395 réponses à ce sujet

[zerozen00]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Unless you are saying that without OP abilities and weapons you couldn't complete Gold

Not at all. I just don't see how could TacCloak be OP. Would you kindly make a neat little list of reasons?

/zen

[PluralAces]

The sniping boosts should be nerfed on tactical cloak...it would force infiltrators to be more diverse. It also annoys me that most infiltrators who cloak refuse to get objectives or heal people because they want to snipe.

Tactical Cloak + Sniper = Selfish Player

This makes the match harder for the other three players.

[Lord Chun]

Signed

[ElectroNeonPanda]

BoomDynamite wrote...

BUMP

How about everytime you bump this thread I bump the one asking for TC to be nerfed?

[rubynorman]

Signed

[Poison_Berrie]

zerozen00 wrote...

Not at all. I just don't see how could TacCloak be OP. Would you kindly make a neat little list of reasons?

/zen

I wasn't talking about Tactical Cloak in particular. I just thought his reasoning was invalid. A game doesn't operate on actual realism and any reasoning regarding this topic should be considered from the game.

I don't think TC is necessarily OP, more unbalanced.
- Sniper Rifle bonus is multiplicative on base damage (massively effects additive bonuses)
- Can easily use power and shoot any weapon within the cloak bonus, while mostly being unbothered by encumberance and keep a 3 second CD.
- Offers little incentive to alternative evolutions.  (Note: this is not the only power to do so)
Duration is already sufficiently long enough and doesn't weigh up to 40%! extra damage.
The only truly viable melee build for this is the GI.
Bonus Power can in most cases be ignored while not limiting the power use of a Infiltrator.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 19 juin 2012 - 01:13 .

[zerozen00]

PluralAces wrote...

The sniping boosts should be nerfed on tactical cloak...it would force infiltrators to be more diverse. It also annoys me that most infiltrators who cloak refuse to get objectives or heal people because they want to snipe.

Tactical Cloak + Sniper = Selfish Player

This makes the match harder for the other three players.

This is a problem about players. If you keep thinking like this, next you'll want to nerf hard the vanguards just because some selfish idiot charges in the middle of a spawn and dies every two seconds. Or Tech users, because a few players disrupt biotic explosions with their powers, or biotics, 'cause they shake the screens of snipers, or... Well, you get the point.

It's not the tool. It's how you use it. Most of us use it well. Idiots are everywhere and play every class. Should we nerf them too?

/zen

[GGW KillerTiger]

BoomDynamite wrote...
EDIT: Here are some solutions to get around Tactical Cloak:
- Have a Private Match
- Use the kick button
- Ask them to be a different class

Same thing could have been said for everything else that has been nerfed/buffed so far ......

I'm sick of this favortism shown towords infiltrators ....

[Princess Rolf]

PluralAces wrote...

The sniping boosts should be nerfed on tactical cloak...it would force infiltrators to be more diverse. It also annoys me that most infiltrators who cloak refuse to get objectives or heal people because they want to snipe.

Tactical Cloak + Sniper = Selfish Player

This makes the match harder for the other three players.

So a TC + SR, that ends up with a third of the total exp, makes the match harder for the three others? Wow! Then it isn´t OP afterall then...

And yes! /signed

[zerozen00]

I wasn't talking about Tactical Cloak in particular. I just thought his reasoning was invalid. A game doesn't operate on actual realism and any reasoning regarding this topic should be considered from the game.

On this we can agree.

Sniper Rifle bonus is multiplicative on base damage

Enemies are caught by surprise, so yeah, they suffer immense damage. Makes sense to me.

Can easily use power and shoot any weapon within the cloak bonus, while
mostly being unbothered by encumberance and keep a 3 second CD.

Which is longer than most power cooldowns. And snipers weigh a lot, so it makes sense to me. The bonus damage is because you take the enemy by surprise, so again it makes sense to me.

Offers little incentive to alternative evolutions.

It's a very weapon oriented class, and TacCloak is the power without which Infiltrators would just be a shooting decoy. It's logical Infiltrator builds revolve around TC.

Duration is already sufficiently long enough and doesn't weigh up to 40%! extra damage.

It's barely enough to let you do what you need to do. No more, no less.

The only truly viable melee build for this is the GI.

And this is definitely not a point in favour of Infiltrators.

Bonus Power can in most cases be ignored while not limiting the power use of a Infiltrator.

I can agree with that.

/zen

[PluralAces]

zerozen00 wrote...

PluralAces wrote...

The sniping boosts should be nerfed on tactical cloak...it would force infiltrators to be more diverse. It also annoys me that most infiltrators who cloak refuse to get objectives or heal people because they want to snipe.

Tactical Cloak + Sniper = Selfish Player

This makes the match harder for the other three players.

This is a problem about players. If you keep thinking like this, next you'll want to nerf hard the vanguards just because some selfish idiot charges in the middle of a spawn and dies every two seconds. Or Tech users, because a few players disrupt biotic explosions with their powers, or biotics, 'cause they shake the screens of snipers, or... Well, you get the point.

It's not the tool. It's how you use it. Most of us use it well. Idiots are everywhere and play every class. Should we nerf them too?

/zen

I totally agree, thats why if that gets nerfed, the people who dont know how to use it, would use it in another way, or use a totally different character, meanwhile the people who are good at it would still continue to do it because a nerf wouldnt affect them

[PluralAces]

Princess Rolf wrote...

PluralAces wrote...

The sniping boosts should be nerfed on tactical cloak...it would force infiltrators to be more diverse. It also annoys me that most infiltrators who cloak refuse to get objectives or heal people because they want to snipe.

Tactical Cloak + Sniper = Selfish Player

This makes the match harder for the other three players.

So a TC + SR, that ends up with a third of the total exp, makes the match harder for the three others? Wow! Then it isn´t OP afterall then...

And yes! /signed

It only makes objectives and reviving (getting revived) harder

[78stonewobble]

PluralAces wrote...

The sniping boosts should be nerfed on tactical cloak...it would force infiltrators to be more diverse. It also annoys me that most infiltrators who cloak refuse to get objectives or heal people because they want to snipe.

Tactical Cloak + Sniper = Selfish Player

This makes the match harder for the other three players.

Just out of curiosity here... What did you do to help the sniping infiltrator?

[CmnDwnWrkn]

zerozen00 wrote...

PluralAces wrote...

The sniping boosts should be nerfed on tactical cloak...it would force infiltrators to be more diverse. It also annoys me that most infiltrators who cloak refuse to get objectives or heal people because they want to snipe.

Tactical Cloak + Sniper = Selfish Player

This makes the match harder for the other three players.

This is a problem about players. If you keep thinking like this, next you'll want to nerf hard the vanguards just because some selfish idiot charges in the middle of a spawn and dies every two seconds. Or Tech users, because a few players disrupt biotic explosions with their powers, or biotics, 'cause they shake the screens of snipers, or... Well, you get the point.

It's not the tool. It's how you use it. Most of us use it well. Idiots are everywhere and play every class. Should we nerf them too?

/zen

Selfish idiots tend to gravitate to Infiltrator more than any class.  These are the players who give the class a bad name.  It's unfair, but it does color peoples' perspective on the Infiltrator.  The type of player he's talking about - one who is only trying to get the highest personal score, and doesn't do objectives or revive teammates or do anything team-related - does tend to show up playing Infiltrator more often than any other class.

That said, there are some infiltrators who are wonderful team players and contribute a lot to all the aspects of the game. 

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 19 juin 2012 - 02:41 .

[Kel Riever]

This has got to be the longest running never change your mind arguement started by about two people in this forum.
At this point, you just have to laugh.  I mean, I think Tactical Cloak is fine.  But if they ever change it, my revenge will be remembering all the people who seem to think they have suffered so over the way it has been already.  I mean, LOOK at the time they waste on the forums here, pursuing the holy grail of so-called tactical cloak nerf.  It is nothing short of hilarious.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Kel Riever wrote...

This has got to be the longest running never change your mind arguement started by about two people in this forum.
At this point, you just have to laugh.  I mean, I think Tactical Cloak is fine.  But if they ever change it, my revenge will be remembering all the people who seem to think they have suffered so over the way it has been already.  I mean, LOOK at the time they waste on the forums here, pursuing the holy grail of so-called tactical cloak nerf.  It is nothing short of hilarious.

The TC defenders discuss TC as much as anyone who complains about it, so what makes them any better?

[Atheosis]

Threads like this only further serve to illustrate how overpowered Tactical Cloak is. All the people who are adamantly opposed to even the most mild nerf suggestions are so transparent. They like their overpowered power and don't want to give it up. Period.

[Kel Riever]

Actually the people who think TC is fine DO NOT talk about it as much. There are much fewer people making the case against TC who incessantly post against the grand majority. Those of us who support it, simply state stuff, then move on. You just keep on having the arguement with different people.

Honestly, if you think TC is overpowered, you are entitled to your point of view. But after you post about 20 responses from it, there is nothing new you are saying. So good luck with the repeat posts. For me, if I keep responding, I will turn into exactly what you say.

Actually, I will keep responding out of humor, if there's humor to be had. Because you can never get enough of funny! But all serious arguing with this is over. You got the point and it should be clear to you your opinion isn't universal. Not even close.

[Jernau11]

Nothing wrong w/ TC. When you couple TC with a skilled shooter it's balanced fine.

Problem is still the Krysae. There were few complaints about TC until Rocket Training Wheels came along. Think about it, if someone ran an aimbot with the Krysae it would make 0 difference in their gameplay. Take out the ability to miss and TC becomes OP more than any other class.

[D.Shepard]

zerozen00 wrote...

^ Defend the Tactical Cloak! For the Emperor!

/zen

You clearly identified the origin of my "modified line", well done Zen

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Just when you thought this discussion was out, they pull me back in...

D.Shepard wrote...

It's an old story... I often use a modified version of a line used in a famous Sci-Fi tabletop wargame:
"Suffer not the good weapon (or class depending on circumstances ) to live"
Nerfers don't like realism. Why should we fight Reapers with watergun-like weapons?
They though it's badassly.
Imagine a US Navy Seals unit, and they are clearly badasses, requiring a useless weapon instead of an effective one claiming "badasses do not need good weapons"
You may have an idea of what would happen next...

Bringing in real world realism, really? Because then we can deconstruct the entire game.

I'm sorry but the argument isn't about realism. It's about whether this ability is unbalanced, compared to the other abilities.
The argument that a real world special forces group would use their every advantage is completely irrelevant. This is a game.

A game that simulate special operations in a Sci-Fi setting. How many times did you see a movie and you though it was boring illogical because it made no sense. Well fighting Reapers with waterguns make no sense. Call it good sense if you don't like the word realism.

Beside what parameters did you use to declare TC unbalanced?
You are right. This is a game, so have fun with it and not ruin other players fun. It's easy.

Beside do you know TC works half of the times if you are not hosting? And you even claim it is unbalanced. I saw many examples of "undesired de-cloaking". Leave or reduce TC damage bonus and Infiltrator becomes very unbalanced, namely useless.

Modifié par D.Shepard, 19 juin 2012 - 03:07 .

[78stonewobble]

Atheosis wrote...

Threads like this only further serve to illustrate how overpowered Tactical Cloak is. All the people who are adamantly opposed to even the most mild nerf suggestions are so transparent. They like their overpowered power and don't want to give it up. Period.

Personally I wouldn't mind it only giving as much dmg bonus as eg. adrenaline. Then boost dmg. of sniper rifles so they were "efficient" in the hands of both soldiers and infiltrators.

I like being a sniping infiltrator and I try to revive and go after objectives but at times it feels like trying to do 2 jobs parttime instead of 1 full time.

Alot of the complaints are of HOW some people play the current incarnation of infiltrator when ingame theres atleast as many "ejits" playing other classes.

[Atheosis]

Jernau11 wrote...

Nothing wrong w/ TC. When you couple TC with a skilled shooter it's balanced fine.

Problem is still the Krysae. There were few complaints about TC until Rocket Training Wheels came along. Think about it, if someone ran an aimbot with the Krysae it would make 0 difference in their gameplay. Take out the ability to miss and TC becomes OP more than any other class.

Infiltrators feel like easy mode to me with many other guns aside from the Krysae.

[HowlingSiren]

I must admit, I just don't get all these "nerf!" calls. Be it TC, Krysae or whatever, most of the calls-to-nerf seem to stem from players who can't stand being outscored, or who base their decision on the individual behavior of bad players (such as infiltrators who don't revive/do objectives).

If you think a class or level is too easy to play, there are many ways to make it harder for yourself by switching build or weapons, without imposing changes on other players. If you play with an idiot, don't play with him again. If you can't stand being outscored, get over it, it will happen regardless of nerfs. If someone is most comfortable playing Infiltrator because it usually draws less aggro, why do you care?

Petition signed.

[mr_slowpoker]

/signed

[Jernau11]

Atheosis wrote...

Infiltrators feel like easy mode to me with many other guns aside from the Krysae.

Then your playing with newbs. A good BE class or a properly built Salarian Engineer can outs score them 9/10 times on the right map against the right enemy. I certainly do. Infiltrators should also be the ones doing cap missions, time spent not shooting. Your problem isn't infiltrators it's bad players. No class needs a nerf, a few could use buffs sure. If you were playing on a pc I'd show you. Try playing a SE against geth and bring a tempest with disrupted ammo. You'll see what I mean.

Modifié par Jernau11, 19 juin 2012 - 03:22 .