105 réponses à ce sujet

[DnVill]

adding a new difficulty would be better. Gear upgrade buffs is making gold easier.

[JGDD]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We prefer not to nerf weapons or abilities, but some strategies just become too dominant which hurts replayability. We want to make as many strategies as possible viable on all difficulty levels so the game stays fresh. The vast majority of balance changes have been attempts to bring up weaker strategies so they can compete with the stronger ones.

What are the variables you look at when determining changes? Is it solely numbers gleaned from feedback or do you also take into account player(s) opinions from the forums? Even more? This is one of the things I've been curious about since the changes started to be posted here.

[Finnegone]

DSxCallOfBooty- wrote...

BoomDynamite wrote...

My Reegar X is no different to me. It's just 25% slower cooldowns.

Reegar wasn't really hit that hard.  Perhaps not as good on a caster class, but your Infiltrators and Soldiers won't mind at all.  Still lighter than a GPS or Graal.

Krysae nerf, on the other hand, might've killed the weapon.  It doesn't seem like the nerf was that significant (I haven't used the Krysae since the nerf) but it might be enough to keep people from using it, based on the fact that it got a nerf.

The Krysae didn't need a nerf; it needed a much more fundamental change to balance it against other weapons. As it stands, a 10% reduction in weapon damage simply means that the Krysae has the distinction of still being the most powerful weapon in the game

[Eric Fagnan]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We prefer not to nerf weapons or abilities, but some strategies just become too dominant which hurts replayability. We want to make as many strategies as possible viable on all difficulty levels so the game stays fresh. The vast majority of balance changes have been attempts to bring up weaker strategies so they can compete with the stronger ones.

What are the variables you look at when determining changes? Is it solely numbers gleaned from feedback or do you also take into account player(s) opinions from the forums? Even more? This is one of the things I've been curious about since the changes started to be posted here.

We look at a variety of sources including these forums, game stat-tracking, and of course our own internal playtests.

[Adhok42]

Controllerfreak wrote...

"i reley dont wan to say this but i have to now"  ~axman13

"dis gam si so ESEY!" I cracked up at the flash they made out of that. Good times.

Hell be glad you were even lucky enough to make a comparision. I didn't even have the Krysae I before the nerf hit. CURSE YOU DINKLEBERG!

But like Fagnan said, "They do it because people can't compete."

Personally I loved challanging myself on trying to beat the Krysae users to their kill and top their score.

...How DO you pronouce his name anyway?

[Beever_Boy]

But doesn't there have to be a "most powerful weapon in the game" regardless of which weapon that happens to be? Don't get me wrong, I don't generally use it, and playing a game with krysae users can be annoying, but there's always going to be a "best gun". Why shouldn't it be this one?

[SSCAlphaleader]

Yeah I agree lets add Platinum medals and a Platinum Difficulty that way the Nerf This crowd will really have to work to get their Credits since they seem to be beating Gold at a whim and drop of a dime. Honestly @BioWare Eric Fagnan it takes me and some of my best Squadmates to do unknown enemy unknown location Gold and be confident in Ultimate Full Extraction without going into my precious Equipment stock. This coming from a guy who hasnt gotten Krysae or Reeger but have been in matches where guys had it and I was not at all madd when they were destroying the enemies isnt that why we want a spaced out overpowerd gun i mean god why do we want new weapons ? for them to suck? Give us hi powered weapons or give us Death. Sincerely SSC ALPHALEADER.

[Psycho Pisces]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We prefer not to nerf weapons or abilities, but some strategies just become too dominant which hurts replayability. We want to make as many strategies as possible viable on all difficulty levels so the game stays fresh. The vast majority of balance changes have been attempts to bring up weaker strategies so they can compete with the stronger ones.

What are the variables you look at when determining changes? Is it solely numbers gleaned from feedback or do you also take into account player(s) opinions from the forums? Even more? This is one of the things I've been curious about since the changes started to be posted here.

We look at a variety of sources including these forums, game stat-tracking, and of course our own internal playtests.

Wait, a balance team that actually PLAYS the game?!?  You lie!  er.. I mean. I'm glad to hear it.  

I'm just happy that you took the time to come here and talk a little more about how you guys make the determinations on adjustments.  I look at League of Legends (Riot) an some of their Nerfs.. then I look at the outrage here and makes me laugh an feel a bit better.

Nice to see a mod taking part in the community in a positive note.   Thanks for the hard work.

[Psycho Pisces]

Beever_Boy wrote...

But doesn't there have to be a "most powerful weapon in the game" regardless of which weapon that happens to be? Don't get me wrong, I don't generally use it, and playing a game with krysae users can be annoying, but there's always going to be a "best gun". Why shouldn't it be this one?

One gun is always going to surge to the forefront regardless of balance changes as new strategies become prevalent.    Krysae is just the latest fad, I play w/ it on bronze only... Just becuase I can make things explode in gory goodness.  

Anything more serious, and i'm using a heavier sniper. 

[drmoose00]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We prefer not to nerf weapons or abilities, but some strategies just become too dominant which hurts replayability. We want to make as many strategies as possible viable on all difficulty levels so the game stays fresh. The vast majority of balance changes have been attempts to bring up weaker strategies so they can compete with the stronger ones.

Exactly. What if there was a Krogan Adept, who had 1600 sheilds health, a warp that would wear 50% of a Pyro's shields in 3 sec, a throw that would kill 4 cerberus tropers in one throw, and a combo that would wipe an Atlas or Banshee in two combos, with a splash damge that would wipe anything non-boss out within a 10m radius. And of course he is a krogan, so he can sport a black widow with a 150% cooldown. Everyone would play it and it would be no fun

wait...I want that character.....

Modifié par lemon00, 14 juin 2012 - 03:20 .

[Lucius Aelius]

Nice to see a moderator response to all this back and forth we've had about balance, also nice to hear they take the forums into account (any word on doing something about that ugly Cobra?), either way it's nice to see they didn't hit the new weapons too hard (although that Krysae was, and even still is, pretty ridiculous).

Hopefully people can take Bioware's hint and try to discuss things as logically as possible without so much flame-baiting and opinionated interpersonal confrontation, which makes it a lot harder for them to find the sensible tidbits of input that are popping up every now an then.

[Father_Jerusalem]

My problem is that though I have a Krysae, I didn't really enjoy using it on my Infiltrators - I just didn't feel very... Infiltratory... while doing so. I did, however, play with it a few times on my Vorcha Sentinel and I thought it was fun. Not supremely OP, but fun.

The problem, to me, is that the Krysae + Infiltrator combo was too powerful, and they adjusted the wrong part of that equation, making the Krysae worse for everyone in their attempts to make it worse for Infiltrators.

Do I think, frankly, that either part needed a nerf? I do not. But if you're going to nerf something, nerf what needs to be nerfed. not the thing that will affect other classes more. It's the same with the Hunter Mode nerf, frankly.

[drmoose00]

etm125 wrote...

The krysae itself didnt need a nerf that bad. It was the Inf + krysae that needed a nerf.

ya I am so tired of games with 2-3 infilthys with the Krysae...

[Lukeman1884]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

My problem is that though I have a Krysae, I didn't really enjoy using it on my Infiltrators - I just didn't feel very... Infiltratory... while doing so. I did, however, play with it a few times on my Vorcha Sentinel and I thought it was fun. Not supremely OP, but fun.

The problem, to me, is that the Krysae + Infiltrator combo was too powerful, and they adjusted the wrong part of that equation, making the Krysae worse for everyone in their attempts to make it worse for Infiltrators.

Do I think, frankly, that either part needed a nerf? I do not. But if you're going to nerf something, nerf what needs to be nerfed. not the thing that will affect other classes more. It's the same with the Hunter Mode nerf, frankly.

I disagree. No-one was crying "nerf TC!" before the Krysae was introduced. The Krysae gave infiltrators something they shouldn't have had. Crowd control. Infiltrators, and sniper rifles in general, should be about removing priority targets, like phantoms, ravagers, that combat engineer over there setting up the turret, and doing massive  damage to bosses. It used to be that having 3 centurions 5 feet away meant you needed to cloak and gain distance before engaging. Now, it's just cloak at stagger-lock all of them until they're reduced to chunks of flesh. 

In my opinion. the Krysae should NEVER have existed in the first place. Someone suggested making it an AR instead. Great idea. Or better yet, they should've just buffed the falcon. As it stands right now, the Krysae is better in almost every single way, AND is a sniper rifle. IT is the problem here, not the infiltrators. Seriously, remove it, buff the Falcon's damage to the same number, reduce the clip size to 3, and voila, the "Krysae" is now just as effective as it was pre-nerf for everyone else, and no longer unbalanced on infiltrators.

[drmoose00]

Lukeman1884 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

My problem is that though I have a Krysae, I didn't really enjoy using it on my Infiltrators - I just didn't feel very... Infiltratory... while doing so. I did, however, play with it a few times on my Vorcha Sentinel and I thought it was fun. Not supremely OP, but fun.

The problem, to me, is that the Krysae + Infiltrator combo was too powerful, and they adjusted the wrong part of that equation, making the Krysae worse for everyone in their attempts to make it worse for Infiltrators.

Do I think, frankly, that either part needed a nerf? I do not. But if you're going to nerf something, nerf what needs to be nerfed. not the thing that will affect other classes more. It's the same with the Hunter Mode nerf, frankly.

I disagree. No-one was crying "nerf TC!" before the Krysae was introduced. The Krysae gave infiltrators something they shouldn't have had. Crowd control. Infiltrators, and sniper rifles in general, should be about removing priority targets, like phantoms, ravagers, that combat engineer over there setting up the turret, and doing massive  damage to bosses. It used to be that having 3 centurions 5 feet away meant you needed to cloak and gain distance before engaging. Now, it's just cloak at stagger-lock all of them until they're reduced to chunks of flesh. 

In my opinion. the Krysae should NEVER have existed in the first place. Someone suggested making it an AR instead. Great idea. Or better yet, they should've just buffed the falcon. As it stands right now, the Krysae is better in almost every single way, AND is a sniper rifle. IT is the problem here, not the infiltrators. Seriously, remove it, buff the Falcon's damage to the same number, reduce the clip size to 3, and voila, the "Krysae" is now just as effective as it was pre-nerf for everyone else, and no longer unbalanced on infiltrators.

yes it should be an AR....

[Midnight-Tonic]

Sorry but i dont know if you are serious right now or you just didnt find the "right" words to express yourself 

When you say "it was BAD" referring in the next sentence with "4 shots to kill a trooper", may i ask what class did u play in the first place ?? 

A trooper on gold has about 1800 health, 1 shot with the Krysae V deals about 540 damage...
now take in account your class with, lets say, 30% more weapon-damage....additionally i would just guess you wont play gold without a sniper-rifle-amp II or III and with some ammo-equipment....sum it up to about 75% ADDITIONAL weapon damage for 950 damage per shot - that would be 2 hits for 1 single trooper....if u have them clustered, even better, they just get wiped off the map all together because of the AOE-effect of that gun 

When i play with this gun to deal REAL DAMAGE, i enjoy it with the salarian infiltrator 
--> 1. Infiltrator with 130% sniper-rifle damage bonus
--> 2. Cloak-Damage-Bonus along with PROXIMITY-Mine (and on top of that, ADDITIONAL 20% damage to target for 8          seconds from ALL sources)

I dont wanna add up all those numbers, its plain and simple RIDICULOUS...1 cloak with 1 proximity-mine with 1 shot kills 1 Pyro or Hunter or even a whole cluster of them !! 

What i DONT understand is, how can a REALLY GOOD and POWERFUL weapon affect your enjoyment of the game ?? You rather play with "sucky-weapons" with no damage at all ??

Isnt the goal of the squad to survive 11 rounds as easy and fast as it can be ?? DAMNED, its a COOP-Game, and when i can get my 75.000 credits on gold in easy 20 minutes with 4 infiltrators + Krysaes, im HAPPY with that !! 

[MrScottBear]

I still think the best balance would have been 1 shot clips. Takes away it's brokenness in Inf. hands but keeps it a viable gun.

[Rip504]

I am having more fun after the buff. Honestly thanks Bioware!

[Ikilledkillab]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

CaptainTeabag wrote...

They shouldn't have nerfed the Krysae, they should have buffed other weapons. Nerfing just makes the game less fun. Anyone who cries for nerfs in a co-op only game is a masochistic retard.

Oh ho ho ho

Reported. There are some stupid anti nerfing post on this board but yours is just plain rude and offensive. 

What a crybaby you are, running off and reporting ppl for no reason. You are sad and pathetic.

[Psycho Pisces]

Lukeman1884 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

My problem is that though I have a Krysae, I didn't really enjoy using it on my Infiltrators - I just didn't feel very... Infiltratory... while doing so. I did, however, play with it a few times on my Vorcha Sentinel and I thought it was fun. Not supremely OP, but fun.

The problem, to me, is that the Krysae + Infiltrator combo was too powerful, and they adjusted the wrong part of that equation, making the Krysae worse for everyone in their attempts to make it worse for Infiltrators.

Do I think, frankly, that either part needed a nerf? I do not. But if you're going to nerf something, nerf what needs to be nerfed. not the thing that will affect other classes more. It's the same with the Hunter Mode nerf, frankly.

I disagree. No-one was crying "nerf TC!" before the Krysae was introduced. The Krysae gave infiltrators something they shouldn't have had. Crowd control. Infiltrators, and sniper rifles in general, should be about removing priority targets, like phantoms, ravagers, that combat engineer over there setting up the turret, and doing massive  damage to bosses. It used to be that having 3 centurions 5 feet away meant you needed to cloak and gain distance before engaging. Now, it's just cloak at stagger-lock all of them until they're reduced to chunks of flesh. 

In my opinion. the Krysae should NEVER have existed in the first place. Someone suggested making it an AR instead. Great idea. Or better yet, they should've just buffed the falcon. As it stands right now, the Krysae is better in almost every single way, AND is a sniper rifle. IT is the problem here, not the infiltrators. Seriously, remove it, buff the Falcon's damage to the same number, reduce the clip size to 3, and voila, the "Krysae" is now just as effective as it was pre-nerf for everyone else, and no longer unbalanced on infiltrators.

Is it just me, or weren't there lots of threads crying about infiltrators and shotguns when THAT tactic first started out?  

[Lukeman1884]

Midnight-Tonic wrote...

Sorry but i dont know if you are serious right now or you just didnt find the "right" words to express yourself 

When you say "it was BAD" referring in the next sentence with "4 shots to kill a trooper", may i ask what class did u play in the first place ?? 

A trooper on gold has about 1800 health, 1 shot with the Krysae V deals about 540 damage...
now take in account your class with, lets say, 30% more weapon-damage....additionally i would just guess you wont play gold without a sniper-rifle-amp II or III and with some ammo-equipment....sum it up to about 75% ADDITIONAL weapon damage for 950 damage per shot - that would be 2 hits for 1 single trooper....if u have them clustered, even better, they just get wiped off the map all together because of the AOE-effect of that gun 

When i play with this gun to deal REAL DAMAGE, i enjoy it with the salarian infiltrator 
--> 1. Infiltrator with 130% sniper-rifle damage bonus
--> 2. Cloak-Damage-Bonus along with PROXIMITY-Mine (and on top of that, ADDITIONAL 20% damage to target for 8          seconds from ALL sources)

I dont wanna add up all those numbers, its plain and simple RIDICULOUS...1 cloak with 1 proximity-mine with 1 shot kills 1 Pyro or Hunter or even a whole cluster of them !! 

What i DONT understand is, how can a REALLY GOOD and POWERFUL weapon affect your enjoyment of the game ?? You rather play with "sucky-weapons" with no damage at all ??

Isnt the goal of the squad to survive 11 rounds as easy and fast as it can be ?? DAMNED, its a COOP-Game, and when i can get my 75.000 credits on gold in easy 20 minutes with 4 infiltrators + Krysaes, im HAPPY with that !! 

See, some of us play because we enjoy the game, NOT because we want credits. Granted, I DO have all the characters, and most of the weapons at a decent rank, so maybe my opinion differs from someone who's trying to unlock stuff. Now, I enjoy playing a PV because lash and smash are fun to use. I'm decent, and don't usually get carried. However, playing with 3 GIs using rank X krysaes REALLY makes it hard for me to actually do anything, since all it takes is one GI per spawn to effectively lock down the map. See, them using the Krysae takes away MY fun, since I can't really contribute at all unless I also use one, which I don't want to do. I don't usually like using hyperbole, but just imagine for a second that all enemies took just one shot to kill, and you were running around with an Avenger. That'd get quite boring quite quickly. 

[Lukeman1884]

Psycho Pisces wrote...

Lukeman1884 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

My problem is that though I have a Krysae, I didn't really enjoy using it on my Infiltrators - I just didn't feel very... Infiltratory... while doing so. I did, however, play with it a few times on my Vorcha Sentinel and I thought it was fun. Not supremely OP, but fun.

The problem, to me, is that the Krysae + Infiltrator combo was too powerful, and they adjusted the wrong part of that equation, making the Krysae worse for everyone in their attempts to make it worse for Infiltrators.

Do I think, frankly, that either part needed a nerf? I do not. But if you're going to nerf something, nerf what needs to be nerfed. not the thing that will affect other classes more. It's the same with the Hunter Mode nerf, frankly.

I disagree. No-one was crying "nerf TC!" before the Krysae was introduced. The Krysae gave infiltrators something they shouldn't have had. Crowd control. Infiltrators, and sniper rifles in general, should be about removing priority targets, like phantoms, ravagers, that combat engineer over there setting up the turret, and doing massive  damage to bosses. It used to be that having 3 centurions 5 feet away meant you needed to cloak and gain distance before engaging. Now, it's just cloak at stagger-lock all of them until they're reduced to chunks of flesh. 

In my opinion. the Krysae should NEVER have existed in the first place. Someone suggested making it an AR instead. Great idea. Or better yet, they should've just buffed the falcon. As it stands right now, the Krysae is better in almost every single way, AND is a sniper rifle. IT is the problem here, not the infiltrators. Seriously, remove it, buff the Falcon's damage to the same number, reduce the clip size to 3, and voila, the "Krysae" is now just as effective as it was pre-nerf for everyone else, and no longer unbalanced on infiltrators.

Is it just me, or weren't there lots of threads crying about infiltrators and shotguns when THAT tactic first started out?  

Not really. Those threads were moreso going on about the fact that it required no skill to score as high as someone who had to work quite hard playing a skill intensive class. The main issue was that it was too "easy", NOT that is was too overpowered.

[Major Durza]

The Reegar is fine the way it is. I have been loving it, high risk high reward. Some say its an easy phantom shredder, its not. One, they have some kind of MASSIVE damage reduction when they dodge, and if you do not put the full clip in them with Incindiary ammo they are going to stun and slice you up. This is WHILE the other units are shooting you. The Reegar is well-balanced as is, and it should stay. It is RISKY to use it. Not to mention that is sucks against crowds, its only great at close up, one on one confrontations. Anything outside and it fails miserably, many times I have had to tell my teammates while we were bunkering down with my Pheonix Vanguard "Can't do anything, they are out of my range".

I heavily suggest that the Reegar stays as-is, it is risky and balanced, not overpowered.

[BlackoutOmega]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

For that reason I don't agree that nerfing in a co-op game is not necessary.

*begins to break down in tears for sabotage*

[Lukeman1884]

Major Durza wrote...

The Reegar is fine the way it is. I have been loving it, high risk high reward. Some say its an easy phantom shredder, its not. One, they have some kind of MASSIVE damage reduction when they dodge, and if you do not put the full clip in them with Incindiary ammo they are going to stun and slice you up. This is WHILE the other units are shooting you. The Reegar is well-balanced as is, and it should stay. It is RISKY to use it. Not to mention that is sucks against crowds, its only great at close up, one on one confrontations. Anything outside and it fails miserably, many times I have had to tell my teammates while we were bunkering down with my Pheonix Vanguard "Can't do anything, they are out of my range".

I heavily suggest that the Reegar stays as-is, it is risky and balanced, not overpowered.

At least removing the glitch that allows power use while shooting.