto your suggestion.

[GGW KillerTiger]

XFactor777 wrote...

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

XFactor777 wrote...

Ok how bout we just make TC rank 6 a headshot bonus instead of a general bonus then any infiltrators getting rediculous damage would deserve it cause a headshot at least requires some skill and since bosses dont have heads apparently they cant just 2shot everything

This seems reasonable. The Sniper Rifle bonus seems to be the crux of the issue, being multiplicative. Still, the fact that TC has a better potential damage bonus that applies to all damage instead of just weapons versus Adrenaline Rush being a lower bonus and limited to weapons boggles the mind.

So make rank 6 of tactical cloak pointless seeing as how the only enemies it would be useful on are the boss class enemies that "don't" have heads anyways ..... Yea >.>

ok fine make it only apply the damage to bosses then at least im making suggestions instead of just saying no to everything

-looks at my previouse post before this one- How about they give Tactical Cloak its old utility back and reduce the damage buff slightly so it isn't completely useless?

[InfamousResult]

Feauce wrote...

You guys also understand that in order to have a long enough duration to cap most objectives with our Cloak we have to give up a 50% increase to the damage buff, right? Plus for some objectives, like the retrieval missions, we can't use our Cloaks at all.

"Some objectives, like the retrieval missions." .. You mean, JUST the retrieval missions..? And by "the retrieval missions", you mean "if I'm the person carrying the package"? You can still use your Cloak to go revive your teammate if they're the one retrieving the package but get shot down. If anything, the retrieval mission is a prime example of when the Cloak in Tactical Cloak is most useful.

And please, I played enough of this game to know that even if you spec ENTIRELY for damage and not cloak length, you only lose your cloak just as the objective finishes capping. Even if you START getting shot at as soon as you finish up, you still did something that no other class could do; go through that whole thing without getting shot at.

Again, as long as the Cloak is buffed back to what it used to be in terms of actual cloak and enemies ignoring you, then there's nothing wrong with dropping some of that damage.

[THE NOOBIE NOOB WHO TYPES IN CAPS]

Nerfing TC would be like taking tech armor and giving it 10% DR.
There are two main points to TC. The cloak (for objectives etc...) and the damage boost. IF either one of them is nerfed severely, it would effectively be crippling the entire class.
While some people feel that TC is way too OP, I disagree. This provides versatility for the class (kill or cap), as opposed to making the user pick one.
While a 90% damage boost (not counting snipers) may be a bit much, the most effective solution would be to lengthen the cool down of TC dramatically, as opposed to crippling one of its uses, forcing people to think, not spam the 1 button on their keyboard, followed by left click (modify for consoles)