56 réponses à ce sujet

[wsandista]

What do you think the PC's background should be like? Should it be well-defined like The Nameless One or undefined like the Hero of Neverwinter. If it is defined should there be varied backgrounds(origins)?

I personally would prefer the PC's background to be fairly undefined.

[Allan Schumacher]

Is The Nameless One the best example for this?

While his past may be predefined, it also has no bearing on how the player wishes to play the game due to the amnesia. There's no inconsistency and TNO can effectively be played as a clean slate.

Does the background mean much if it's irrelevant?

[AndrahilAdrian]

I really liked the origins. They gave you a good backstory, but they also provided more player choice with regards to customizing your character. A really detailed set background makes you feel like your character isn't really "yours", and a vague background makes him feel bland and more like a vehicle than a real character. The origins were the perfect compromise, and I would love to see them return.

[PsychoBlonde]

Should? I don't really have a preference. It's been a staple of the franchise (all 2 parts of it, heh) to have a PC with some kind of backstory. If they decide to stick with this, I'd prefer Origins-style over DA2 style. I didn't like the In Medias Res boom here's your family hug dem style of DA2 much. Part of it may be that I find a lot of the "family and friends" interactions to be incredibly cloying--the Human Noble's and City Elf's and Dalish Elf's families in Origins nearly made me ill. The only one I actually liked was the Dwarf Noble, believe it or not.

That's not saying that I want all family members to be like Bhelen, I just liked the TONE of the interactions in the Dwarf Noble origin much better than any of the others.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if they kind of took a middle road between "you stepped, fully armed and armored, from Zeus's head" and "here's a codex page about your family history". I'm fine with In Medias Res if it's done well.

The method I really prefer if possible is very much like the one they (tried to) use in KoTOR 2, where you make choices in dialog when people ask about your past and those define what backstory your character has. Even if there's a limited list to pick from, I find I like this the best, although being me I'd like to have quite a number of times when you get to have dialog like this, instead of, like, 3.

[wsandista]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Is The Nameless One the best example for this?

While his past may be predefined, it also has no bearing on how the player wishes to play the game due to the amnesia. There's no inconsistency and TNO can effectively be played as a clean slate.

I believe so. Like you said his past is what is predefined, and the characters past is what I was referring to as background. Revan is a better example, since Revan's gender is variable(if we are talking about a player-generated PC).

Does the background mean much if it's irrelevant?

That depends on the player. Some believe it only matters if the world responds to it, while others do not.

Modifié par wsandista, 14 juin 2012 - 06:15 .

[nightcobra]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Is The Nameless One the best example for this?

While his past may be predefined, it also has no bearing on how the player wishes to play the game due to the amnesia. There's no inconsistency and TNO can effectively be played as a clean slate.

Does the background mean much if it's irrelevant?

it may be irrelevant on that front but i think the purpose of this would be more to mold the player's preconceptions and values that might have an influence when picking a choice in the game, for example, if the player were to pick between ferelden or orlais as his/her nationality, this could influence decisions in the player's mind that would speak to their own sense of patriotism or ,lack there of.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 14 juin 2012 - 07:56 .

[PsychoBlonde]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Does the background mean much if it's irrelevant?

Yes and no.  After all, given the ultimate lack of callbacks to the Origins, background in Origins was pretty irrelevant for 95% of the game.  Heck, Hawke's background was fairly irrelevant, too, it just jammed you into a couple of required interactions here and there.  I'd say that TNO's backstory was far more relevant to the STORY of Planescape, and far less on how you played, whereas Hawke's backstory was nearly irrelevant to the story of DA2, but had more of an effect on some of your options.  (And, in case you're confused, by "some of your options" I mean, you pretty much had no choice but to, say, live in Gamlen's house for the first 1/3 of the game).

I'd say for the background to actually be relevant, the PC has to reference it and make use of it somehow, instead of it being either a selection made, played through, and ignored thereafter, or a bunch of stuff just dumped on the PC all willy-nilly.

It's a different issue from whether or not the PC gets a pre-defined backstory, gets to pick from a list, or it's never mentioned as if the PC just fell out of the sky.  PERSONALLY, I find I like to pick and mix.  Pre-defined can be great, mind you, it worked great in Baldur's Gate and Planescape and KoTOR and KoTOR 2.  However, I find that the falling-out-of-the-sky conceit gets REALLY OLD REALLY FAST for me.

[Uccio]

Origins, DAO style.

[AkiKishi]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Does the background mean much if it's irrelevant?

Only if it's the sort of game that contradicts the background. Amnesia tends to be a give away that this is going to the case.
And if you have amnesia you don't really have a background to call on anyway.

[AkiKishi]

wsandista wrote...

That depends on the player. Some believe it only matters if the world responds to it, while others do not.

Well I take the third option. It bothers me when the game contradicts it. For example in BG if you wrote your story before getting the game, you then had to rewrite it to allow for CandleKeep. It's not so bad if it only happens at the begining of the game like that, but when it's carried through the game it becomes a wasted excercise.

As the games have become more defined I've moved towards the idea that pre-generated character are simply the best way to go. You get more from them and give up very little that is real in return.Discovering things about the character becomes an important part of the story.

[Wulfram]

I liked Mass Effect's level of background definition. Defining the PC's current occupation and allegiance, and having the player choose a couple of hooks for their past worked quite well, and it avoided filling in too much in the way of details about childhood and family.

[Direwolf0294]

My favourite thing about Dragon Age was definitely the Origins in DA:O so I hope they go back to that in DA3.

[MichaelStuart]

I would like the option of choosing a defined or a undefined back story.
But if I could only have one, I would choose undefined. Mainly because it would allow me to play as a wandering sell sword.

I would rather back story be done like mass effect, were you gave Shepard a history, but other than a few small quests and some dialog, it as no real effect on gameplay. (I won't mind if your back story gave you extra skills)

[Xewaka]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Is The Nameless One the best example for this?
While his past may be predefined, it also has no bearing on how the player wishes to play the game due to the amnesia. There's no inconsistency and TNO can effectively be played as a clean slate.
Does the background mean much if it's irrelevant?

Since in this particular case, the background *is* the reason of the plot (finding out who the Nameless One was) I'd say it's not precisely irrelevant, despite the fact the game allows you to insert any personality you like in the main character. It is not dissimilar to KotOR in that regard: up until the big revelation, the character can be whoever the player wants it to be; and the revelation of who he/she was then does not change who she/he is now.
For a non-amnesia example, the fact that the Spirit Monk is who he/she is revealed to be need not change his/her overall attitude, unless the player finds this revelation fitting for a trauma-induced departure of character.

The relevancy of the background need not be inextricably intertwined to the player agency over the character's attitude.

Modifié par Xewaka, 14 juin 2012 - 11:57 .

[Andraste_Reborn]

I would like to see origins back, but I think six was too many. I mean, I enjoyed them, but a couple of them seemed underwritten - I'm looking at you, Dalish elf - and almost nobody played my favourite ones anyway. (Only 5% of players ever picked dwarves, according to the reporting software.)

Therefore, my preference would be for origins based on class rather than race. That would give us three - and fewer origins would hopefully mean more depth and interactivity with them in the rest of the game.

[loaklt1]

Well, if the PC is voiced again (which is quite confirmed), then he/she should have a background story. The voiced PC offers the possibility to include the character better into the game, as he/she isn't only a projection screen for the player's wishes. Bioware should definitly use that possibility. 

[coles4971]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Should? I don't really have a preference. It's been a staple of the franchise (all 2 parts of it, heh) to have a PC with some kind of backstory. If they decide to stick with this, I'd prefer Origins-style over DA2 style. I didn't like the In Medias Res boom here's your family hug dem style of DA2 much. Part of it may be that I find a lot of the "family and friends" interactions to be incredibly cloying--the Human Noble's and City Elf's and Dalish Elf's families in Origins nearly made me ill. The only one I actually liked was the Dwarf Noble, believe it or not.

why didnt you just tell them all to gtfo then? I mean you don't have to be polite to your family (or at least I don't think you do ... I''m too much of a goody two-shoes so I always am, then again I like them so it wasn't a problem for me )

[LolaLei]

It would be kinda cool to have a background story based on class if we were able to be given, say, 3 origin prologues to play (dependant on which class you pick warrior/rogue/mage) in which you get to experience a little of your new protagonists life before sh!t hits the fan.

[Knight of Dane]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Does the background mean much if it's irrelevant?

You can't move on without knowing from where you came.

[AkiKishi]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Does the background mean much if it's irrelevant?

You can't move on without knowing from where you came.

How does that work with an amnesiac character?

[wsandista]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Does the background mean much if it's irrelevant?

You can't move on without knowing from where you came.

How does that work with an amnesiac character?

I would also like to know that.

BobSmith101 wrote...

Well I take the third option. It bothers me when the game contradicts it. For example in BG if you wrote your story before getting the game, you then had to rewrite it to allow for CandleKeep. It's not so bad if it only happens at the begining of the game like that, but when it's carried through the game it becomes a wasted excercise.

As the games have become more defined I've moved towards the idea that pre-generated character are simply the best way to go. You get more from them and give up very little that is real in return.Discovering things about the character becomes an important part of the story.

I see your point, however I believe that a move to more undefined, or at least ambiguous, backgrounds for the PC would be preferable. However, I don't think they should try to find a middle ground between player-generated PC(whether with undefined or ambiguous background)and pre-generated PC because there doesn't seem to be a middle ground.

Modifié par wsandista, 15 juin 2012 - 01:21 .

[iheartbob]

I really enjoyed the 6 Origins in DA:O and it would be nice if it returned in some form or another. I don't know how plausable it would be to do it in the scope of the first game but perhaps we could start with just the three tropes (or four, if a Qunari PC were to become an option). Not sure how it would be implimented as the origins in DA:O kind of helped to also establish the lore of Thedas, and it would certainly be more time and resource consuming.

I think more than origin prologues I'd rather have the option of playing different races and seeing a greater variety of interactions with NPCs based on your race/class. Having just finished another playthrough as an eleven mage today I realized the references to her being an elf or a mage were still limited. I would occasionally get a "oh, you're an elf ..." but I didn't see the blatant racism towards an elf that I was expecting. I got a healthy dose of the mage racism from the Templars (Cullen, specifically, during the Circle Tower quest) which I thought was handled very well and believable. That was the most fun for me, seeing how my "origin" continued to incite some kind of response from the world around me.

I'd definitely like more of that in DA:III and it certainly contributes to the game's replayability.

[Vormaerin]

iheartbob wrote...

I think more than origin prologues I'd rather have the option of playing different races and seeing a greater variety of interactions with NPCs based on your race/class. Having just finished another playthrough as an eleven mage today I realized the references to her being an elf or a mage were still limited. I would occasionally get a "oh, you're an elf ..." but I didn't see the blatant racism towards an elf that I was expecting. I got a healthy dose of the mage racism from the Templars (Cullen, specifically, during the Circle Tower quest) which I thought was handled very well and believable. That was the most fun for me, seeing how my "origin" continued to incite some kind of response from the world around me.
 

Yeah.  I don't think there is anyone who is arguing that origins would be *bad*.   Just that doing them right is unfeasible.   I would rather Have just the cousland origin (male/female) and have it regularly matter than have all six and be constantly trumped by the Warden glazing.   For me, those extra 2-3 hours of content are better spent on adding to the story.   Changing origins doesn't change enough to be a source of replayability, imho.

[LolaLei]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Does the background mean much if it's irrelevant?

You can't move on without knowing from where you came.

How does that work with an amnesiac character?

I dunno, ask Fenris!